British Mafia - Game Over! Britain Wins!

[Darros]

About not voting: Because I didn't really have a truly strong scum read. Not enough that I felt like voting. I prodded a lot more people than Boron already . I feel like I got some useful info already and thought enough to vote, but I'd still like some reads from others. Like you, j00, and Prims.

"my strongest scum read wasn't truly strong even though I never bothered to say that it wasn't strong" wtf

It's Day 2, we have flips, we have information. You're all over the place and if you don't have good scumreads maybe you should read in depth more.

[Eurykins]

3. I did, carefully at that.

2. And I quote "##Vote: Paperblade (since I garner his lynch is happening today above the rest)".

1. You did the same thing in training and I realized it wasn't so good a town tell as I thought. Your reads are too scattered.

I'm really surprised you reacted so strongly to this given the circumstances (i.e. not being voted). You should have been playing long enough to know a prod when you see one.

I think you'll find I'll change my gameplay a lot until I get used to this game on SF.

"##Vote: Paperblade (since I garner his lynch is happening today above the rest)".

Underlined/Bolded = "Since I believe/interpret the votals as his (Paperblade's) lynch is happening today above the rest (of those I would like to lynch today)"

In addition, my reads are not scattered at all. I maintain the perspective (and have already been accurate on one of the scum reads, though I admit to have been wrong WRT BBM- which may partially be based on the meta gameplay that I personally abhor utilizing and watching people base their own gameplay off of). As of right now: the remaining scum reads- you and Psyche- have not changed at all.

I also tend to react strongly when someone is basically lying in claiming I said/did things when I clearly did not. I do not appreciate nor do I enjoy my posts being misrepped and/or otherwise supposedly seen as being scummy/bad when they aren't. It also doesn't take someone voting me to yield said reaction either- but it actually brings up another point: I find it odd that you blatantly stated that I was your biggest scum read, and then didn't even put a vote on me. [Ninja'd by a few others stating this fact.]

Yeah, Makaze- your gameplay is completely chaotic this game, and seems extremely careless/half-hearted in terms of efforts. In addition, it makes me wonder if you're also attempting to play off the announcement at the end of the D2 opening mod post (in which case someone chose to take a jab at my posting as a whole).

[j00]

But I already voted Darros? I gave a reason too and yeah, he was voted Makaze, but his case was mostly "overall Makaze feels like the worst" and he didn't have very concrete arguments about any of you.

Darros: what do you think about the Paper/Makaze interactions at the beginning of the game? Don't they affect your read in any way? What I got from the last phase was that Psych looks worse from his try to have someone else than Paperblade lynched, while Makaze looks better because of the weird way Paper was talking about him. What makes you conclude Makaze is still worse?

[Darros]

Suspicious of Psyche and Cam at the moment. I've noted how they refused to vote for Paperblade - they could have been fellow scum trying to turn the lynch towards me: aka the second most "scummy" player.

##Vote: Cam

T'was odd that he voted for me and then wasn't seen again for the rest of D1. Plus his Boron vote beforehand seemed like he was grasping for an excuse to avoid voting Paper.

It's hard to see "me"-centric logic because there's usually some degree of bias in it. I understand your suspicions, but this seems like a minimal post. Could you elaborate some? Cam did more D1 than just vote you.

[Sunwoo]

Paper basically sheeped Prims in his Makaze vote, and his opinion on him "changed" because Prims thought Makaze's point was bad. It sounded more like Paper wanted to stay on Prims' good side than anything else.

[j00]

If Makaze was his scumbuddy he'd have a thought process along the lines of "hey my scumbuddy is mentioned maybe I should mention that he looks kinda suspicious now that is has been brought up, so that there's enough suspicion cast upon him and then drop the whole thing later" which I find inconceivably dumb, but do tell me if this is something scum!Paper would do

You do have a point that Makaze could be the third, I just don't think he bussed Paperblade.

[Darros]

Darros: what do you think about the Paper/Makaze interactions at the beginning of the game? Don't they affect your read in any way? What I got from the last phase was that Psych looks worse from his try to have someone else than Paperblade lynched, while Makaze looks better because of the weird way Paper was talking about him. What makes you conclude Makaze is still worse?

Well the only real interaction at the beginning of the game I'm seeing was this

Paper, why do you cut down the forest?

(Why are you defending a potential mafioso's actions?)

which could be a potential slip I guess but honestly it's nothing to go off of.

The only other thing that really happened was paper voted makaze and makaze completely ignored it. Like it's a little suspicious when you get my quote and that action but it may just be me being paranoid. Paperblade not posting much makes it kind of hard to get associative reads based on interaction.

I know Psych tried to change the lynch target, but he did mention it was for reasons of fairness. I've been his his position before. ((Long story short I was playing with Lucina and he was going to be out for the rest of the phase because one of his relatives had cancer and then people jumped on him when he couldn't defend himself. I didn't want to lynch but ended up voting Lucina at the end who ended up flipping scum. That's kind of tangential but eh.)) So I'm not sure if Psych was into "fairness" or defending his scumbuddy. It could be either way. His case on FFM wasn't garbage either, it's more trying to change the vote at the last minute was odd behavior. I could still see him as scum because of other D1 actions and D2 actions though.

[Darros]

idk that makes me sound emotional af but like I've been in fairness cases before and it sucks, but this one is kinda different which is why I still think Psych is scummy

[Makaze]

I think you guys are using your guts way too much on me. If you look at my voting record, what reason would I have to help start a wagon on Paperblade?

Assuming I did kill him despite that being a horrible idea, why would I keep posting as readily as I have been? Wouldn't I be worried that my death would leave only one scum? There is also an SK that presents yet another threat to scum.

@j00: I sheeped Eury's reasoning because I hand't thoroughly checked the thread and analyzed actions. As you should be able to tell, I have a bad habit of taking things at face value in this game.

It was not a very strong read, but it was my strongest. That's why I mentioned it instead of voted it.

What I am doing shows I have no self-preservation. That is all it shows.

Once again, I am not saying that my attitude is good, or that I have proof I am town. But I know that if I were scum, I would have huge incentive to not do anything that could hurt my image when I just managed to help myself using a hypothetical bus. If you judge things by emotions, you will never get a solid rad on me and that's a fact.

@Darros: I don't really care if I give the wrong impression to the people I am prodding. In fact, I don't think I could have made Eury angry without doing what I did. In this case I got the info I wanted and more. I can't get a true read on Eury's intent as of their reactions, but their vote on Psych makes a lot of sense and is definitely a pro-town move so my suspicions are more clear now.

Yeah, Makaze- your gameplay is completely chaotic this game, and seems extremely careless/half-hearted in terms of efforts. In addition, it makes me wonder if you're also attempting to play off the announcement at the end of the D2 opening mod post (in which case someone chose to take a jab at my posting as a whole).

This I can't deny. I am very happy that I managed to help kill a mafia on the first day, but my investment in this game is low. I had a bad start and some shit went down with Prims that made me lose a lot of interest. I feel obligated to ride it out, but I am not willing to get emotionally involved in this game.

Deal with the chaos or lynch a town. As long as the island and its flora and fauna are saved, I'll be fine. I don't have enough care about my survival to be cautious.

[Darros]

@Darros: I don't really care if I give the wrong impression to the people I am prodding. In fact, I don't think I could have made Eury angry without doing what I did. In this case I got the info I wanted and more. I can't get a true read on Eury's intent as of their reactions, but their vote on Psych makes a lot of sense and is definitely a pro-town move so my suspicions are more clear now.

So you're saying you don't care if your actions make you look scummy? If you're town, doing that could have people pile on you and cause a mislynch and you would know better the entire time. And you wouldn't really care. Hm. It's not a wise decision to go around making people angry on purpose, you know. There's a fine line between playing a game and being a jerk.

[Darros]

This attitude is actually terrible what the actual fuck as a townie you should be concerned about lynching scum. Painting yourself scummy and then saying "oh deal with it" when people call you out on it is ridiculous.

[Makaze]

Oh, I'm concerned about lynching scum. I firmly believe that Psych is scum by their actions.

I've voted, my reasoning is sound, now I'm just addressing people who want to call me out. What else am I supposed to do for the rest of this Day now that I feel we have a confirmed scum?

Somehow I feel like ignoring your complaints is worse than telling you why I am acting the way I am.

[Junk]

Makaze why weren't you scumreading Eury day 1? What exactly do you want from eury to convince you that she is scumhunting?

FFM why arent't you considering the possibility of me being scum as well? Your cam vote relies on the few people who didn't vote paperblade so why am i not on your scumlist?

Psych what are your thoughts on the people accusing you.

I reread FFM's new defense post on D1 and I feel he justified himself better which I will explain later because I am tired. Still not happy with his scumhunting skills though.

I was actually beginning to scumread BBM at the very end of d1 but hadn't really gotten a thorough view point of his posts so decided not to vote him just yet till i read more.

Makaze is playing super weird because he never actually mentioned Eury D1 and shenanigans and I think he instantly townreads her because of her vote I think.

[Sunwoo]

If Makaze was his scumbuddy he'd have a thought process along the lines of "hey my scumbuddy is mentioned maybe I should mention that he looks kinda suspicious now that is has been brought up, so that there's enough suspicion cast upon him and then drop the whole thing later" which I find inconceivably dumb, but do tell me if this is something scum!Paper would do

You do have a point that Makaze could be the third, I just don't think he bussed Paperblade.

Ah, good point, I forgot for a moment that he was one of the early votes on Paper. From that alone I agree that he looks less likely to be scum. (He's still my top suspicion for the third, but I'm not going to go third-hunting at the moment.)

I do find the FFM counter wagon to be interesting, though. I think when I made my post about how "we should start consolidating now", Makaze and Paper were actually tied for the leading wagons. Cam's vote pushed FFM to three votes, tying him with Paper and Makaze, and Psych tried to push FFM as a counter wagon to Paper. I am rather leery about this, which is why I want Cam to come back and for Psych to post some actual reads. (If one of Cam or Psych flips scum, I'd move FFM to "not-scum".)

Makaze, please stop AtEing.

[Darros]

Oh, I'm concerned about lynching scum. I firmly believe that Psych is scum by their actions.

I've voted, my reasoning is sound, now I'm just addressing people who want to call me out. What else am I supposed to do for the rest of this Day now that I feel we have a confirmed scum?

Somehow I feel like ignoring your complaints is worse than telling you why I am acting the way I am.

There's two scum and a hostile ITP left in the game. If you're going "oh i found one my job is done" youre not contributing to the town. And if you're so certain you have a confirmed scum, chances are your head is up your ass. There's no actual confirmation here, I don't see a cop report. And Psych hasn't even gotten a chance to defend himself yet. You need to get off your high horse.

You doing this and going "oh I'm done now" makes me feel like you're scum. Your actions aren't benefiting town, and your attitude needs adjustment.

[Darros]

Ah, good point, I forgot for a moment that he was one of the early votes on Paper. From that alone I agree that he looks less likely to be scum. (He's still my top suspicion for the third, but I'm not going to go third-hunting at the moment.)

Actually I could see ITP!Makaze. These actions plus the questioning about ITP might mean he is the ITP. Suggesting it could be survivor might mean that he's the ITP himself trying to get attention off of it. Either way I think he's a hostile party, and I'd still lynch him.

[Makaze]

Makaze why weren't you scumreading Eury day 1? What exactly do you want from eury to convince you that she is scumhunting?

Makaze is playing super weird because he never actually mentioned Eury D1 and shenanigans and I think he instantly townreads her because of her vote I think.

Because it was really weak to the point of being an afterthought. With Paper out of the way, I looked back at what else seemed suspicious: I felt Eury deserved a little bit of a prod because they seemed to sheep the vote a bit and their reasons overall didn't strike me. Probably quality over quantity bias there.

I wanted a real, reasoned vote rather than a general break down of everything just about everyone did. I wanted conviction.

They actually gave that just as I posted my read. It happened to be the best reasoning I've heard for anyone in the thread, hence the near instantaneous flip.

And since people are still having problems with me and think I'm not scumhinting, I'd still like to hear Prims' opinions... And, come to think of it, FFMs. Forgot he existed there for a while.

There's two scum and a hostile ITP left in the game. If you're going "oh i found one my job is done" youre not contributing to the town. And if you're so certain you have a confirmed scum, chances are your head is up your ass. There's no actual confirmation here, I don't see a cop report. And Psych hasn't even gotten a chance to defend himself yet. You need to get off your high horse.

You doing this and going "oh I'm done now" makes me feel like you're scum. Your actions aren't benefiting town, and your attitude needs adjustment.

I actually asked a few people for opinions and am still waiting. I'm not 'done', but I am 'done' until new information comes to light. I've voted. I've made prods. I've asked questions. I can't vote for more than one person at a time and it's clear I can't scumhunt without good info without riling feathers.

I spent nearly all of my first game F5'ing and waiting for new info. I realize now that isn't necessary.

I'll see how about changing my attitude.

@Sangyul: Aren't I the one defending myself from AtEs?

What does ITP stand for? I googled it but can't find anything.

[Sunwoo]

Makaze using AtE is really annoying, but this kind of attitude can come from either defeatist town or scum/ITP trying to manipulate other players' emotions to evade suspicion. (And I HAVE seen AtE get anti-town off the hook before in previous games.) We get it, you think you're playing badly and there are other players who think you're scummy. If you're really town, then scum hunt and keep scum hunting.

[Darros]

I actually asked a few people for opinions and am still waiting. I'm not 'done', but I am 'done' until new information comes to light. I've voted. I've made prods. I've asked questions. I can't vote for more than one person at a time and it's clear I can't scumhunt without good info without riling feathers.

That's not the vibe I got from your last post, you seemed pretty finished in it to me.

What does ITP stand for? I googled it but can't find anything.

Independent Third Party

[Darros]

SHIN: If you could put links to the phases in the OP that would be super duper ultra awesome. And you may want to move your dead players from the living players to the dead players section.

[Makaze]

Actually I could see ITP!Makaze. These actions plus the questioning about ITP might mean he is the ITP. Suggesting it could be survivor might mean that he's the ITP himself trying to get attention off of it. Either way I think he's a hostile party, and I'd still lynch him.

On a purely rational side, this doesn't make sense. If I wanted to draw attention away from it, especially in the interest of keeping the third party away from me, I would not bring it up on my own. I would have no reason to connect myself to the third part by mentioning it. I would have good reason to purposefully avoid the subject the third party entirely unless someone else accused me first.

[Sunwoo]

And since people are still having problems with me and think I'm not scumhinting, I'd still like to hear Prims' opinions... And, come to think of it, FFMs. Forgot he existed there for a while.

Absent people will get here when they get here, but asking repeatedly for absent players to contribute feels like false contribution in itself. Call them out when they get here and still do nothing. Call them scummy/evading scum for not doing anything. Mention it once that you'd like someone to say more. While you're "waiting", read through the thread. Surely there are reads you can get from info already in the thread? For example, I still have no idea what you even think of me despite trying to pick apart at my role several times.

@Sangyul: Aren't I the one defending myself from AtEs?

Deal with the chaos or lynch a town. As long as the island and its flora and fauna are saved, I'll be fine. I don't have enough care about my survival to be cautious.

This kind of shit is AtE and I'd really not like to see any more of this from anyone.

[Eurykins]

I think you guys are using your guts way too much on me. If you look at my voting record, what reason would I have to help start a wagon on Paperblade?

Assuming I did kill him despite that being a horrible idea, why would I keep posting as readily as I have been? Wouldn't I be worried that my death would leave only one scum? There is also an SK that presents yet another threat to scum.

@j00: I sheeped Eury's reasoning because I hand't thoroughly checked the thread and analyzed actions. As you should be able to tell, I have a bad habit of taking things at face value in this game.

It was not a very strong read, but it was my strongest. That's why I mentioned it instead of voted it.

What I am doing shows I have no self-preservation. That is all it shows.

Once again, I am not saying that my attitude is good, or that I have proof I am town. But I know that if I were scum, I would have huge incentive to not do anything that could hurt my image when I just managed to help myself using a hypothetical bus. If you judge things by emotions, you will never get a solid rad on me and that's a fact.

@Darros: I don't really care if I give the wrong impression to the people I am prodding. In fact, I don't think I could have made Eury angry without doing what I did. In this case I got the info I wanted and more. I can't get a true read on Eury's intent as of their reactions, but their vote on Psych makes a lot of sense and is definitely a pro-town move so my suspicions are more clear now.

This I can't deny. I am very happy that I managed to help kill a mafia on the first day, but my investment in this game is low. I had a bad start and some shit went down with Prims that made me lose a lot of interest. I feel obligated to ride it out, but I am not willing to get emotionally involved in this game.

Deal with the chaos or lynch a town. As long as the island and its flora and fauna are saved, I'll be fine. I don't have enough care about my survival to be cautious.

Few things wrt the post above:

1. Paperblade was playing badly and was pretty inactive. Grounds for ezpz lynching of scum. By supporting/helping the wagon, you'd gain "town cred". In addition, no scumbuddy would try to outwardly defend him either, as it would be a death sentence in itself once Paperblade flipped.

2. "Assuming I did kill him despite that being a horrible idea, why would I keep posting as readily as I have been?"

~ It's odd how you jump from "I helped wagon Paperblade" to having "killed him" yourself.

~ If you're scum of any sort, it's kinda obvious: You're watching scum get nailed for poor gameplay + inactivity. It generally then prompts the rest of the scum players/team or otherwise gives them an incentive NOT to be inactive, imo.

3. "Wouldn't I be worried that my death would leave only one scum? There is also an SK that presents yet another threat to scum."

~ This is assuming you are Mafia scum, as opposed to ITP/SK of sorts (the third party floating around).

4. The whole sheeping thing is bad. You're basically stating that you didn't check through the thread to gather your own thoughts/notes as to what's happened thus far?

5. "It was not a very strong read, but it was my strongest. That's why I mentioned it instead of voted it."

~ It's ED2. We have 72 hours until the end (unless some random hammer falls in the meantime), so why are you so worried about placing any sort of votes currently?

~ How strong does a read have to be in order to warrant a vote?

6. "What I am doing shows I have no self-preservation. That is all it shows."

~ The fact that you feel the NEED to constantly state claims like this is pretty scummy, imo. Actions speak louder than words- if you say that your posting has never had anything other than townie-intent behind them, then the majority of your posts should've been solid scum-hunting with reasonable cases, points, etc. But that's far from what your gameplay has been as a whole.

7. I find it interesting that you choose to say "I am very happy that I managed to help kill a mafia on the first day", as opposed to just saying, 'scum'. See, both ITP (who, according to Boron, wishes to take things over by him/herself) and town benefit from Mafia dying, so the notion of you being happy to have nailed Mafia doesn't really ring any pro-townie vibes, imo.

8. You don't care enough to "survive", but clearly you have enough interest in continuously insisting that everything you've said/done = PURELY townie interest/intent.

Psyche remains near the top of my list, but at this point, Makaze's dropping more scum vibes, (and given his responses) I'm feeling he's actually the SK. And if that's the case, I wish to remove the source of the second night kills ASAP while searching for the remaining Mafia scum.

##Unvote

##Vote: Makaze

=== And cut by Makaze ===

Because it was really weak to the point of being an afterthought. With Paper out of the way, I looked back at what else seemed suspicious: I felt Eury deserved a little bit of a prod because they seemed to sheep the vote a bit and their reasons overall didn't strike me. Probably quality over quantity bias there.

I wanted a real, reasoned vote rather than a general break down of everything just about everyone did. I wanted conviction.

They actually gave that just as I posted my read. It happened to be the best reasoning I've heard for anyone in the thread, hence the near instantaneous flip.

And since people are still having problems with me and think I'm not scumhinting, I'd still like to hear Prims' opinions... And, come to think of it, FFMs. Forgot he existed there for a while.

I actually asked a few people for opinions and am still waiting. I'm not 'done', but I am 'done' until new information comes to light. I've voted. I've made prods. I've asked questions. I can't vote for more than one person at a time and it's clear I can't scumhunt without good info without riling feathers.

I spent nearly all of my first game F5'ing and waiting for new info. I realize now that isn't necessary.

I'll see how about changing my attitude.

@Sangyul: Aren't I the one defending myself from AtEs?

What does ITP stand for? I googled it but can't find anything.

1. For someone who's tired of repeating himself in points being put against him, I'm going to echo that sentiment by reiterating: I wasn't "sheeping a vote" when I had more than enough of my OWN reason/case to vote Paperblade.

2. Asking for people's opinions (IE. From Prims and others) = Still doesn't make for productive scum hunting. You're basically playing the game of, "I'll sit back until the others arrive."

3. Your notion of being 'done' yet not really 'done' sounds bad to me. Town shouldn't care if scum hunting "riles feathers" or not. Town focuses on scum hunting, and that's that. You're being extremely self-serving in this aspect, and that's scummy to me.

[Eurykins]

I am the best at formating.

##Unvote

##Vote: Makaze

[Darros]

On a purely rational side, this doesn't make sense. If I wanted to draw attention away from it, especially in the interest of keeping the third party away from me, I would not bring it up on my own. I would have no reason to connect myself to the third part by mentioning it. I would have good reason to purposefully avoid the subject the third party entirely unless someone else accused me first.

Someone else brought it up first, you bringing up the idea of survivor ((as hostile ITP)) would make sense. Because town going after a survivor is an absolute waste of time and we'd be focused on 2 scum instead. Also self meta sucks.

Either way I still think you're hostile.

Eury you forgot to bold your vote