13th Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I'll admit my logic behind my vote for Blitz was not the best, and I myself was not very confident in the vote overall. I was torn between him, Sho, and Rapier. Sho and Rapier however began to look less suspicious because they were both caught in this huge misunderstanding which made Sho's actions look more scummy than they actually were, imo. Rapier was a big cause of the misunderstanding. Upon looking back in the thread and trying to make up my mind I stumbled upon a few posts by Blitz which seemed to help fuel Rapier's confusion to Sho's posts, which is what caused this ridiculous argument that is still happening and is not getting us anywhere new. With that and how many posts he had made, it looked like he was just making too many theories without solid logic and was distracting the day's discussion. There was a reason why I wanted him to explain/defend himself more because I was not confident in that vote. As for other people voting him: Nightmare - Didn't like fluff, became less sure of Blitz's scumminess. Didn't see a better option. Eclipse- DIdn't like his fluff. Though she really didn't like him voting her. Seemed rather defensive about that. 13th - Was always following right behind Eclipse. Didn't like how Blitz sided with Sho and called Eclipse scummy? Sho - Wanted to ensure a lynch that was not him. Strawman - Explanation above. Again, thank you for explaining yourself As for me, I sheeped, yes, but with my own reasons (I always do) I tend to follow who I think has the best logic. Usually ends up being eclipse, because she's logical. But I didn't like Sho's scumminess, and when Blitz went in defending him, I thought he was just as scummy, and therefore went with what I thought was the logical assumption. Sho and Blitz are both Mafia, Blitz is trying to defend his teammate. When this turned out, I started to reconsider some things. Sho is still showing scummy, but Rapier has shown quite a bit of scummy also. Core is still alternating scum and town on me, and I can't get proper reads on most of the others. Only JB and Eclipse are showing as town to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawman Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Also, this argument seriously is not getting anyone anywhere because all of you are just getting mad and not actually listening to each other or anything. Please calm down. It will be to everyone's benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I'm trying to drop it, Strawman. But I keep thinking of counterarguments to the counterarguments Sho makes to Rapier's counterarguments to his Counterarguments to my counterarguments to... Needless to say, I expect we will be arguing this until the end of the phase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 oh and almost forgot to mention @Rapier I just want this huge misunderstanding to end. If beating you to a bloody pankake with hammer is what it takes, so be it. I know keeping this on is scummy but I feel I must take this to the end before we waste any more lynches because of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 I'm not mad. . .mildly irritated, but not mad. Awesome music calms me down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliriyum Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 New list~ Town Strawman- separated by a line because he's the only person who seems decidedly townish --------------- Kay- Seems a tad selective when she posts, but otherwise pretty good. Rein- average rein, provides input and leaves Kaoz- Shinori seemed like a confused townie to me(or confused mafia, idk) Kaoz has posted nothing unreasonable since he's subbed in. Eclipse- She continuously focused in on how bad Sho's logic was. The thing that bothers me is that she didn't complain in the least bit when he first introduced it, but now its a problem when its no longer relevant. So...mixed feelings, hard to place her. Sho- Had a questionable bit of logic that really should have been dismissed long ago. Bad logic =!= scum IMO Iris- Actually hasn't contributed a whole lot lately but I think she's been busy/drunk Bizz-Same as Iris, but even less contributions. Seems uninterested/uninvolved. Supposedly its just a D1 thing. Nightmare- His posts are usually pretty insightful when he posts, just need more. JB- meh not really any reads at all and is generally less active(timezone I guess) Rapier- Seems like he's trying to be protown but he's failing at it. Him and Sho kept going in circles, seriously derailing things and clouding people's judgement. 13th- Had several iffy moments and there is little cost to his death because nobody cares if the persuader dies. Mafia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 New list~ Town Strawman- separated by a line because he's the only person who seems decidedly townish --------------- Kay- Seems a tad selective when she posts, but otherwise pretty good. Rein- average rein, provides input and leaves Kaoz- Shinori seemed like a confused townie to me(or confused mafia, idk) Kaoz has posted nothing unreasonable since he's subbed in. Eclipse- She continuously focused in on how bad Sho's logic was. The thing that bothers me is that she didn't complain in the least bit when he first introduced it, but now its a problem when its no longer relevant. So...mixed feelings, hard to place her. Sho- Had a questionable bit of logic that really should have been dismissed long ago. Bad logic =!= scum IMO Iris- Actually hasn't contributed a whole lot lately but I think she's been busy/drunk Bizz-Same as Iris, but even less contributions. Seems uninterested/uninvolved. Supposedly its just a D1 thing. Nightmare- His posts are usually pretty insightful when he posts, just need more. JB- meh not really any reads at all and is generally less active(timezone I guess) Rapier- Seems like he's trying to be protown but he's failing at it. Him and Sho kept going in circles, seriously derailing things and clouding people's judgement. 13th- Had several iffy moments and there is little cost to his death because nobody cares if the persuader dies. Mafia So you mean that people with bad logic should be ignored rather than questioned about why they keep believing in it so vehemently... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Also wouldn't my case be just like Sho's, following your logic? :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliriyum Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 No, questioning somebody's logic is probably the best, especially if you can help them understand why it is bad. We don't all think the same way, so obviously we are going to have different ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 No, questioning somebody's logic is probably the best, especially if you can help them understand why it is bad. We don't all think the same way, so obviously we are going to have different ideas. Yeah, correct a scummy player to see what he'll do, and then forgive him. That doesn't work, man. DX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliriyum Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Yeah, correct a scummy player to see what he'll do, and then forgive him. That doesn't work, man. DX You're automatically assuming that they are scummy though. They are only scummy if their bad logic makes sense from a mafia standpoint. If they are just having a derp moment, how is that scummy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 You're automatically assuming that they are scummy though. They are only scummy if their bad logic makes sense from a mafia standpoint. If they are just having a derp moment, how is that scummy? How is one supposed to judge them? So what's wrong with me, thinking that Sho was an opportunist when the persuader voted on Nightmare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Uh...right. Having just read the past few pages, Sho really isn't looking good to me. He said he discarded his "lynch nighty" theory and yet...this post seems to imply that he's still sticking to it (because he seems to be defending it still?). No, no, I'm not trying to start up that argument again, just saying what comes to mind. That, and all the emotion/commotion makes him seem like the prime target for lynching, for the next day. That Blitz incident makes me want to withdraw, but for the time being, I'm not seeing any better options. That's about all I can think of right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Im not sticking to it. I just doent think it was as bad of a theory as people think given the time it was made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliriyum Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 How is one supposed to judge them? So what's wrong with me, thinking that Sho was an opportunist when the persuader voted on Nightmare? Put their idea in perspective and think about it. I don't think your scummy because you suspect Sho, but here's my refutation to that: Why would Sho be so opportunistic on D1? The only reason he would push a Nightmare lynch as mafia on D1 is to protect his fellow mafia members. The cost of looking odd isn't worth the minor benefit of preventing a teammate from being D1 lynched(AKA its not hard to avoid being lynched on D1). I think Sho is smarter than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Fair enough, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Uh...right. Having just read the past few pages, Sho really isn't looking good to me. He said he discarded his "lynch nighty" theory and yet...this post seems to imply that he's still sticking to it (because he seems to be defending it still?). No, no, I'm not trying to start up that argument again, just saying what comes to mind. That, and all the emotion/commotion makes him seem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 lol my connection being a connection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Uh. . .copypasta fail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 You know nighty, for a second there, I did think this all just one big joke you all desided to make for me. -.- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Uh. . .copypasta fail? Got a hiccup while posting that, so I guess it posted twice and the second time it got messed up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Put their idea in perspective and think about it. I don't think your scummy because you suspect Sho, but here's my refutation to that: Why would Sho be so opportunistic on D1? The only reason he would push a Nightmare lynch as mafia on D1 is to protect his fellow mafia members. The cost of looking odd isn't worth the minor benefit of preventing a teammate from being D1 lynched(AKA its not hard to avoid being lynched on D1). I think Sho is smarter than that. Well, couldn't he have done it just to make lemonade with his lemon? But... I guess you're right. Meh, I'm tired of this discussion. By the way, Clipsey's summaries should help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawman Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 He has a point Rapier. It is not very often when you are going to find that scum buddies are protecting/defending/whatevering each other, especially when if both of those players already appear scummy. Its way too big of a risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawman Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Though I guess that did happen in FE4 mafia. But town was playing horribly that game, noticed how obvi scum the mafias actions were, but failed to actually do anything about it. So still that move(which I believe was you rapier putting in a last minute vote to get the lynch on a town instead of scumbuddy core) only worked because the town being so fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Lol no, I was lynched as soon as I was subbed for slipping something up and not answering why I did that (because of FE10, which I've been playing on that time and nothing else mattered). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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