Red Fox of Fire's character review topic (Complete)

[Zkirsche]

Eventually that discussion will probably have to take place, though, as otherwise we'd run out of things to discuss (not that it matters as noone's responded to me anyway).

[Florete]

I only hope I haven't gotten rusty.

Shinon

The asshole.

Everyone knows Snipers got something of a buff in this game, and Shinon is the one who benefits the most. What's great about Shinon is that he is one of few units who can double very consistently throughout the game due to a high Speed base and growth. While his Strength starts out decent and there are weapons like the Silencer to bring it very high, he can occasionally run into damage issues, but not too badly. He ought to be your #1 ranged unit throughout part 3 as a result of all this.

Of course, that only goes so far. A 2 range lock means he only gets to fight one enemy per phase on average, occasionally more with the weak and limited Crossbows. Luckily for him, though, enemy density is not too high in this game, so the hurt isn't that bad. What's ironic about this is that he's actually one of the best units defensively on the team; he has some of the best concrete defense and avoid. In other words, you can always count on him to never die.

He ought to promote near the end of part 3. Now he gets to run around with 3 range and Deadeye, which is pretty cool, especially the tactical flexibility granted by 3 range. Otherwise, he's pretty much the same for a while: Awesome player phase, no enemy phase. One thing to note is the possibility of 4-5, where he'll be a good with Beastfoe and any Crossbow for slaughtering Laguz, finally able to make use of his good defenses. Then Endgame comes along and he gets the Double Bow, making him pretty much one of the best Endgame units around, running around with 1-3 range and awesome durability. Granted Endgame does not last too long, but this is very helpful for stuff like Aura clearing in 4-E-5 and attacking the bosses uncountered.

Then he's got Thunder affinity. Somewhat useless for a guy that doesn't get attacked often, but pretty nice in general. It can help units like Boyd or Nephenee, who occasionally have defensive issues, survive a bit longer. There isn't exactly anyone out there that's praying for Thunder though, so it's not a massive advantage.

In conclusion, great player phase pretty much forever but lacking good enemy phase for a long time.

8.5/10

Transfer changes:

Shinon can get Speed and Skill from a transfer. Now that he comes with Speed and Skill capped he can be BEXP slowplayed pretty easily, but otherwise it isn't much of a difference since neither of those significantly help his performance and the boosts he'll eventually get don't really come in time to do a lot. At best he'll do better against some late game enemies.

Gatrie

The womanizer.

Gatrie is, without a doubt, your most defensively capable unit, boasting the best raw defenses on the team in bases, growths, and caps. What's more, his offense is awesome. He has some of the highest Strength on the team and access to the two strongest weapon types. His base Speed won't double, but his 60% growth will get him there in time. In other words, Gatrie is both an offensive and defensive machine.

He starts out just you'd expect a General to. Doesn't double but hits hard and never dies. This is him until he caps his Speed, at which point he's the easy best candidate for the first Master Crown you get. He promotes and bam, a giant walks among you. He will kill shit, and he will not die. Even if he can't kill for some reason, he still has Luna as a backup.

So this guy sounds pretty cool. What sets him back? A few things, actually. First and most obvious is mobility. It's the worst on the team. He has low Move, bad terrain penalties, and almost no one can Shove or Rescue him, so getting him to the enemies can be troublesome. Another thing is Speed cap. His tier 2 cap of 23 can be mitigated by the aforementioned early promotion, but his eventual cap of 31 is really bad and had trouble doubling later. Not only that, but his tier 2 cap leaves a lasting effect on his base tier 3 performance since he'll be stuck at 25 Speed for a while due to decreased experience gain.

Light affinity is...okay. The Hit is actually much better for him than the Defense since he already has Defense coming out his ass while his Hit is occasionally shaky. He's a good candidate for someone like Boyd, who also has Hit issues and can use the Defense boost as well. Maybe Nephenee as well for the Defense she wants. There's no easy partner for him but he should be able to put his affinity to work.

Gatrie is a very good character. A few things hold him back, but a character that kills kills kills while refusing to die fits into just about any team.

9/10

Transfer changes:

Gatrie can get Strength, Skill, Speed, and Defense from a transfer. As awesome as that sounds, it actually doesn't do much. His Strength was already high enough, Skill still isn't capping, Speed still caps too soon, and Defense is still overkill. All it really helps is for some BEXP use to get more Skill, Luck, and Resistance before promotion, but it isn't a significant enough boost.

[Original Alear]

What's ironic about this is that he's actually one of the best units defensively on the team; he has some of the best concrete defense and avoid. In other words, you can always count on him to never die.

However, because his 1 range is lacking, I always feel like provoke is a bit of a disadvantage before x2 bow (and an even bigger boon after).

I know that people don't usually bring Gatrie to endgame, but my favorite thing is to give him wishblade and dragonfoe on the dragon chapter. 1-2 range and insane defense makes him able to take single digits against red dragons.

[Narga_Rocks]

However, because his 1 range is lacking, I always feel like provoke is a bit of a disadvantage before x2 bow (and an even bigger boon after).

I know that people don't usually bring Gatrie to endgame, but my favorite thing is to give him wishblade and dragonfoe on the dragon chapter. 1-2 range and insane defense makes him able to take single digits against red dragons.

Single digits would only be if he has some sort of boost. Like, cover, to be specific. Reds in HM (this rating topic is for HM) have 56 or 58 mt, depending on which one. Gats' cap is "just" 37, so he needs cover for the weaker ones to drop to single digits, and he needs his support + cover for the 58 mt ones.

And I always remove provoke from Shinon in 3-P.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Colonel M]

I'd say that +2 in Spd from a transfer for Gatrie is pretty useful. It gets him on a roll doubling faster and can give reason to promote him earlier with the crown.

[Narga_Rocks]

I'd say that +2 in Spd from a transfer for Gatrie is pretty useful. It gets him on a roll doubling faster and can give reason to promote him earlier with the crown.

The benefit from the crown is undeniable for allowing some earlier doubling, but I'm not sure just how much more he gets. 22 instead of 20 in 3-P and 3-1 certainly let him double more things, but the main place in those two chapters that I can see an improvement from this is the generals at the bottom right house in 3-1. Aside from that? Then in 3-2 assuming he has 21 AS by now, 23 AS isn't a huge boon in comparison. If he doesn't have 21 AS then it is a lot more significant.

And as for promotion, I'm assuming he gets crowned the instant he hits 23 AS. Or at least in the following base, but it is possible to do so during a chapter. How long do most people find it takes for him to hit 23 AS? 3-4 or 3-5? And it should be noted that the paladin swarm in 3-5 have <20 AS, mostly, and the horseslayer OHKOs in Gatrie's hands anyway. It is possible that his transfer warrants an extra +.5, but given how tight things are at the top I'm not surprised he didn't get it in this topic. I have a hard time seeing the non-transfer Gatrie getting an 8.5, and I have a hard time seeing the transfer version getting a 9.5. I think 9s are fine for both, even though Gatrie (T) is undeniably better than Gatrie (N).

[RNG Princess]

Gatrie is really good i've been using him in part 3

I'm wondering between the mages who is better/worse in their respective parts.

Ilyana in Part 1 chapter 3->endgame

Tormod in Part 1 chapter 7-8-endgame

Callil in Part 2-endgame

Soren in prologue->endgame part 3

Sanaki in Part 4 prologue-3-endgame

Pelleas in Part 4 chapter 2-5-final

[Original Alear]

I don't think it changes things much. Mages aren't that great for endgame anyway so it's not like there's a period they have in part 4 where a mage who used to be worse gets better compared to the others. I'd guess it goes to Soren or Calill.

[Florete]

Hey, I'm back.

Rhys

The...Damn, what's this guy's trademark?

Anyway, Rhys is the other healer of the Mercenaries, the first being Mist. I described how he compares to Mist in that review, so there isn't really much left to say here since he's basically her but with those previously mentioned differences: -1 move, a bit heavier, inferior affinity. I also said then that I would mention Rhys' advantages here, so I guess I need to do that as well, don't I?

Well, his chip damage is actually reasonable to put to use on occasion. 28 base power targeting Resistance is a 3 hit on most physical enemies for a while and eventually reaches borderline 2 hit after some leveling and support. He also has 10 more Magic than Mist, allowing him to heal 10 more HP, though this only really matters for characters like Boyd and even then might not make a difference.

There isn't much else to say. Healing is still nice despite having competition since 2 healers is often better than 1, but that's about all he does. His chip can be good but he'll still mostly be limited to healing since his durability just never becomes good. That never really changes.

5.5/10

Transfer changes:

Rhys gets Magic, Skill, and Resistance with a transfer. Wow...that's almost totally useless. Magic will bring him into 2 hit kills a bit sooner, the Skill and Resistance are both next to meaningless. At best it will help him slowplay BEXP a bit sooner, but that still doesn't do much for his case. No change.

Mia

The energetic Swordswoman.

Oh, Christ. This girl has been just about the most controversial unit in the entire game for almost a year in the recent tier discussions. This is, of course, not without reason. How good Mia is depends entirely on how liberal you are with resources; if you believe in entitling them to those who use them best, she's amazing. If you're communist and assume equal distribution, she's just good. I believe in a sort of middle ground, but leaning toward the former.

Knowing that, it makes sense that you really have to know how to use Mia for her to be good. The first thing that happens, right in 3-P, is Adept. She needs it. This is not without justification of course. With 4 Speed above the next highest unit, she has the highest activation rates by far, especially since she doubles everything (Base 28 Speed doubles every single enemy until 3-10. No joke) and only a couple others double reliably, and not even everything. Then, there's the what the others who could reasonably take it do: Shinon, the man with 24 Speed, is a Sniper, and so generally only gets 1 attack per turn. Ike, the next highest with 23, is already 2 hit killing a lot of enemies anyway, while Mia is often killing in 3 with more crit. Anyone else doesn't even double reliably enough, and no one ever comes close to her amount of crit, at least not until you can have another Adept scroll.

So with Adept in hand, how's she holding up? Well, 3-P and 3-1 is the worst it ever gets for her. She can be pretty borderline on 3 hit killing and her own durability is not the greatest either. However, there are two other orders of business: A strong crit forge and a support with Ike.

First, the crit forge. Honestly, if you're already giving her Adept, you might as well go the extra mile and do this as well. Depending on how strong you make it (I generally find +3-4 to be enough) the money should not be a big deal if You're Doing it Right and the combination does wonders with all the doubling and high crit she has. I can't recall exact numbers, but I believe it gives her something like 65-70% chances to kill anything she's 3 hitting.

Lastly, the Ike support. By the time this has gotten a chance to build (I'd assume A by about 3-5) her durability problems are mostly erased, which is the main point of justifying her support Ike: No one else gets such an increase in durability as she does. Then there's the fact that she can trade Swords around with Ike, which no one else can do, she matches his movement, and aside from the avoid Ike gets already from his affinity, the only bonuses he ever might want are Hit and Atk, which is what Mia gives him.

It seems like a lot to swallow, but it's worth it. She will double every enemy in the game assuming efficient use and in time she won't even be needing Adept or the crit forge anymore since she actually has a decent Strength growth and promotion gain which will get her to 2 hitting enemies later in part 3. She'll basically be your best offensive unit; She kills most everything and grows amazing durability to keep herself alive. The only notable problem is her crappy 2 range options limiting her flexibility, but since enemy density in this game is generally not too high this isn't much of a problem in most circumstances.

And unlike people such as Titania and Haar, she gets better later on instead of worse. She'll be one of the best candidates for Endgame with her amazing Speed for fast enemies and Wyrmslayers for Dragons.

9/10

Transfer changes:

Mia gets Strength, Skill, and Speed from a transfer. At first, only the Strength helps her. She'll be in the 3 hit killing range almost without issue, making her worst maps a lot better, and won't need Adept for as long. But the others also help, if only a bit. Speed comes immediately capped and Skill caps in 3-4 levels, allowing her BEXP slowplay very soon to get more HP, Strength, Defense, and Luck (in that order of likelihood until HP caps), making her awesome offense and durability come even sooner than before. She truly will be amazing.

9.5/10

[James Bond]

I totally agree with what you said about Mia

[Mekkah]

Weapons and I had a random convo last night about how Rhys can hold an Unlock Staff after 3-1 (transfer from 1-E with deployed Ilyana) which brings his Rhys-speed to Boyd-minus-one-speed. Against enemies with between 18 and 21 AS, this stops him from getting doubled and ORKO'd at base...think Generals, Warriors, Halberdiers, and Dragonmasters. Of course, it also completely ruins his counter, and someone has to trade it to the top of his inventory after he attacks or heals, so it doesn't significantly improve him...but doing terrible to no damage and having 3/4 of your health gone is better than doing decent damage and having 6/4 of your health gone.

[Narga_Rocks]

Weapons and I had a random convo last night about how Rhys can hold an Unlock Staff after 3-1 (transfer from 1-E with deployed Ilyana) which brings his Rhys-speed to Boyd-minus-one-speed. Against enemies with between 18 and 21 AS, this stops him from getting doubled and ORKO'd at base...think Generals, Warriors, Halberdiers, and Dragonmasters. Of course, it also completely ruins his counter, and someone has to trade it to the top of his inventory after he attacks or heals, so it doesn't significantly improve him...but doing terrible to no damage and having 3/4 of your health gone is better than doing decent damage and having 6/4 of your health gone.

It seems like a cool idea, though I have to point out something about the way the game works. If a unit has an equippable weapon, trading will force that weapon to the top. It doesn't matter what you try to do: if you leave a weapon in a units' inventory after moving stuff around, it auto-equips. Since the unlock staff can't be "used" in part 3 (how can there possibly be no chests from 3-2 all the way to 4-3? What was I.S. thinking?) you would have to make sure Rhys has no weapons and then after he heals something, trade the unlock staff to the top of his inventory. If at any time you want Rhys to attack, he needs to find the unit that stole his tome and then he can trade back for it and attack.

[the great haar]

She will double every enemy in the game assuming efficient use and in time she won't even be needing Adept or the crit forge anymore since she actually has a decent Strength growth and promotion gain which will get her to 2 hitting enemies later in part 3.

Are you implying that mia is promoting in part 3 or is this just a badly worded sentence? And if she is promoting in part 3, by what chapter are you assuming she is?

[Narga_Rocks]

Are you implying that mia is promoting in part 3 or is this just a badly worded sentence? And if she is promoting in part 3, by what chapter are you assuming she is?

Why wouldn't she promote in part 3? I held her back (in 3-11) so she promoted in 3-E. If I'd let her she would have promoted in 3-11. It's amazing how much exp she can gain when she is supporting Ike and they just walk through enemies. With Adept she'll kill ~half of them and still get hit exp on the others. In addition, since she has less concrete durability and does less damage in two plain hits, enemies are quite happy to prioritize her rather than Ike on enemy phase. Which is funny because they rarely actually manage to hit her and she frequently blicks them away.

[James Bond]

If you are a fanatic of Mia (like me) you can have her promoted at 3P-7Ch (meaning that you had her doing the most fighting and given her most of BEXP)(in easy mode that's even easier to be accomplished)

Edited March 4, 2010 by Sask

[Narga_Rocks]

If you are a fanatic of Mia (like me) you can have her promoted at 3P-7Ch (meaning that you had her doing the most fighting and given her most of BEXP)(in easy mode that's even easier to be accomplished)

This topic is all about HM, so if you've played HM, when do you get her promoted? (Also, if you are favouring her significantly more than other units, how quickly do you finish chapters?)

[James Bond]

This topic is all about HM, so if you've played HM, when do you get her promoted? (Also, if you are favouring her significantly more than other units, how quickly do you finish chapters?)

sorry I haven't tried HM as of yet...

Edited March 4, 2010 by Sask

[Mekkah]

It seems like a cool idea, though I have to point out something about the way the game works. If a unit has an equippable weapon, trading will force that weapon to the top. It doesn't matter what you try to do: if you leave a weapon in a units' inventory after moving stuff around, it auto-equips. Since the unlock staff can't be "used" in part 3 (how can there possibly be no chests from 3-2 all the way to 4-3? What was I.S. thinking?) you would have to make sure Rhys has no weapons and then after he heals something, trade the unlock staff to the top of his inventory. If at any time you want Rhys to attack, he needs to find the unit that stole his tome and then he can trade back for it and attack.

Didn't know that...but it doesn't really make the situational tactic much worse. Rhys generally has to be walled in and he only needs to carry one tome around. If nothing else he can just not get his tome back at all, though in that case you might as well use Mist.

[Florete]

Didn't know that...but it doesn't really make the situational tactic much worse. Rhys generally has to be walled in and he only needs to carry one tome around. If nothing else he can just not get his tome back at all, though in that case you might as well use Mist.

Well, I also don't think taking Rhys' durability from "lolwut" to "crap" is a very good investment of one of Ilyana's item slots for transfer.

[Narga_Rocks]

Well, I also don't think taking Rhys' durability from "lolwut" to "crap" is a very good investment of one of Ilyana's item slots for transfer.

Yes, if only this game was more like so many of the other fe games with treasure chests every 2 or 3 maps.

An interesting prospect, though, is that it could prevent Mist from getting doubled by swordmasters. At least, once she is within 6 speed of them. However, until her luck growth gets high enough she'd need to stand next to Ike to prevent them from critting her anyway.

[-Cynthia-]

Not sure about the Unlock staff thing. Part of the problem is that it either requires someone to trade with Rhys, or Rhys not to heal or do chip damage that turn. It would seem to make the gap between Rhys and Mist pretty non-existent, since all she has over him is not getting doubled sooner (and worse damage).

I still hold the same view on Oscar's rating that I did before.

[grandjackal]

Whoa whoa whoa, hold up. What's this about the unlock staff? I'm missing something here clearly, there's barely anything to use it on in part 3. What good would it be doing?

[Ether]

If it's equipped,it gives +3 Spd and +1 Def,so it would help his E.Phase durability.

[grandjackal]

If it's equipped,it gives +3 Spd and +1 Def,so it would help his E.Phase durability.

Oh...Huh. I didn't notice staffs gave equipped bonuses in this game, aside from the self-healing ones.

All well and good, but it's not exactly doing him much good. I suppose offensively nothing's changed (he does no damage with his staff tink, or he counters with magic but dies because he doesn't have the proper bonus), but it only has 10 uses, and he has to be traded out for it. I wouldn't consider it that big a deal. It's a nice find, but that's about it.

[Interceptor]

Countering with a staff doesn't reduce the uses of it, so he's fine in that regard.