Rate The Unit 10: Paison

[PuffPuff]

Dat Rules (borrowed/stolen from Integrity)

- Ratings are assumed to be on Normal.

- Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted. If somebody has already given good reason for a score +/- half a point from yours, you can decide not to explain your score, but I always encourage personal reasoning. Incredibly low scores or high scores without proper justification will not be counted. Don't put in some random text thinking it'd count as justification. Put in at least a little thought and give REAL reasoning.

+/- ≤1 point extra regarding personality/appearance is encouraged, but no more. If you exercise your bias privileges, please do so explicitly. Also, if your vote is already a 10/10 or greater than 9 and you give a full point of bias, The score may not exceed 10!

- Numerical votes out of 10, or something proportional to it. Make it easy to calculate for my sake.

- Every ranking phase ends from 2100 to 2200 EST. Every ranking phase starts from 2200 EST to 2300 EST. Do the math if you are in another timezone!

- I will insist you do not use the "Not X" reason on any character, where X is another unit. If you do, your vote will be thrown out.

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- Assume that the character in question is being recruited.

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Clerbe: 3.91

Robin: 4.45

Fols:6.78

Grey: 6.85

Clea: 7.58

Ruka: 7.89

Cliff: 8.31

Silk: 8.47

Alm: 9.59

The best Bow user in this game. Gets good HP and Str. But all of his other stats are mediocre. His skill needs some improvement from the Lion Head statues. This problem can also be resolved with the Holy Bow since it offers 100 hit. Upon 2 class changes, he can become the best unit class in this game, Bowman. His awesome movement will more than make up for him being harder to raise. Because of having a hard time keeping up with your team due to crappy movement that he had in his other two classes. It might be wise to promote him ASAP because of this. Go ahead. Class changing bonuses are more rewarding in this game than any other in the series. But because he takes awhile to get this good.

7.9/10

Edited June 23, 2012 by アイネ

[Mekkah]

As good as his combat can be, he's still a bow user.

4/10

[Emperor Hardin]

As good as his combat can be, he's still a bow user.

4/10

Bow users can attack at point blank and have five range in this game.

Any PYTHON is pretty cool and wins the title of Best Default Bow User.

8/10+1 bias for his name= 9/10

Edited June 23, 2012 by Emperor Hardin

[Colonel M]

As good as his combat can be, he's still a bow user.

4/10

Make this my vote too.

[Emperor Hardin]

Make this my vote too.

But Bow Users are awesome in this game.

Their attack range is 1-5!

[Quirino]

Have you ever played this game at all? Bow users are the best units in this game. Why? Because they have a standard 1-3 range, yes that's right: 1 to 3. When they have a weapon equipped or when promoted to Bow Knight, they even have 1-5 range. You must have known that if you've ever played this game at all. So your argument about "he's still a bow user" doesn't make any sense at all.

Well okay, Python probably already has 1-5 range when you obtain him because you should already have a steel bow by then. He does come underleveled and he has low skill, then I mean LOW, which makes him miss quite a lot of attacks, which means he'll probably not be promoted by the time you've reached chapter 3 and have not abused shrine battles. His stats overall are not very impressive except for his strength. But if you promote him to bow knight he has 8 movement AND 1-5 range, which makes Python a 8/10: bad statwise but his class makes him into one of the best units because it's simply the best class in game, possibly in the series (although I heard that sorcerers in FE13 may surpass this class). The 2 points down is from his difficult first few levels and his availability, but he's more than definitely worth leveling up.

So yes, 8/10. No bias because of no personality.

Edited June 23, 2012 by WindMage25

[Parrhesia]

His name is PYTHON and the best class in the game he promotes to is BOW KNIGHT. Also he has the best mug in the game. 10/10

Edited June 23, 2012 by Furetchen

[riariadne]

Python is pretty good. He can do very solid damage on each player phase with his good strength (by FE2's definition of good, at least), and with 1-3 range with the plain bow only further increased by equipping a steel bow or better, he's not sitting around like the usual archer on enemy phase either. A Steel Bow gives him an excellent attack range, which is a big boon over other foot units.

It gets better for Python as he moves up in life. Sniper class bases can patch up his poor growths easily, and makes his damage output even better, and increasing his attack range even more. At Bow Knight, he can have 8 move, and the class gives 1-5 range. A hypothetical quick ring bow knight Python has 13 move and 5 more squares of attack range and 40 speed. And frankly that's pretty awesome if not that likely to happen.

That's not to say Python is perfect by any definition of the word. Python, like any unit, has his flaws. His bases are not very good other than his passable strength, and he starts off at level 3, which means promotion to Sniper is quite a bit off, and promotion to Bow Knight might not actually occur without heavy usage in later chapters. His non-strength and HP growths are atrocious, though his speed is pretty average by FE2's standards but still awful. Due to promotion mechanics this isn't as crippling as it could be, though, but it's still definitely a big mark against the guy.

It's sort of like having half a siege tome's range but keeping enemy phase, and if he reaches third tier he's awesome. That's Python.

9.5/10, factoring in a +1 because this guy is Python.

[Refa]

But if you promote him to bow knight he has 8 movement AND 1-5 range, which makes Python a 8/10: bad statwise but his class makes him into one of the best units because it's simply the best class in game, possibly in the series (although I heard that sorcerers in FE13 may surpass this class).

Falcoknight is much better. :\

[Dark Sage]

As good as his combat can be, he's still a bow user.

4/10

This man speaks the truth. Make that mine as well

[Byte2222]

As good as his combat can be, he's still a bow user.

4/10

Not to be rude but we were playing the same game right? The one where 1-3 default bow range allows counterattacks and out-ranging Mages, 1-5 equipped range massively outpaces other units, particularly in the desert and 8 move at third tier combines with 1-5 to make bow knights tactical monsters?

Anyway, the reason I've not been voting lately is because I don't think I have a substantial enough opinion on Cleive or Force to be casting a vote with. This changes now, Python (can we please use the most recent names? Please?) is the best in his utterly broken class and has enough tactical utility to warrant a place on any team. It only gets better when you get the holy bow to fix his accuracy issue and he remains absurdly useful to the very end of the game. Despite this his growths bar strength are a little weak so, even though he can target anything on the map, he's still more of a support unit and won't get too many kills to his name. That said, that's some pretty damn versatile support.

8.5/10, sightly low growths but a completely broken class.

And may I repeat: can we have the more recent names? Pretty please?

[SRC]

As good as his combat can be, he's still a bow user.

4/10

Funny, I found his combat to be complete garbage, but being a bow user saved him.

1-5 range is awesome as is 8 movement range, but when you have single digit speed and defense as a 3rd tier unit, you're doing it wrong.

4.5/10 Not much better of an archer than Robin tbh.

Edited June 23, 2012 by SRC

[The_Purple_Knight]

Python is pretty good. He can do very solid damage on each player phase with his good strength (by FE2's definition of good, at least), and with 1-3 range with the plain bow only further increased by equipping a steel bow or better, he's not sitting around like the usual archer on enemy phase either. A Steel Bow gives him an excellent attack range, which is a big boon over other foot units.

It gets better for Python as he moves up in life. Sniper class bases can patch up his poor growths easily, and makes his damage output even better, and increasing his attack range even more. At Bow Knight, he can have 8 move, and the class gives 1-5 range. A hypothetical quick ring bow knight Python has 13 move and 5 more squares of attack range and 40 speed. And frankly that's pretty awesome if not that likely to happen.

That's not to say Python is perfect by any definition of the word. Python, like any unit, has his flaws. His bases are not very good other than his passable strength, and he starts off at level 3, which means promotion to Sniper is quite a bit off, and promotion to Bow Knight might not actually occur without heavy usage in later chapters. His non-strength and HP growths are atrocious, though his speed is pretty average by FE2's standards but still awful. Due to promotion mechanics this isn't as crippling as it could be, though, but it's still definitely a big mark against the guy.

It's sort of like having half a siege tome's range but keeping enemy phase, and if he reaches third tier he's awesome. That's Python.

9.5/10, factoring in a +1 because this guy is Python.

Take off the bias for an 8.5/10 for my vote.

Edited June 24, 2012 by The_Purple_Knight

[Mikado]

Unless you give Alm a bow, he's a pretty solid archer.

8/10

[Esaka]

Are we playing the same game here people?

Because last time I checked, bow users WTFpwn in Gaiden.

8/10

[SRC]

I guess not. A few people posted about how much promotion helps Paison, but he'd be lucky to gain more than a few points of strength, and a point of defense or so. Here, have some stat bases:

Bow Knight: HP 36 Str 16 Skl 8 Spd 8 Def 10

For comparison, a couple other high move classes:

Gold Knight: HP 40 Str 18 Skl 7 Spd 12 Def 13

Demon Fighter: HP 36 Str 15 Skl 16 Spd 18 Def 11 Res+15

Sure bows are an awesome weapon, and a character with great stats such as Alm or Cliff can put them to great use. Unlike those two, Paison is not a front line unit. His defenses are mediocre and he can easily be doubled by generics. Heck, this guy is just marginally stronger than Archer!Robin until well into 3rd tier (where his strength can no longer be exceeded by class promotion bases.) That is not to say that he is unable to make decent use of bows. They are great for crippling magic users, outranging other bow users, and pinging the occasional melee unit, but they are more of a saving grace than anything. If bows had, say, 1-2 range instead of 1-5, Paison would be easily worse than Cleive.

[Byte2222]

I guess not. A few people posted about how much promotion helps Paison, but he'd be lucky to gain more than a few points of strength, and a point of defense or so. Here, have some stat bases:

Bow Knight: HP 36 Str 16 Skl 8 Spd 8 Def 10

For comparison, a couple other high move classes:

Gold Knight: HP 40 Str 18 Skl 7 Spd 12 Def 13

Demon Fighter: HP 36 Str 15 Skl 16 Spd 18 Def 11 Res+15

Sure bows are an awesome weapon, and a character with great stats such as Alm or Cliff can put them to great use. Unlike those two, Paison is not a front line unit. His defenses are mediocre and he can easily be doubled by generics. Heck, this guy is just marginally stronger than Archer!Robin until well into 3rd tier (where his strength can no longer be exceeded by class promotion bases.) That is not to say that he is unable to make decent use of bows. They are great for crippling magic users, outranging other bow users, and pinging the occasional melee unit, but they are more of a saving grace than anything. If bows had, say, 1-2 range instead of 1-5, Paison would be easily worse than Cleive.

There are a few things I want to say:

Python's defence is nothing to write home about but this is Gaiden: growths are low and the average defence growth on Alm's side (excluding Mycen) is 20.7. General low growths also mean that the actual difference from Python's 5.6 points below the average is fairly small.

Python has a fairly high HP growth.

Promotion changes a lot of things and this is one I'd like to point out. Look at a level 10 generic enemy Paladin and a level 1 generic enemy Gold Knight:

Paladin: HP 43, Str 17, Skl 10, Spd 13, Def 13

Gold Knight: HP 40, Str 18, Skl 7, Spd 12, Def 13

Those enemy growths (150% HP, 50% everything else) really hurt and enemies promoting changes the pace of the game in favour of your units: enemies will always have class bases for stats after promotion but your units have class bases plus whatever they had before that was above the bases. tl;dr level 1 player unit beats level 1 enemy unit, level 10 enemy unit beats level 10 player unit. I think I had a better point but it's escaped me.

Promoting to Sniper doesn't help Python that much (it helps retrieve screwed stats), promoting to Bow Knight helps him an awful lot (+3 move, +2 base range and retrieving screwed stats).

I agree that Python on his own really isn't that great and it's his class that makes him so good. In my experience he's not really useful for much more than potshots but like you said bows really help his versatility.

[PuffPuff]

Tallied.

[PuffPuff]

As good as his combat can be, he's still a bow user.

4/10

Make this my vote too.

This man speaks the truth. Make that mine as well

Shit. Forgot.

Um...you realize that bow units can actually attack during enemy phase in this game. Nope, not counting these.

Funny, I found his combat to be complete garbage, but being a bow user saved him.

1-5 range is awesome as is 8 movement range, but when you have single digit speed and defense as a 3rd tier unit, you're doing it wrong.

4.5/10 Not much better of an archer than Robin tbh.

Your forgetting that his good Attk over Robins should make him more worthy to get him a higher rating than this.

Edited June 25, 2012 by アイネ

[SRC]

Your forgetting that his good Attk over Robins should make him more worthy to get him a higher rating than this.

Heck, this guy is just marginally stronger than Archer!Robin until well into 3rd tier (where his strength can no longer be exceeded by class promotion bases.

Robin's promotions to sniper and arch knight somewhat negate Paison's leads. He will have a few points of strength over Robin into the later archer and sniper levels, but once they promote they will once again be even. Still Paison's growths and starting level are still probably better than what Robin has to offer (better base speed). However a 4 point difference is ludicrous.