Kamen Rider Ryuuki Mafia - Game Over

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

Nope. You still have how I am doing it wrong. Took me a minute to think of how to reply to you, so I replied to clipsey first.

But I have noticed one thing while reading your defenses.

They get less and less logical, and more and more defensive. Try to keep the logic as clear as you can, and it will prove to us that you are being less scummy then you currently seem.

I will refuse to acknowledge much more of this hystericness you are falling into. Make sense, or we have no reason to keep you alive.

-.-

I did make my reasoning pretty damn clear. You for example ignored it and called it stupid. I am not using logic BECAUSE I already have made my point clear. Now its your turn to make clear counter to this:

I demand proof about how my nighty lynch was bad idea considering the time it was made is so scummy and unlogical. Because its stupid or noone agrees with it is not a reason.

[13th]

There is no reason to prove that it was a bad idea at the time it was made.

We are trying to stop this frickin' argument before one of us learns to shoot someone through a computer.

And this is proof of what I had said. You get less sensical, and more defensive about a theory none of us are even trying to use, you say you aren't trying to use, but you get so incredibly defensive about it, it makes you look scum.

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

I am incredibly defensive of it because I am considered scum because it. You go own about it being scummy yet when asked how its scummy, you remain silent. Your argument on me being scummy has no base and thus is unlogical. Unless YOU START TO MAKE SENSE, I won't either. DID. I. MAKE. MY. POINT. CLEAR . ENOUGH. OR. DO. YOU. NEED. PICTURES?

[Strawman]

Please do not start this again.

[13th]

I am incredibly defensive of it because I am considered scum because it. You go own about it being scummy yet when asked how its scummy, you remain silent. Your argument on me being scummy has no base and thus is unlogical. Unless YOU START TO MAKE SENSE, I won't either. DID. I. MAKE. MY. POINT. CLEAR . ENOUGH. OR. DO. YOU. NEED. PICTURES?

Sho, Sho...

You don't get it. We have no way to "prove" anything to you. We have tried to use things as proof, and you have turned things around. (We being other people. I'm pretty much finished with this argument.)

As long as we get reactions out of you (The Reaction Test, copyright Kay), we can use it to try and get more potential info.

If we had been able to think of you as town this entire time, we would have ended this back on about page 18. We are on page 37. We have been chasing you in circles this entire time.

So unless you want this to continue with someone else, I am going to ask 2 simple questions.

Why did you vote for who you did (not including the Blitz voters, they've already answered)

Who is scummiest, to you.

And, to no one in particular, where is Proto?

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

If they keep I basing my scumminess with it, I will get back to it as well. its called fair play

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

Sho, Sho...

You don't get it. We have no way to "prove" anything to you. We have tried to use things as proof, and you have turned things around. (We being other people. I'm pretty much finished with this argument.)

As long as we get reactions out of you (The Reaction Test, copyright Kay), we can use it to try and get more potential info.

If we had been able to think of you as town this entire time, we would have ended this back on about page 18. We are on page 37. We have been chasing you in circles this entire time.

So unless you want this to continue with someone else, I am going to ask 2 simple questions.

Why did you vote for who you did (not including the Blitz voters, they've already answered)

Who is scummiest, to you.

And, to no one in particular, where is Proto?

If you call my actions towards nighty scummy, I demand to know why. Its pretty one sided if I don't even know what I am accused for.

I gave you my reasoning, didn't make you happy. I have no reason to go any further.

My votes?

13th: Town or not, he is hurting the town more than helping.

Rapier: Ridiculous accusations towards me.

Can't really say who seems scummy yet because I have been too busy keeping my head from rolling on the floor to think about scumtells. Blame yourselves

[13th]

If you call my actions towards nighty scummy, I demand to know why. Its pretty one sided if I don't even know what I am accused for.

I gave you my reasoning, didn't make you happy. I have no reason to go any further.

My votes?

13th: Town or not, he is hurting the town more than helping.

Rapier: Ridiculous accusations towards me.

Can't really say who seems scummy yet because I have been too busy keeping my head from rolling on the floor to think about scumtells. Blame yourselves

Its not the actions themselves anymore. I don't find the action scummy at all

I find the way you are defending it scummy as hell.

My votes

Rein: Pressure-Silence

Nightmare: I can;t honestly remember. Probably Pressure, if I remember correctly

Sho: Scummy defense of his own logic led to the 20-page-and-counting argument. It is still striking me as scummy

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

You what?

YOU WHAT!?

that makes no sense.

I am accused of scummy action.

I defend it.

Now the action is not scummy but defending it is?

How does that even make sense?

[Kaoz]

Blitz has since flipped Mayor, and there's a lot of people that need to come in more often and talk (basically everyone that's not me, 13th, Rapier, Sho, and to an extent, Strawman). The only semi-exception to this is Kaoz, because he was just subbed in (I do expect more from you soon, though).

Ah my apologies, I'm not completly into the game yet. I will restate my previous offer though that you may ask me about anything you would like me to comment on.

Actually, how do you multiquote? I must've missed the lesson. I can multiquote with the button if its all on one page, but not if its spread across multiple pages.

You can use the button the same way when it's across multiple pages....

[Kay]

You what?

YOU WHAT!?

that makes no sense.

I am accused of scummy action.

I defend it.

Now the action is not scummy but defending it is?

How does that even make sense?

Because you're defending it really obsessively. Most players would, in that situation, just accept that they were going to look worse for their mistakes. You're making an argument about stopping people from mislynching you, but it's night, 13thShadow is already the suggested target for the hypothetical vigilante, and we'll almost certainly have more information after the phase end. It's not necessary yet.

[Jaybee]

I haven't read some of the posts on this page [page 19(40pps)] so I'm just going to say this.

Sho, stop defending it like a fucking madman. Your Nightmare lynch was incredibly desperate, everyone now thinks you're a fucking retard for trying to defend it, and every single move you take makes you look more and more like scum. The further down this path you go, the larger the hole you dig for yourself. Shut up, accept your logic was fucking retarded and that it will probably be used against you anyway, and focus on what's at hand. Like Blitz being lynched.

Speaking of the Blitz lynch, out of the 5 people that voted (Nightmare, Eclipse, StSS, 13th, Sho), I'm not sure what to think of those. Nightmare was on IRC, I believe, at the time where phase ended (he definitely was on about an hour before), so he had plenty of time to change his vote, yet didn't post at all IIRC. Eclipse's vote was a straight counter to Blitz's own shitty logic, and I suppose it could count as a OMGUS given how fast she voted him, but, then again, I don't think Eclipse is as silly as to pull one of those (or double WIFOM... ahh). StSS suppsoedly threw on a late vote, though with the votals as they were then maybe he could have been town trying to secure a lynch? IDK. Or mafia trying to secure the lynch. He appears pretty townish, but you never know, given how it was only Day 1.

Sho's a retard, 13th's been batshit insane this whole match, nothing much to say for both of them.

Oh yeah, going to be really busy the next two days, but I should find time to post at night. Won't need a sub, but just a quick note.

[Nightmare]

Nightmare was on IRC, I believe, at the time where phase ended (he definitely was on about an hour before), so he had plenty of time to change his vote, yet didn't post at all IIRC.

Eh, I didn't see any better options. Though now I regret not voting for Sho instead.

Also, something I missed: I was accused of "keeping track of time" but really, you people are overestimating me. Or rather, being wrong about me. I don't plan, I just do things as they come to me. I'm way more absent-minded than to keep track of time or anything silly like that.

[Kaoz]

I just noticed I never gave my opinions on the votes despite being the one asking for comments in the first place. My apologies.

Nightmare - seemed like a rather random vote that he didn't bother changing later on (though I actually don't know his timezone, so I don't know whether he came back before it was 5-2 or so)

eclipse - I had the impression that she a bit frustrated with the day overall (which is understandable) and Blitz accusing her without much of a reason was the straw that broke the camel's back

13th - eh... he said he was sheeping iirc, so not much room for interpretation

Sho - wanted to save his own skin

Strawman - the vote seemed a bit random initially, but after his clarification appears to be a bit more solid

In general, I think nobody's vote looked too good, but I wouldn't say any single vote tells us a whole lot. There was simply not much to go off and I personally wouldn't have objected the lynch (or rather I didn't), simply because he didn't give us much of a reason to keep him around (or at least I don't recall anything noteworthy)... although I wouldn't have objected a Sho lynch for the same reasons.

---

Something else I wanted to ask... from what I recall, you guys were discussing a few numbers sometime during the day. Would anyone change their guess now that we know we had a Mayor?

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

I stop raging abot nightmare lynch once someone bothers to tell me why its oh so retarted.

I think it was most reasonable lynch given the info we had at that time. Being accused for being scum just for succesting a lynch that I think was reasonable naturally makes me furious.

Think about how you would feel in my shoes

[Kaoz]

I stop raging abot nightmare lynch once someone bothers to tell me why its oh so retarted.

I'll do this once and I expect that you won't reply to this post, ok?

The reason why a Nightmare lynch probably wouldn't have been as good is that you wouldn't have learned a whole lot from it, simply because there are mulitple possibilities as to why he was targeted and you have no way of telling which one it is. If he was targeted randomly his allignment tells you absolutely nothing about the Persuador (since both town and mafia can do that), and if he was targeted on purpose, it still tells you nothing because of the possibility that he was targeted randomly.

In other words, the information you hoped to get through the lynch was impossible to archieve at that point.... I think that's the gist of it...

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

that... actually makes sense. I stop my ragin now that I have finally gained what I want.

[13th]

OK, I have been reading, and have nothing important to say, other than I will not be on much today. I will check again tonight before bed, but other than that, I probably won't be on. Maybe in the space between 830 and 930, and vDIRECTLY after 1430 for a little bit. (MST/GMT-7, I believe, its 650 at the time of this post.) So... yeah

Be back a lot later.

[13th]

I'll do this once and I expect that you won't reply to this post, ok?

The reason why a Nightmare lynch probably wouldn't have been as good is that you wouldn't have learned a whole lot from it, simply because there are mulitple possibilities as to why he was targeted and you have no way of telling which one it is. If he was targeted randomly his allignment tells you absolutely nothing about the Persuador (since both town and mafia can do that), and if he was targeted on purpose, it still tells you nothing because of the possibility that he was targeted randomly.

In other words, the information you hoped to get through the lynch was impossible to archieve at that point.... I think that's the gist of it...

Thank god Kaoz was subbed in. You finally got him to shut up about this.

[Kay]

As long as we get reactions out of you (The Reaction Test, copyright Kay), we can use it to try and get more potential info.

Why did you vote for who you did (not including the Blitz voters, they've already answered)

Who is scummiest, to you.

And, to no one in particular, where is Proto?

You mean WeaponsofMassConstruction, not me.

I thought that at that point, the only way Blitz wouldn't be lynched was if Sho was lynched instead, and while neither looked like a great lynch, Sho seemed less townish to me.

Nightmare/Rein. They're both really good at posting when someone questions their activity level, and then not saying a thing as long as they can get away with it. Townies should talk more of the time, not just when people suspect them of lurking. I was starting to get suspicious of Shinori, too, but Kaoz seems alright.

Asia.

[13th]

You mean WeaponsofMassConstruction, not me.

I thought that at that point, the only way Blitz wouldn't be lynched was if Sho was lynched instead, and while neither looked like a great lynch, Sho seemed less townish to me.

Nightmare/Rein. They're both really good at posting when someone questions their activity level, and then not saying a thing as long as they can get away with it. Townies should talk more of the time, not just when people suspect them of lurking. I was starting to get suspicious of Shinori, too, but Kaoz seems alright.

Asia.

It always seems like that is how Rein and Nightmare play...

But one other who strikes me as suspicious is actually you. You haven't said THAT much, and while most of it was helpful, there's still reasons to suspect you (and everyone else here). Recently, I haven't gotten many reads off of you, and want to see some of the other people's logic.

Currently, the scummiest to me is Sho and Rein. Nightmare is being generally helpful when he posts, but I still don't see much contribution from Rein. And up until now, when Sho was defending it like a madman, he was seeming extremely scummy.

[Rapier]

-.-

I did make my reasoning pretty damn clear. You for example ignored it and called it stupid. I am not using logic BECAUSE I already have made my point clear. Now its your turn to make clear counter to this:

I demand proof about how my nighty lynch was bad idea considering the time it was made is so scummy and unlogical. Because its stupid or noone agrees with it is not a reason.

Because it's ilogical. Let's see, you said that you wanted to know more about Nighty and the persuader, right? Let's suppose that Nighty had been lynched with your idea:

Case A) Nighty is Town:

A1: The persuader is Mafia

A2: The persuader is a Town player who was random or newbish.

WE DON'T REACH ANY CONCLUSIONS BY FOLLOWING THIS PATH. THIS WILL ONLY MINDFUCK US FURTHER.

Case B) Nighty is Mafia:

B1: The persuader is Nighty. He voted himself in order to escape from the eyes of the Towns.

B2: The persuader took a lucky shot and killed a Mafia player

B3: The persuader is a friend of Nighty who voted on him so that he wasn't voted by anyone later.

B1 is possible. B2 is just... Meh. B3... I don't agree with it, since the Mafia's objective is to slip by the Towns instead of appearing on the spotlight, but meh people are different.

Do I still need to explain how your lolgambit is bad? Besides, we had other targets. Blitz had been acting randomly and strangely since the beginning of the game, Rein used to come laugh at some things and give his opinions briefly, Strawman was silent but whenever he got to post he gave his opinions and thoughts, and then there's Nightmare who's awfuly silent. Except you didn't want to lynch Nightmare because of that.

NOW PLEASE DON'T IGNORE THIS PART: This discussion won't bring us anywhere now, we can't discuss opinions and fight because we think differently, which is clearly OUR case. Sho thinks that risky moves like that are normal in D1s and he always acts like a crazy barbarian with a huge axe sooo.... meh, I think that a stupid move is a stupid move regardless of when, 13th... I dunno what he thinks, he's been changing more than the Sun's position on the course of the day.

....

I'll do this once and I expect that you won't reply to this post, ok?

The reason why a Nightmare lynch probably wouldn't have been as good is that you wouldn't have learned a whole lot from it, simply because there are mulitple possibilities as to why he was targeted and you have no way of telling which one it is. If he was targeted randomly his allignment tells you absolutely nothing about the Persuador (since both town and mafia can do that), and if he was targeted on purpose, it still tells you nothing because of the possibility that he was targeted randomly.

In other words, the information you hoped to get through the lynch was impossible to archieve at that point.... I think that's the gist of it...

that... actually makes sense. I stop my ragin now that I have finally gained what I want.

KAOZ CAME SOONER THAN ME, BUT HE DID AN AWESOME JOB NEVERTHELESS.

Now now, I suggest that we discuss more about the players who we think that might be scum/judge their behaviors. You know, if someone dies without saying anything, it's pointless. There's Clipsey's summary to help, too.

[Nightmare]

Nightmare/Rein. They're both really good at posting when someone questions their activity level, and then not saying a thing as long as they can get away with it. Townies should talk more of the time, not just when people suspect them of lurking.

Totally ignoring that about half the other times I posted, I did it when no one even suspected me of lurking, and also failing to mention that my posts actually had some thought behind them? Posts like this are starting to really annoy me, especially when I'm trying to make an effort to be actually helpful.

[eclipse]

You don't necessarily need to SPAM posts, but the general post count in this game is absurdly high, and people's ideas change really quickly.

[Balcerzak]

(I still don't understand what that "Multiquote" button does.)

[spoiler=A story in 3 parts]

"Multiquote" as a button on its own does nothing. It is merely a toggle that only affects a new post if you use the big "Add Reply" button at either the very top or very bottom of the page, and does not affect anything if the tiny individual "Reply" buttons attached to every single post are used. When the "Add Reply" button is used, all of the posts that were toggled with the "Multiquote" button will be inserted into the new reply window.

These posts do not have to be from the same page, nor even from the same thread, as I have toggled some posts in one tab (e.g. an RP thread, indicating I was going to reply to them eventually but decided to clear my head a bit and ponder the course of action before actually starting to write), wandered around in other tabs for awhile until I forgot about the original thread, decided to reply to something light-hearted and silly in another thread in the meantime (usually also with multiquote, because that's the only time I ever use "Add Reply" instead of individual "Reply" or "Fast Reply") only to be surprised with posts I wasn't expecting to be quoting.