British Mafia - Game Over! Britain Wins!

[CT075]

@makaze i probably missed something wrt those reaction tests or i'm bad at reading deeply into things because that's pretty much the first i've heard of you saying that those two are all you've done (linked post notwithstanding)

my vote's on junko because i think he's a better lynch than either makaze or FFM

i would also be okay with a boron lynch (hello there, out-of-nowhere scumreads!), will elaborate eventually (ie when i come back)

[j00]

To word that better, Boron usually is pretty good at analyzing general content, the fact that her votes were on people that does things anyone can see are bad, with two of them being bad cases on herself, makes it feel like she's doing easy mislynches.

[Sunwoo]

Boron: you're usually good at putting down cases, I feel like these are too easy, and you spend a lot of time explaining them it's very easy to see why those people are bad. Darros doing blatantly bad things in RVS and getting wagoned is so standard I wouldn't even think of it as an alignment tell anymore. FFM also tend to have shaky cases, but his scum hunting and comments read as town to me.

Basically, yeah, I don't like the fact that you go after the "easy cases", you've spent time on other people too and your content is reasonable and you make sense and all, but you only seem to consider the blatantly bad posts as scum.

No matter how "easy" a case looks, if something looks bad to me I'm going to go after it. I spend "a lot of time" explaining all my cases, no matter how "obvious" it is that people are bad because if I'm going to make a case I'm going to damn well back up my case 100%. Darros doesn't play a lot of games and I don't even remember the last time I played with him, it's not like I know his meta or what he does. I don't think FFM's scum hunting or comments read town. We don't have to be in agreement about this, obviously, but am I scum for not seeing his actions as townie?

[Prims]

BBM: "why would i do this thing that would make me look townie if i were scum"

are you for real

[bladescape]

Okay I'm getting some mixed reads and won't have time to properly go over them right now so:

##Unvote

For those that are wondering why I'm inactive, it's the second last week of Uni for this semester and I'm under a crapton of work. I should be able to get some proper reads out on the weekend but again, that won't be much activity because I'll probably spend my time studying for the final exams the next week. After that it's holidays so I'll finally have time.

[Shin]

"I heard that BBM fella wasn't even on the list, what a numpty. Perhaps he was too busy watching cowboy films to be written down. That sounds about right, mind you, he wouldn't say no to a few bangers in his mash!"

Also a quick reminder for people to keep things civil, a degree of courtesy is required in a jolly old game like this! Kay has also been prodded!

FFM (4): Boron, Darros, Shinori, Junko
Boron (2): Poly, Paperblade
Makaze (2): j00, Walrein
Paperblade (2): Prims, Makaze
Cam (1): FFM
Junko (1): Cam
Psych (1): BBM

Not voting: Psych, Kay, bladescape

[Shin]

Big Ben says there's 31 and a little hours remaining this phase! 6 are required for a,lynch, 10 to hammer! The phase ends on 12/6 at 23:00 GMT+0!

[Darros]

@Darros: Upon reading your ISO, I have to take back what I said earlier. Most all of your actions since I started defending my vote on you have been pro-town, notably seen here (calling out scummy lurking) and here (giving logical advice and counters). I have one question.

Why aren't you trusting your gut with FFM (that he's using his town meta) when you have other reads; why haven't you voted me despite your red flags? Is FFM's behavior just that scummy or what?

Easy. When it comes to FFM, I've only ever played with him as town. I don't know if he acts any different as mafia, and his actions still are scummy, regardless of what alignment he may be. Getting townreads outed is Really Bad. His attitude isn't helping his case, and it looks like a potential WIFOM. I'm kind of annoyed at it though.

[FrostyFireMage]

How appropriate would a claim at this point in time be? I'd like to know before making a content post.

[BBM]

@j00- I know it was a lot of gut cases; I wanted to get out most of my thoughts before what I thought would be my death, and gut and meta is basically 90% of what I rely on before any flips. I also don't know where you're getting passive aggression from in my recent posts. I also wasn't retaliatory towards Junko for saying the exact same thing about me that Prims did pretty much so I don't see how my Prims case must be retaliatory scum and not town thinking that the person casing them is scum.

I also legit get way more irritated as scum getting vigged than town getting vigged- ask Paperblade if you want about how much I complained that he wanted to vig me in Spellcard. As town getting vigged I'm annoyed at the person vigging me for not giving me a chance to defend myself, but more annoyed at myself for appearing to be scum despite actually being town. As scum I'm not really as annoyed at myself because I was scum anyways, so I'm just left with the frustration of not having been able to defend myself.

BBM: "why would i do this thing that would make me look townie if i were scum"

are you for real

except if the reads in my listpost are half-baked and they suck I get cased on for having shitty reads, so no, making a listpost doesn't really make you look townie if the listpost sucks.

Not down with Boron lynch at all. j00's case sucks because she's talking about how Boron's making cases on blatantly bad people like FFM even though her own strongest scumread is Makaze, who isn't really very much better than FFM in that way. Additionally I have a leaning-bad/bad opinion on almost everyone who's cased Boron at any point other than Cam and I guess Makaze, and other than j00 it's all for things not even related to Boron.

[Darros]

I don't think a claim is appropriate now. You're not close to hammer and we still have over a full day in this phase.

[Shinori]

Yeh don't claim.

Just respond to people and do a lil scum hunting and jazz!

Like answer mah questions <3

[Paperblade]

Similar to the last 24 hours, I'm likely not going to be around much for the next 24 hours due to real life issues.

[Makaze]

Makaze: You've been defining stuff like scummy/town behavior rigidly and has been pointing out how your own actions are on the townie side, and spent most of your time defending yourself and asking why you would do this as scum. Your last post is okay, and contains more scum hunting than most of your other posts, but you've spent a long time defending your own points in a rather confusing way, and are now self-depreciating about your own cases and votes.

All of what I'm saying makes sense to me when I say it, except maybe the self-deprecating. I guess I have some odd ideas about how the game works. Not sure what to say aside from that.

Similar to the last 24 hours, I'm likely not going to be around much for the next 24 hours due to real life issues.

If this is going to be consistent, why not ask for a sub?

@Poly, Kay and whoever else: Time is a'wasting.

[FrostyFireMage]

I'm going to bed soon, might as well try to catch some hours of sleep.

FFM's vote on me is shitty. He doesn't explain how what I'm doing is worse or any different than what most other people in this game are doing. This feels especially hypocritical when he himself doesn't give much of a read on anyone else whose posts he is not "picking away at". I also saw him looking at the thread after I made my original response and my response to bladescape. No answer to my question?

Makaze could be scum. I can see some scum intent in his posts and actions (and I'm still not sure if I buy the "reaction test"). The only reason I haven't voted him yet is that stupid nagging feeling that because he's new he could still be town with either terrible logic or way of getting things done.

Darros still owes me a response when he gets back to see this, and I still think his actions are scummy.

Paper feels strangely passive, like an observer and not really pushing and trying to get things done. It's setting off some alarm bells for me, but the passivity is all I have.

Everyone else I'm either fine with so far or hasn't posted enough for me to have an actual read on them.

##Unvote

##Vote: FFM

Darros can wait for now. FFM singling out one player for something others are doing and dodging my response when he has seen it and was looking at the thread is questionable.

Also, if you're going to make comments about players then you'd better be able to back them up. You called Darros slightly defensive in RVS and his unvote weird. But is he scummy? Are you going to give Makaze and Walrein complete passes just because they're newbies? (Is Walrein even a newbie to mafia or just new to SF?) Why does Junko feel town? You sound noncommittal in your "reads", are too quick to dismiss new players doing things that are suspicious just because they're new, and barely explained shit. That is scummy.

(Don't give players a complete pass just because they're new! There's a very big difference in saying, "a player is new, so even though they're doing scummy thing I won't hold it against them" and "I find what this player is doing scummy, but they're new and right now I don't know how to call it". You appear to be doing the former, which is a big NO.)

- No, I don't find Darros particularly scummy for his early actions. The over-reaction to his vote-unvote in RVS was unnecessary and felt like people were eager to get the game going and he explained his actions well. Although his vote on me felt like he was being opportunistic (i.e voting for the most safe option).

- Likewise, I don't see Makaze being scummy because it was RVS. Walrein I'm feeling scummy vibes from at the moment - his post was sheepish on a player's RVS post, and then later he defends it by saying "it was a pressure vote", which sounds like he's trying to clear it up quickly without explaining his actions in detail. Sounds like odd behavior for a new player and I don't think I'll let it slide.

- Junko seems towny to me because meta: the last game I played with him he was generally sheepy and inactive and turned out to be scum. The fact that he seems to be participating (rather clumsily thanks to trying to build a case around an RVS post) felt like a good sign to me (if he were scum I'd imagine he would be more unsure and less inclined to make controversial posts due to meta).

Shinori, Poly and j00 have barely posted, Shinori not even once

##Vote Shinori

A prodvote? Srsly? Too lazy to scumhunt? Unsure if scummy or just slack.

Fuck quotes I'll just post the stuff I've been putting down in my notes. Also this turned out to be a massive wall post once I got to typing. Here's to hoping I don't do this again.

Agree with Cam's #31 and I dislike Junko.

WRT to junko saying "He never voted Darros." He never said you did vote darros. HE said you jumped on him. You are applying pressure to someone who simply unvoted a nexus claim. Whereas I feel Darros should have voted someone else I agree with his unvote and I would have unvoted as well had I been voting for Cam at that time. At that point in time in the game we don't know anything and a scum!nexus would not have claimed for sake of fucking over other people's roles. A town!Nexus would claim. And an SK!nexus could go either way. Therefore at that point in time a claimed nexus is more likely to be plausible town or at least not lynch worthy than someone else. Yes he could be scum or sk but we can get to that point in a bit. >Logic. I believe that handles mostly all of the early game shenanigans between Junko and Darros and Cam in my eyes.

Dislike Makaze's vote on Cam and disagree with it for reasons stated above. Also Makaze's two posts don't sit well with me at the moment.

I agree with most of Boron's thoughts in post #38 because of the whole voting issue, but I feel like Junko is a better target for a vote at this point in time than Darros.

Agree with Cam's #42 and it covers reasons for why I dislike Junko at the moment as well.

Kay's random appearance at #46 doing absolutely nothing... PLEASE COME BACK AND DO SOMETHING CAUSE AS OF THIS MOMENT THIS WAS ALL YOU DID.

Once again I agree with Boron's logic in her post, it's very sound. Would sheep if I wouldn't have already been voting someone else had I been here.

WRT Makaze #53: Calling people out early game is not unnatural. And the call out wasn't wrong. Cam called out junko for jumping onto Darros for simply unvoting Cam. He didn't call him out for not replacing a vote or anything. He called him out for unvoting someone who was more likely to be town at that point in time than someone else. These posts still aren't sitting well with me. A few people are stating my bad vibes I have about Makaze and already asking them so I shouldn't have to do that.

Makaze #83 is kinda bad and also states a lot of the stuff he continues to state over again. I disagree with the cam stuff as already stated. And there is defientely enough content to vote someone else. The part saying there isn't enough content to vote someone else really throws me off and I don't like it. However Makaze is new so I'm trying to give him some leeway at the moment.

>Insert FFM quote wall: Only to really post a vote on Boron, our numbers claim, for reasons that he himself is guilty of, as well as other players. It honestly to me looks like he personally had more of an issue with Walrein than anyone else, which was basically the only real thought he gave on someone besides boron. DISLIKE. P.S. WRT #101 Scum can't just guess if there is a third party in the game or not.

Boron going ham on FFM. I agree with pretty much all of her statements here as I also stated some above. BBM also posts shortly after with good points on FFM.

INSERT FFM WALL OF DOOM. It gives a few reads but other than that it looked like it was just a reread of the thread with a few of his thoughts amongst it. A lot of which wasn't needed. Stating Paper's joke post was a joke post and stuff like that is just needless quotes that are going to make people like me look at the long wall of quotes and text and GO RIGHT OVER IT CAUSE FUCK READING ALL THAT. Luckily it wasn't really that big. And he ended it with a vote on cam who of which I think is town so.....minus brownie points.

To answer the question as to where I've been. Yesterday I was playing Wildstar all day! Then I apparently slept for like 11~ hours for god knows what reason. Sorry bout that.

Still dislike junko who is apparently sitting on an RVS vote on me and yeah I still don't like his early game.

Current reads and stuff:

FFM > Junko > Darros > Makaze > Other people > Cam > Boron > Me

SO YEAH.

##Vote: FFM

Why is Cam scum besides his junko vote being bad to you? Like all you state about him is this:

You also quoted him twice of which neither quote really pointed out anything you found super bad. One time you quoted him you were talking about junko for that line saying he is probably newbie town, even though he's played enough games to not be newbie town.

SO YEAH LETS GET DOWN TO THIS. Why is cam scum outside of his junko vote? Why is his junko vote REALLY that bad? Do you think his vote solely warrants scum intent? What do you think about FFM's claimed nexus role WRT your read on him being scum?

@Junko: WHO IS SCUM? You've been sitting on an RVS vote on me all of the day phase while having plenty of opportunities to vote someone else. ALSO:

The important part about the bold in the quote above is that Sangyul and Walrein are voting for better reasons. When you talked about Darros you really only had mentioned his unvote. You didn't ACTUALLY talk about how he didn't revote for someone else. Example:

Therefore their votes look much better and much stronger than your vote does.

So like yeah, Junko, you need some reads. Going through your ISO doesn't really reveal who you think is scum or anything really. It just reveals that you seem to dislike Darros but never vote him then you get into arguments with people and defend yourself and that's it.

@Darros: Early on Darros really doesn't do much of anything. I agree with his unvote on cam cause I woulda done the same thing. Disagree with the fact that it was an empty unvote and that he never followed up on anything else until his FFM vote. Why did you choose to only just now drop a vote on someone? Was there any real reason for that? Throughout most of the day phase that's happened so far, like pages 2-6, who were your scumreads? Who would you have voted had that been near phase end? Also according to your most recent post with your vote and what I think are reads in it, your top scum reads are Psych, Boron, and Bladescape? Two of which are pretty inactive and haven't done much. Could you explain more as to why Psych and Bladescape are scummier than other people in the game thread? P.S. I actually see your point on psych randomly voting me but I'm also biased cause he's voting me. I'd just like to know why you think they are more likely to be scum than other people in the game at the moment.

And I don't have as much to say about Makaze as I did the others. I really disliked how he spent most of the day just voting Cam and pushing Cam for what I feel are poor reasons. I also don't really have any important questions for Makaze as of the moment. But I'll probably come back to this later.

- Cam's vote seemed scummy to me because he seemed to jump on Junko (who I think is town) after making only two short posts beforehand (seemed hypocritical) which felt like he was trying to coast on Junko's poor vote and then pursuing Junko for some time afterwards. And then he mentioned he would support the lynching of me just mostly because quoteattitudeproblemsendquote which looks like he was trying to get an easy mislynch.

##Unvote Shinori

idk why i was scummy for voting shinori, especially considering most of the arguements today

they're all basically x is scummy for voting this person over this person and I don't really like that

if the numbers claimed 12/3/1 and the third party is an sk instead of something like a survivor, that just feels like a lot of kills possible. giving the sk a nexus and the possiblity of a vig or something in town makes me really concerned about the possible amount of kills in a short amount of time

but isn't that what mafia basically is in its entirety

I need to go out in a bit but first responses:

People don't think you're scummy because you didn't hop on a popular wagon and therefore it's "contrary." They think you're scummy because the reasons you gave for your vote on me were terrible.

I don't understand why Cam's vote on Junko was hypocritical, please explain. Why is Junko jumping on someone's case only to retreat later something only eager noob!town would do? Why is his defensiveness reading more town to you than scum? Also, it's like you completely missed my response to Paper where I answered his post.

It honestly came off to me like you unvoted because of his claim. But anyway … voting people who are not around when the game is actually going is a waste of time. RVS posts are RVS posts and you use them to get reactions and hopefully break out of RVS. The reason I had such a problem with you not putting a vote on anyone else after unvoting Cam is because it looked like you were content to say, "cool, I RVS voted Cam he said something and now I'm done with RVS".

Also, RVS votes are only as "completely useless" as you want them to be. These "completely useless" votes on people have completely broken us out of RVS every time. It's better to put it on someone instead of just not having it anywhere completely.

FFM, saying that you're going to sub out if you keep getting voted for is AtE, a terrible attitude, and makes me not want to play any more games with you or let you play in mine.

- Like I said, it felt like Cam was jumping on Junko's case after Junko jumped on Darros' case. Simple.

- Junko's contribution seemed like a turn-around from his hesitant sheepy scumplay in TF. Is meta not a suitable reason?

BBM why am I "okay" instead of scum now? also answer my question please.

Pascal's vote on Sangyul was not good considering he didn't even bother to give examples where Sangyul was doing this "nitpicking,"

Alot has been already said about Pascal but I am not sure what his stance on me is? Like in some posts he says me jumping on to darros was scummy but then later uh seems to defends my actions I believe. If you do seem to think I "jumped on darros" as you imply then why are you mad at cam for voting me for that reason. Also your townread on darros seems to rely much too much on "he should know this stuff in rvs therefore townie," It seems to me that you are trying to justify darro's actions as townie when it seemed to imply that you thought he was scummy at the beginning. This seems to be the reason you townread on me as well.

His cam vote is pretty flimsy considering he made ONE vote and that is all it seems to rely on. Even if I agree the vote on me was bad it was not enough to telltale scum or town instantly. Hell you could say you pascal is jumping on to cam for the vote on me which he calls hypocrisy. Why wasn't your scumread on cam pointed out far earlier FFM?

## Unvote

##Vote FFM

because lack of enthusaism and general skimming. It's not like I'm the only one guilty of that.

i thought it would be best if I at least contribute instead of running the risk of being branded as inactive scum and hurting town's chances of winning. Guess that was a bad decision

but right now after viewing Walrein's reasoning for his sheepy vote he's looking more scummy to me than Cam right now

bascially right now it's Walrein > Cam > Psych

##Unvote

##Vote: Walrein

watch people vote me because having a change of opinion is not allowed

[Psych]

I am down with wagonning Paper because if he's scum we lynch scum and if he's town he has to actually do something.

I still don't buy that town!BBM would have reacted like my jokevig was real, and if he did, I imagine he would've been a lot more irritated about it.

Psych needs to elaborate on what the difference between "I don't like what they're doing" and "I think they're scummy" is. His remark about Pascal was worded like he thought Pascal had questionable intent.

@Mod: BBM isn't on the playerlist (for once). Is this intentional?

My reads have been all messed up this game. It's basically what I think is a negative action/arguement/whatever versus what I think is actually scummy like sheeping or lurking or whatever. I'd kind of contribute this to my not playing much in a while but I'm just kind of a mess with my signs.

Ugh the amount of AtE in this game is annoying

Makaze: You've been defining stuff like scummy/town behavior rigidly and has been pointing out how your own actions are on the townie side, and spent most of your time defending yourself and asking why you would do this as scum. Your last post is okay, and contains more scum hunting than most of your other posts, but you've spent a long time defending your own points in a rather confusing way, and are now self-depreciating about your own cases and votes.

I don't like this post, because after reading Makaze's post I got a very good town feeling from him, and this makes it seem like j00 is trying to throw suspicion on Makaze for being doubtful and not wanting to push a read. I'm not exactly doing the same thing, and yet he's not feeling the same about me.

I imagine I would have been a lot more irritated if I was actually scum, but okay. Not really sure why I assumed it was real looking back at it. Best explanation is probably that I was tired. My thoughts in that post are kind of all over the place because I thought I was going to die before I woke up and just wanted to get everything out.

If I was actually scum who thought you were gambitting, why would I react at all past the initial lmao? The best reaction for scum to dayvig shots is to completely ignore them and act as if nothing happened.

And btw you have shot people D1 for the funnies (Snooping Around) so yes I could believe that you would shoot someone D1 whom you thought was scum but didn't want to actually push the case for it.

I don't like this post either, because it feels like BBM isn't addressing one person directly for most of it and just talking rhetorically. It feels like scum trying to say things like "well i'm obviously not scum because xyz"

I agree with j00 that BBM's posts are a bit strange, so BBM is higher on my scum read list, but I also don't like j00 so I don't know how to lean on that or if it's messing with me read.

j00 keeps arguing with Sangyul about a lot of silly reasons for town actions. He complains about her going for an easy case and brings up how FFM had a similar thing yet hardly condemns him. ##Vote j00

I don't like the 'reaction test' thing either, but Cam doesn't seem to want to let it go, especially considering no one else has even barely mentioned Junko. It just feels to me like he's tunnel visioning too hard, and ignoring other people who might be scummier.

I just read the votals and am confused, because the part I bolded from BBM makes me wonder why he sees Walrein as a possible thing but then is voting me.

[Psych]

oh and if i didn't answer prims question it's basically j00 and bbm are my big reads right now, but I think sangyul is town

[BBM]

I was addressing both j00 and Prims so I guess it's not directed at one person, no, but even if that meant I was talking rhetorically, which I wasn't at least for the bolded part, that doesn't explain why speaking rhetorically means I'm scum defending myself rather than town defending myself.

Also you're literally admitting that you're not actually looking for things that are scummy. Why is that?

The bolded part was addressed to Prims, not Walrein so ??? Afaicr all I've said about Walrein is that his first vote seemed too sheepy to be scum and then that the person most likely to address how good Walrein is at NOC could be scum himself.

I believe that Paperblade legitimately has irl issues but I also believe he's scum at this point. The irl issues are probably what caused his first few posts to be so sheepy and worse than normal. Would lynch if Psych wagon doesn't become a thing, probably over FFM right now because his last post was okay except for the last line (the AtE in every single post is grating).

Boron- what do you think about me?

[MRDRHAWK]

sorry guys I have zero motivation right now and am dealing with some significant irl issues

##Requesting Sub

[SB.]

If anyone is willing to sub, drop me and/or Shin a pm.

[SB.]

HEY WE NEED ANOTHER ONE NOW

POSSIBLY NOT AFTER ALL

Edited June 11, 2014 by SB.

[SB.]

Elieson subs in for Polydeuces.

[Darros]

Although his vote on me felt like he was being opportunistic (i.e voting for the most safe option).

This seems somewhat OMGUS-y to me but I might be biased.

- Likewise, I don't see Makaze being scummy because it was RVS. Walrein I'm feeling scummy vibes from at the moment - his post was sheepish on a player's RVS post, and then later he defends it by saying "it was a pressure vote", which sounds like he's trying to clear it up quickly without explaining his actions in detail. Sounds like odd behavior for a new player and I don't think I'll let it slide.

Honestly when it comes to Makaze his ((correct me if I'm wrong with pronouns svp)) earlygame didn't seem scummy to me, but the more I read him lately the worse it seems. I'd disagree on Walrein, but there's not enough content from him for me to formulate a proper opinion. I'll read his ISO after I post this though. I don't think Walrein is new to mafia though, just new to SF.

- Junko's contribution seemed like a turn-around from his hesitant sheepy scumplay in TF. Is meta not a suitable reason?

Meta is fine but it shouldn't be your entire argument against someone.

[Darros]

omg eli <3

[SB.]

FFM (4): Boron, Darros, Shinori, Junko
Boron (2): Elieson, Paperblade
Makaze (2): j00, Walrein
Paperblade (2): Prims, Makaze
Junko (1): Cam
Psych (1): BBM
Walrein (1): FFM
j00 (1): Psych

Not voting: Kay, bladescape

You have 24 hours left in the day.