[NOC] Volcanic Anonymafia - Game Over

[C. C.]

Moeblobs, while I don't mind your posting style and I don't think it makes your posts any harder to read, if even one person does, IMO you should stop doing it

*wrong quoted text in the last spoiler but you get the point

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

I'm interested on Failbaddon's reasoning, because he focused on Bored for the entirety of D1. I believe he should also share reads with us and out what he thinks about the situation overall, else he's just applying tunnel vision towards his only scumread. I'm sure you can have more than one scumread on a Mafia, even if you're busy.

##Vote: Failbaddon

I also dislike the Flaming wagon because he was legitimatelly busy and inactive, I believe we should give him a chance to justify himself at least and focus on the issues we have infront of us, aka Pasadena/Bored/Fail/Moeblobs/Me/Invisible. To be honest, I see the last votes on his D1 wagon as awfully opportunistic because we all knew he couldn't answer us in time.

Also, I feel that you are guilty of some of the same things you are accusing me of. Everything I said to you before phase end on D1 still stands. I feel that your case on Invisible wasn't presented very strongly. I feel that you yourself spent more time building a case on me rather than strengthening your case on Invisible. If you think my vote on Invisible was weak and I spent more time posting about other players, then you're guilty of building a stronger case on me despite never changing your vote from Invisible after it got there.

And why should I not talk about other players even if I'm voting someone else? If I'm constantly posting only about the person I'm voting, then I'm going to develop tunnel vision, which isn't particularly helpful. I could have continued to build my case on Invisible, but I didn't see anything that stood out to me that I felt hadn't been addressed that had to be. My reasons for thinking Invisible was scum near the end of D1 were actually the same as my original thoughts had been, so I felt no need to add anything new to it. (Also, you yourself admitted that no one else did the same, so this is hardly unique to me.)

Finally, if you want to know the truth ... near the final thirty minutes or so, when Invisible was getting his last reads out, I was starting to have doubts. But I've seen this community second guess themselves from a scum lynch so many times. Flaming Hot was the only other viable wagon at the time. I committed to the Invisible lynch, hoping that it would flip scum, and it didn't.

I think I spotted a contradiction here. He calls on Moeblobs for calling him but voting on Invisible, then he justifies himself saying that calling for other players and voting someone else is not scummy. Hypocritical read, anyone?

I also dislike how you say you doubted Invisible flipping town. We were all mistaken by it, you're not the only one who's guilty. Don't try to justify yourself or make excuses. Instead, help us so that we find our first scum and make it even.

Nothing you said about Invisible particularly stood out to me at least. Not until Invisible attacked you and you attacked him back. "Textblobs" ornot, I feel that your case lacked presence until the very end. Also, if I didn't make any responses to Invisible, it's because I had nothing particularly new to add. What should I have done, repeat, "I still think Invisible is scummy for reasons I have already repeated over and over again until phase end?

I felt you just abandoned his case, to be honest. I don't remember you referring to Invisible at all after you unvoted him. Later in the phase you voted him again, though. I do understand your point that saying the same thing over and over again is pointless, but I also don't remember much from you until near end phase.

Also,

You parked your vote on the same wagon just as long as I did. I don't know whether you had second thoughts or not, but this sounds funny when you also vote parked on Invisible for most of D1.

Ngh, not false dictomy again... See, you're the only one who thought your vote was bad 30 minutes before phase end. You don't defend yourself by attacking the player who accused you, Pasa. You defend yourself by justifying your actions, else you're using this excuse as a scapegoat.

Do you ever read. It wasn't UNTIL the last half an hour or so that I started to have doubts. I started to have doubts THEN, as opposed to BEFORE, because before that approximately thirty minutes before phase end happened I still felt that he was the scummiest.

You honestly believed he was the scummiest player around and then, 30 minutes before the end, you thought he wasn't scummy anymore? Why such a 180 degrees flip at a sudden? I'm disappointed that I'm the only one who dislikes this "hey I thought he was town but I was too late oh well" excuse because, honestly, this is an useless appeal to emotion and an attempt to look better by saying you wouldn't have voted him.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

Now continuing my post because for some reason there was something wrong with the quotes and I couldn't figure out what was wrong with them.

Working off the Space Marine NK, I have reason to believe that he was on to something. Taking a look at his reads, he found Mormegil, Flaming Hot, and Failbaddon scummy. I stated what I didn't like about FH earlier, but he hasn't really responded since forever ago so I'll hold off on him for now, and I don't know much about the Fail case except for what I read about from these last couple posts before me. Gonna talk about Mormegil in a sec.

I believe SM was a legit town player. No one suspected him, he made good points even though he had just a few posts, it's highly unlikely that he'd be mislynched... I believe this is a simple conclusion.

Also not liking Mormegil anyway because of his pretty bad Invisible vote (really, you don't think that Invisible defended himself?), he jumped around his votes a lot as well (including a weird prod vote on Senbonzakura AFTER he had already attacked other players, so it came out of nowhere basically). He attacked Bored for a while but never voted him...why? His scumhunting is mostly just little comments, and when he starts to make a little bit of a point on someone he doesn't push it and kinda backs away. Looks oddly hesitant. Hence, for now, I'll place my vote here.

##Vote Mormegil

I wasn't reluctant on voting Bored. As I said, he genuinely believed himself to be right even though people like Fail questioned him. His answer was the same always, so unless I was going to lynch him for it, I shouldn't have voted him at that point, as we still had a lot to go through. I didn't vote Invisible back then because we had many votes on him already, I found it unnecessary. I voted Senbonzakura because his post had been recent and I hoped he'd come back soon to explain himself and say something more substantial. I just miss being more active during D1.

I don't see how I jumped around a lot, since I only voted three players, without counting the RVS vote. Or rather, I don't understand how you can call someone for being jumpy and, at the same time, calling him for not voting. My vote on Fail was terrible because we were near phase end and he wasn't going to get lynched for sure, I have to admit, but my point agaisnt him still stands, as I really dislike his tunnelvision towards Bored.

"I don't have a real defense, so give me something I can argue with"

That's all I could say after I addressed Inviible, Pasa, Bored, Moeblobs and Senbonzakura before being called for "not scumhunting". I was like, "what.". I do understand I didn't press my case agaisnt any of them, though, because I made just a slight observation over Pasa and Moeblobs' posts, focusing more on Bored and Invisible.

Also, if your top tier suspect is BK , why are you not voting for him? I do hope you'll at least set a vote later, since I understand it's hard to catch up with so many pages.

[Rain Nijika]

Ugh, this fighting is going to get us no where. Moeblobs, your statement that no one else was having an issue with your posting style is incorrect. If you had read my posts, you would notice that I had in fact asked you to tone down your RP some. In addition, I have been finding it very hard to read both your and Pasedena's posts. They both reek of rudeness and hostility, whether it was meant or not. You currently are doing a classic example of tunneling. Consider backing of Pasedena for now and letting that dust settle. Take a look at other people and then come back and see how things lie with Pas.

[Aizen]

Okay so every time I try and make some sense out of the Pasadena vs. Moeblobs argument, all I get is unnecessary bickering and arguing over stupid shit. Seriously guys can we take a deep breath and not take this all so personally? Or at least save this shit for postgame? I think the fact that you guys are getting more and more emotional is making this whole thing blown up more and more. So let's calm down and try and get back to the game okay? Okay.

That being said onto scumhunting.

@Mormegil: I don't think he looked as obvtown as you're putting him out to be, so I can't really say that. On top of that, I don't think that in a game where the only way to kill off scum is through lynching, wouldn't you want to kill off any town who is on to something rather than someone who won't get mislynched? Scum only needs two more mislynches to win after all. Just my two cents on the matter.

Your vote on Senbonzakura was strange (not to mention pretty weak) because you didn't mention him once before (but mentioned guys like Bored a TON) and then voted him, instead of the guys you'd been mentioning. You already mentioned your vote on Fail being bad, and the vote on Invisible was debatable since yes we were trying to avoid universal loss, but at the same time your reasoning wasn't good at all (which I already mentioned). My other point about you not pushing any of your cases still stands as well.

[C. C.]

@Bored

Moeblobs has been aggressive on the top scumread of Moeblobs, mostly because there is nobody else with activity that Moeblobs suspects at the current time, aside from you, Bored, but you haven't done much of anything.

Moeblobs will make a concession and drop the third person in relation to others, but not in relation to Moeblobs. Moeblobs does not think you should be hunting by tone anyway.

[All Might]

So many walls...

Anyways, Pasa reads town because while he tone got unnecessarily hostile near the end of the argument with Moeblobs, it's also feels more frustrated townie than scum, because of the buildup in the hostility. Hostile scum are generally more off-the-bat, if that makes sense. Moeblobs feels like town because I don't know why she'd use an argument of pushing a mislynch if she was scum. Feels more like she genuinely believes Pasa is scum and doesn't care what she has to use to get it across, whereas scum would be more self-aware, IMO.

On another note, I dislike how Mormegil's posts generally tend to be analyzing one person's posts and pushing them for their bulk, and then voting someone entirely different due to a one or two-line reason. At the beginning, he votes Pasadena, but focuses his next post on Bored, Invisible, and Moeblobs. His next post is almost entirely dedicated towards Bored, with a bit against SM, but again with a Sen vote at the end. Next post has him analyze mainly Invisible and then suddenly backtrack and say he thinks most of SM's posts are fine, even though the last post implied he thought SM was slightly scummy because of what he thought was a soft Moeblobs defence. His next post after that says that Invisible is his main scumread, even though at this point he's still voting Sen. Then he votes Fail the next post, echoing Bored, and then finally switches to deadline vote Invisible. He partially makes his Invisible vote out to be a deadline choice between him and Flaming Hot, even though he's actually been scumreading Invisible all phase. Feels like a way to push blame from himself away for what he knows is an upcoming mislynch. Then again on D2 he made a post analyzing Pasa, but with a Fail vote.

tl dr; Morm seems to think that his vote is better served prodding secondary scumreads to come in and post rather than on his primary scumread himself, which is pretty suspicious considering he just called out Frank for not voting his top scumread.

[Estelle]

##Vote: Mormegil

Reasons were explained yesterday and today he continues his wishy washy posting where he spends 90% of a post attacking someone and votes someone for having low content. You vote Fail for low content then spend an entire post attacking Pasa. I also don't like the way he talks about other users

I believe SM was a legit town player. No one suspected him, he made good points even though he had just a few posts, it's highly unlikely that he'd be mislynched... I believe this is a simple conclusion.

This is extremely scummy

As I said, he genuinely believed himself to be right even though people like Fail questioned him.

How do you know that Bored is GENUINE about anything when he is still alive and could easily be lying scum?

[Estelle]

Also voteparking inactives is an easy way to avoid committing to anything because if they never respond you never have to do anything else.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

On another note, I dislike how Mormegil's posts generally tend to be analyzing one person's posts and pushing them for their bulk, and then voting someone entirely different due to a one or two-line reason. At the beginning, he votes Pasadena, but focuses his next post on Bored, Invisible, and Moeblobs.

You can't compare a RVS vote with an after RVS vote. Also, if I have something to say about other players aside from the player I just voted, I will do so.

His next post is almost entirely dedicated towards Bored, with a bit against SM, but again with a Sen vote at the end.

My post was not agaisnt SM, I just asked him a question. The only player I addressed was Bored, and I explained why I didn't vote him. How many times must I say that having voted Bored would have only made me waste time? I already knew his excuse, I wanted to hear more from other players first before setting my vote on my top scumread. Besides, "top scumread" is a strong thing to say - I had a few points agaisnt him, but none were conclusive. I felt like looking on as many players as I could before voting someone definitely.

Next post has him analyze mainly Invisible and then suddenly backtrack and say he thinks most of SM's posts are fine, even though the last post implied he thought SM was slightly scummy because of what he thought was a soft Moeblobs defence.

I asked him a question to see what he'd tell me, to check his reaction. I can't expect to conclude that, based on a slight thing, he is Moeblobs' scumbuddy. And what's wrong with addressing Invisible and SM again?

His next post after that says that Invisible is his main scumread, even though at this point he's still voting Sen. Then he votes Fail the next post, echoing Bored, and then finally switches to deadline vote Invisible. He partially makes his Invisible vote out to be a deadline choice between him and Flaming Hot, even though he's actually been scumreading Invisible all phase. Feels like a way to push blame from himself away for what he knows is an upcoming mislynch. Then again on D2 he made a post analyzing Pasa, but with a Fail vote.

tl dr; Morm seems to think that his vote is better served prodding secondary scumreads to come in and post rather than on his primary scumread himself, which is pretty suspicious considering he just called out Frank for not voting his top scumread.

I was voting Sen until the end because I hoped to see content from him. A silly thought, I admit, I should focus on my targets rather than work to get info from other people, because apparently getting info is a bad thing. Also, saying that I was responsible for making Invisible be chosen as a lynch candidate is quite an exageration, as the same could be said about those who voted after me, as they could've chosen Flaming as well. By the way, the way you address Flaming here seems to me as if you know he's scum. Until you can prove this, you can't blame me for mislynching Invisible. I really don't understand how I am "pushing the blame away from myself".

What you say is true, but you distorted my words and my actions during your post, and that bothers me.

[Estelle]

How many times must I say that having voted Bored would have only made me waste time?

This is such a garbage excuse. If you think someone is scum you make a case against them and vote them, and you only back off when no one else seems to buy it. You attacked him when he had 2 votes and Senbon had 1, didn't vote him, then made another post later when the votes were the same and chose to vote Senbon. In either of those posts you could have made him tied for biggest wagon, how is that counter productive? Because he won't defend himself well? Why does this matter to you if you think he's scum?

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

This is such a garbage excuse. If you think someone is scum you make a case against them and vote them, and you only back off when no one else seems to buy it. You attacked him when he had 2 votes and Senbon had 1, didn't vote him, then made another post later when the votes were the same and chose to vote Senbon. In either of those posts you could have made him tied for biggest wagon, how is that counter productive? Because he won't defend himself well? Why does this matter to you if you think he's scum?

How can you think someone is definitely scum on D1? I wanted to get as many info and reads as possible, because my reads on Bored were still weak. I do not like mislynches, even though they are a part of Mafia and reveal things after someone flips. It is slightly better on D2 because there is more info, though.

[Estelle]

How does your vote on Senbon encourage him to talk? If someone is busy they won't be around to read it, if they don't care they will continue to not care, if they're lurkscum they'll continue not posting to pretend to be one of the first two.

[All Might]

The idea with voting lurkers is that you convince them to not lurk... it only works if there are enough votes on the lurker that they genuinely feel threatened, though, and they have to actually be lurking and not just plain inactive.

Morm, I think you are misinterpreting my argument against you. I didn't say that you were a primary reason for Invisible's lynch, nor did I at any point in that post say that I thought FH was scum (and I certainly don't know it, if you're trying to imply that we're scumbuddies). My point there was that the way you voted Invisible at the end made it look partially like you were voting him over FH, rather than on his own merits, because you compared how he looked scummier than FH, rather than just saying that he looked scummy. However, Invisible was a scumread of your's for most of the phase. But the way your post was, you kind of made it out that you were voting him only because it was end-of-phase, which is indeed what Frank thought, if you look at his last post. In this way, you make it seem like you were in no way responsible for the mislynch of Invisible, whereas you partly (not primarily, before you say that again) were.

Getting info isn't a bad thing. But what's better, getting info from an inactive or getting info from your scumread? A breadth of info isn't always better than a depth of info, and you seem to think it is.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

How does your vote on Senbon encourage him to talk? If someone is busy they won't be around to read it, if they don't care they will continue to not care, if they're lurkscum they'll continue not posting to pretend to be one of the first two.

How would I know if he was busy? Also, lurkscum won't stay lurking if they are being voted.

Morm, I think you are misinterpreting my argument against you. I didn't say that you were a primary reason for Invisible's lynch, nor did I at any point in that post say that I thought FH was scum (and I certainly don't know it, if you're trying to imply that we're scumbuddies). My point there was that the way you voted Invisible at the end made it look partially like you were voting him over FH, rather than on his own merits, because you compared how he looked scummier than FH, rather than just saying that he looked scummy. However, Invisible was a scumread of your's for most of the phase. But the way your post was, you kind of made it out that you were voting him only because it was end-of-phase, which is indeed what Frank thought, if you look at his last post. In this way, you make it seem like you were in no way responsible for the mislynch of Invisible, whereas you partly (not primarily, before you say that again) were.

... I just paraphrased it wrongly. Sorry about that. I already stated my points about FH, so you know I wouldn't have voted him over something he still needed to answer for. I found Invisible the best lynch candidate, but that does not mean I found FH scummy. On Invisible's case, however, I had plenty reasons to vote him.

[Prims]

Votecount 2.1

Failbaddon (3) - Pasadena, Pocket Ace, Mormegil

Mormegil (2) - Frank Lucas, Brian Kibler

Flaming Hot (1) - Bored

Pasadena (1) - Moeblobs With Hats

Not Voting: enigma, Failbaddon, Flaming Hot, Paperclip, Senbonzakura

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. You have about 47 hours left in the day.

Flaming Hot and Senbonzakura have been prodded. Failbaddon probably needs a sub and Paperclip is AFK again, apparently.

[Kamina]

You can't compare a RVS vote with an after RVS vote. Also, if I have something to say about other players aside from the player I just voted, I will do so.

My post was not agaisnt SM, I just asked him a question. The only player I addressed was Bored, and I explained why I didn't vote him. How many times must I say that having voted Bored would have only made me waste time? I already knew his excuse, I wanted to hear more from other players first before setting my vote on my top scumread. Besides, "top scumread" is a strong thing to say - I had a few points agaisnt him, but none were conclusive. I felt like looking on as many players as I could before voting someone definitely.

I asked him a question to see what he'd tell me, to check his reaction. I can't expect to conclude that, based on a slight thing, he is Moeblobs' scumbuddy. And what's wrong with addressing Invisible and SM again?

I was voting Sen until the end because I hoped to see content from him. A silly thought, I admit, I should focus on my targets rather than work to get info from other people, because apparently getting info is a bad thing. Also, saying that I was responsible for making Invisible be chosen as a lynch candidate is quite an exageration, as the same could be said about those who voted after me, as they could've chosen Flaming as well. By the way, the way you address Flaming here seems to me as if you know he's scum. Until you can prove this, you can't blame me for mislynching Invisible. I really don't understand how I am "pushing the blame away from myself".

What you say is true, but you distorted my words and my actions during your post, and that bothers me.

In reply to the parts of this post that I bolded, I don't like that you're resorting to this attitude. Emotion isn't a scumtell but defending yourself through snarkiness rather than logic is more than just emotion IMO.

Also, I'm a bit dubious of how you appear to be "pressure" voting someone who was already suspected by several people.

[All Might]

Enigma, where is your vote? You've expressed suspicions against Kibler and Morm, IIRC, yet you've voting for neither of them. We really can't afford something like last phase where we were scrambling to get a lynch, especially as we've got like 4 inactives, meaning instead of needing 7/12 votes to hammer, we really need something more like 7/8.

Anyways, I think I find Fail a bit worse than Mormegil at the moment. Despite his voting habits, he has had made cases against several people and produced content, whereas Fail has really just tunneled on Bored with not very good reasons for the most part, and said next to nothing about anyone else. Fail is in the process of getting subbed out though, so eh. Looking at the amount of votes we need to achieve a lynch, though, I think I feel better about voting a scummy inactive than I normally would, if only because we might not have enough active voters otherwise to even ensure a lynch tomorrow. Plus, unlike the FH wagon on D1 (which I was unfortunately a part of...), the Fail wagon is based on a series of posts, not just one.

[All Might]

Also, @Enigma- Morm never actually voted for Invisible until near the end of the phase. When he's speaking about pressure voting inactives, he's speaking about mainly Senbon, I think.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

In reply to the parts of this post that I bolded, I don't like that you're resorting to this attitude. Emotion isn't a scumtell but defending yourself through snarkiness rather than logic is more than just emotion IMO.

I wasn't being snarky when I said "

I asked him a question to see what he'd tell me, to check his reaction. I can't expect to conclude that, based on a slight thing, he is Moeblobs' scumbuddy. And what's wrong with addressing Invisible and SM again?

" I was being sincere. This is quite a leap, saying he is his scumbuddy based on a simple association.

Also, I'm a bit dubious of how you appear to be "pressure" voting someone who was already suspected by several people.

How is it bad? I addressed Fail before, and I am addressing him now. The wagon seems to be running well, so I'll stay there until I see a more suspicious/scummy player or the wagon dies, since I want to get his answers.

Unless I'm failing to understand your post completely.

[Aizen]

tl dr; Morm seems to think that his vote is better served prodding secondary scumreads to come in and post rather than on his primary scumread himself, which is pretty suspicious considering he just called out Frank for not voting his top scumread.

I don't think he actually called me out for not voting my top scumread seeing as I did actually vote my top scumread (Invisible), otherwise that would be a horrible case of misrepping. Though I don't actually think he said that. I did say what you said to him though.

My post was not agaisnt SM, I just asked him a question. The only player I addressed was Bored, and I explained why I didn't vote him. How many times must I say that having voted Bored would have only made me waste time? I already knew his excuse, I wanted to hear more from other players first before setting my vote on my top scumread. Besides, "top scumread" is a strong thing to say - I had a few points agaisnt him, but none were conclusive. I felt like looking on as many players as I could before voting someone definitely.

I was voting Sen until the end because I hoped to see content from him. A silly thought, I admit, I should focus on my targets rather than work to get info from other people, because apparently getting info is a bad thing. Also, saying that I was responsible for making Invisible be chosen as a lynch candidate is quite an exageration, as the same could be said about those who voted after me, as they could've chosen Flaming as well. By the way, the way you address Flaming here seems to me as if you know he's scum. Until you can prove this, you can't blame me for mislynching Invisible. I really don't understand how I am "pushing the blame away from myself".

People have already touched on this, but I'll reiterate: NO, you are NOT wasting time voting who you think is scummy. Especially since as a result, you ended up not pushing a single case, and didn't pressure anyone into doing anything. So as a result, you ended up wasting your vote until the end even though you were trying to not waste it. Ironic isn't it?

Also, why would you later say that you didn't know Senbonzakura was inactive even though you've said before that you were trying to prod an inactive into talking to get more info out of him? Strange contradiction.

How can you think someone is definitely scum on D1? I wanted to get as many info and reads as possible, because my reads on Bored were still weak. I do not like mislynches, even though they are a part of Mafia and reveal things after someone flips. It is slightly better on D2 because there is more info, though.

You don't (well unless you're scum of course) but that's all the reason why you push cases and vote who you find scummy instead of just wasting votes on people who don't talk. Doing this is pretty scummy in itself, since it's just fake contributing to the town. Also, in reference to the bold, it sounds like you knew Invisible was going to flip town and that's why you didn't want to vote him until the end? I actually think I'm misinterpreting this though so could you just clarify this for me real quick.

[Cú Chulainn]

Oh, my sincerest apologies to you ladies. Life has but given me a swift kick in the rear, and all those mojitos made me quite lightheaded.

Consider me back and allow me some time to play a fabulous game of "catch myself on the events that have occurred in my stead". I have quite a bit of catching up to do, but rest assured, your Flaming Hot man (and pretty good looking guy at that) is back and ready to rumble the roses!

[All Might]

Ah it turns out I mixed people up. Morm called out Enigma, not you, for not voting their top scumread. The point stands either way.

Activity seems to have dropped, which is not very good considering we have only approximately 28 hours left, and our largest wagon has only three people on it. The situation with the wagons is slightly better right now if only because I have a scumread on both the competing wagons, but scrambling to achieve lynches is bad regardless because deadline votes made to achieve lynches are not as informative for associative tells as votes made while not under the coercion of a universal loss threat.

[Grace]

notplaying

cool mafuia game guys

notplaying

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

Also, why would you later say that you didn't know Senbonzakura was inactive even though you've said before that you were trying to prod an inactive into talking to get more info out of him? Strange contradiction.

I was referring to his lack of posts. I didn't know he didn't watch the thread anymore.

You don't (well unless you're scum of course) but that's all the reason why you push cases and vote who you find scummy instead of just wasting votes on people who don't talk. Doing this is pretty scummy in itself, since it's just fake contributing to the town. Also, in reference to the bold, it sounds like you knew Invisible was going to flip town and that's why you didn't want to vote him until the end? I actually think I'm misinterpreting this though so could you just clarify this for me real quick.

No, I thought he'd flip scum. I did like the case agaisnt him, they had solid points that even Invisible admitted, but he lost some credit with me after saying "hey guys I did bad things I admit but I'm just playing badly" among other things. I had no qualms with lynching him on the phase end.

Also, Ace's point is taken. I believe we should discuss about something else, then. Something like our second top scumreads, maybe.