FE9 Tier list v3

[Radiant Dragon]

Calill below the knights- She loses availability and durability (and share Mov, though more easily transportable). Arguments against Knights involved some sketchy non-KW levelups. If Gatrie/Brom can manage decent offense, then I'm not really seeing Calill above them (Brom's requirements for better offense are a little higher, since Gatrie has earlygame utility)

The Knights may have overkill defense, but enemy density is really low in this game. Calill's durability is plenty sufficient unless we're trying to have her solo groups of enemies.

Even with the KW, how high leveled do the Knights need to be to match Calill's speed? Also, they need Javelin forges to have respectable 2-range. You also forgot to mention the siege tomes, and Calill can use all 3, unlike the Mages.

What are the Knights and Mages doing with their availability to make up for being outclassed once Calill and Tormod join?

[Anouleth]

Remember they have, like, double the availability, though. And better durability too, with Ilyana's def supports and Soren's avo support.

Try again. This time, actually checking their stats might help.

The Knights may have overkill defense, but enemy density is really low in this game. Calill's durability is plenty sufficient unless we're trying to have her solo groups of enemies.

Even with the KW, how high leveled do the Knights need to be to match Calill's speed? Also, they need Javelin forges to have respectable 2-range. You also forgot to mention the siege tomes, and Calill can use all 3, unlike the Mages.

They need a high level. For example, even if we staple the Knight Ward to Gatrie's forehead for 100% of his levels, he still only has about 14SPD at level 20/3, which is quite short of doubling Soldiers, Halberdiers, Archers, Snipers, and Fighters in Calill's starting chapter. He's way off doubling the Weapon Knights and Myrmidons (although he can OHKO the Myrmidons, so it's not as big an issue). More likely, he will have missed a few KW levels, so he might have 13SPD, which even falls short on some of the Wyverns. Since his speed growth is faster than that of the enemies, he will eventually dig himself out, but certain enemy types, such as Paladins and laguz, are beyond him forever. For example, a level 20/12 Gatrie that has the KW for 19 out of 22 levels will have about 18 speed. That does not double any Paladins, or Laguz in Chapter 26, and can even fall short on Snipers and Halberdiers.

Now, Brom is better off in some respects. +2 base speed and a lower base level mean that even if we don't give him any KW use over Gatrie, he is pulling 2.25 speed for basically the entire game. That frequently makes a difference. For example, in Chapter 20, Brom is practically guaranteed to double the Wyverns, the Soldiers/Halbs, and the Fighters.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Black★Star

[Florete]

Calill below the knights- She loses availability and durability (and share Mov, though more easily transportable). Arguments against Knights involved some sketchy non-KW levelups. If Gatrie/Brom can manage decent offense, then I'm not really seeing Calill above them (Brom's requirements for better offense are a little higher, since Gatrie has earlygame utility)

The Knights may have overkill defense, but enemy density is really low in this game. Calill's durability is plenty sufficient unless we're trying to have her solo groups of enemies.

Even with the KW, how high leveled do the Knights need to be to match Calill's speed? Also, they need Javelin forges to have respectable 2-range. You also forgot to mention the siege tomes, and Calill can use all 3, unlike the Mages.

What are the Knights and Mages doing with their availability to make up for being outclassed once Calill and Tormod join?

Agreed in that I don't agree with such a change. Past Gatrie's early game utility, the Knights do almost nothing that others can't do better and only continue to fall behind. Gatrie also can do something worthwhile in Ch 13 based on where he starts and has better bases in general, so he may have a case, but not Brom. I honestly think Brom has been severely overrated over the years.

[Radiant Dragon]

I'm going to propose Tormod and Calill > Soren and Ilyana, since Tormod's Celerity and better stats makes up for the fact he joins later and Calill will have comparable or better stats than Soren or Ilyana when she joins.

Some discussion about started here or so, and I would like to hear the thoughts the people here.

[-Cynthia-]

Calill may have comparable or better stats, but she won't have staves.

Tormod has better stats? I'll be generous and compare him at equal levels, though Ilyana and Soren can gain exp via staves, which is essentially free.

20/1 Tormod

30.5 HP 6.6 Str 16.85 Mag 16.2 Skl 16.85 Spd 9.25 Def 16.85 Res 47 Avo

20/1 Soren (C Ike)

30.55 HP 2.95 Str 19.4 Mag 20.45 Skl 17.6 Spd 6.85 Def 19.45 Res 55 Avo

20/1 Ilyana (C Zihark C Mordecai)

30.3 HP 6.5 Str 17 Mag 18.3 Skl 15.2 Spd 9.1 Def 21 Res 47 Avo

Looks pretty even to me, all things considered. Soren might want to stick to forges rather than use heavier tomes, but he has a slight Spd buffer anyway and the best Mag. Ilyana's lower Spd is probably the most significant here.

Put Calill over Brom for now.

[Zkirsche]

Try again. This time, actually checking their stats might help.

Sorry, should've specified I meant Calill, although with the avo and supports Tormod doesn't crush them.

[Anouleth]

Calill may have comparable or better stats, but she won't have staves.

Tormod has better stats? I'll be generous and compare him at equal levels, though Ilyana and Soren can gain exp via staves, which is essentially free.

20/1 Tormod

30.5 HP 6.6 Str 16.85 Mag 16.2 Skl 16.85 Spd 9.25 Def 16.85 Res 47 Avo

20/1 Soren (C Ike)

30.55 HP 2.95 Str 19.4 Mag 20.45 Skl 17.6 Spd 6.85 Def 19.45 Res 55 Avo

20/1 Ilyana (C Zihark C Mordecai)

30.3 HP 6.5 Str 17 Mag 18.3 Skl 15.2 Spd 9.1 Def 21 Res 47 Avo

Looks pretty even to me, all things considered. Soren might want to stick to forges rather than use heavier tomes, but he has a slight Spd buffer anyway and the best Mag. Ilyana's lower Spd is probably the most significant here.

Put Calill over Brom for now.

Ilyana has 16 magic are level 20/1, and even with her support, she would only have 8.1 defense. Soren only has 18.4 magic at level 20/1.

Support bonuses in this game do not round up. They round up in FE10, but they do not round up in any other Fire Emblem game.

[Radiant Dragon]

Calill may have comparable or better stats, but she won't have staves.

Also consider how Calill didn't need any resources whatsoever to be good, unlike the other Sages.

Tormod has better stats?

Does Soren's slightly higher magic net him any 2HKO's that Tormod misses (besides, who else is using the Spirit Dusts?) Are Soren and Ilyana existing in the chapters before Tormod joins worth more than Tormod being better for the rest of the game?

[Anouleth]

Also consider how Calill didn't need any resources whatsoever to be good, unlike the other Sages.

Does Soren's slightly higher magic net him any 2HKO's that Tormod misses (besides, who else is using the Spirit Dusts?) Are Soren and Ilyana existing in the chapters before Tormod joins worth more than Tormod being better for the rest of the game?

Plus, Tormod has a very easy Reyson support and a potential Calill support that largely close the ATK gap between him and Soren (and extend the attack gap between him and Ilyana).

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Regardless of the comparison at 20/1 stats, the important problem to stress is how much BEXP it takes to get there. Since by chapter 16, your units are promoted or very close, Tormod has to make up 13 levels with BEXP, which could be otherwise used to do something like pump Jill/Marcia up to break the game. Additionally, 8 vs 6 mov is not as good as it seems since Tormod's still getting definitively outrun by Paladins and lacks the more important Canto. On the flip side, consider that if Ike can move far enough to kill an enemy, so can Soren/Ilyana from the same position.

[Radiant Dragon]

How do Soren and Ilyana take less BEXP?

[Kaoz]

Regardless of the comparison at 20/1 stats, the important problem to stress is how much BEXP it takes to get there. Since by chapter 16, your units are promoted or very close, Tormod has to make up 13 levels with BEXP, which could be otherwise used to do something like pump Jill/Marcia up to break the game. Additionally, 8 vs 6 mov is not as good as it seems since Tormod's still getting definitively outrun by Paladins and lacks the more important Canto. On the flip side, consider that if Ike can move far enough to kill an enemy, so can Soren/Ilyana from the same position.

I don't see how you want to get Soren/Ilyana to promotion without a good amount of BEXP to be honest. Soren will get a minimal amount of CEXP in the early chapters and when you get access to BEXP in chapter 8, Ike, Boyd and Oscar are all superior BEXP candidates. They can train a bit on the beach in chapter 9 I guess and maybe get the houses, in chapter 10 they won't see much combat, same with 11. I guess they can get some CEXP in 12, but Soren needs to be around Lv 15 just to 2RKO the Ravens. 13 can give them some CEXP again, 14 probably not so much, 15 depends on whether we 2 turn it or get Stefan. I don't see them any higher than maybe Lv 14 at the start of ch. 16. (without BEXP). Sure, Tormod would need 728 BEXP to catch up to that, but when you field Soren/Ilyana in those chapters, they will be amongst your worst units, so I'm not sure whether that's worth it.

As for your Ike example, that's only true on turn 1, afterwards they will fall behind. Also Ike's move is nothing great either and he should probably be rescue-dropped when necessary.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

How do Soren and Ilyana take less BEXP?

...Really?

I don't see how you want to get Soren/Ilyana to promotion without a good amount of BEXP to be honest. Soren will get a minimal amount of CEXP in the early chapters and when you get access to BEXP in chapter 8, Ike, Boyd and Oscar are all superior BEXP candidates. They can train a bit on the beach in chapter 9 I guess and maybe get the houses, in chapter 10 they won't see much combat, same with 11. I guess they can get some CEXP in 12, but Soren needs to be around Lv 15 just to 2RKO the Ravens. 13 can give them some CEXP again, 14 probably not so much, 15 depends on whether we 2 turn it or get Stefan. I don't see them any higher than maybe Lv 14 at the start of ch. 16. (without BEXP). Sure, Tormod would need 728 BEXP to catch up to that, but when you field Soren/Ilyana in those chapters, they will be amongst your worst units, so I'm not sure whether that's worth it.

If you want to argue that using Soren/Ilyana is not worth it in the face of better units, I do not see how the same does not apply to Tormod, but at a larger scale.

As for your Ike example, that's only true on turn 1, afterwards they will fall behind. Also Ike's move is nothing great either and he should probably be rescue-dropped when necessary.

The majority of the time, your foot units are not going to use their full movement, and so the 1 mov difference is not as significant. The reason paladins are so dominant in this game stems much more from Canto than the innate extra movement.

[Radiant Dragon]

...Really?

Soren and Ilyana aren't going to be performing well unless we give them some BEXP when it becomes available, and then continue to give them BEXP so they can keep up, due to their bad mobility + bad durability + sub-par AS. The only difference is that Tormod gets all of the BEXP Soren and Ilyana did at once.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Soren and Ilyana aren't going to be performing well unless we give them some BEXP when it becomes available, and then continue to give them BEXP so they can keep up, due to their bad mobility + bad durability + sub-par AS. The only difference is that Tormod gets all of the BEXP Soren and Ilyana did at once.

What you're saying is Soren/Ilyana need 13 levels of BEXP as well, which is utterly ridiculous when you see that Ilyana at base is one level behind Tormod at base and Soren is usually drawn on par with Ilyana at this time, projecting major leads. Training them is not a difficult task, and trying to bring them down to a level where the BEXP dump needed is even comparable is blatant sandbagging.

[Radiant Dragon]

*Shrugs* Even if they need a little less BEXP (although I contest that Tormod needs to be BEXP'd to promotion to be useful in Chapter 16), there's so much BEXP in this game that that advantage would be minor at best, and doesn't make up for Tormod being better than them once he joins.

[Kaoz]

If you want to argue that using Soren/Ilyana is not worth it in the face of better units, I do not see how the same does not apply to Tormod, but at a larger scale.

Because there are certain chapters where he is better than a lot of your units. For example, siege tomes are very useful in chapters 18 and 22 (the latter can be 1 turned without them, but I think you'll have to kill priests in that case). In order to use Tormod only for those two chapters (theoretically), we'd need to give him around 1626 BEXP. To get the same results with Soren (Lv 19) , he needs 2042 BEXP (slightly less because of his forced chapters, but still), both Arms Scrolls and the Boots. Even if you don't agree with Tormod > Soren/Ilyana, are you honestly going to tell me that they are a tier apart?

The majority of the time, your foot units are not going to use their full movement, and so the 1 mov difference is not as significant. The reason paladins are so dominant in this game stems much more from Canto than the innate extra movement.

I guess. But still, even 7 move is not very good in a game with so many strong Paladins/Flyers.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Because there are certain chapters where he is better than a lot of your units. For example, siege tomes are very useful in chapters 18 and 22 (the latter can be 1 turned without them, but I think you'll have to kill priests in that case). In order to use Tormod only for those two chapters (theoretically), we'd need to give him around 1626 BEXP. To get the same results with Soren (Lv 19) , he needs 2042 BEXP (slightly less because of his forced chapters, but still), both Arms Scrolls and the Boots. Even if you don't agree with Tormod > Soren/Ilyana, are you honestly going to tell me that they are a tier apart?

It's unlikely he has B Fire in Chapter 18, and I don't see how siege tomes are that useful there anyway. 22 is fair, but the only investment you need to do that is an Arms Scroll. I don't see why you've decided Soren can barely level during his existence and why the Boots are necessary for this. Yes, Tormod should not be in the same tier as Soren/Ilyana.

20/6 Soren

33 hp | 3 str | 21 mag | 23 skl | 20 spd | 12 lck | 8 def | 22 res

20/6 Ilyana

32.5 hp | 8 str | 18.5 mag | 20.5 skl | 17 spd | 14.5 lck | 8 def | 21.5 res

13 Tormod

23 hp | 3 str | 13 mag | 11 skl | 12 spd | 10 lck | 5.5 def | 12 res

An utter blowout. Of course, you're probably saying this is ridiculously stacked in favor of Soren and Ilyana, but all I did was first give all of them 6 levels for fair share, which would put Ilyana/Soren at about promotion by Tormod's join even assuming low level 14, and then give the BEXP you handwave for Tormod to Ilyana/Soren; this is as fair as the 20/1 even comparison. While then, it was only a marginal win for Tormod, this opposite perspective makes you wonder why we're even comparing these characters in the first place.

I guess. But still, even 7 move is not very good in a game with so many strong Paladins/Flyers.

Neither is Tormod's 8 mov.

[Anouleth]

It's unlikely he has B Fire in Chapter 18, and I don't see how siege tomes are that useful there anyway. 22 is fair, but the only investment you need to do that is an Arms Scroll. I don't see why you've decided Soren can barely level during his existence and why the Boots are necessary for this. Yes, Tormod should not be in the same tier as Soren/Ilyana.

Only C Fire is needed to use Meteor, not B.

20/6 Soren

33 hp | 3 str | 21 mag | 23 skl | 20 spd | 12 lck | 8 def | 22 res

20/6 Ilyana

32.5 hp | 8 str | 18.5 mag | 20.5 skl | 17 spd | 14.5 lck | 8 def | 21.5 res

13 Tormod

23 hp | 3 str | 13 mag | 11 skl | 12 spd | 10 lck | 5.5 def | 12 res

An utter blowout. Of course, you're probably saying this is ridiculously stacked in favor of Soren and Ilyana, but all I did was first give all of them 6 levels for fair share, which would put Ilyana/Soren at about promotion by Tormod's join even assuming low level 14, and then give the BEXP you handwave for Tormod to Ilyana/Soren; this is as fair as the 20/1 even comparison. While then, it was only a marginal win for Tormod, this opposite perspective makes you wonder why we're even comparing these characters in the first place.

So basically, when Soren and Ilyana get tons of BEXP when they join, and then fed kills throughout their mediocre unpromoted existence, and then given more BEXP when Tormod joins, they are indeed better than Tormod. What a surprise. I never would have expected such a shocking outcome.

[Radiant Dragon]

20/6 Soren

33 hp | 3 str | 21 mag | 23 skl | 20 spd | 12 lck | 8 def | 22 res

20/6 Ilyana

32.5 hp | 8 str | 18.5 mag | 20.5 skl | 17 spd | 14.5 lck | 8 def | 21.5 res

13 Tormod

23 hp | 3 str | 13 mag | 11 skl | 12 spd | 10 lck | 5.5 def | 12 res

An utter blowout. Of course, you're probably saying this is ridiculously stacked in favor of Soren and Ilyana, but all I did was first give all of them 6 levels for fair share, which would put Ilyana/Soren at about promotion by Tormod's join even assuming low level 14, and then give the BEXP you handwave for Tormod to Ilyana/Soren; this is as fair as the 20/1 even comparison. While then, it was only a marginal win for Tormod, this opposite perspective makes you wonder why we're even comparing these characters in the first place.

So... 7 levels for Tormod (13 to 20) is 7 levels for Soren or Ilyana (20 to 20/6)? Am I missing something here? Or are you forgetting promoted units use much more BEXP? Additionally, giving that BEXP to Tormod gives you a better unit than giving that BEXP to Soren or Ilyana. So yeah, that's far from a fair comparison.

Neither is Tormod's 8 mov.

Yes, 8 move is that much better than 6 move.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

So... 7 levels for Tormod (13 to 20) is 7 levels for Soren or Ilyana (20 to 20/6)? Am I missing something here? Or are you forgetting promoted units use much more BEXP? Additionally, giving that BEXP to Tormod gives you a better unit than giving that BEXP to Soren or Ilyana. So yeah, that's far from a fair comparison.

I counted from 20/1, which is 5 levels, and 14 as I said is low anyway. The second statement is just straight up ignoring the point.

Yes, 8 move is that much better than 6 move.

You've done nothing to show that Tormod's move niche matters so when he's getting outrun by Paladins and otherwise not durable enough to take the front.

[Anouleth]

You haven't addressed my point about how Soren and Ilyana have taken much more in the way of resources than Tormod. It's incorrect to imply that Soren/Ilyana can naturally reach promotion by Chapter 16 without having a negative impact on the rest of the team (by taking a disproportionate amount of BEXP very early on or whatever). Even for a baller like Marcia, 20/6 requires her to take a huge amount of BEXP.

You've done nothing to show that Tormod's move niche matters so when he's getting outrun by Paladins and otherwise not durable enough to take the front.

Lets theorycraft, shall we? Let there be some 9 move Paladin that begins two spaces in front of Tormod. Every turn, the Paladin moves 9 spaces and extends the gap between him and Tormod by 1. Tormod will not be unable to heal the Paladin until turn 8, when the gap between him and the Paladin is 9 squares, even in this theoretical construct where the Paladin never needs to slow down for any reason and Tormod can never take a spare Vigor from Reyson and for some reason we haven't beaten the map already. In contrast, a regular Sage would stop being able to heal the Paladin on turn 3, when the gap between them would be 8 squares.

I do not understand how Tormod needs to be durable enough to take the front. Normally, he can take one or two rounds of combat without dying anyway. I don't hear any complaints about Mist or Reyson's durability, and they have much the same role (a sort of midliner that needs to be close to frontliners to do their job).

[aku chi]

Regarding Tormod vs. Soren/Ilyana, I've posted extensively in this topic already, but I'd like to do a chapter-by-chapter comparison of the Mages' contributions. The way I see it, there are two relevant approaches to using the Mages.

The low-resources approach involves giving the Mages about 300 Bexp and a Master Seal and using them primarily as a staffbot. The time to promote Soren and Ilyana with this approach is Chapter 11 (right after you get the first Master Seal). Tormod should be promoted before Chapter 16. While they are primarily staffbots, the Sages still have some offense, and can contribute here and there with regular 1-2 range magic (with one forge, perhaps) and siege magic. The intention of the staffbot Sage is not to supplement another staff user (Rhys or Mist) but to be your sole staff user.

Chapter-by-Chapter Contributions:

Chapter 4: Soren can chip here and there, but probably isn't contributing much towards completing the chapter (he can deal good damage to the boss, but gets 2HKO in return).

Chapter 5: Self improvement for Soren. He can probably reach level 3 by the end of the chapter.

Chapter 6: Soren is a deadweight here.

Chapter 7: This is a rout, and Soren can contribute by teaming up with Mia or Oscar or Ike or Boyd for kills, because they aren't (with the possible exception of a blessed Boyd or Ike) ORKO machines at this point. Soren can easily get to level 5 by the end of this chapter.

Chapter 8: Self improvement for Soren. He can probably get up to level 7 here. Ilyana can chip a few rounds for some Cexp.

Chapter 9: Bexp Ilyana or Soren to level 9 (200-250 Bexp) and they'll be somewhat competent helping out on the beach. They tank magic attacks but are otherwise 2-3HKO. But they can double the Mages and Fighters and 3HKO them. Nothing special, but it helps Mia or whomever else you send to the beach.

Chapter 10: If you stealth, the Mages do nothing. If you brute-force, they still probably do nothing.

Chapter 11: Bexp up to level 10 (<50 Bexp) and seal Ilyana/Soren. In addition to gaining staves, promotion improves their offense, durability, and movement. In this chapter they can heal when needed and still deal decent damage if attacking/attacked (they double and 3HKO most foes: Adept lets Soren turn some of those into ORKOs).

Chapter 12: Unless we early-clear with Super Marcia, we have several chapters for our Sage to heal or chip as needed: self-improvement.

Chapter 13: Soren/Ilyana can heal when needed and also chip in when needed. Their offense could come in handy if we're trying to get an early rout-clear (still mostly doubling and 3HKOing, though they can pull off 2HKOs with a forge).

Chapter 14: Soren/Ilyana should have D Staves by now, so they can light the way with Torch.

Chapter 15: Staffbot Soren/Ilyana can deal decent damage to Muarim, but it probably isn't worth risking their poor durability with a rescue-drop. So they don't do anything here.

Chapter 16: Tormod can be given 301 Bexp and Master Sealed. Soren/Ilyana are easily 10/3 by now, and they will at least keep this level lead over Tormod because they're getting the bulk of their exp from staves. They might even extend the lead thanks to having access to higher-level staves, which award far more exp, but I'll assume a constant 2 level lead. Let's take a look at their stats:

10/3 Soren

26.95 HP, 2.55 Str, 13.6 Mag, 16.05 Skl, 14.4 Spd, 8.3 Lck, 5.65 Def, 15.05 Res

10/3 Ilyana

26.7 HP, 4.5 Str, 12 Mag, 14.7 Skl, 12.8 Spd, 8.7 Lck, 5.9 Def, 15 Res

10/1 Tormod

25.5 HP, 4.6 Str, 12.35 Mag, 12.2 Skl, 12.35 Spd, 9.05 Lck, 6.75 Def, 12.35 Res

Their stats are pretty similar, the only notable advantage is Soren's +2 AS when he isn't weilding a heavy tome (plus Adept). In other news, Tormod starts with E Staves while Ilyana and Soren are at D and are working towards C. Tormod does have a nice movement advantage, which will give him more healing options before Soren/Ilyana get to C Staves. Tormod's movement advantage is pretty important in Chapter 16. Soren/Ilyana will get left behind after a few turns if not rescued.

Chapter 17-1: A rout chapter where the Sages might be able to help out a little. Only Soren is likely to ORKO, and only with an Adept activation. But if chipping is needed, Tormod has more movement to get where he needs to be.

Chapter 17-2: Even Tormod is likely to get left behind in this race to the finish, the best the Sages can hope for is a couple turns of healing.

Chapter 17-3: Defending is trivial, so this is the longest self-improvement chapter in the game. Thanks to the vast amount of enemies and Venin weapons, it shouldn't be difficult for any of the Sages to find a healing target for 7-9 turns. Soren/Ilyana will likely reach C Staves during this chapter, just as Tormod reaches D Staves.

Chapter 17-4: I don't see any of the Sages doing much here.

Chapter 18: Similar to Chapter 16, Soren/Ilyana will be left behind in this race while Tormod just might keep up. However, Soren/Ilyana can still heal your advancing line with Physic if needed. Or they can stay behind and help deal with the reinforcements.

Chapter 19: It's over before the Sages can do much.

Chapter 20: Physic is might be important in this chapter if you send fliers up to the Arrive square. They can take a beating and might need healing. Tormod can't weild Physic yet. He can help in the north or siege-bomb to weaken the Wyvern Riders, but so can Soren/Ilyana.

Chapter 21: Sleep Bishops are a big threat in this chapter, so having a staff user with Restore is wise. Tormod can't weild it, but Soren/Ilyana can. They probably need to be ferried to keep up, but it's worth it lest Ike or someone else important succombs to Sleep. Tormod can maybe help get a treasure in the north (Energy Drop, perhaps).

Chapter 22: So, there's this guy named Schaeffer that we might want to siege-bomb. Let's take a look at the stats now, assuming 5 levels since Chapter 16:

10/8 Soren

29.2 HP, 2.8 Str, 16.6 Mag, 18.8 Skl, 16.4 Spd, 9.8 Lck, 6.4 Def, 17.8 Res

10/8 Ilyana

28.95 HP, 5.75 Str, 14.5 Mag, 16.95 Skl, 14.3 Spd, 10.95 Lck, 6.65 Def, 17.5 Res

10/6 Tormod

28 HP, 5.6 Str, 14.6 Mag, 14.2 Skl, 14.6 Spd, 10.8 Lck, 8 Def, 14.6 Res

--/6 Calill

32 HP, 8 Str, 19 Mag, 18 Skl, 18 Spd, 16 Lck, 8 Def, 17 Res

I include Calill's base stats to demonstrate that she is clearly the best siege tome user. With Meteor, Calill can deal 21 damage per hit. So if we vigor her, she leaves Schaeffer with 9 HP, which any of the other Sages can finish off with a single Meteor use. Tormod can weild Meteor at base, but Soren and Ilyana aren't quite so lucky. Blizzard isn't available and the Chapter 16 Bolting isn't efficient to retrieve, so Soren and Ilyana need C Fire to siege Schaeffer. They get D Fire when they promote in Chapter 11, so they would have needed to use Fire 50 times or Elfire 25 times to reach C Fire. It's certainly possible, but not likely to happen accidently (especially considering that Ilyana would prefer to weild (El)Thunder and Soren would prefer Elwind or a Thunder forge.) If we don't want to use Calill for some reason, Soren is the only one who has a chance to kill Schaeffer on turn 1. He 3HKOs Schaeffer, so he needs to activate Adept once in addition to getting vigored by Reyson. He has a 34% chance of doing so.

Chapter 23: I like to siege the Ballistae operators in this chapter (to clear the way for Reyson). Unfortunately, staffbot Sages can't ORKO any of them, so that reduces the appeal of this strategy. Otherwise, the Sages can't do much.

Chapter 24: A race to the finish will leave Soren/Ilyana behind, but they can heal with Physic if need be. Tormod can mostly keep up and heal/attack as needed.

Chapter 25: I find that Physic users are pretty valuable in this chapter. The stones deal a bunch of set damage, and sending a flyer (with or without cargo) up to the top can put units in danger far away from your starting point. Staffbot Tormod might just be able to weild Physic here. If he can, he can be a big help with his extra movement. If he can't he can still climb up the trail and help out with 1-range heals. Soren/Ilyana will probably be able to reach to the top on turn 2 to heal flier or cargo, though Ilyana might struggle with Physic range.

Chapter 26: The Sages can heal if needed, nothing special.

Chapter 27: Tormod can keep up and contribute offensively here if needed. Soren/Ilyana, meanwhile, will probably have B Staves, which opens up some Rescue/Sleep possibilities which may or may not help.

Chapter 28: More of the same, Tormod might be able to keep up and help on offense (especially with a Fire forge against beast laguz). Soren/Ilyana can try to put pesky enemies to Sleep or Rescue Reyson or a flyer forward a little.

Endgame: The later staves give a bundle of exp, so here are the staffbots' expected ending levels:

10/14 Soren

31.9 HP, 3.1 Str, 20.2 Mag, 22.1 Skl, 18.8 Spd, 11.6 Lck, 7.3 Def, 21.1 Res

10/14 Ilyana

31.65 HP, 7.25 Str, 17.5 Mag, 19.65 Skl, 16.1 Spd, 13.65 Lck, 7.55 Def, 20.5 Res

10/12 Tormod

31 HP, 6.8 Str, 17.3 Mag, 16.6 Skl, 17.3 Spd, 12.9 Lck, 9.5 Def, 17.3 Res

Physic range is key in this chapter. Soren shouldn't have much trouble being able to heal Ike/Royal while staying out of Ashnard's range, but Ilyana/Tormod might not be so lucky. They might need a Spirit Dust and/or extra Bexp for this role.

In summary: Soren and Ilyana can be effective as your sole staff user from Chapter 11 onwards with an early seal. Soren, in particular, can also contribute a little in combat. Staffbot Tormod, on the other hand, can't sufficiently operate as your sole staff user. He doesn't exist during Chapters 11-15 and can't weild Restore in Chapter 21. He can contribute a little offensively, though, and so might be considered as a secondary staff user.

The second way to use the Mages is to train them so that they can consistently ORKO, use siege tomes in key places, and use staves occasionally as an added bonus. This approach is more Bexp intensive, but the Mages can contribute more. I'd like to do a chapter-by-chapter analysis of this approach later (perhaps tomorrow), so stay tuned...

Edited May 7, 2011 by aku chi

[Anouleth]

Chapter 20: Physic is might be important in this chapter if you send fliers up to the Arrive square. They can take a beating and might need healing. Tormod can't weild Physic yet. He can help in the north or siege-bomb to weaken the Wyvern Riders, but so can Soren/Ilyana.

I don't think physic is useful at all. Tanith at base with a steel forge deals 9x2 damage to Shihiram, leaving him on 27HP. Calill with Reyson's help will be able to deal 17 damage twice with Meteor, killing him, and any other flying unit can then Arrive. There is no need to leave an ally near Shihiram on Enemy Phase.

[aku chi]

I don't think physic is useful at all. Tanith at base with a steel forge deals 9x2 damage to Shihiram, leaving him on 27HP. Calill with Reyson's help will be able to deal 17 damage twice with Meteor, killing him, and any other flying unit can then Arrive. There is no need to leave an ally near Shihiram on Enemy Phase.

I can't say I've actually executed this strategy before and I guess I didn't think it through enough. I thought Tanith would take a beating from the Wyvern Knights on turn 1 just getting close enough to the arrive square, but I guess she would be in Heal range at that point, so Physic wouldn't be needed. Physic might still be useful if you didn't execute this particular strategy for whatever reason (maybe you don't have a second flier durable enough or aren't deploying Calill or Tanith for some reason).