British Mafia - Game Over! Britain Wins!

[Grace]

not playing

it's like no one reads the playerlist

not playing

[BBM]

Kay was San for a while, so I guess that's a more reasonable mix-up than Paper's

It's not that I don't see the Makaze case, but the fact that it's on somebody playing their second game doesn't impress me. Yeah yeah newbs can be scum but

For Walrein and scrubs:

Poliwrath = Darros

Do Not Edit Posts Guy = Junko

Sangyul = Boron

CT075 = Cam

super tired; back in the morning

[BBM]

newbs can be scum but still don't feel like making that judgement call atm

[Psych]

bbm

bbm r u scum

[Junk]

meh not happy with it. Your vote seems to imply that you accuse me of dwelling to much on darros unvoting to much. I don't really see how two questions is dwelling on something so much. I know you said you didn't have any other reads but would you mind at least giving a bit of thought on sangyul and walrein. You seem to say that the case on darros is because he made an empty unvote. Your scumread seems to imply that you scumread me for dwelling on darros to much. Sangyul and Walrein are placing their votes on Darros due to his voting/unvoting business. If you say that I dwelled on darros to much then by that logic sangyul and walrein are still dwelling on this. If according to you I was dwelling on darros to much what do you think of Sangyul and Walrein so far?

@paper just how, me and poly are nothing alike almost.

[Junk]

fsr I thought junko and poly were the same dude

I feel like out of Darros/EDITS/Cam, Cam is most likely to be scum but it's not really a big lean any way, it's just "Well maybe he is scum trying to start something"

I don't think Darros or Edits did anything particularly bad, just did Not Optimal Things and Cam jumped on them

##Unvote, ##Vote: makaze since as I said I can see where Prims is coming from and the initial icebreak argument was Stupid

what is an "icebreak arugment"?

hmm so you disagree with makaze point now?

[Paperblade]

means it's non-RVS arguments even if they are kind of dumb

and I haven't actually made a post where I agreed makaze, I said I agreed because I was skimming then reread and changed my mind

[Makaze]

I know you are backing me here but WHAT is exactly is wrong with calling out someone.

explain

Cam's vote makes sense if you use context clues. Furthermore your vote is a dead-end because you never explain why him calling out Junko is "unnatural". Are Cam's recent posts better, still scummy, what? I don't know because you stopped posting until I switched my vote to you.

Also, in what way did Paper defend a "potential mafioso"? How was the way he did it harmful? I don't see an explanation for another user's actions in his post.

As far as I'm concerned you're presenting an alternate version of the thread to attack things.

Yeah, I don't quite understand Makaze's vote on Cam either or his comment to Paper about defending potential mafioso's actions. Makaze, please explain.

At that point, Cam had made a mistake. Not only had he called someone out in RVS, which no one else had done, but he did it on a false claim. He has yet to address this mistake.

There is not enough content to vote for anyone else.

In summary, I don't read him very strongly, but still more strongly than anyone else.

The thing to Paper was about his weird bandwagoning in response to questions about votes on Darros. I didn't take it very seriously and the question was answered explicitly here. I was not alone in asking about it.

Now to catch up with this thread properly.

[Junk]

At that point, Cam had made a mistake. Not only had he called someone out in RVS, which no one else had done, but he did it on a false claim. He has yet to address this mistake.

There is not enough content to vote for anyone else.

In summary, I don't read him very strongly, but still more strongly than anyone else.

The thing to Paper was about his weird bandwagoning in response to questions about votes on Darros. I didn't take it very seriously and the question was answered explicitly here. I was not alone in asking about it.

Now to catch up with this thread properly.

I thought his vote on me was because I was "jumping" on darros?

? What mistake has he made and what false claim?

I know you are backing me up here and saying that cam's vote was not the best but the justification for it does not make sense.

[Sunwoo]

At that point, Cam had made a mistake. Not only had he called someone out in RVS, which no one else had done, but he did it on a false claim. He has yet to address this mistake.

What's wrong with calling someone out in RVS? How do you propose the game break out of RVS if no one else ever called people out? And what's the false claim that he made? I don't believe you've specified what this false claim that Cam made is.

I really don't like this response.

[Makaze]

I thought his vote on me was because I was "jumping" on darros?

? What mistake has he made and what false claim?

I know you are backing me up here and saying that cam's vote was not the best but the justification for it does not make sense.

Aaaah. The mistake was mine. I read that post as saying 'voting on Darros'.

This is what I get for coding all day. I need to take a walk through the ISOs.

And now that I'm done...

What's wrong with calling someone out in RVS? How do you propose the game break out of RVS if no one else ever called people out? And what's the false claim that he made? I don't believe you've specified what this false claim that Cam made is.

I really don't like this response.

This is the same response I gave last game. I pressure the first person to make an out of the ordinary move. The first to stand out gets my vote every time. If you have a reason why I should not press forward with even the slightest reasons, please tell me. My last mentor did not give much advice about this.

From my perspective, I had already left RVS by seeing who stood out, even a little. From a Town perspective, I do not have anything to lose by doing this. My self-preservation is null.

I can tell you are trying to get me on the defensive, but there is no point.

Something has been bothering me about your confidence and tunneling on a lead I started. From my perspective, I should look worse than Darros. Why haven't you voted me yet, Sangyul?

[Junk]

Aaaah. The mistake was mine. I read that post as saying 'voting on Darros'.

This is what I get for coding all day. I need to take a walk through the ISOs.

And now that I'm done...

This is the same response I gave last game. I pressure the first person to make an out of the ordinary move. The first to stand out gets my vote every time. If you have a reason why I should not press forward with even the slightest reasons, please tell me. My last mentor did not give much advice about this.

From my perspective, I had already left RVS by seeing who stood out, even a little. From a Town perspective, I do not have anything to lose by doing this. My self-preservation is null.

I can tell you are trying to get me on the defensive, but there is no point.

Something has been bothering me about your confidence and tunneling on a lead I started. From my perspective, I should look worse than Darros. Why haven't you voted me yet, Sangyul?

how does the bold affect your read on cam

[Sunwoo]

This is the same response I gave last game. I pressure the first person to make an out of the ordinary move. The first to stand out gets my vote every time. If you have a reason why I should not press forward with even the slightest reasons, please tell me. My last mentor did not give much advice about this.

The question is WHY do you pressure the first person to make an out of the ordinary move? Is it JUST because it's out of the ordinary? Or is it because you see the scum intent in that move? You don't vote people JUST because they do something that differs from the norm, you vote because you feel that there is something in their intentions that has anti-town intent. Out of the ordinary =/= scummy.

Something has been bothering me about your confidence and tunneling on a lead I started. From my perspective, I should look worse than Darros. Why haven't you voted me yet, Sangyul?

You're new, and I'm not convinced enough that you're new scum over new town who's making decisions that look scummy. Darros, on the other hand, has been in enough mafia games to know how things work.

[Makaze]

The question is WHY do you pressure the first person to make an out of the ordinary move? Is it JUST because it's out of the ordinary? Or is it because you see the scum intent in that move? You don't vote people JUST because they do something that differs from the norm, you vote because you feel that there is something in their intentions that has anti-town intent. Out of the ordinary =/= scummy.

You're new, and I'm not convinced enough that you're new scum over new town who's making decisions that look scummy. Darros, on the other hand, has been in enough mafia games to know how things work.

No, I don't see scum intent behind it. It is just because it is out of the ordinary. It is fishing for reactions from people who act strangely. Like I said before, I didn't take it very seriously. We were nowhere near close to a wagon, so I don't see the harm in testing the waters.

I'd like your thoughts on the below, please.

how does the bold affect your read on cam

It's neutral. He has no scummy posts other than that one. Now that it looks less scummy, he's cleared (though not to the point of being confirmed town).

My top three reads right now are Darros, Paperblade and Sangyul. I have a bad feeling about Paperblade's less than attentive voting, but it's weak. Darros hasn't posted much despite some pretty heavy targeting and the initial behavior I called out, and that's scummy. He's my biggest read. Sangyul I suspect mostly because of her first post. I'm not sure what role gets to have knowledge of the set-up, but if it's a confirmed town role, she doesn't have a reason to let people know before we even have reads. This could be due to ignorance; if so, please correct.

I haven't changed votes yet because I'm still off balance from being gone half the day and coming back to a barrage of content that I can't digest between posts asking me things.

Can we get some votals, please?

[Sunwoo]

No, I don't see scum intent behind it. It is just because it is out of the ordinary. It is fishing for reactions from people who act strangely. Like I said before, I didn't take it very seriously. We were nowhere near close to a wagon, so I don't see the harm in testing the waters.

"Fishing for reactions" means you're doing a reaction test. Personally, I dislike "reaction tests" as an excuse because people can call anything a reaction test and get away with it.

I'd like your thoughts on the below, please.

Sangyul I suspect mostly because of her first post. I'm not sure what role gets to have knowledge of the set-up, but if it's a confirmed town role, she doesn't have a reason to let people know before we even have reads. This could be due to ignorance; if so, please correct.

It's called "numbers" and if you're a numbers or any other informed role, you're supposed to out your information immediately. Ask anyone else in this game.

Also, if Darros is your strongest scum read, why aren't you voting him?

[eclipse]

CLIPSEY VOTALS (unofficial, and I am prone to screwing these up in the games I host, so double-check things):

Boron: Poly

Cam: Makaze

Darros: Boron, Walrein

Junko: Cam, BBM

Makaze: Prims, Paperblade

Shinori: Junko

Walrein: j00, FFM, Psych

Not voting: Everyone else

(end unofficial votals by someone on the sub list)

[SB.]

I got cut while doing them, apparently. Thanks eclipse.

[Paperblade]

Boron, do you actually think Makaze and Darros are scum or are you just attacking them for making suboptimal plays?

[Makaze]

"Fishing for reactions" means you're doing a reaction test. Personally, I dislike "reaction tests" as an excuse because people can call anything a reaction test and get away with it.

It's called "numbers" and if you're a numbers or any other informed role, you're supposed to out your information immediately. Ask anyone else in this game.

Also, if Darros is your strongest scum read, why aren't you voting him?

Sorry, I've got nothing to say to that. That was my intent, like it was my intent last game. In fact, most of my actions are reaction tests. I guess I'll know to lie lower next time until I have a reliable read.

If you had finished reading the post...

I haven't changed votes yet because I'm still off balance from being gone half the day and coming back to a barrage of content that I can't digest between posts asking me things.

Can we get some votals, please?

It's because I don't have an accurate read of the circumstances. Even if my read on Darros is strong, my read on others is weak. I wanted votals before placing a vote on someone who was getting a lot of heat because I was worried there might actually be a wagon on this one. If there is a wagon forming fast, some of the people voting for Darros are probably scum. I had to get some kind of votals before moving forward.

Now that I've got my votals, I feel more confident in the situation and I can vote.

##Unvote: Cam

##Vote: Darros

[Sunwoo]

Boron, do you actually think Makaze and Darros are scum or are you just attacking them for making suboptimal plays?

I think Darros is scum.

Makaze I'm less confident about. I feel his actions are scummy, but I can also see why new!town would do the things he's doing and would rather not rush into making a call on a new player I'm trying to figure out.

@Makaze: So I skimmed over the explanation for why you didn't actually vote Darros yet, oops. If you were worried that there was a wagon on him, though, why not just look through the pages yourself to see how many people are voting him?

[Makaze]

I think Darros is scum.

Makaze I'm less confident about. I feel his actions are scummy, but I can also see why new!town would do the things he's doing and would rather not rush into making a call on a new player I'm trying to figure out.

@Makaze: So I skimmed over the explanation for why you didn't actually vote Darros yet, oops. If you were worried that there was a wagon on him, though, why not just look through the pages yourself to see how many people are voting him?

Because it's 3:00 AM, I spent the last several hours coding, and was already facing questions from multiple people at once. Every time I've gone to look at an a new page or ISO since I got back, there's been another question or accusation to reply to. I figured someone else could get votals while I gather my wits. Thank you, by the way, eclipse.

I'm going to go bed and come at this with fresh eyes tomorrow. Don't burn down the forest while I'm gone.

[FrostyFireMage]

Nexus huh? That's one I haven't played with before.

##Unvote

This sudden Unvote seemed pretty weird, especially since it was RVS and nobody really makes any committed votes/votes with serious intent.

It's called Random Vote Stage for a reason, Cam is here ((I knew he was online when I voted him)) and has posted. I don't actually see him as scum or town at the moment, but he's been here and I no longer have a reason to vote him.

Slightly defensive. In RVS, even.

Very well; this person was merely prodding.

Bringing attention to a person's action and then dropping it immediately? However, he's new so I won't hold it against him.

but then why vote in the first place if you plan to just backdown later on?

RVS, son. I would've thought you were used to it.

First of all, I'm assuming Darros is Poliwrath?

Secondly, I agree with the above poster in that while the unvote itself wasn't really all that suspect (though it was a bit premature), the fact that he left his vote on nobody makes it seem like he's trying to avoid pissing people off. In my experience, mafioso tend to try to avoid confrontation in an attempt to not get people mad enough to lynch them.

I also don't like how the only defense he's attempted is "it's RVS"

##Unvote

##Vote Poliwrath

Why did you choose not to vote for another user after unvoting?

It feels like Walrein is just sheeping a vote and only repeating what other people have said. I'm guessing he's but a naive newbie, however.

hmm I am not sure about darros. I actually disagree with the fact that we are voting darros because he didn't vote someone else because who could you vote at the time unless you mean an rvs vote. I agree that I was curious about his sudden unvote but him not voting someone else isn't really what I would call scummy at least in this point of the game.

Backing down after seeming pretty focused on Darros? Change of heart, perhaps?

##Vote: Junko

this is a good vote; seemed way too intent on pushing Darros for fairly routine RVS stuff even though he's played enough games by now.

Prims why are you not interested in Junko/Darros?

He feels more like a clumsy townie to be honest.

It's not just because he made an empty unvote, BBM. The way he unvoted Cam made it sound like he did so because of Cam's claim, and I feel that he tried too hard to justify his unvote. That in combination with merely taking his vote off Cam and not trying to do anything else with it bugs me because it looks like he's making a token contribution to RVS without actually trying to move the game along.

Also, I think Psych means me instead of Kay in post #45.

Forgive my accusation (or don't, I don't care), or does it seem like Sangyul is mostly picking away at Junko/Darros/Makaze's posts without giving much of a read on anybody else?

##Unvote

##Vote: Sangyul

[Sunwoo]

Forgive my accusation (or don't, I don't care), or does it seem like Sangyul is mostly picking away at Junko/Darros/Makaze's posts without giving much of a read on anybody else?

##Unvote

##Vote: Sangyul

Okay then, why don't you give me your reads on everyone else in this game in that case first?

[bladescape]

Okay then, why don't you give me your reads on everyone else in this game in that case first?

I don't know if it's your bicycle out of control or you just didn't read, but Pascal stated several commentary-based reads just prior to his comments on you. Including highlighting my first target, being

VOTE: Poliwrath

Sorry if I missed something important, but nightbusses take it out of me, and I can't sleep on the bus, so I blame that for my comical incompetence if any is present.

[Sunwoo]

I don't know if it's your bicycle out of control or you just didn't read, but Pascal stated several commentary-based reads just prior to his comments on you.

Uh, bladescape, my point is that FFM is basically voting me over something that basically most people are doing. He says all I'm doing is picking away at three people's posts without giving a read on anyone else? Cool. How is that different or any more scummier that what other people are doing? Likewise, FFM himself has really only given an opinion on the same three people he accused me of "picking away at" plus Walrein, and didn't give a read on anyone else. So much of an improvement, right?