Pokemon Adventures R/B/G/Y Mafia

[Helios]

Mancer think about ths for a second. WHY WOULD I BE ROLECOPPED BY SCUM IF I WAS SCUM? I should be easily cleared from your POV lol. Im not home right now so I cant really make a solid post but it shouldnt matter becaus Im cleared by you, I cleared Wren/Iris/SB, Elies pretty much cleared by the silence but I wont count him out I guess. Therefore POE proves Boro and j00. Dont overthink it man this should be very simple. If you really want I guess I can make a case on j00 but if Boron flips scum its an autowin for town.

[Sunwoo]

Okay, first of all, I need to apologize for my outburst yesterday. I have no excuses for it other than I was frustrated and then I was frustrated AND drunk. I also apologize to BBM for not playing to win and ragequitting. But seriously, guys ... the next time I say in-thread during a game that "I have wine" or "I've been drinking earlier," PLEASE do not continue to argue with me. It will NOT end pretty.

Second of all, I'm really tired of being misrepped. Let's go through this one by one, starting with my so-called reluctance to claim.

I'm not going to claim unless everyone wants me to do so or something because I feel that we've outed too many of our roles already.

This is the first post I made that had anything to do with me claiming my role. I had always said that I would claim if there were sufficient pressure on me to claim.

If everyone else agrees that a massclaim is a good idea, then I will claim when I get back. For now, I have to go because I'm holding everyone up.

This was in response to the following:

I agree with j00 that we should probably massclaim. Here's who's claimed at all so far:

<Snip>

There's not a whole lot left to hide from scum. I'm willing to claim if anyone else besides j00 thinks this would be a good idea.

And then I left after making that post. Which was followed by this post from Helios:

I don't mind claiming either.

Says that he "doesn't mind claiming", but never asked me directly to claim. Also, this post could be interpreted as his saying that he himself doesn't mind claiming but isn't speaking for whether he wants anyone else to claim. Which is how I probably interpreted it.

As it stands, I agree a Strawman or JB lynch would be useful regarding JB's watcher claim/result, but I'd hold off lynching until everyone's claimed.

I'd like to fullclaim last since I've partially claimed already and we know nothing about Strawman or Boron.

I didn't interpret this as a demand to claim either, so I felt no need to do so. I didn't feel that people were telling me that it is imperative that I claim and I felt no pressure to so I didn't. Just as I had said.

Speaking of claiming didn't you say you would when you came back? What made you suddenly decide to change your opinion on that?

No. I said that if everyone felt that we should do a massclaim and that I should out my role, then I would. But I would rather not do so and I don't want to give mafia any more info than they already have.

Helios is misunderstanding me here, whether it was intentional or not at this point. So I answered. My thoughts did not change. Saying that I will claim if everyone wants me to do so does not mean that I can't still not be happy with it.

j00, Helios, me, and Paper if he counts are all in favor of a massclaim. How many people do you need to agree to it? You sounded much less reluctant to claim earlier.

Kay's response to my post, and I felt that she was misunderstanding me as well. Again, I have no idea where this "you were reluctant to claim" thing is coming from. I was getting pretty annoyed at being misrepped by both Kay and Helios at this point. So you know what, I claimed. I took it as a hint to claim.

Next, my so-called defense of Straw.

You were defending him whenever I kept saying JB scumbuddies with Strawman. Oddly enough you never mentioned Straw, but you always said that you thought it was dumb that I grouped the two together. By the time JB looked like he was going to be the lynch target though, you said you'd be "ok" with lynching him, which is a pretty safe way to play it off because then you're like "well ehhh he wasn't my first choice to lynch" when he flips town. So yeah it's pretty opportunistic. So yeah it's a misrep since I forgot to add in the opportunistic switch to JB to mislynch a townie. Sorry about that.

Who's misrepping who, Helios? Go back and read my posts. I said that you trying to tie Straw/JB's flip to the other's alignment based solely on JB's watcher claim and N1 result was ridiculous. I don't see how you could have come to this logic. I really don't. So is pointing out bad logic "defending" a person? Or is it only defending if you can twist it and misrep me to make it sound like that?

Also, what does my "never mentioning Straw" have to do with anything? I would have said the exact same thing if it had been anyone else besides JB and Straw in that situation, where you were trying to link them together with faulty logic.

Also, stuff about Wren/Iris/SB that you're trying to make me look bad on.

First of all, I want you to realize that you're saying Wren is town is based solely on your word. There is no evidence that the rest of us can see that should convince us without a doubt that Wren is town. Is there anything else besides your word that should convince us?

Probably because he/she claimed doc and no one counterclaimed after all this time. Why would there even be a scum!doc in this game anyway? You're really just grasping now, but ehh whatever.

I don't think that there is a scum!doc in this game. I don't even know for sure that Wren is the doc. And before you mention the lack of a counterclaim, I would like to remind you that there have been NO counterclaims this game. At all. And we all know that not all of us are being truthful, right? I'm not going to make any assumptions about the setup of this game or why BBM would choose to put certain roles in the game and not others. But the fact that no one has been counterclaimed so far makes the lack of a counterclaim hold less weight. Stop simplifying what I say "grasping" just because you don't agree with me.

Also, can you stop with the flavor and the self-meta already? I don't really know your scum!meta or your town!meta, nor do I really care or want to build a case based on meta. Flavor means very little to me because I don't know the source material. I dislike the fact that much of your case is built on misrep and stuff that only you could possibly know (which, to the rest of us, may or may not be true.) I dislike that you're "chaining up lynches" and trying to decide who to lynch the next day based on associations between people who have not yet flipped.

If there's anything I have failed to address, I will do so whenever I make my next post. Long posts ... are so not my thing. X_x

[Helios]

j00 is pretty much trying to get anyone but himself or boron lynched right now and i think that should seal the deal as those two being the scumteam.

@Boron: I'll do this in short bullets. Again really sorry to anger you last night I promise it wasn't even remotely intentional. I felt really bad about it though.

• Your reluctance to claim is basically that everyone started claiming and you still felt that we hadn't agreed to a massclaim. Why else would people start claiming if we didn't really agree on a massclaim at that point? It looked like you were hesitant and didn't want to claim all of a sudden.
• What I meant by not mentioning Straw with JB is that whenever I grouped the two together, you'd always say "you can't judge JB over STRAWMAN'S affiliation". It looked to me like you knew that Straw was going to flip scum and were trying to defend JB being town based off the wording from that.
• Again I'm only doing it because I'm probably going to die and I want to give the town my opinions. If anything, j00 is extremely scummy for this because he's been trying to set up lynches like crazy. Look back to last phase before JB died. He goes "well if JB flips town I'll wonder if the remaining scum is Mancer and Helios, using flavourbased fakeclaims to throw us off completely." To me that was his scumslip because of he's trying to push the pressure off onto Mancer and I who have played pretty protown all game. Based on his interactions with you I can tell you guys are buddies. Add that in with all that POE stuff that I told you about earlier, and how Mancer has cleared me with his role and I cleared everyone else with my role, and it's pretty clear you two are buddies.

[Sunwoo]

j00 is pretty much trying to get anyone but himself or boron lynched right now and i think that should seal the deal as those two being the scumteam.

Helios, I can turn this right around on you and say that you're doing your best to "prove" that you and Iris and Mancer are town; trying to set j00 and me up as the scum team; and get us lynched. Therefore, that should seal the deal as you being scum with one of the two.

Your reluctance to claim is basically that everyone started claiming and you still felt that we hadn't agreed to a massclaim. Why else would people start claiming if we didn't really agree on a massclaim at that point? It looked like you were hesitant and didn't want to claim all of a sudden.

This might be just me, but I didn't consider it official because no one had actually said, "Okay, we're doing a massclaim," or "Boron, I want you to claim." Maybe it's specific and particular. But I had explained why I didn't claim and I am honestly getting sick of explaining this over and over again. I wasn't hesitant. If someone had just said, "Boron, you're here. Claim now," then I would have on the spot. Is this really so hard to understand? Are you honestly saying that because I want people to tell me directly to claim instead of dancing around it this is scummy?

What I meant by not mentioning Straw with JB is that whenever I grouped the two together, you'd always say "you can't judge JB over STRAWMAN'S affiliation". It looked to me like you knew that Straw was going to flip scum and were trying to defend JB being town based off the wording from that.

I honestly think you're the one who's grasping now. You're saying I'm defending JB because of the order I said their names. Also, please ... read these two posts made by you.

I get this feeling that JB and Straw are buddies, therefore it'd be easy to fake one watcher report. Not to mention having two watchers in a game seems unnecessary. So I'm not buying this at all, but would still prefer if Straw was lynched over JB to prove this theory (if I'm off and he is a watcher then town doesn't lose a valuable role).

If I'm right about there being 3 scum, then we're at 6:3 right now, assuming there is no third party (which I don't think so since it's not MYLO right now I think and Paper was supposed to be the SK). This means that we'd be at MYLO next phase if we mislynch. I'd rather not take any risks and lynch off someone who's claimed a town role and hasn't counterclaimed. Therefore, to me, it makes most sense to lynch off Straw, since A) I think he'll flip scum and B) his flip will tell us more about if JB is lying or not.

Does it make sense in context now? You made it clear that you wanted to lynch Straw first to determine JB's alignment. Which is why I said Straw's alignment doesn't prove JB's. Because you wanted Straw flipped before JB to decide whether JB was scum or town.

Again I'm only doing it because I'm probably going to die and I want to give the town my opinions. If anything, j00 is extremely scummy for this because he's been trying to set up lynches like crazy. Look back to last phase before JB died. He goes "well if JB flips town I'll wonder if the remaining scum is Mancer and Helios, using flavourbased fakeclaims to throw us off completely." To me that was his scumslip because of he's trying to push the pressure off onto Mancer and I who have played pretty protown all game. Based on his interactions with you I can tell you guys are buddies. Add that in with all that POE stuff that I told you about earlier, and how Mancer has cleared me with his role and I cleared everyone else with my role, and it's pretty clear you two are buddies.

Helios, you're doing it again. If you've been "chaining lynches," then why is it justifiable for only you to do so? No, I am not giving j00 a pass if he's doing the same thing, but I'm really getting annoyed with this line of reasoning from you. "I'm only doing it because I'm probably gonna die." If this is the case for you, isn't it the same for everyone else who is town? You don't even have actual proof that j00 is scum.

Also, you and Mancer playing "pro-town" is subjective and a matter of opinion. Not every player is going to agree with you that the people you think are pro-town are necessarily pro-town. Does this make all of them scum?

Please, go ahead and enlighten me how j00's and my interactions make us scum buddies. Do tell. I can't wait to see how you manipulate this to fit your needs.

Enough of the POE stuff already, Helios, and stop throwing it around like it's actual proof. It's POE to YOU and YOU only. In other words, you know what you know and you don't know what we know. We know what we know and we don't know what you know. You keep saying that Mancer cleared you with his role and you cleared everyone else with your role. But what actual proof is there of this, aside from your word? None.

Let's turn this around on you. From my own POE, you and Mancer are scum buddies who have cleared one another for town cred, and you say that your role can "clear" people. But you can easily fake a "clear" as scum because you know your scum buddies and the third party is gone. You are now trying to blame the two remaining people whom you haven't "cleared".

Do you see how easily I can turn this around on you and paint you as the scum using POE? It doesn't work. How do we know who we can trust? You can't win anyone over using your own POE and POV as proof. This is the issue with your case right now. It's built primarily on your POE, and you have misrepped to suit your needs.

[Helios]

This is honestly pointless to argue about and I really don't want to risk making you mad again unintentionally. Do you realize how pointless my actions would be if I was scum? How could I even fakeclaim this shit? Why would I fakeclaim the main character of the manga? I don't want to waste my time with this anymore but if people reaally want (read: someone like Elieson or SB) I guess I can but otherwise I'm just going to let Elie and SB decide since I think it's pretty clear for Mancer and I.

[Sunwoo]

This is honestly pointless to argue about and I really don't want to risk making you mad again unintentionally. Do you realize how pointless my actions would be if I was scum? How could I even fakeclaim this shit? Why would I fakeclaim the main character of the manga? I don't want to waste my time with this anymore but if people reaally want (read: someone like Elieson or SB) I guess I can but otherwise I'm just going to let Elie and SB decide since I think it's pretty clear for Mancer and I.

I am trying not to make assumptions on the setup or make guesses on flavor I don't even know about. I don't know why nor do I want to make guesses on how BBM designed his setup.

Helios. The thing is, I don't know anything about your actions (I'm assuming you mean night actions and if not correct me). The voyeur and watcher are dead, and neither had a report on you. There's nothing that definitely proves your actions, just your word. Just like the rest of us. As for how you "could even fakeclaim this shit" ... how can I possibly know for sure? I can only make assumptions, such as perhaps it's your actual role or close to it but you are lying about your alignment. Or maybe scum have fakeclaims, which would explain the lack of a counterclaim. I don't know for sure. What I do know is that you've misrepped quite a few things that I've said and took them out of context to make me look worse, which looks bad to me.

[MancerNecro]

Problem is, it's not really that clear and I'm really confused.

Can Elieson and SB please share their thoughts? Just because you're confirmed/cleared/claimed does not mean that you can just up and go like that.

Especially WREN/Iris/SB's player slot. You've been missing from mid-Day 2, with or without reasoning. Even after SB subbed in, they've not even bothered to say that they might need time to read. That's 144 hours of inactivity until now, not counting the 48 hours of the 2 Night phases that they have missed.

I might consider this as intentional scum lurk and they were not modkilled because they managed to submit Night actions. (This could mean a SB/Helios scum team where Helios immediately goes to pseudo clear his team mate).

[MancerNecro]

Boron, I don't think that BBM would give anyone such an elaborate fake claim as Helios's.

[MancerNecro]

You know what, I'm going to go and read the whole freaking thread again. I'm sick of not having anything concrete to incriminate scum with.

[Helios]

Problem is, it's not really that clear and I'm really confused.

Can Elieson and SB please share their thoughts? Just because you're confirmed/cleared/claimed does not mean that you can just up and go like that.

Especially WREN/Iris/SB's player slot. You've been missing from mid-Day 2, with or without reasoning. Even after SB subbed in, they've not even bothered to say that they might need time to read. That's 144 hours of inactivity until now, not counting the 48 hours of the 2 Night phases that they have missed.

I might consider this as intentional scum lurk and they were not modkilled because they managed to submit Night actions. (This could mean a SB/Helios scum team where Helios immediately goes to pseudo clear his team mate).

Mancer think of your N2 action. You got a result that said a Kadabra rolecopped me. Since no one has claimed rolecop, it's pretty obvious that the rolecop is scum. Now, think about this. Why would scum rolecop their buddy? THEY WOUDLNT' ROLECOP THEIR BUDDY!!!! YOU PROVE THAT I'M TOWN.

SB can come back and tell you all that he's the town!doc (even night). Then what happens Boron? Are all three of us scum buddies? Seeing as the game is going on still, that's impossible. You're just trying to push a lynch onto anybody that isn't you or j00 since it's your last hope. It's pointless to argue about it with you and I don't want to accidentally get you mad over something stupid like this. Some things are more important to me than winning an argument in a mafia game.

[Sunwoo]

Boron, I don't think that BBM would give anyone such an elaborate fake claim as Helios's.

How do we know for sure though? How can we simply assume that? Perhaps his role is actually not a fake. Maybe it's his real role, or close enough to it. Roles are not indicative of alignment, after all. Which is why using this kind of role speculation to scum hunt doesn't help us any.

[Sunwoo]

SB can come back and tell you all that he's the town!doc (even night). Then what happens Boron? Are all three of us scum buddies? Seeing as the game is going on still, that's impossible. You're just trying to push a lynch onto anybody that isn't you or j00 since it's your last hope. It's pointless to argue about it with you and I don't want to accidentally get you mad over something stupid like this. Some things are more important to me than winning an argument in a mafia game.

Helios, would you PLEASE read through my posts? I am really getting sick of repeating stuff I have already said. If you're scum, then it's pretty easy to clear townies. You know who your scum buddies are.

You're right that if there were 3 scum left, then the game would be over by now so there must be 2 left. When did I say that if SB came back and claimed town doctor, that makes all three of you scum buddies? The thing is, SB being town does not mean anything about your alignment. Because it can still go both ways. Again. Stop misrepping me and READ my posts.

[Elieson]

##vote MancerNecro

[Helios]

Helios, would you PLEASE read through my posts? I am really getting sick of repeating stuff I have already said. If you're scum, then it's pretty easy to clear townies. You know who your scum buddies are.

You're right that if there were 3 scum left, then the game would be over by now so there must be 2 left. When did I say that if SB came back and claimed town doctor, that makes all three of you scum buddies? The thing is, SB being town does not mean anything about your alignment. Because it can still go both ways. Again. Stop misrepping me and READ my posts.

I AM reading through your posts and you're missing the point/misrepping/whatever you want to call it. You've been saying "oh you can't prove Wren/Iris/SB's role" and then you're also saying that I'm scum and you're also saying Mancer is scum. So you're saying all three of us could be scum. You're just trying to push the lynch off on someone else because you don't have a choice if you want to win. I get it, it's not a big deal.

Elieson we can worry about if Mancer or j00 is scum next phase just vote Boron because if she flips scum it's game set and match (unless you're actually scum trying to mislynch Mancer but that's pretty pointless if you can't even talk). So yeah if you're town don't vote Mancer vote Boron yeahhhh.

[MancerNecro]

Helios, I'm pointing suspicion on WREN/Iris/SB there. Even if they're not a strong trainer, I'm not sure if they're legitimately town. What if WREN/Iris/SB was given a Team Rocket character that is neither a Gym Leader or a Pokedex Holder (Team Rockets don't have Pokedexes obviously). It could even be one of their strongest or high level aides. It would definitely mess with your role.

I think the only fully cleared townies here are Elieson (he's Silenced), Helios and I. FMPOV anyway.

[MancerNecro]

Elieson, stop being obstinate and look at what we have been saying thus far. Just cause your role is pseudo-proven does not mean you can be a complete jerk about it and tunnel on anyone you like.

[Helios]

Helios, I'm pointing suspicion on WREN/Iris/SB there. Even if they're not a strong trainer, I'm not sure if they're legitimately town. What if WREN/Iris/SB was given a Team Rocket character that is neither a Gym Leader or a Pokedex Holder (Team Rockets don't have Pokedexes obviously). It could even be one of their strongest or high level aides. It would definitely mess with your role.

I think the only fully cleared townies here are Elieson (he's Silenced), Helios and I. FMPOV anyway.

The Team Rocket trainers that are mentioned in the manga are Lt. Surge, Sabrina, Koga, and Giovanni. Those are all gym leaders and "strong" trainers. Nurse Joy is NOT a "strong trainer" that could give me experience. When I targeted SB last night, I got no experience. Therefore, SB is Nurse Joy. When you add that to the clear list, Boron and j00 are left.

[Sunwoo]

I AM reading through your posts and you're missing the point/misrepping/whatever you want to call it. You've been saying "oh you can't prove Wren/Iris/SB's role" and then you're also saying that I'm scum and you're also saying Mancer is scum. So you're saying all three of us could be scum. You're just trying to push the lynch off on someone else because you don't have a choice if you want to win. I get it, it's not a big deal.

You are really giving me a headache and I'm starting to get irritated again. First of all, my saying "you can't prove SB's role" is supposed to mean that you can't actually prove it beyond a doubt to anyone else.

I'm going to give you a hypothetical example to show you what I mean. You claim town cop. You claim that player X is town, but you yourself are under suspicion and player X has hardly been clean (which is why you scanned them). What do all of the other players have aside from your word that player X is town? How can you actually prove it, short of being lynched and flipping the role you claimed to be, or player X flipping town? THIS IS WHAT I AM SAYING.

All I know right now is that you and Mancer are tied together by his N2 results, which, once again, are by his word only. I'm leaning town on SB right now because you and Mancer are tied too closely together. You are, once again, putting words in my mouth or misunderstanding me and using it to twist my words to your advantage.

[MancerNecro]

Here comes the point in time when I'm having internal conflicts within my mind because of how believable everything you're all saying is!!!

I can't freaking take this!!!

You all are making me seriously doubt myself, even in real life.....

I really don't know anything else apart from what I've already told you guys, okay? I can't really make a proper judgment in this game. I need more opinions for it...

I think I might need a little break from this too... To clear my mind a little and let me regain my confidence. I'll come back in a few hours' time.

[Elieson]

##unvote

##vote Mancer

##unvote

##vote Sangyul

##unvote

[j00]

Helios, why are you not even considering the possibility that Mancer is scum? Just because of his result of rolecopping you? If he's scum, it's not hard to fake those.

PoE proves nothing, how many times do that need to be repeated? All results that are out could be faked, nothing is conclusive except Elieson being gov and that doesn't even prove alignment. He could have been silenced for town cred or whatever, no one is considering lynching him today at least.

It's not like I haven't got my suspicions on Boron either, she hasn't played great due to inactivity and stuff but Helios' attack on her makes me believe that they're really on opposite sides. And thing is, a lot of Helios' points are terribad. You accuse her of wanting to gain town cred by defending JB? Please explain how defending a town lynch is scummier than pushing a town lynch like you did. Besides, she hardly defended him as hard as you make her to. She mainly said tying JB and Straw together based on claim was stupid, and a lot of other people, especially JB, said so too. The only ones who didn't was Mancer really, who tunneled really hard.

You also haven't refuted my point with the safeguard claim; I've already mentioned that she claimed before I did, so she didn't just use my claim as her fake, and I had no reason to claim hers as my fake. Heck, I've claimed JoaT, I could have said anything, why would I choose something already claimed? Because I wanted to draw attention to myself?

I get that you believe me to be scum because you think Mancer and I are on opposite teams because of his result. If I were scum then I've done hella lot of stuff to draw attention to myself. Scum had no reason at all to claim like I did, and I was the first person to claim D2. "Hey I tried to target Elie but hit Baldrick" won't even give me town cred since Baldrick was silenced at the time.

Again I'm only doing it because I'm probably going to die and I want to give the town my opinions. If anything, j00 is extremely scummy for this because he's been trying to set up lynches like crazy. Look back to last phase before JB died. He goes "well if JB flips town I'll wonder if the remaining scum is Mancer and Helios, using flavourbased fakeclaims to throw us off completely." To me that was his scumslip because of he's trying to push the pressure off onto Mancer and I who have played pretty protown all game. Based on his interactions with you I can tell you guys are buddies. Add that in with all that POE stuff that I told you about earlier, and how Mancer has cleared me with his role and I cleared everyone else with my role, and it's pretty clear you two are buddies.

You played pretty protown until JB flipped, which made you and Mancer look worse because of your tunneling. JB's lynch was mainly caused by flavorspec, and by the end of the face, the way JB was behaving when he had no way of avoiding the lynch seemed genuinely town to me and I really started wondering if we've been on wrong track this whole time. I was iffy on Boron before JB's flip because late on claiming and inactivity and all that, but then you also accuse her of scum because she defended JB which seems like you're trying to distract from the fact that you and Mancer pushed JB really hard.

Please explain where I've been trying to set up lynches as crazy? You've been doing that a lot more than me, JB was pretty much started by you.

TL;DR the reason I'm defending Boron is because your points on her are terrible and screams scum. You're worse than Mancer, who admits you're not autocleared either, so PoE be damned.

And about claims and roles and stuff, your's could easily be fake because all you need to know is that Red's not in the game and you could just make up a role. What would your result be on Paper anyway? Mewtwo is strong but he's not a trainer.

And SB, you posted in the other mafia game, please post SOMETHING here because your slot has been the worst one in the whole game. If you and Elieson are scum and the rest of us is having this big in-town fight then I give up but please

Elieson being scum would actually contradict nothing any of us has said

[j00]

Why would scum rolecop their buddy? THEY WOUDLNT' ROLECOP THEIR BUDDY!!!! YOU PROVE THAT I'M TOWN.

If you're buddies they don't need to rolecop you! Mancer would know what you were anyway!

I admit Helios played pretty pro-town before this phase. I'm not ruling you out as town completely ie I still doubt everything but you need to explain yourself better than MANCER TELL THEM I'M TOWN because that means squat if I think you two are scumbuddies.

Why do you not consider the possibility that Mancer is scum? If Helios is town and Mancer scum, Mancer's result would still make sense because for all I know Mancer could be the rolecop faking his results.

I'm okay with lynching everyone that isn't me or Boron because all the accusations on her are really weak and Helios and Mancer are acting way worse than her. Mancer seem genuinely confused to me though, so I still find Helios more scummy because his logic this phase has been crap

[charlie_]

note that I'm writing this as I read to save time.

Helios, I'm pointing suspicion on WREN/Iris/SB there. Even if they're not a strong trainer, I'm not sure if they're legitimately town. What if WREN/Iris/SB was given a Team Rocket character that is neither a Gym Leader or a Pokedex Holder (Team Rockets don't have Pokedexes obviously). It could even be one of their strongest or high level aides. It would definitely mess with your role.

I think the only fully cleared townies here are Elieson (he's Silenced), Helios and I. FMPOV anyway.

If Helios is cleared, doesn't that make me clear?

Elieson, stop being obstinate and look at what we have been saying thus far. Just cause your role is pseudo-proven does not mean you can be a complete jerk about it and tunnel on anyone you like.

Mancer, you spent most of last phase tunneling JB from what I remember. Just saying.

These posts make me think that both Helios and Boron are trying to help to explain and justify Wren's actions and what he could have done better.

They are saying "There might not be an Odd Night Doctor even though there is an Even Night Doctor." It looks like they are trying to help make Wren appear town. Are the three of you scum buddies?

This entire response by Helios shows that he has a much greater grasp of the game than a normal townie. Look at the way he phrased his paragraphs. They leave no uncertainty in them. Thus, I think that Helios, Wren and Taewoo might be scum buddies.

##Unvote: Shatter

##Vote: Helios for being the most sure of himself in his posts.

I already said I find Shatter scummy for some reasons.

I think Strawman has been very non-existent and did not contribute much. I actually did not even realise that Strawman is in this game until you brought this up to me, actually. I think this form of non-existence could be an attempt at active lurking. So, Strawman leans scum to me for now.

Helios, Shinori's "town" meta or not ... are you saying you're going to give him a pass whenever he acts like this on the basis that "he's acting with emotion so he's playing like town"? One day, people are going to wise up and learn to use meta like that to their advantage. Also, while I agree that Strawman hasn't been at all clean, I doubt that he's trying to "fuel fire" on Shinori.

Will reread Kay, JB, and Strawman.

This feels like subtle buddying to me. Or this could be me looking too deeply into things.

How do you know how many scum there are in the game? This seems like you having some extra information that town does not have either.

Waffle again. Typical Scum!Shatter.

That Helios from that quote should be to shoot Strawman. My bad, Strawman's name slipped my mind when I was typing that post.

JB, could you read that post where I claimed then read the following wall of text and it will all make sense:

I tied it to you because you were the one who made the largest reaction to the Pokemon Kadabra, and tying it to Sabrina, as well as immediately assuming that you knew Sabrina's role (a possible attempt to mislead town and possibly to make my claim seem less credible) are the slips and reactions that I was referring to.

I purposely emphasized Kadabra in my softclaiming in order to scout for reactions like that.

Furthermore, I have a lot of scum reads on you, in addition to a lot of scummy actions that you've made.

Also, instead of voting for and pressuring inactive people (not scumhunting or contributing, btw), you should put up your scum reads, which you have failed to do so all game.

I prefer your lynch over Strawman's because Strawman has scum hunted and posted out reads on various players. You have only waffled, then told us who you think is town and massively defended yourself from our attacks and comments.

Not once have you really scum hunted and contributed to discussions.

I am very confident of this lynch. JB's posts and reactions have only served to further solidify my confidence.

Hey, what did Mancer vote Helios for earlier? Confidence? Now he's oh so confident himself it's not scummy, is it?

All I know is that my results are certainly correct.

Nowhere in the rules does it say all night results are accurate, and we know they aren't because there's a damn godfather flip. Try harder.

Mancer also tried to push a lynch on the closest person to confirmed town by twisting his words, and feebly pushing that governor is possibly scum. While it's possible, it's unlikely as hell especially since town have a bunch of nerfed roles with alternate/specific night restrictions. Adding Godfather to that just proves that this case is terrible.

I honestly hate having this kind of role that does not give any 100% incriminating results or information. Makes the role kind of pointless, in my opinion.

This screams backing yourself up for JB's townflip.

Hmm... I won't be able to address your reasons if you can't tell me about them.

This feels weak to me.

Mancer is trying to a push a lynch on basically everybody in the game. Does this not look scummy to anybody else?

One of Boron and j00 is scum based upon them both claiming Green. Unless I'm misrepping this somebody please halp

The other is Mancer. Not sure which of the first are scum, but I'm leaning Boron on it, although I need to reread to make sure (not now though, I've been reading for 3 and a half freaking hours).

read everything but j00's latest posts

I need a break

[charlie_]

Waffle again. Typical Scum!Shatter.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);"><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);"><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);">That Helios from that quote should be to shoot Strawman. My bad, Strawman's name slipped my mind when I was typing that post.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);"><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);"><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);">JB, could you read that post where I claimed then read the following wall of text and it will all make sense:<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);"><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);">I tied it to you because you were the one who made the largest reaction to the Pokemon Kadabra, and tying it to Sabrina, as well as immediately assuming that you knew Sabrina's role (a possible attempt to mislead town and possibly to make my claim seem less credible) are the slips and reactions that I was referring to.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);"><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);">I purposely emphasized Kadabra in my softclaiming in order to scout for reactions like that.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);"><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);"><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);">Furthermore, I have a lot of scum reads on you, in addition to a lot of scummy actions that you've made.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);"><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);"><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);">Also, instead of voting for and pressuring inactive people (not scumhunting or contributing, btw), you should put up your scum reads, which you have failed to do so all game.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);"><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);">I prefer your lynch over Strawman's because Strawman has scum hunted and posted out reads on various players. You have only waffled, then told us who you think is town and massively defended yourself from our attacks and comments.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);"><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);">Not once have you really scum hunted and contributed to discussions.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);"><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);"><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);">I am very confident of this lynch. JB's posts and reactions have only served to further solidify my confidence.

also for this one double line spaces are sometimes what scum use to make them seem like they're contributing more

[charlie_]

oh for fucks sake I'll fix it later