[NOC] Volcanic Anonymafia - Game Over

[Shiki Ryougi]

Well, there goes my theory that enigma was scum.

##Vote: Frank Lucas

No objections from me. Upon closer inspection, he doesn't seem to have scum hunted a lot or done much of value.

I wouldn't be opposed to lynching Flaming Hot either. Even if I overlook D1, where he apparently had login issues, his content in the previous phases has been sparse, as if he's been trying to avoid attention, and he hasn't really done anything either.

[All Might]

Well, ##Vote: Flaming Hot

His jump onto the Mormegil wagon was sort of similar to the first post of his that everybody disliked, the jump onto the Bored wagon. There he jumped on for outdated reasons, here they were just not very good reasons. The majority of his reason was just for Morm saying SM looked townie. I agreed with that point, but even if it's wrong, basing a vote on something that subjective is pretty bad

Now, Morm did flip scum, but IMO the timing was pretty good for a bus. At the time of his vote, Morm and Lucas were tied in votes, so his seems like the tiebreaker and more important. However, if Lucas is town, he would probably have shot Morm, seeing as that's where his vote was. So if Morm was going to go down that phase anyways, then the towncred is more important because it lets FH survive for longer. And if Lucas is scum, then FH voting for Morm isn't even really a bus, just choosing which of his two buddies is less likely to survive. So in conclusion I don't think that Morm flipping scum makes FH's vote any better.

[All Might]

Wouldn't be averse to lynching Frank, but I'd prefer FH because his Morm vote reads more likely to be a bus than Frank's vote does, if only due to the timing of it.

Frank, you said that once you realized who Pasadena was, you thought that it was more likely that they were just town in-fighting. At what time did this happen? Because if it's after the Invisible lynch then it's a pretty convenient excuse to be able to push Invisible and then back away from following up after one of the main reasons you were pushing him in the first place. And did you have a post saying that you changed your mind about the infighting thing before you were prodded about it on D3? I can't see one on a quick scan of your ISO, so that could easily just be something you made up on the spot.

[Aizen]

##Vote Paperclip

Stated some reasons yesterday, and I'll add some more. His sub didn't do a great job, literally voting Invisible for the sake of "more associative reads" instead of actually finding him scummy, and his vote on Pocket Ace wasn't great either.

@Pocket Ace: Well I said early D2 when talking about Moeblobs that he could just be intown fighting with Pasadena (hence saying I thought Pasadena was town), and that's when I actually realized who he/she was and let meta affect my judgment. As a result, Pasadena's emotion made me read the playerslot differently, and throw out that theory I had about one scum/one town. I'd rather not spend time talking about townreads and try to focus on scumhunting with what little activity I have. Tbh though, I'm not really reading Pasadena as town anymore. I'll talk about that in a sec.

Secondary scumread on Flaming Hot. What Pocket Ace said, and it's not like his vote on Bored before was good either. The worst part about the Mormegil vote was that of all things to actually talk about Mormegil, it was for wording on one of his posts (which he claimed was a scumslip). Then conveniently Mormegil ended up flipping scum. It smells like a bus. Would not mind voting him if others disagree with me about Paperclip.

Third read on Pasadena, though it's smaller than the other two. This playerslot has had a ton of interactions with other people, and a lot of emotional ones at that, which make them tougher to read. The later posts haven't been very great though. All of Pasadena's votes (other than Fail) have flipped town (I'm town so I'm gonna include myself in this), and the vote on me isn't good at all. The reason why I had trouble getting a good read on you is because of meta and emotion (so I just deemed it town because it's safer). As for scumhunting, I may not have a ton of posts, but the ones I have do have some quality scumhunting in them, not to mention I was a big push on the Mormegil wagon and was an original voter. Also you really avoided the Morm wagon at all costs, even though you mentioned multiple times that you'd be okay with voting him, and wasted your vote on Enigma (who ended up flipping town). All this adds up to a decent case on scum!Pasadena.

[Rain Nijika]

##Vote: Frank Lucas

@Bored: There's two main problems with your case here: 1) When I voted Invisible, I was actually scumhunting at the time but I've been busy last two phases with irl stuff so I haven't been able to scumhunt as often and 2) Not scumhunting = scummy regardless of who says it. <br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252);">My bad, I thought we were talking about D2 where I voted for him originally and along with Brian started the Morm wagon. Tbh I completely forgot about his D1 vote since most of D1 was about Invisible and Pasadena. <br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252);">I actually did focus on SM's other reads, but out of them I've found Morm and Fail the scummiest. Since Fail's new sub I dropped that scumread, and I already mentioned Flaming Hot before. Senbonzakura flipped town. So yeah...not sure what I'm missing here? <br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252);">All in all, there was literally no misrep of your case, and I believe I satisfactorily answered all your points.

No misrep... please go back and read what you said and what I said. You didn't focus on his other reads, you said that one you didn't understand and that one everyone else had talked about or something like that.

For reference, what I say my case is:

My major points on you were in fact not what you said, but instead that you continually voting people for not scum hunting along with slightly smaller reasons that aren't actually really good for scum hunting like attitude and that you ignore other people to focus solely on those people which doesn't really seem like scum hunting to me.

What you say my case is:

Your whole case can be summed up into three things: You voted Invisible who flipped town, you voted Mormegil who Brian voted, and you're dumb for not thinking SM was obvtown.

Does anyone else view this as not a complete misrep or what?

[All Might]

To be fair, wrt Paperclip's Invisible vote, it was at a portion of the game where it looked like we might not even achieve a lynch. The rest of your case against him reads sort of like an OMGUS. And additionally, while you are allowed to change your mind about Pasa, but you didn't really explain why you suddenly went from "One of Invisible or Pasa is scum" to "Both Pasa and Moe are town". You explained why you thought Moe might be town, but not Pasa. You didn't explain this switch until being prodded to do so on D3/D4, which I still don't like.

[Shiki Ryougi]

All of Pasadena's votes (other than Fail) have flipped town (I'm town so I'm gonna include myself in this), and the vote on me isn't good at all.

The rest of us don't know that you're town, though. You might still be scum. Including yourself as a "townie Pasadena is voting for" really means nothing at all when the only one who knows your alliance is you. As for all of my votes being on town, it could be because I'm scum and I don't want to vote my scum buddies. Or maybe it's because I'm having a hard time getting reads in this game with approximately 50% of the player base absent for the first two phases? (On a side note, I really dislike this line of reasoning, the "wagon analysis", because it's quite faulty and susceptible to a lot of holes.)

The reason why I had trouble getting a good read on you is because of meta and emotion (so I just deemed it town because it's safer).

This is absolutely horrible. If you have trouble getting a good read on me because of "meta" and "emotion", then it's NOT safer to deem me town. A person you don't have good reads on is a BAD thing and you DON'T want to call that person town for fuck's sake. Also, what are you doing, using meta in an anonymous game? Even if you're absolutely sure you know who I am, you might be wrong. In any case, using meta to scum hunt or make decisions is sketchy as it is. Players who have a meta of doing certain things will surely use that meta to their advantage when they're scum.

As for scumhunting, I may not have a ton of posts, but the ones I have do have some quality scumhunting in them, not to mention I was a big push on the Mormegil wagon and was an original voter. Also you really avoided the Morm wagon at all costs, even though you mentioned multiple times that you'd be okay with voting him, and wasted your vote on Enigma (who ended up flipping town). All this adds up to a decent case on scum!Pasadena.

I had a hard time reading Mormegil. For all of his posts, I found it hard to put into words what I didn't like about him, and a "bad feeling" isn't going to fly by as a viable reason for a vote. And yes, I still would have been fine with a vote on him, I just wanted to wait until we got closer to phase end to hammer him in case town wanted more time to discuss. Also, being an "original voter" on the Mormegil wagon doesn't mean anything to me, for I've seen games where scum voted their allies early and made pushes at getting them lynched even before they became a likely lynch target.

[C. C.]

Flaming Hot's vote on Mormegil was definitely the weakest of all of them last day phase, and now that Mormegil has flipped scum, it makes Flaming's vote look like a weak bus attempt while trying to have original reasoning, on a scum buddy who was sinking quickly in favor with town.

On top of that Flaming Hot hasn't made up for his lost activity AT ALL. He came back to us with a single scumread and hasn't said much else about that game. A bus seems like it would be an easy way to curry up favor back with town for him.

Definitely easy for Moeblobs to see how he could be scum here.

##Vote: Flaming Hot

Moeblobs needs to look at Frank moe since Moeblobs missed deadline again, but Moeblobs suspects the reads have not changed very much.

[Prims]

Votecount 4.1

Flaming Hot (2) - Pocket Ace, Moeblobs With Hats

Frank Lucas (2) - Pasadena, Bored

Paperclip (1) - Frank Lucas

Not Voting: Failbaddon, Flaming Hot, Paperclip

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. You have about 70 hours left in the day.

[Aizen]

Bored I honestly don't know what the hell you're talking about when it comes to the whole "why did you only talk about Mormegil" read when I also mentioned Flaming Hot (who was another one of SM's scumreads) and admitted I didn't know much about Fail's case but other's seemed to have gotten onto it (Fail was his other scumread). Here, I'll even quote it for you.

Working off the Space Marine NK, I have reason to believe that he was on to something. Taking a look at his reads, he found Mormegil, Flaming Hot, and Failbaddon scummy. I stated what I didn't like about FH earlier, but he hasn't really responded since forever ago so I'll hold off on him for now, and I don't know much about the Fail case except for what I read about from these last couple posts before me. Gonna talk about Mormegil in a sec.

So what did I miss? More importantly, why are you gonna push this on me as a scummy thing when I ended up being right about Mormegil (he flipped scum)? How is it a bad thing that I put my main focus on a player I found scummy, and ended up flipping scum?

Alright. To talk about this "misrep" bullshit now. Gonna explain this all to you now so we can clear this up and you can stop wasting your vote on me.

1) The invisible vote: You said that I voted people for stupid things like tone. How many people can you say that I actually used tone as a reason for finding them scummy? Out of all my scumreads, only one falls into that category. Now who is that? Oh, it's Invisible! So naturally, when you say something like that, that's who I think you're referring to. So when I summed up your case into being short and sweet, that's what I labeled it as. Unless of course, you think ALL my scumreads rely on "stupid things like tone", which if you did say that, then you'd be misrepping yourself (and wouldn't that be ironic).

2) You voted Mormegil who Brian voted. You were trying to say that my Mormegil vote came from Brian and wasn't my own analysis or anything (which of course isn't true). Point is, you didn't like my Mormegil vote (who ended up flipping scum). Actually, now that I think about it, you were another one who ended up wasting his vote somewhere else instead of on scum!Mormegil, and have been ironically tunneling on me ever since the end of D2.

3) You're dumb for not thinking SM was town. This again falls under what you thought of me halfassing my analysis of SM's votes (which again isn't true), and were basically trying to shrug off my method of scumhunting as useless since "Frank forgets that SM was obvtown". Of course, this has been proven false since Mormegil ended up flipping scum, as well as others mentioning that this scumhunting method is indeed reasonable, so your point is invalid.

Also, on a side note, it's pretty funny how in the other post I made before this, I've answered your "major points", yet you decide not to mention that at all and keep saying "omg look he misrepped me". I'm not sure if you can complain anymore seeing as I've answered your concerns, so unless you want to actually respond to my answers instead of throwing the buzzword "misrep" around blindly, I suggest (if you're town at least) to place your vote on someone who's actually scum. Thank you.

[All Might]

Frank, why are you posting your thoughts about why Bored is scummy? To get us to think the same as you. If you're going to do that, you need to use arguments that we can follow as well. Yet in your last few posts you've used yourself as being town as an argument several times. Also, even though you've been arguing against Bored a lot, I still don't really have a sense of what exactly you think of him. Do you think he's scum or just a wrong townie?

[Aizen]

@Pocket Ace: Seeing as there's a plethora of posts to work with I'm trying to make with what I can. Regardless of the Invisible vote (which could still be scum taking advantage of the game situation to get an easy mislynch), his vote on you wasn't good, and his vote on me wasn't good.

@Pasadena:

You posted on your real account instead of your anon account during D2, and I saw it when I was making my first D2 post. So I'm pretty sure I know who you actually are, and your gameplay so far fits your meta anyway.

Well statistically there's a 77% chance of you being town, so it is indeed safer to just say "ehh she's innocent until proven guilty" when I'm having trouble reading you due to your emotion. You're right, it isn't great play on my part to let meta affect my judgment, and I admit that. It's strange that you're getting mad about this though seeing as if you're town it should be a good thing that someone views you town, but whatever. As for Mormegil, it was just strange that you said a bunch of times "I don't mind voting him" but never did. Looks like safe scum play. You instead wasted your vote on Enigma, who ended up flipping town. You also thought Invisible was scum (as did most of us) and he ended up town. So that's a lot of bad reads, and it's safe to find that suspicious.

@Moeblobs: I'm supposed to be a gangster how can I be moe?

[Aizen]

Frank, why are you posting your thoughts about why Bored is scummy? To get us to think the same as you. If you're going to do that, you need to use arguments that we can follow as well. Yet in your last few posts you've used yourself as being town as an argument several times. Also, even though you've been arguing against Bored a lot, I still don't really have a sense of what exactly you think of him. Do you think he's scum or just a wrong townie?

Well I'm not trying to argue that he's scum, just that he's wrong town using a really bad case. I'm not sure how I'm using "I'm town" in the last argument; I'm just defending myself.

[All Might]

Oh, it was your Pasadena case where you counted yourself as town. I don't understand how your meta on Pasadena went from him probably being town to him possibly being scum. Your case on him basically amounts to:

Him showing a lot of emotion, which doesn't really mean anything because you're not saying why that emotion makes him more likely to be scum. On its own, emotion is a nulltell.

Him voting for only townies. This doesn't really mean anything either. For example, the only person Sen voted for, Invisible, flipped town, yet he was town too. I'm not seeing yet why Pasadena is more likely to be scum than wrong town like you say Bored is.

Him not voting for Morm. Neither did Bored, whom you think is wrong town.

Basically, a lot of what you've said against Pasadena can be applied to Bored as well, yet you think he's more likely to be town than scum. I feel that this goes to the heart of the case against you- you make statements and then don't really back them up fully until being prodded for it. Not sure if you're town and you're thoughts are one step ahead of what you're posting, or if you're scum, though your last string of posts have improved my opinion of you somewhat.

[Aizen]

First off I want to reiterate that the Pasadena case is just a weak scumread. That means not very strong, and not my first option to vote. Second of all, counting myself as town in that case isn't even the point, and if I didn't add that part in, nothing would change, so please stop focusing on the wrong details. The point is, when someone as active as Pasadena has played the game, and had as many scumreads (and a few strong ones at that), and they've all been wrong, and it's D4 (compare that to Senbonzakura's horrible activity and only a couple scumreads), it all adds up to an understandable suspicion. As for the emotion part, just forget about it because it'll make a lot more sense in postgame when the playerslots are revealed. It's really starting to get blown out of proportion now.

Bored at least voted for me, who was the second largest wagon at the time. Pasadena voted enigma, who not only did no one else vote for, but was shot as well the following night and flipped town. The only similarity of what I said between Bored and Pasadena is that neither of them voted Morm last phase. That's a huge generalization to say that the case on Pasadena is similar to what I've said about Bored. I find Bored more town as well since he had a really quick but bad wagon pile up on him D1, and before he started tunneling on me for no reason he did a decent enough job scumhunting.

As for me not backing up my statements enough until prodded -- come on man. Have you seen how meh my activity has been (Prims prodded me twice), and how meh the activity of the game has been for the most part? It's natural that when you disappear for a couple days and come back, people are gonna mention things about you, so it seems like you're only talking when prodded. Besides, for the most part, I've made my cases pretty understandable, to the point that all people keep talking about is something I said in EARLY D1 as my big mishap.

[C. C.]

Bored at least voted for me, who was the second largest wagon at the time. Pasadena voted enigma, who not only did no one else vote for, but was shot as well the following night and flipped town. The only similarity of what I said between Bored and Pasadena is that neither of them voted Morm last phase. That's a huge generalization to say that the case on Pasadena is similar to what I've said about Bored. I find Bored more town as well since he had a really quick but bad wagon pile up on him D1, and before he started tunneling on me for no reason he did a decent enough job scumhunting.

This kind of bothers Moeblobs. You find Bored townie because he had an RVS wagon on him? Also Moeblobs does not think he did that great of a job scumhunting, he had little to nothing to say about the first two major cases of the game (Invisible and Pasadena) while voting for Inactives. Your assessment of Bored seems pretty made up on both counts.

As for me not backing up my statements enough until prodded -- come on man. Have you seen how meh my activity has been (Prims prodded me twice), and how meh the activity of the game has been for the most part? It's natural that when you disappear for a couple days and come back, people are gonna mention things about you, so it seems like you're only talking when prodded. Besides, for the most part, I've made my cases pretty understandable, to the point that all people keep talking about is something I said in EARLY D1 as my big mishap.

Low activity is not an excuse for anything. Also, Moeblobs thinks people have said more about you then citing some ED1 shenanigans.

[All Might]

Well, if Pasa thought Enigma was scum and that a case could be made against him, why would he then shoot Enigma? Doesn't make much sense to me. Also, Moe makes a good point about Bored also voting for inactives. Sure, he voted for the second-largest wagon on D3, but his votes on D1 and D2 were on SM and Flaming Hot. FH kind of had a wagon on D1, but still not that large, and didn't really have a wagon at all on D2 (though D2 was eh because Sen got modkilled partway through). SM never had a wagon either.

Fail, Paperclip, and particularly Flaming Hot need to get back in here.

[Cú Chulainn]

For one, I'm thinking that is be a horrible person to lynch as I'd only go with Frank as my Bengeance explosion. Then I feel like he'd he told to do the same by his team to me, so either way, I feel like we are both dead.

##Vote Frank Lucas

Because it's essentially established that he's scum regardless through means that I don't even have to say. (Not like I could say it well anyway but the consensus obviously seems to agree for reasons that I'd be nothing short of repeating).

(this is prims, flaming hot can't log on and asked me to post for him)

[Shiki Ryougi]

The point is, when someone as active as Pasadena has played the game, and had as many scumreads (and a few strong ones at that), and they've all been wrong, and it's D4 (compare that to Senbonzakura's horrible activity and only a couple scumreads), it all adds up to an understandable suspicion. As for the emotion part, just forget about it because it'll make a lot more sense in postgame when the playerslots are revealed. It's really starting to get blown out of proportion now.

I have been as active as I could be earlier in the game, yes, but I did lose interest halfway through and am trying to get back into this. I mean, yes, some people don't like to put suspicion on their scum buddies or name them as a scum read. But some people actively bus their buddies and drive cases against them as scum. And some townies just never have a single good read on anyone the entire game. In itself, it's not exactly a scum tell.

As for the emotion part, please ... don't say "it'll make a lot more sense in postgame when the playerslots are revealed." This makes me feel like a shitty player who does nothing but make emotional plays. It's quite annoying. You know who I am, but it's quite possible to not meta me even with that.

Bored at least voted for me, who was the second largest wagon at the time. Pasadena voted enigma, who not only did no one else vote for, but was shot as well the following night and flipped town. The only similarity of what I said between Bored and Pasadena is that neither of them voted Morm last phase. That's a huge generalization to say that the case on Pasadena is similar to what I've said about Bored. I find Bored more town as well since he had a really quick but bad wagon pile up on him D1, and before he started tunneling on me for no reason he did a decent enough job scumhunting.

I genuinely thought enigma was scummy. I would have had no problems voting Mormegil, but I couldn't phrase my suspicions on him and I didn't want to vote until I could properly do so. Also, if I remember correctly, the wagon didn't come down to between you or Mormegil until later in the day, when I wasn't really around. (I might be wrong here, I'm having a hard time keeping track of days lately.) No one else voted enigma, yes, but did anyone say that they thought he was town either? Or were Mormegil and you just higher up in the priority list?

[Marisa Kirisame]

So I was posting like 4 hours ago but my post got eaten

damnit ipod

Anyway @Frank, I know my Invisible and Pocket Ace votes were weak. It's kind of what happens when you haven't actually read the thread (or are in the process of reading it.) I'm not too pleased that you're writing off Pasa as town because of meta (it's an anon game for a reason. Even if you're pretty sure, you can't be 100%?) and emotion. I do kind of agree with you on the Bored town point though.

@Paperclip: Nice avoiding my little rebuttal and just saying "yeah I'm gonna park my vote on Frank still just because". And for the last fricking time I already stated that I changed my mind about that damn theory! Are we not allowed to change our minds in mafia anymore? I'm honestly thinking of just shooting you if I end up getting lynched because of your shitty vote park.

I really don't like this response. It's way too aggressive and doesn't read town to me. And on top of that, your case on me just feels pretty weak.

##Vote: Frank Lucas

[All Might]

@FH- wtf are you seriously just going to say "I don't have to give any reasons because everyone else already made them for me and it's established he's scum". Saying "I'd only shoot Frank if I died" isn't a defence either. Look at Morm, he basically said the same thing, "I'll shoot Frank after getting lynched." He was still scum.

All of FH's posts have just been wagoning while echoing other people's reasoning. Bored, Morm, and now Frank.

[All Might]

Also, I believe that puts Frank at L-1.

[Ochako Uraraka]

I'm finally free from my duties, today wasn't very kind a day. Bear with me for a moment, if you please.

I personally find the enigma nightkill something worth looking at, he didn't have a lot of presence in the game, nor was considered obvtown by many. I believe there was somewhere that enigma addressed Moeblobs... Well, it's not really much now that I see it, just a demand to elaborate reads. However, considering the guy was focused on mostly mormegil all game, I suppose he doesn't give a lot for town to work with either. That is also a possibility.

I'll keep it in mind but will change my focus to the arguments at hand.

At first glance, I'd say that Flaming Hot is looking worse than Frank, and if he can just send the mod messages to pass down, he should be picking up the pace faster. Considering you're already dead is very wrong, if you are town, provide more analysis and give more to work with.

However, this feels more like inactivity botching his play, I've seen it happen in previous games with people that ended up being town, but, at the same time, I feel it's the best I can work with right now. I'll trust Ace's math in that Frank is supposedly already at L-1.

##Vote: Flaming Hot

There's been an annoying lack of read into Frank's actions from my part, hopefully I'll have that fixed tomorrow morning, at the latest.

[Aizen]

This kind of bothers Moeblobs. You find Bored townie because he had an RVS wagon on him? Also Moeblobs does not think he did that great of a job scumhunting, he had little to nothing to say about the first two major cases of the game (Invisible and Pasadena) while voting for Inactives. Your assessment of Bored seems pretty made up on both counts.

Low activity is not an excuse for anything. Also, Moeblobs thinks people have said more about you then citing some ED1 shenanigans.

Are you trying to tell me that I should think Bored is scum? Crap you do make a good point now that I reread his ISO. It's not the RVS wagon, it's just how fast all those votes piled up. In games in the past, when these things happen it's usually on a townie player (think Marth in Tales mafia as an example). It's not obvious proof that he's town, but for now I think there are scummier people in the game (Paperclip and FH for example) so I'm gonna focus more on them.

When you make a post and people ask about it, and then you aren't around for a couple days, it looks like you're only doing stuff when prodded, when in reality you were just gone and would have expanded on these thoughts had you been around more. That's what I'm talking about. Also you're right, some people are literally just voting me because it's the cool thing to do. But other than that that's pretty much it.

Well, if Pasa thought Enigma was scum and that a case could be made against him, why would he then shoot Enigma? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Well Pasa does have a buddy so it's not like he/she has complete say in the kill, and keep in mind that no one else voted Enigma than Pasa so they may have thought it would be too difficult to get a kill on Enigma. Or maybe Pasa's actually town and scum might be trying to frame him/her? Idk. I'm not scum, so I can't really think of their mindset. It's a fair point though (and let me reiterate that this scumread isn't strong so I don't know why we're talking about it so much).

I have been as active as I could be earlier in the game, yes, but I did lose interest halfway through and am trying to get back into this. I mean, yes, some people don't like to put suspicion on their scum buddies or name them as a scum read. But some people actively bus their buddies and drive cases against them as scum. And some townies just never have a single good read on anyone the entire game. In itself, it's not exactly a scum tell.

As for the emotion part, please ... don't say "it'll make a lot more sense in postgame when the playerslots are revealed." This makes me feel like a shitty player who does nothing but make emotional plays. It's quite annoying. You know who I am, but it's quite possible to not meta me even with that.

I genuinely thought enigma was scummy. I would have had no problems voting Mormegil, but I couldn't phrase my suspicions on him and I didn't want to vote until I could properly do so. Also, if I remember correctly, the wagon didn't come down to between you or Mormegil until later in the day, when I wasn't really around. (I might be wrong here, I'm having a hard time keeping track of days lately.) No one else voted enigma, yes, but did anyone say that they thought he was town either? Or were Mormegil and you just higher up in the priority list?

You're right, it isn't a scumtell to just have a bad scumdar. So let me say, yet again, that it's a WEAK scumread, and we are stressing WAY too much about a weak scumread that I have no intention of voting atm. But isn't it fair to be suspicious of someone who has a bad scumdar? I can think of multiple examples where some people were scum, and never suspected one of their buddies, and just went with the bad scumdar excuse to try and stay alive. So just as a bad scumdar isn't necessarily a scumtell, it isn't a town tell either. As a result, it's fair to be suspicious of it.

Well I'd rather not literally reveal my identity (though I've given no effort in actually trying to mask it) so that's all I meant by that. Don't be offended or anything because I didn't intend to make you think you were that kind of player (I know you aren't, you just have occasional emotional outbursts when you're in a not so great mood). Emotion is just hard to read, and sometimes I get fooled by it as a result. Usually it's better to just keep it null, and to an extent I did that. I just thought the rest of your play looked townie early. Now (obviously) my mind's changed a bit.

So I was posting like 4 hours ago but my post got eaten

damnit ipod

Anyway @Frank, I know my Invisible and Pocket Ace votes were weak. It's kind of what happens when you haven't actually read the thread (or are in the process of reading it.) I'm not too pleased that you're writing off Pasa as town because of meta (it's an anon game for a reason. Even if you're pretty sure, you can't be 100%?) and emotion. I do kind of agree with you on the Bored town point though.

I really don't like this response. It's way too aggressive and doesn't read town to me. And on top of that, your case on me just feels pretty weak.

##Vote: Frank Lucas

1) You admit that your votes are weak, and not reading the thread (when you have no reason not to) isn't an excuse.

2) If you've been reading this thread, you'd know that I haven't written Pasa off as town, but actually have a weak scumread on her (which is what Pocket Ace and Pasadena have been discussing with me for the last day). I also explained the meta part already and admitted it was wrong to have judged with it (but it's only natural when you know who a player actually is).

3) You seem to be the only one who thinks Bored is town because of that point. Weird.

4) How does that response not come off as "townie annoyed by a bad wagon on him".

5) Your vote yet again is opportunistic, and the fact that you're not worried that scum could come in and hammer me now that you just put me at L-1 is even more suspicious.

@FH- wtf are you seriously just going to say "I don't have to give any reasons because everyone else already made them for me and it's established he's scum". Saying "I'd only shoot Frank if I died" isn't a defence either. Look at Morm, he basically said the same thing, "I'll shoot Frank after getting lynched." He was still scum.

All of FH's posts have just been wagoning while echoing other people's reasoning. Bored, Morm, and now Frank.

Yeah what the hell is up with this vote. This is by far the worst vote on my wagon right now. Paperclip wagon isn't taking off which is too bad, so I'm gonna go with my next scumread (pretty self explanatory I think).

##Unvote (Paperclip)

##Vote Flaming Hot

Btw if I end up getting lynched who do you guys want me to shoot? I'm gonna assume Flaming Hot?

[Aizen]

Saying "I'd only shoot Frank if I died" isn't a defence either. Look at Morm, he basically said the same thing, "I'll shoot Frank after getting lynched." He was still scum.

Want you all to focus on the bold. Yes Morm did say this. Yes, Morm was scum. Look at this statement. Why would scum say this about a fellow buddy? They wouldn't. This isn't a bus-like statement. The guy wanted me dead. This in itself should really add to my townie credibility. Just saiyan.