Mystery Mafia - Game Over

[Paperblade]

Yes Shinori we know the mafia have a redirect you don't need to tell us twice

[MancerNecro]

Wait. So apparently, both Shinori and Blitz had been targeted by redirection actions. This is evidenced by Scorri and Bluedoom's actions giving possibly wrong flips and information.

Also, Shinori's scan (by Bluedoom) does not reveal Blitz's role. This means that the redirection was likely not done by a Driver. We can rule out a Bus Driver being responsible for what had happened last Night.

[Paperblade]

I am willing to bet money that there is a scum hijacker and Shinori is just going to parrot whatever they redirect, and that he's targeting scorri since it also fucks over the cop.

[MancerNecro]

Hijacker? What does that role do?

[Paperblade]

it lets you change the targets of people's night action

[MancerNecro]

ooh...

But that kind of does not explain how two actions (Bluedoom and Scorri's) were redirected. Unless there is more than one redirection role.

[Paperblade]

because Marth probably wasn't redirected and Shinori is scum

Shinori should definitely track me btw

[Bluedoom]

So Paper is there a fair chance mafia purposely hijacked scorri by figuring out their role crumbs? Because I remember BBM telling something about Scorri crumbing cop.

[MancerNecro]

Well, I don't remember Scorri ever crumbing cop on Night 0. If anything, I think she only crumbed on Day 1, which I didn't see as well.

I'm sorry, I'm just really bad at picking up crumbs at the moment.

[Bluedoom]

Mancer you have a good point. She didn't crumb cop on N0. Also during D1 I checked- didn't look to me like she was crumbing cop real hard.

I'm also inclined to believe Scorri because she was crumbing Cop from her posts really hard. And I thought Blitz was scummy anyways, so. Also Blitz's defence doesn't make much sense because why on earth would scum do that?

Ok this sentence is just ringing my alarm bells. I ISO'd Scorri and I don't see many posts crumbing cop- in fact IMO the only post ever crumbing that she had a lot of info was the one just before she claimed alignment cop.

So BBM, mind pointing out some of her posts which told you she crumbed cop? Because I find you assuming she crumbed cop hard suspicious.

Cannot say much about reads as of now because there was hardly any good interaction D1. It was mainly everyone vs Blitz. Probably flips later on will help, although I must say I find Elieson's last post before the Blitz lynch scummy- its basically a bunch of quotes which shows everyone that he is finding Blitz obvious scum. To me this feels like he's trying to make his case look legit.

[j00]

I picked Scorri because I didn't know who else to target on N0 and it was pretty much a blind

Also manix told me that it was an inconsistency with results and that he won't tell me if im tracking the right person.

I kinda got confused as to what he said. My brain at 3 am.

So it says "your target" or something similar

Mine says their names.

So you got "scorri" as your target but you don't know if you actually tracked her? Do you know if the inconsistency is regarding your target or your target's target?

[MancerNecro]

I'm guessing it's with his target, since he says his target did visit Blitz. So it might be Scorri visiting a tailored Blitz, or whoever Shinori targeted had visited Blitz while Scorri herself was redirected away from Blitz.

Speculations here so ignore if you're the type that dislikes speculation.

[Bluedoom]

Mancer, if the 'whoever' is not Scorri then Shinori is basically lying to us. Because that would require Shinori to be redirected, in which case Scorri lied to us.

Anyway we're not looking at a tailor but a possible framer(tailor I believe also affects the role PM?) Framer is possible in this setup and they probably would've framed Blitz after his N0 antics. Hmm...

Also this is the post of Elieson I was referring to as giving me scum-vibes:

Gone for a few hours and this is what I miss? I'm trying reeeeally hard not to see this all as scum fishing, mainly because of the Unannounced Redirect Rule. Since there is nighttalk, there's no point for him to quicklynch himself and deprive town of discussion, as it wouldn't do anything. I'm gonna go with my gut and the facts that are pretty damn hard to ignore##Unvote (Mancer)##Vote Blitz

Kinda feels like over-reacting, especially after the flip.

[j00]

so

scorri claimed she got a guilty result on Blitz, Marth got a Rolecop result on Shinori and Shinori claims Tracker.

Even if we assume scorri got redirected, there are either more redirectors or Marth/Shinori are lying. Claiming tracker who confirms scorri checking Blitz is in any case very safe since it's only a confirmation, and thus not very convincing.

And if scorri checked Blitz and got redirected, why did Shinori still get Blitz as a target? Did Manix mess this one up somehow or what

And if we assume scorri is lying Shinori must be lying too.

Don't see any reason for Marth to lie and claim Shinori to be informant, what do an informant do anyway

[BBM]

Scorri crumbed Cop on D1, not on N0. Basically just by how hard she was pushing for the Blitz lynch with almost no reasoning behind it didn't seem like something Scumri would do, and that post where she said "Can we please just lynch Blitz?" hinted strongly with its tone that she had some out-of-thread confirmation that Blitz was scum, but didn't want to reveal it. It sounded kind of desperate in that way.

@j00- Informant, when it's a role and not a rolename, allows someone to target a person and receive any investigation results they get that night. So you'd target the Cop, and receive the Alignment of whomever they targeted. Except that'd be pretty useless for mafia, so they normally get one if town has a Rolecop instead of an Alliance Checker.

Paperblade is also sending really mixed signals- first he said that he'd prefer Marth get shot over Shinori, because if Shinori was town, his role would be more useful. That implies that he doesn't think one of them to be more likely to be scum than the other, because it wouldn't matter how good Shinori's claimed role is if it's not actually his role. And now his response to Shinori asking the Vig to leave him alive kinda implied that he was pretty sure Shinori was scum. I'm not sure what to make of this.

[j00]

I mainly meant that if Marth wanted to make Shinori look scummy, informant wouldn't be the best claim since it's a rather useless mafia role but yeah

[Paperblade]

It's entirely possible they got lucky

[Prims]

I'm not sure what to make of this.

meta scumtell

[Psych]

I think Shinori's claim for scorri was kind of an easy cop out considering she already outted her target.

If we're just concerned with him, have him out tomorrow really early.

I don't really know what's going on right now so what are we talking about

[charlie_]

Ok, so I feel dreadful. Sorry for not being around today, but I feel horrible right now so I'm

i'm reading mancer as TOWN OVERTHINKING IT as usual, like he hasn't rolled scum yet. he just gives off that feeling.

mancer wagon...

- psych: don't find his vote scummy, at least seems to believe himself based on request for paper's elaboration, something nobody else cared about. neutral leaning town unless somebody makes me reconsider by busting out a rly good case on him. though #180 and #184 are just Legitimate Town man

- bananas: thoughts on him haven't changed. most snipey of the bunch, also "OMGUS" discreditation on mancer is eeegh

- rapier: neutral read, can't blame him too much for mancer read but i want to know why he thinks mancer's reaction to bluedoom had scum intent

- elie: actually the second most honest of the wagon, i don't see elie as the type to make blatant wagon hops as scum & mancer's overdefensiveness could be read as scummy. he doesn't look ~good~ but i don't think he's maf?

I discount meta that says they look scummy when they're town. Unless they get proven scum, then we'll never lynch them when they are scum. Why isn't Psych's vote scummy if mine is? Rapier's vote is essentially similar to mine as well. Eli jumped on the wagon and you're giving him a free pass, based off of meta. The original suspicions of Blitz were based off of meta, and that worked out horribly. This feels like you're just finding an excuse to not vote for the others over me.

Anyway, I reread and saw that Psych really just harped on and sheeped SB's arguments (past the one about distancing). After that, he started grasping a lot on voting me.

SB sheeped Psych's distancing argument, then went to vote me (and join the wagon). He then went on to say I used OMGUS when I defended myself and ask questions.

So FoS on SB and Psych as scum buddies after Blitz's flip.

You did OMGUS, and I do you consider 1 person a wagon?

Mancer still looks bad, Prims too and I'm uncomfortable with Paper's constant one liners, although I'm not sure how scummy he is besides that. Gonna reread when I don't feel horrible so hopefully I get something more, but right now I'm drawing a blank.

[MancerNecro]

Ok, so I feel dreadful. Sorry for not being around today, but I feel horrible right now so I'm

I discount meta that says they look scummy when they're town. Unless they get proven scum, then we'll never lynch them when they are scum. Why isn't Psych's vote scummy if mine is? Rapier's vote is essentially similar to mine as well. Eli jumped on the wagon and you're giving him a free pass, based off of meta. The original suspicions of Blitz were based off of meta, and that worked out horribly. This feels like you're just finding an excuse to not vote for the others over me.

You did OMGUS, and I do you consider 1 person a wagon?

Mancer still looks bad, Prims too and I'm uncomfortable with Paper's constant one liners, although I'm not sure how scummy he is besides that. Gonna reread when I don't feel horrible so hopefully I get something more, but right now I'm drawing a blank.

How do I do OMGUS when the post where I attacked Elieson and Rapier happened before they had attacked me?

[MancerNecro]

I think that scum probably has lots of redirection roles to get town to rely slightly less on the cop's results and more on actual scumhunting.

So in this way, we have to make full use of all our Day and Night (like an extended Day phase) to get the maximum amount of discussions going.

[Rapier]

Oh well. I love when a lot of stuff happen while I'm busy.

First off, I understand why Marth thinks Shinori may be scum, but what if he's the Town Rolecop? We'd be missing a good town role by lynching or possibly vigshooting him. Then again, I'm not even sure how we're supposed to deal with him.

Fine. Screw it. I'm the cop and I got a guilty on Blitz last night. There. I was going to try and just convince people to switch, but screw it this is easier.

This means Scorri is scum, doesn't it? She obviously lied about Blitz... Especialy because of this:

Ok. I am in fact guaranteed to be sane. I *could* have been redirected, but unless someone wants to claim that (?) I'm sticking with the lynch. I also think we should leave the hammer to someone that hasn't been around much though.

And Blitz, I'll be perfectly honest. I was mostly trying to push a case on you since I knew I had a scum result on you. So yeah, my reasoning wasn't the best, but eh.

Basically if shinori is town I think his role is more useful than Marth, unless Marth has a bunch more inspect abilities

... Which implies Shinori may have a more dangerous role if he's scum. I think it's too convenient for Blitz to be targetted by a role that makes him look Guilty. Shinori may not have been the only one who targetted Scorri, but he's a suspect, and a good target for a vigshot since we'll be confirming if Marth is scum or not. I really don't like coincidences, so I'm willing to bet Shinori is scum.

- rapier: neutral read, can't blame him too much for mancer read but i want to know why he thinks mancer's reaction to bluedoom had scum intent

That was my first reaction when I saw him calling Marth for 'buddying'.

Rapier looks most scummy.

Many stayed away on N0 while he came towards the end and asked a bunch of questions a la "what do you think about X/ why do you think that/ we could have a cop". And once the Mancer wagon started he jumped on it with the following reasoning:

Weak reasoning when you're rolespecing too.

Yeah, I asked a bunch of questions and voted Mancer for a weak reason because damn it, it was early D1, there's basically nothing concrete to lynch someone for. At that time, you're supposed to get info and reactions and see which one's the best lynch candidate for the day.

Also, I forgot what the hell a Miller does. >:

[Rapier]

First off, I understand why Marth thinks Shinori may be scum, but what if he's the Town Rolecop? We'd be missing a good town role by lynching or possibly vigshooting him. Then again, I'm not even sure how we're supposed to deal with him.

derp, screw this part.

Shinori could be a Scum Rolecop anyway.

[MancerNecro]

So do you think that Shinori is town or scum?

Since you basically said "he could be town" then went "he could be scum".

This seems like you're finding him both scummy and not scummy at the same time.

If he flips town, I believe you can say that "I thought he was town". If he flips scum, you're just going to say "I told you so". It gives you town credit no matter what.

Decide now what you think of Shinori.