British Mafia - Game Over! Britain Wins!

[Darros]

I'm waiting for something relevant. I don't have anything to reply to your post, so I'm waiting for more. It'd be cool if Shinori would post, less he's been reading for hours on end.

[Shinori]

ITS A REALLY BIG WALL OKAY DARROS.

FUCK.

[Shinori]

Fuck quotes I'll just post the stuff I've been putting down in my notes. Also this turned out to be a massive wall post once I got to typing. Here's to hoping I don't do this again.

Agree with Cam's #31 and I dislike Junko.

WRT to junko saying "He never voted Darros." He never said you did vote darros. HE said you jumped on him. You are applying pressure to someone who simply unvoted a nexus claim. Whereas I feel Darros should have voted someone else I agree with his unvote and I would have unvoted as well had I been voting for Cam at that time. At that point in time in the game we don't know anything and a scum!nexus would not have claimed for sake of fucking over other people's roles. A town!Nexus would claim. And an SK!nexus could go either way. Therefore at that point in time a claimed nexus is more likely to be plausible town or at least not lynch worthy than someone else. Yes he could be scum or sk but we can get to that point in a bit. >Logic. I believe that handles mostly all of the early game shenanigans between Junko and Darros and Cam in my eyes.

Dislike Makaze's vote on Cam and disagree with it for reasons stated above. Also Makaze's two posts don't sit well with me at the moment.

I agree with most of Boron's thoughts in post #38 because of the whole voting issue, but I feel like Junko is a better target for a vote at this point in time than Darros.

Agree with Cam's #42 and it covers reasons for why I dislike Junko at the moment as well.

Kay's random appearance at #46 doing absolutely nothing... PLEASE COME BACK AND DO SOMETHING CAUSE AS OF THIS MOMENT THIS WAS ALL YOU DID.

Once again I agree with Boron's logic in her post, it's very sound. Would sheep if I wouldn't have already been voting someone else had I been here.

WRT Makaze #53: Calling people out early game is not unnatural. And the call out wasn't wrong. Cam called out junko for jumping onto Darros for simply unvoting Cam. He didn't call him out for not replacing a vote or anything. He called him out for unvoting someone who was more likely to be town at that point in time than someone else. These posts still aren't sitting well with me. A few people are stating my bad vibes I have about Makaze and already asking them so I shouldn't have to do that.

Makaze #83 is kinda bad and also states a lot of the stuff he continues to state over again. I disagree with the cam stuff as already stated. And there is defientely enough content to vote someone else. The part saying there isn't enough content to vote someone else really throws me off and I don't like it. However Makaze is new so I'm trying to give him some leeway at the moment.

>Insert FFM quote wall: Only to really post a vote on Boron, our numbers claim, for reasons that he himself is guilty of, as well as other players. It honestly to me looks like he personally had more of an issue with Walrein than anyone else, which was basically the only real thought he gave on someone besides boron. DISLIKE. P.S. WRT #101 Scum can't just guess if there is a third party in the game or not.

Boron going ham on FFM. I agree with pretty much all of her statements here as I also stated some above. BBM also posts shortly after with good points on FFM.

INSERT FFM WALL OF DOOM. It gives a few reads but other than that it looked like it was just a reread of the thread with a few of his thoughts amongst it. A lot of which wasn't needed. Stating Paper's joke post was a joke post and stuff like that is just needless quotes that are going to make people like me look at the long wall of quotes and text and GO RIGHT OVER IT CAUSE FUCK READING ALL THAT. Luckily it wasn't really that big. And he ended it with a vote on cam who of which I think is town so.....minus brownie points.

To answer the question as to where I've been. Yesterday I was playing Wildstar all day! Then I apparently slept for like 11~ hours for god knows what reason. Sorry bout that.

Still dislike junko who is apparently sitting on an RVS vote on me and yeah I still don't like his early game.

Current reads and stuff:

FFM > Junko > Darros > Makaze > Other people > Cam > Boron > Me

SO YEAH.

##Vote: FFM

Why is Cam scum besides his junko vote being bad to you? Like all you state about him is this:

His vote on Junko felt like he was trying to take advantage of Junko's reaction to Darros' RVS escapade

You also quoted him twice of which neither quote really pointed out anything you found super bad. One time you quoted him you were talking about junko for that line saying he is probably newbie town, even though he's played enough games to not be newbie town.

SO YEAH LETS GET DOWN TO THIS. Why is cam scum outside of his junko vote? Why is his junko vote REALLY that bad? Do you think his vote solely warrants scum intent? What do you think about FFM's claimed nexus role WRT your read on him being scum?

@Junko: WHO IS SCUM? You've been sitting on an RVS vote on me all of the day phase while having plenty of opportunities to vote someone else. ALSO:

meh not happy with it. Your vote seems to imply that you accuse me of dwelling to much on darros unvoting to much. I don't really see how two questions is dwelling on something so much. I know you said you didn't have any other reads but would you mind at least giving a bit of thought on sangyul and walrein. You seem to say that the case on darros is because he made an empty unvote. Your scumread seems to imply that you scumread me for dwelling on darros to much. Sangyul and Walrein are placing their votes on Darros due to his voting/unvoting business. If you say that I dwelled on darros to much then by that logic sangyul and walrein are still dwelling on this. If according to you I was dwelling on darros to much what do you think of Sangyul and Walrein so far?

@paper just how, me and poly are nothing alike almost.

The important part about the bold in the quote above is that Sangyul and Walrein are voting for better reasons. When you talked about Darros you really only had mentioned his unvote. You didn't ACTUALLY talk about how he didn't revote for someone else. Example:

but then why vote in the first place if you plan to just backdown later on?

Therefore their votes look much better and much stronger than your vote does.

So like yeah, Junko, you need some reads. Going through your ISO doesn't really reveal who you think is scum or anything really. It just reveals that you seem to dislike Darros but never vote him then you get into arguments with people and defend yourself and that's it.

@Darros: Early on Darros really doesn't do much of anything. I agree with his unvote on cam cause I woulda done the same thing. Disagree with the fact that it was an empty unvote and that he never followed up on anything else until his FFM vote. Why did you choose to only just now drop a vote on someone? Was there any real reason for that? Throughout most of the day phase that's happened so far, like pages 2-6, who were your scumreads? Who would you have voted had that been near phase end? Also according to your most recent post with your vote and what I think are reads in it, your top scum reads are Psych, Boron, and Bladescape? Two of which are pretty inactive and haven't done much. Could you explain more as to why Psych and Bladescape are scummier than other people in the game thread? P.S. I actually see your point on psych randomly voting me but I'm also biased cause he's voting me. I'd just like to know why you think they are more likely to be scum than other people in the game at the moment.

And I don't have as much to say about Makaze as I did the others. I really disliked how he spent most of the day just voting Cam and pushing Cam for what I feel are poor reasons. I also don't really have any important questions for Makaze as of the moment. But I'll probably come back to this later.

[Psych]

##Unvote Shinori

idk why i was scummy for voting shinori, especially considering most of the arguements today

they're all basically x is scummy for voting this person over this person and I don't really like that

fwiw Boron's numbers claim is townie in this context because 12/3/1 is not a "standard" numbers split for a 16p game; I would expect 12/4 or 11/4/1 even, depending on town strength. So I feel like telling town of this is a legitimate reason for a town Numbers (most scum Numbers are just shoehorned in for an easy scum fake). It tells us that we can expect a fairly strong scumteam, rolewise.

WRT to junko saying "He never voted Darros." He never said you did vote darros. HE said you jumped on him. You are applying pressure to someone who simply unvoted a nexus claim. Whereas I feel Darros should have voted someone else I agree with his unvote and I would have unvoted as well had I been voting for Cam at that time. At that point in time in the game we don't know anything and a scum!nexus would not have claimed for sake of fucking over other people's roles. A town!Nexus would claim. And an SK!nexus could go either way. Therefore at that point in time a claimed nexus is more likely to be plausible town or at least not lynch worthy than someone else. Yes he could be scum or sk but we can get to that point in a bit. >Logic. I believe that handles mostly all of the early game shenanigans between Junko and Darros and Cam in my eyes.

if the numbers claimed 12/3/1 and the third party is an sk instead of something like a survivor, that just feels like a lot of kills possible. giving the sk a nexus and the possiblity of a vig or something in town makes me really concerned about the possible amount of kills in a short amount of time

[FrostyFireMage]

I'm going to bed now. If I keep on getting voted I'm totally subbing out.

[Darros]

@Darros: Early on Darros really doesn't do much of anything. I agree with his unvote on cam cause I woulda done the same thing. Disagree with the fact that it was an empty unvote and that he never followed up on anything else until his FFM vote. Why did you choose to only just now drop a vote on someone? Was there any real reason for that? Throughout most of the day phase that's happened so far, like pages 2-6, who were your scumreads? Who would you have voted had that been near phase end? Also according to your most recent post with your vote and what I think are reads in it, your top scum reads are Psych, Boron, and Bladescape? Two of which are pretty inactive and haven't done much. Could you explain more as to why Psych and Bladescape are scummier than other people in the game thread? P.S. I actually see your point on psych randomly voting me but I'm also biased cause he's voting me. I'd just like to know why you think they are more likely to be scum than other people in the game at the moment.

I voted someone as soon as I woke up. I went to bed at like midnight last night and slept until 12:15ish today. That was why it took so long to make a post, and because of that same reason I had no real scumreads page 2-6, as when I went to bed it was the end of page 2, and when I woke up it was page 6. I posted when I got up. Closer to phase end, well it's hard to say, but I probably would've stuck with FFM, but other factors such as actually getting a lynch in would help. NL = No god on day 1. My top scum reads are Psych, FFM, and Bladescape. Not Boron. I don't think she's scum. She's wrong because I'm not scum but I think she's townie :P. Bladescape isn't really a big one, just someone that I have to watch. I noted that in my post, his first post seems kind of unwell, to be frank, but I'll wait until I see more from him until I make a proper decision. Psych has been on, and he's made intermittent posts through the day, and he's pushing prods after we've already passed what seemed to be the RVS of the day instead of posting anything of substance. Yet he's been here, so he should be able to form reads or at least something by now.

And FFM, I can see your post, I know that it's irritating to get voted all the time, but you have to understand other people are finding your actions scummy. Nobody is voting you because "lol FFM". Subbing out would just be a display of bad sportsmanship. Push your cases and try to win the game, not just ragequit when things don't go your way..

[j00]

This game is already a mess to read, with people getting every other player wrong and conversations continued two posts later without referring to the original argument, so I'm just gonna post as I read and then vote in the end.

Unvotes in RVS is null, it's more likely to be someone who does RVS wrong according to SF/being new than some alignment tell. Not interested in Darros/Junko right now, Junko asks a lot of questions but I don't really see scum intent in them. The people who actually voted Darros for that are worse. I think Boron's putting too much significance on the unvote and Walrein's basically sheeping her.

case on Darros is literally "omg empty unvote"

I agree with Junko here, since you say Boron and Walrein's case is basically "omg empty unvote", why haven't you said anything about your stance on them?

[BBM]

Shinori are you hydra'ing with Eury?

[Sunwoo]

I need to go out in a bit but first responses:

Sigh. Since everything I ever do ever is "scummy" (hoping on a popular wagon? sheepy and therefore scummy! not hoping on any popular wagons? contrary and therefore scummy!) I guess I better attempt to make a comprehensive post by checking everything before I'm the target of a mislynch.

People don't think you're scummy because you didn't hop on a popular wagon and therefore it's "contrary." They think you're scummy because the reasons you gave for your vote on me were terrible.

I don't understand why Cam's vote on Junko was hypocritical, please explain. Why is Junko jumping on someone's case only to retreat later something only eager noob!town would do? Why is his defensiveness reading more town to you than scum? Also, it's like you completely missed my response to Paper where I answered his post.

I unvoted because Cam posted, not because of his claim. I clearly stated that here. And when I justified my unvote, it was only because you and Walrein had asked me to. From what I've been told in the past, voting people who are not around is "a waste of a vote", and like I'd said, nobody was online that hadn't posted in the thread. So why would I put down a completely useless vote, especially when I was like an hour from bed anyway?

It honestly came off to me like you unvoted because of his claim. But anyway … voting people who are not around when the game is actually going is a waste of time. RVS posts are RVS posts and you use them to get reactions and hopefully break out of RVS. The reason I had such a problem with you not putting a vote on anyone else after unvoting Cam is because it looked like you were content to say, "cool, I RVS voted Cam he said something and now I'm done with RVS".

Also, RVS votes are only as "completely useless" as you want them to be. These "completely useless" votes on people have completely broken us out of RVS every time. It's better to put it on someone instead of just not having it anywhere completely.

FFM, saying that you're going to sub out if you keep getting voted for is AtE, a terrible attitude, and makes me not want to play any more games with you or let you play in mine.

[j00]

I don't understand Makaze's vote on Cam at all??? He votes Cam basically using the argument "his vote was bad" and then elaborates, saying calling out people early is bad when he's also calling out Cam really early.

And then you say Cam made a mistake and backtrack claiming it was your own mistake and say you vote people for acting "out of the ordinary" while not explaining what kinda actions that would entail.

You also think Darros is bad and later shift the vote to him, still saying unvotes are bad and the fact that he hasn't defended himself as much as he should? You seem to self-conscious about unvoting, choosing to say "I'll change my vote later" rather than actually unvote, which is basically the same thing.

My good man, I can't say you are making much sense here.

[Darros]

Fair enough, Boron. I will say it's not so much as "I did my RVS vote now I'm done" as much as "Hey there's no one online to place a vote on really" but at this point I'm beating this horse to death.

watch me apply that logic next game and get called scummy for it

You also think Darros is bad and later shift the vote to him, still saying unvotes are bad and the fact that he hasn't defended himself as much as he should? You seem to self-conscious about unvoting, choosing to say "I'll change my vote later" rather than actually unvote, which is basically the same thing.

I don't understand the opinions of me in the game. Either I'm being way too defensive or not defensive enough. But you bring up a valid point on the idea of changing a vote later instead of actually unvoting. We still have plenty of time in the phase, if you don't plan on having your current votee lynched, you can just not vote them.

[Junk]

BBM why am I "okay" instead of scum now? also answer my question please.

Pascal's vote on Sangyul was not good considering he didn't even bother to give examples where Sangyul was doing this "nitpicking,"

Alot has been already said about Pascal but I am not sure what his stance on me is? Like in some posts he says me jumping on to darros was scummy but then later uh seems to defends my actions I believe. If you do seem to think I "jumped on darros" as you imply then why are you mad at cam for voting me for that reason. Also your townread on darros seems to rely much too much on "he should know this stuff in rvs therefore townie," It seems to me that you are trying to justify darro's actions as townie when it seemed to imply that you thought he was scummy at the beginning. This seems to be the reason you townread on me as well.

His cam vote is pretty flimsy considering he made ONE vote and that is all it seems to rely on. Even if I agree the vote on me was bad it was not enough to telltale scum or town instantly. Hell you could say you pascal is jumping on to cam for the vote on me which he calls hypocrisy. Why wasn't your scumread on cam pointed out far earlier FFM?

## Unvote

##Vote FFM

[Shinori]

Shinori are you hydra'ing with Eury?

Nope. Lol.

[j00]

wait I just realised 99% of my problems with Makaze

In fact, most of my actions are reaction tests.

basically Boron is right is when she explains why reaction tests suck, it let's you do weird random shit under the same excuse.

I wanted votals before placing a vote on someone who was getting a lot of heat because I was worried there might actually be a wagon on this one. If there is a wagon forming fast, some of the people voting for Darros are probably scum. I had to get some kind of votals before moving forward.

Now that I've got my votals, I feel more confident in the situation and I can vote.

##Unvote: Cam

##Vote: Darros

Would you really choose to not vote Darros if he had a wagon on him? Scum can be on anyone's wagon, including their buddys. You're basically saying you prefer to vote someone only a few people agree with you on?

[j00]

eh FFM's vote on Cam is bad and so is AtE, but tbh his reactions seems town to me and he appears to be genuinely scumhunting

as usual I have no idea what to make of Psych, Paper needs to post more than one-liner questions, and Kay, Walrein and bladescape has even less posts than me

Makaze is also waffling on FFM

##Unvote

##Vote: Makaze

tl;dr he seems to have a very rigid definition of what qualifies as weird/scummy play and a lot of his votes are "people aren't acting as they should"

I'll also read Shinori's wall properly soon but I don't think he'll convince me that he's worse than Makaze

[j00]

Haha nope I'm not in the mood to read a wall of text that mentions post numbers without linking to them, I'm off to partyyyyyyy. Toddle pip!

[Shinori]

Lolz. YEAH I DIDNT WANNA GO THROUGH THE EFFORT OF LINKING THEM. IM LAZY.

[MRDRHAWK]

A wall post without linking posts? How SCUMMY.

I'll do up a post later when I'm not feeling so repulsed at all the SCUM in here.

[Shin]

As you all argue about who's British or not, who has a classic 1898 teapot in the closet and who merely uses the kettle... such savages.

"I do say, I wouldn't say no to a little Earl Grey, would you, old bean? A true connissuer never washes their teapot, it allows it to collect its own unique flavour. Also, it gets rather grubby!"

FFM (5): Boron, Darros, BBM, Shinori, Junko

Darros (3): Walrein, Makaze, bladescape

Makaze (2): Prims, Paperblade, j00

Boron (1): Poly

Cam (1): FFM

Junko (1): Cam

Not voting: Psych, Kay

Big Ben tells us there are 47 and a bit remaining! The phase ends on 12/6 23:00 GMT+0! Remember, 6 is needed to lynch, 10 is a hammer!

[Shin]

Please donate money to "Mathematics for Brits", our shoddy education system has been stripped back so much that three names appear to add up to two!

FFM (5): Boron, Darros, BBM, Shinori, Junko

Darros (3): Walrein, Makaze, bladescape

Makaze (3): Prims, Paperblade, j00

Boron (1): Poly

Cam (1): FFM

Junko (1): Cam

Not voting: Psych, Kay

Big Ben tells us there are 47 hours remaining! The phase ends on 12/6 23:00 GMT+0! Remember, 6 is needed to lynch, 10 is a hammer!

[BBM]

@Junko- You put in a lot of effort into posts afterwards and it didn't look bad, so I unvoted. I don't think Boron or Walrein are scum currently. I disagree with the Darros votes but Boron put a lot more effort into explaining her's then anyone else and I like her other content. I would like Walrein to post more but I don't feel as if he'd sheep as blatantly as he did if he was scum.

Don't like FFM's recent posts. There's too much where he talks about scummy people stuff are doing and then dismisses it as newbtown without much of a reason. Junko's also played enough games that I'm not really sure he still classifies as newbtown anyways. I don't like how he singles out Cam for the Junko vote when other people also voted Junko for the same thing (eg me). AtE is probably a nulltell in the end because FFM probably has reason to be frustrated as either alignment, but it doesn't improve my opinion of him either.

Not liking Psych either; he completely misses the point of people attacking him for the Shinori vote. Prodvotes are dumb because people are going to post once they have time, not because one person votes them at some point. It's essentially fake content that isn't going to go anywhere because as soon as the person being prodded posts anything resembling content at all, the vote loses its meaning. I don't like the fearmongering about kills either; 12/3/1 is townsided looking at pure numbers. There was an 11/3/1 game that just ended where town pretty much wrecked. What determined the balance there and what will determine the balance here are roles- and we have no flips to work with at all. It's more fake content.

Psych might be worse than FFM actually; will have to consider more.

[Makaze]

I don't understand Makaze's vote on Cam at all??? He votes Cam basically using the argument "his vote was bad" and then elaborates, saying calling out people early is bad when he's also calling out Cam really early.

And then you say Cam made a mistake and backtrack claiming it was your own mistake and say you vote people for acting "out of the ordinary" while not explaining what kinda actions that would entail.

You also think Darros is bad and later shift the vote to him, still saying unvotes are bad and the fact that he hasn't defended himself as much as he should? You seem to self-conscious about unvoting, choosing to say "I'll change my vote later" rather than actually unvote, which is basically the same thing.

My good man, I can't say you are making much sense here.

Don't really know what else I can say at this point. While what I did may not have been smart, what makes you think there is scum intent behind it? You say I am making bad posts, but are they scummy posts?

My reason for 'waffling' FFM is that they did this exact same thing in the last game and still turned out to be town. They fit exactly what he did in the last game. I cannot tell a difference between their behavior as town and as scum, so I'm going with play that does make sense for my reads.

Darros, on the other hand, has done things that make sense from a scum perspective. They have done only things that make sense and have not put much pressure on people... Until FFM started acting erratically, then he voted FFM. This is the real kicker, as I explained in an earlier post. Read my ISO. If Sangyul's numbers are correct, then the scum cannot afford to lose a member on the first day. Bussing here is way too risky. Therefore, I have to pick one as my strongest read.

Between the two, I'm more inclined to believe that Darros is scum because his posts are both cautious and logical for scum to do. Let me make this clear so that I don't have to repeat myself to the sheep again: I am not voting Darros because what they did is "especially bad". I am voting Darros because I can get a more solid read on the intent behind his behavior.

I am more willing to mislynch on someone I am confident about than someone I am less confident about. There will be tomorrow if we lynch Darros and it's a wrong vote.

I'm also under heat so I have incentive to my thoughts out in case I'm mislynched. Some of you were not in my last game and don't have the time to bother reading FFM's behavior.

Bottom line, j00, I'd like you to explain how I profit as scum from my behavior.

I'd also really appreciate it if I could get that content I asked for: Prims, Paperblade, and others... Please chime in. Preferably addressing the intent you read behind things.

To hosts/bystanders: We need some updated votals, please.

[Makaze]

Or not on the votals; they appeared while writing. Thanks.

[Shin]

Just a note! A few people have been asking about their PR's! PR's are entirely optional despite what Role PM's imply, it's in the rules!

[Junk]

hmm i would say the reason for bbm switching me from scum to null is meh. effort isn't really determining of someones alignment whatsoever.