CYOU'RE - Game Over

[Refa]

OK, that's all I needed to know; we're not lynching Mancer today (sorry SB). I have my reasons for this.

[Bluedoom]

looking back an hour later the top of the post looks really weird because i initially put my vote at the top of it, oh well

complaints about lynching randa without a claim are dumb because none of his counterwagons had claimed either?

also randa wouldn't have claimed anyway because lol vegging

[Zkirsche]

Likely my only post before tomorrow.

Hate to break it to you, kirsche, but eclipse voting for people having bad play as opposed to scummy play is part of her town meta too.

I know she does it was town too which makes it even more annoying. There's nothing more irritating than having to look at blatently scummy content and think "Is this their meta or are they scum?" so my compromise is to keep a close eye on them.

- We shouldn't lynch Shin today IMO because I feel like he'd be another scapegoat lynch and we do not want that.

What does this mean? We shouldn't lynch Shin because he gets mislynched often? That's dumb stop. Speaking of which

##Vote: Shin Time to coast on this for another phase. Also still happy to sit on Mancer although apparently he's super town according to Refa (???). PB doesn't look great either. Happier with Dormio after his night performance.

Requesting sub for Randa so that we have a doctor (unless revival is temporary and lame).

My gut still tells me that the way Mitsuki claimed is fishy, a role where you have to publicly force someone to forgo their night action is surely something that needs to be outed and considered asap. #469 and #471 are fair defences though, and I can't really fault her elsewhere. File her in the same bracket as eclipse. BBM kinda came into D2 and told us that he'll look into important stuff tomorrow which isn't helpful.

Scum: Shin > Mancer >> Paperblade

Maybe-scum: Mitsuki, eclipse, BBM

Still town: Me, Junko, Refleche, Marth

I'll ISO Shin/Mancer/PB tomorrow.

[Shin]

Yo, I was kinda caught up with something important at the end of D1, apologies for that. I can sorta see why the mislynch happened and I'm not going to pretend that I had a definite read on Randa at all. I am curious about the exact workings of Dormio's role. I'm unsure whether's it's a direct swap or just lets his target night post for that phase. It's probably the latter because the first would be total hax.

I've noticed an interesting Marth votes Paper, BBM and Mancer defend Paper thing going for a while now. Paper's logic on voting Randa didn't seem like harping on Randa for being Randa. I do admit though it does seem like he's giving me a free pass, which is the issue I'm having.

kirsche seems rather intent on getting me lynched. His side reads of Mancer and Paper seem rather lacking though. Like, I've looked through his posts and it kinda feels like he's just picked two people to scumread. I can't actually pick out anything that really suggests that he'd like to see them lynched.

I still need to gather my thoughts, I'm still not a massive fan of Junko, but I'd like to see him this phase before committing.

[Shin]

Looking back over Mitsuki, I'm feeling better about her, although the role thing was kinda a bust since Via died. For some reason I keep mentally blocking out SB and eclipse. I'll probably look over both of them in a bit.

[MancerNecro]

If Bluedoom was indeed roleblocked then Mitsuki should be town. She's probably a town pseudo-Roleblocker meant to allow town to match up to the scum team.

I think scum might have left Mitsuki alive because they might have thought that it'd be easy to work around her role since her role command has to be made in public. So, the fact that she's alive means nothing about her alignment. That said, she leans town-null to me because of her role.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Shin

I think I'd be okay with a Shin lynch today. He basically just waltzed into the day with some of his suspicions and reads but does nothing about them (no voting his scum reads or prodding them). This is scummy to me because it pings me as a distancing attempt. If Shin flips scum, I might want to look at some of his scum reads' behaviors for associative tells.

[MancerNecro]

I've been quite busy the past few days and had a bad Day One and I apologise for that but I promise to try and make up for it in the rest of the game.

[Shin]

##Unvote, ##Vote: Shin

I think I'd be okay with a Shin lynch today. He basically just waltzed into the day with some of his suspicions and reads but does nothing about them (no voting his scum reads or prodding them). This is scummy to me because it pings me as a distancing attempt. If Shin flips scum, I might want to look at some of his scum reads' behaviors for associative tells.

I'm unsure what you mean by waltzed in and did nothing, this feels like an attempt to try and put a vote on me for having no vote currently. I've said that I want to hear from Junko and it's not like I've gone "Hi, this is D2, how swell".

[Refa]

It's less that Mancer is town (spoilers- I don't have a confirmed town read on him) and moreso that I have a good reason for not wanting to lynch him today.

[BBM]

I guess I should have made it more explicit- I received a PR that requires me to yell at people for lynching Randa without a claim (you all SUCK) and also end all my posts with 'heil myself'. I don't have a penalty for breaking it but I get a reward (at the end of the phase I'm guessing) if I do this in >50% of my posts. I don't actually think there's a point to yelling at people for lynching Randa without a claim, but I do think that it's likely there was scum on the wagon if for no other reason than probability.

@Marth- but like... why would scum!Paperblade decide to push Randa for something and then simply ignore other people for doing the same? Why not push them for it too? If it's scum Paperblade struggling for content as you argue, surely that would be a lot easier? Again, it's only scummy if either Mancer or Shin flips scum.

Anyways I thought about it overnight and I've decided that Marth is more likely to be town. I don't think scum would be so eager to hammer Randa at deadline knowing it was going to be a mislynch? It's generally town that are more eager for flips since they don't know the alignment of the person getting lynched.

As for the scum on the Randa wagon, the kind-of-nice thing is that there are 2 flipped town + 2 more basically confirmed town on it so there's less people to look at. Going to focus on Mancer/Junko, then Mitsuki/kirsche, and then SB/Paperblade/Eclipse I guess?

but that's after SHOWER and LUNCH

I would apologize for essentially another prod-dodge but I'm the Fuhrer so glory be to myself HEIL MYSELF

[BBM]

man I was rereading Mancer and Junko and I want to yell at them for lynching Randa without a claim but so many people did it so I'll just have to yell at ALL OF YOU instead YOU GUYS SUCK

I had some issues yesterday about the feeling of Junko's posts being kind of apathetic but I think I feel better about him now, the content seems generally okay if a little sparse.

I'm pretty suspicious of Mancer now- a lot of this is sheeped from SB tbh; I also feel a little dumb for dismissing him on town meta so easily yesterday when he actually is making a lot of little accusations he doesn't follow up on. I also don't get his reasons for switching from Marth to Shin; he doesn't explain what Marth does that's better and his reasoning for Shin being worse is basically just that Shin doesn't vote anybody? But Shin isn't the only person who just came in, stated some reads, and left without a vote- I did the same more or less.

But Refa really doesn't want to lynch Mancer today ?_? so I'll look at other people as well I guess

have to go to DRIVING LESSON now to become best driver in the world

jk I already am HEIL MYSELF!

[BBM]

oh yeah, one thing SB- why am I suddenly suspicious considering you sheeped my Randa case yesterday?

I mean I understand that like everyone else you SUCK for lynching Randa without a claim, but I don't really get this.

too lazy to come up with a good lead-in HEIL MYSELF!

[charlie_]

Overnight rereading is a thing. So is being too lazy to put my notes together into a case so sigh. I'll go do it now I guess.

Is the Randa thing part of your post restriction too?

[Mitsuki]

I'm on one of those moods where I find everything funny and I can't help it but laugh at everything. BBM's posting restriction is only making matters worse. Help.

IF Randa or someone gets in Randa's slot I'll make Eclipse or Kirsche (are you guys still ok with being targeted?) watch Randa.

Also: I recieved some results on setup info (the approximate amount of some kind of roles there is). I'm guessing there's no problem on outing that, but I wanted to ask first to make sure.

-

I don't like SB's Mancer case. I find myself agreeing with part of it (I went to check it and Mancer doesn't mention townreading Boron before what SB quoted, which comes across as Mancer lying), but I think most points are forced. A lot of the stuff SB's brought up is stuff that he could have brought up before, but he ignored it in spite of giving his thoughts on Mancer a couple of times. Being demotivated for the latter part of D1 is not an excuse as most of SB's points could have been brought up earlier.

I also don't think town would outright base their cases on contradictions after Randa's lynch when Randa flipped town and he was being suspected partly due to his contradictions; and even if they did I think town would go and give reasoning on what makes the cited contradictions are scummy. @SB: How are Mancer's contradictions different from Randa's? What makes them scummy?

Just to clarify, I do think contradictions may be scummy sometimes.

Furthermore, passing Mancer saying he doesn't want to reread as him trying to apprear demotivated is a stretch. How is Mancer trying to seem demotivated just from saying he doesn't want to reread the thread?

I should probably mention that SB's Mancer case feels the same way as his Refa case felt back in MLP, which is why I looked into it in the first place. I'll try to look into Mancer and consider Mancer cases.

##Vote: SB

-

Mitsuki can you use the watch thing again or was it 1-shot?

I have unlimited shots as far as I know.

My gut still tells me that the way Mitsuki claimed is fishy, a role where you have to publicly force someone to forgo their night action is surely something that needs to be outed and considered asap.

I never rolled a role where I have to post my command in the thread, it may be obvious when you have but it wasn't to me.

Why is taking my time to out my role scummy instead of bad play though

I think scum might have left Mitsuki alive because they might have thought that it'd be easy to work around her role since her role command has to be made in public. So, the fact that she's alive means nothing about her alignment. That said, she leans town-null to me because of her role.

My role command is public, and that means nothing about my alignment... what? I don't follow your logic here.

[charlie_]

There's quite a few weird things I found rereading BBM. First off, there's his weird waffle on Via here earlygame, it feels like a really lazy dismissal of a read. It's like a hard defense that pushes Via, but then he decides Via's other content is okay (despite not citing what he liked) and saying that they were the worst offender on its own is a little sketchy because it was more of an offhand comment than a hard push, so why is that worse than what Marth did with his push? Yes, I'm aware that you voted Marth instead but considering you said Via's was the worse I want an explanation for it.

More on that post, his Marth vote is also really hypocritical because he says he feels like Marth "just wanted to pick at people on the Dormio wagon", but then basically does the same thing wrt people who attacked Paperblade so why is Marth's play bad? More on the same post(!) he seems to be more concerned with stopping Dormio townreads rather than pointing out faulty logic to prevent misconceptions, saying "don't give him towncred" and rather than just leaving it at he's null.

His content on Shin is kind of ick to me too and just seems really lazy to me? With basically saying that he agrees and has nothing to add. It reminds me of how Prims interacted with Mancer last game kind of, not really giving him that much attention despite him being a kind of big deal wagon. This feeling is pretty much made worse by the fact that he doesn't seem to have that many reads overall this game a lot of his content is related to Paper who hasn't really been relevant for a while.

He kind of backs off the Marth thing today but it seems like... a really underwhelming reason to suddenly drop it? Nobody cares about the hammerer unless the wagons are tied and it's super close to deadline or something and unless someone does VCA (I think I'm the only one who ever does this, and it's not really a common thing for me to do either) you basically forget the dude who hammered existed most of the time

##Unvote

##Vote: BBM

Wrt Shin: A weird thing I noticed about him is his reaction test. Yes, he did this in Qprogue as town and I got on his case about it, but it's a lot different here. Basically, in Qprogue he pushed an obviously weaker case on Refa in order to get a response out of him and was able to cite stuff that proved he was doing it for the sake of reactions, whereas here it just looks like he said "hey this is a reaction test guys" when he came under pressure and looked like he genuinely found what Via was doing scummy, whereas in Qprogue he took special care not to directly call Refa scummy during his reaction test case. I kind of feel like he was genuinely trying to push Via based on it, and then bailed when he noticed that it wouldn't work?

@Mitsuki, I only noticed half of the stuff because I reread and made some notes overnight (but it was like 2am so I decided "fuck writing this up right now". And my vote on Randa wasn't based upon him contradicting anything yesterday? It was because his content was lackluster and it looked like he was just kind of agreeing on things rather than trying to use his questions in order to help him scumhunt. And the contradictions are scummy because it makes it look like he's just trying to push everything he can and it doesn't look like there's an ongoing thought process in his posts (another example of this is him dropping me very suddenly and having to be prodded to explain his read on me, and even then it was a really lame read). Admittedly the demotivation thing might be a bit of a stretch, it seems less significant at not 2am I guess.

Also, if it looks like my MLP case on Refa, shouldn't we lynch Mancer first since it'd obviously be a bus?

[Paperblade]

huuuuuuuuuuuh I am regretting something right now

BBM is misrepresenting Marth's case on me

[Refa]

Can you explain why? Do you think BBM is scum?

Actual post when I get back on my computer I sware.

[BBM]

@Paperblade- not really sure what you mean? And in any case it's not like I'm attacking Marth so

SB stop being semantic; 'don't give him towncred' is essentially the same thing as 'he should be null' and the reason I used the first wording over the second is because several people explicitly said that they thought Dormio ending RVS was townie.

Also the point with me attacking Marth for attacking the Dormio wagon being attacking the Paperblade wagon was something Marth pointed out in his first response to my vote, on D1, and I responded to it. I said that his reason for picking on the Dormio wagon seemed like he was doing it for the sake of doing it for ez content. And you didn't even read what I said about Marth today properly. >_> I didn't say HAMMERER IS TOWN (Marth didn't even hammer for one thing), I said that Marth's tone near the end of the phase seemed really eager to find out the flip, which is generally indicative of town rather than scum because scum already know what the alignment of the flip.

The explanation for me saying Via was worse is that Via's Paper vote was purely based on meta of 'Paperblade is lurking' while Marth's had more to it than that. This is something I said in that paragraph itself. Seriously, read my posts properly if you're going to vote me (although I don't know what I'm expecting from someone who lynched Randa without a claim).

finally, 'I have nothing to say about Shin' is something I said at one point in time and then I had to repeat it once, that's all. After that I actually did give my own opinions on Shin, #210, #329, #427...

also why am I suddenly worse than Mancer? You posted after Refa said the thing about not lynching Mancer and didn't vote me there or even unvote Mancer.

eagerly await more from me in my next post HEIL MYSELF

[BBM]

sorry, should be 'Via's Paper suspicion' I know there was no vote

maybe there also shouldn't have been all those deadline votes on Randa since he didn't claim!!! heil myself

[BBM]

@Mitsuki you should make someone watch Randa so that he can't be killed (not me); of course maybe you wouldn't have had to do that if you guys hadn't lynched Randa without a claim!

also nvm SB didn't post after Refa said not to lynch Mancer until the post where he said he'd case me.

Mitsuki can you explain more about the SB thing compared to MLP? Also, I don't really get your point about SB having been able to make these same points earlier. Where's the scum intent in that? Maaaaybe if they're buddies and SB didn't want him to be lynched until today but that seems kind of a stretch.

I started rereading Mitsuki but then remembered that her role was obvtown woot

kirsche generally seems okay. I don't really agree with the Shin case but I don't think that his park is scummy because he's still talking about a lot of other people and he still does talk about Shin too. Only complaint is probably that it doesn't feel like he's really trying as hard as he could to get Shin lynched? A part of this might be BECAUSE he's still talking about a lot of other people though, so meh. He brings up some good points about eclipse but her tone just feels overall town so ugh I'm inclined to just dismiss that as meta.

I'm townreading everyone but Mancer and maybe SB though I was townreading him before his case on me. Dunno how much of my change in opinion is because the case sucked and showed he wasn't reading my posts clearly and how much is reactionary 'screw that dude who just voted for me'

MORE REREADING but I probably won't be as efficient because hockey match is going to start in 15 minutes

jk I'm always efficient HEIL MYSELF

[MancerNecro]

I switched away from Bluedoom because Refa says that he is town from the role/item he received.

That's why I moved onto my second scum read.

Also, yes, I'm demotivated in this game because the bulk of it happened when I was busy and having to reread players' posts and ISO now is such a drag. I will get to doing that eventually but no guarantees for that.

@Shin: It's scummy cause if you actually are scum reading someone, wouldn't the natural reaction be to vote that person and try to rally town to vote for that player? You're doing absolutely nothing with your reads (not voting anyone and not trying to get your scum read lynched). Makes me wonder if you are scum trying not to draw attention to themselves or to distance yourself from a scum buddy?

[Shin]

Wrt Shin: A weird thing I noticed about him is his reaction test. Yes, he did this in Qprogue as town and I got on his case about it, but it's a lot different here. Basically, in Qprogue he pushed an obviously weaker case on Refa in order to get a response out of him and was able to cite stuff that proved he was doing it for the sake of reactions, whereas here it just looks like he said "hey this is a reaction test guys" when he came under pressure and looked like he genuinely found what Via was doing scummy, whereas in Qprogue he took special care not to directly call Refa scummy during his reaction test case. I kind of feel like he was genuinely trying to push Via based on it, and then bailed when he noticed that it wouldn't work?

Whilst I can see where this coming from, but I legitimately though Via looked bad because their reads were vague and I wanted more info on it. Whilst part of it was to get a reaction, I wanted elaboration, so there's a difference there.

I'm still waiting on a response from Mancer. I'm wondering how appearing and not voting immediately constitutes as scummy. Especially as how before he had Marth and Junko as higher priorities. I don't quite get what SB means by him being bad for not wanting to read or pretending to be demotivated. It just seems like a weird comment to make.

[Shin]

@Shin: It's scummy cause if you actually are scum reading someone, wouldn't the natural reaction be to vote that person and try to rally town to vote for that player? You're doing absolutely nothing with your reads (not voting anyone and not trying to get your scum read lynched). Makes me wonder if you are scum trying not to draw attention to themselves or to distance yourself from a scum buddy?

If I were scum trying not to draw attention to myself, I'd have to say I'd be doing an incredibly poor job. Mancer, I feel like you're not reading what I'm saying at all. It's essentially "No vote, must be scum". If I were doing absolutely nothing, I wouldn't be producing said reads to begin with. I really feel like Mancer's essentially just coming up with reasons to try and justify his vote.

##Vote: Mancer

I appreciate that this may appear reactionary, but I'm not really impressed with the reasons Mancer's producing. The last line in particular really bothers me, especially with the logic he's trying to pass.

I kinda need to sleep but I'll try and do stuff in the morning, maybe.

[Bluedoom]

Shin ugh y do u do dis 2 me WHY DO YOU KEEP VOTING PEOPLE WHO VOTE YOU MAN SERIOUSLY STAHP

@Mitsuki: I don't see any problems with outing the info you got last night but if its not very useful to discussion then its better that you don't out it

I hate that the mafia killed two of my strongest townreads- they also contributed a lot to the game ;-; Who are all these mooks who make some random post during a phase and then do nothing all day long?

[Bluedoom]

@Marth- but like... why would scum!Paperblade decide to push Randa for something and then simply ignore other people for doing the same? Why not push them for it too? If it's scum Paperblade struggling for content as you argue, surely that would be a lot easier?

.

There also isn't any reason for Town!Paperblade to do this though. Also wrt Shin the words hint that he thought Shin was maybe town for doing this always as town while Mancer was off because of the Dormio flip-flop but he can't read him. What Randa did was post quote blocks and not have clear opinions which isn't the same thing that Mancer/Shin did. Its more of a " These two I can't read because meta but I can read Randa because this action of his is scummy" though Randa's actions are part of his town meta too.

You should probs drop a vote sometime soon, btw.