Horace (Inigo) vs SB (Brady)

[General Horace]

Ok folks, it is time to settle something that has been a hot topic for a while, among the kid units, who is the stronger unit between the ever fabulous Inigo, or the massive chump (just like Shin), Brady.

We are assuming efficient play, as much as it pains me to use the term. No sitting around killing reinforcements and the such, or spending turns waiting for the enemy to come to you. Lastly before I begin, we'd both appreciate no interruption until all is said and done, feel free to comment when we're done.

First off, we'll look at their base classes. Inigo is a Mercenary, which means he has instant access to armsthrift, which is a totally amazing skill that allows him to abuse his high luck to use forged weapons whenever he wants without worry. Patience makes him a dodge tank on the enemy phase, which is where he's facing most of the action.

Poor Brady is stuck as a Priest, with pretty useless default skills, (lolmiracle, lolhealtouch) and he's stuck with Staves as his only rank, and IS hated him so much that he has a D staves, whereas all the other kids that use weapons have a C in said weapon.

Before we get onto their parents, lets look at their absolute bases

UNIT    HP ST MG SK SP LC DF RS   
INIGO   11 05 02 04 09 12 04 04
BRADY   09 06 05 04 02 10 07 04

as you can see, Inigo's win in Speed is far more important than Brady's small wins elsewhere, as +7 speed is a pretty big hole to crawl out of.

Now moving on to the parents, Olivia is going to be paired with motherfucking LEGEND. Chrom is better of elsewhere, Frederick is with one of the pegasi, and LEGEND and Olivia complement each other nicely, as Olivia is going pegasus knight->darkflier for galeforce for Inigo, and the Sniper bonuses give Strength and Defence, which Olivia just loooooves. Not to mention that Virion is an excellent unit for dual strikes, with his essentially 11 base skill and assumed 70% growth.

SB is assuming VaikexMaribelle, for the record, i'll let him explain his reasoning on that one.

Now, we've agreed that after chapter 18 is a good point to recruit these fine units, because that's what we agreed on.

Here's a look at the parents' stats and skills at this point

UNIT       CLASS           LEVEL HP ST MG SK SP LC DF RS 
LEGEND     SNIPER       15/15.00 45 23 09 34 24 18 21 12 
OLIVIA     DARKFLIER 10/10/15.00 46 22 16 33 33 28 13 19 
VAIKE      WARRIOR      15/15.00 64 33 03 28 21 16 21 07
MARIBELLE  DARKFLIER 10/10/15.00 42 14 24 28 27 28 11 27

and the kids....

UNIT       CLASS           LEVEL HP ST MG SK SP LC DF RS SKILLS
INIGO      MERCENARY       10.00 39 18 07 25 23 19 13 08 ARMSTHRIFT, PATIENCE, GALEFORCE, BOWFAIRE
BRADY      PRIEST          10.00 39 12 12 17 16 18 10 15 MIRACLE, HEALTOUCH, GALEFORCE, COUNTER

Inigo beats Brady in every stat but Magic and Resistance, and HP, where they tie. Inigo can go Archer->BowKnight to make use of Bowfaire, to give one of his weaker stats a huge boost, and then regain sword access upon entering Bow Knight. It is also beneficial to the whole team to give inigo kills in his paralogue, as for each kill he gets, he gets the team an item! Fabulous. Upon his reclass to archer, he can easily pick off the flying enemies near the start of his chapter, two per turn due to GALEFORCE, so he'll have no problem promoting. Also worth noting, his paralogue sells second seals and rescue staves, which is pretty neat too. In case the risen decide to be dicks.

From then on out, Inigo's combat outweighs whatever Brady is doing with those pitiful statistics. I'll let SB take over from here.

[SB.]

Well Horace, I wouldn't count Brady out of this just yet! In fact, his "pitiful statistics" are exactly why he's so great!

Also, you forgot to mention what Inigo's stats were compared to Brady's after reclassing. Brady is going Thief, since it allows him to promote to Trickster so he can make use off his staff rank to be a 7 move staffbot, with access to a multitude of effective weaponry!

UNIT    CLASS   LV.XP HP ST MA SK SP LC DE RE WEAPON SKILLS
BRADY   THIEF   01.00 42 15 09 21 19 18 10 08 SW D   MIRACLE, HEALTOUCH, GALEFORCE, COUNTER, LOCKTOUCH  
INIGO   ARCHER  01.00 37 18 07 25 22 19 13 08 BW D   ARMSTHRIFT, PATIENCE, GALEFORCE, BOWFAIRE, SKILL +2

Both units got Arms Scrolls, although the effect is much more noticable on Brady than it is on Inigo. Inigo gets Iron Bows, big woop. D Swords on the other hand is a very important benchmark for any sword units, as it gives them access to Iron Swords (which have the same MT as Chrom's Falchion, with even more hit!), Wyrmslayers, Armourslayers, and most importantly Leif's Blade!

Leif's Blade, as we all know, is one of the best weapons in the game. It allows the player to surpass the 5 skill cap (although it might as well be 4, as any unit without Galeforce is worthless) and earns the player money! This means that every time Brady gets a kill (which should be 2 every player phase, as least) he has a 19% chance to earn the player money, which is really in short supply in this game. This helps to afford more Brave Weapons for endgame, as there's around a 35% chance per turn that Brady is bringing in more dosh for your crew. This number only increases over time, too, and doesn't factor in pair up at all! On top of that, he has Locktouch to help fill your team's bank. You never need to use a scrub like Gaius, or (god forbid) Anna ever again.

Brady also uses less weapon uses than Inigo, even if he has Armsthrift. Why is that? Simple: Counter. You might think that Counter is a useless skill that only helps the enemy, but you couldn't be more wrong. Thanks to his father being THE VAIKE, Brady has a massive amount of HP to abuse, which is only helped by his low defenses. Just have him melee an enemy, which he'll be doing until he reaches for Levin Swords, which he has a total monopoly over since there will be no reason to have Anna in play thanks to his presence. He might not do a lot of damage (although in this case, you're sandbagging him by not giving him his +5 MT forges) but then when the enemy hits back, they're down for the count. Or should I say the Counter. Using this tactic, Brady can 2RKO Walhart in Chapter 19 - how boss is that?

Your move Horace, although there's no way you can still think that Inigo is better at this point.

[General Horace]

Upon reclassing to Archer, you forget that since is father is LEGENDARY, he gets a nifty +5 Strength when he attacks, pushing his Strength to an amazing 23! Against the DarkFliers (45HP13DEF) in his join chapter with his +5 forged Iron Bow and a LEGENDARY SUPPORT which gives him 5 more strength, he's flat out OHKO'ing them, as a level one archer! Then he can do the same on his next move! Incredible! And this is only his join chapter. Note that Brady does nothing of value in his join chapter because he's spending a turn as a lolpriest and by the time he's reclassed, he's too weak to fight the enemies in his chapters because of no ranged option. He's even doing a very respectable 41 damage to the griffon riders, which is pretty awesome. This is also not counting any chip in from LEGEND himself, who due to his high skill, has a high dual attack rate.

But you know other than Galeforce, Inigo's best skill is Armsthrift. This allows him to used a forged glass bow to get his weapon rank up even further. This allows him to reach 82 effective attack, and he has a high chance to save this amazing weapon due to his high luck base, and of course, because he has armsthrift, he should get all the goddess icons, because really, who else wants them?

But when all is said and done, Inigo gains 10 levels through his paralogue and Brady's, because we're getting benefits for him getting kills in his paralouge (like a speedwings!!!) while i'll give Brady 2 levels to be a nice guy. Inigo is already promoting in time for chapter 19, to BowKnight, so he'll now have C Bows, and C Swords.

UNIT      CLASS               LEVEL  HP ST MG SK SP LC DF RS SKILLS 
INIGO     BOWKNIGHT           01.00  53 26 09 33 31 32 17 12 ARMSTHRIFT, GALEFORCE, BOWFAIRE, PATIENCE, SKILL+2

Brady is pretty much the same as what SB posted above, give or take 1-2 stats, so its not a huge difference. Now Brady might be able to 2RKO Walhart with his face, but Inigo, with a killer bow and LEGEND support gives him 6 more strength, along with 5 more from Bowfaire, boosting his attack up to 47 with the killer bow, or 55 with the forged glass bow. With a Strength tonic, he cleanly ORKO's Walhart with the Glass Bow, and doesn't even need to eat a counter to the face! He one turns Walhart if he's rescued ahead, Galeforces by killing an enemy, then kills Walhart before he can even move! LEGENDARY.

You also mention Leif Blade's as being an excellent weapon. They are. However, due to Inigo's much higher luck, he's a much better recipiant of such a weapon, since he has a higher chance of producing buillons.

Brady can't handle fights as well as Inigo can either due to not having Patience to increase his avoid on the enemy phase. Inigo also has better battle quotes, because I've never heard Brady's because he's too much of a chump to fight well. It's looking like it is his last dance now.

[SB.]

Oh no! A +5 Strength from pairup, and another +5 from using bows! What's that? Vaike gives an outright +8 no matter what weapon Brady's using, so he doesn't need to rely on bows, which give no enemy phase. It's slightly worse, but it's less situational. Vaike has pretty good skill himself, and hits harder when he does dual attack, so it evens out.

But this is only when Inigo's using Bows, of course. You might say that Patience makes it worthwhile, and while it's undeniably one of the better skills in the game, it really doesn't make up for the lack of counters. Which is also something else Inigo lacks. You see, I left out one minor detail about Counter on Brady, and why it's such a useful tool for him. What would this miracle working skill be?

Miracle. He gets the thing for free, no matter who his father is. This means that even if an enemy was going to completely woop him, they're in for a rude awakening. Then have his mother (reclassed to Falcoknight, since flying staffbotting is amazing, especially when you have GALEFORCE) swoop in and heal him. Rinse, and repeat.

You may argue that Inigo gets more kills, which is slightly true, but you're blowing it completely out of proportion. While Inigo can take on fliers in his join, Brady and his dad are smashing Generals in half with their effective weaponry! Not only are they a much more immediate threat, but they're also some of the more difficult enemies on the map to kill, unlike those chump Dark Fliers who have piss poor defenses. They also eat the man alive on enemy phase, since there's only one of him, and five fliers.

What do you know? There are only two Generals! Only a scrub like Inigo would require the help of 2-3 other members of our team, such as Donnel, Miriel or Noire to divert their attention from the main cluster of enemies and bail his sorry ass out. On top of this, there are another flying force blitzing from the other side of the map, and you've already squandered (at the very least) a third of your deployment slots on keeping the aforementioned scrub alive.

Brady also can contribute in his starting chapter, if only a little, and gain a few levels there. Inigo will outright detract from the clear due to lack of enemy phase anyhow, so I think Brady can be justified getting AT LEAST the same amount of training. I think if the worthless Inigo can gain 9 levels and promote in that time, I see no reason why Brady can't. We'll also assume that he got the Energy Drop from Yen'Fay's chapter, something that Inigo can't do, since he opened the damn chest and deserves it. He also gets the same amount of Icons as Inigo, to help with Miracle.

UNIT      CLASS               LEVEL  HP ST MG SK SP LC DF RS SKILLS 
INIGO     BOWKNIGHT           01.00  53 26 09 33 31 32 17 12 ARMSTHRIFT, GALEFORCE, BOWFAIRE, PATIENCE, SKILL+2
BRADY     TRICKSTER           01.00  52 22 16 30 27 33 14 16 GALEFORCE, COUNTER, MOVE +1, LOCKTOUCH, MIRACLE

Inigo only has minor offensive leads, with the MT lead still favouring Brady due to his dad. He only loses in HP (by 1 point) skill (lolskill), speed and defense. Brady is pulling a sizable magic and resistance lead, and winning luck by a margin. The only lead that matters for Inigo is the speed one - since the defense lead actually works in Brady's favor, due to Counter.

Even with Armsthrift, you're still squandering your money by forging Glass Bows for him. On average, they last for around 9 hits when Inigo has 32 luck. Then what? "Oh no, I have no money!" Brady isn't even completely reliant on Miracle, since he actually has enough durability to take hits. Don't be tricked by the statistics above, virtually none of Inigo's leads matter. Inigo also can't 1 turn Walhart alone, since he needs help from a Rescuer. Where better to look than Brady, with his 7 move? Also, 1 turning Walhart is inefficient, as it results in a loss of experience gained for the team, without which Inigo and other units will fall behind on the level curve. This issue is less prominent for Brady, since he has Rescue to at least give him a quick burst of experience before the chapter ends.

Brady has every claim to the Leif's Blade, since he actually DOES have the higher luck, and is in a Sword using class for much longer than Inigo, so he has more time to use the thing. You also skirted over the fact that Inigo has virtually no variation in weapon selection until his promotion - so he's missing out on Leif's Blade, the Soothing Sword and all of the other important weapons until he's in Bow Knight. Even when Inigo gets there, he loses a lot of his power due to his reliance on Bowfaire, making Brady a superior user of those weapons.

Brady makes his ma proud, which is more than Inigo can say.

[General Horace]

WRT Bowfaire, Inigo already has higher strength than Brady, along with a higher growth, its only bound to expand as they both gain levels, which is very quickly, as they are both very important units to the team. And yes, Brady might have TEACH as a partner, but TEACH is debateably a better lead unit than Brady since he already has counter, and MASSIVE strength and HP to back it up. While LEGEND may be LEGENDARY, his stats leave much to be desired come lategame, making Inigo an amazing lead unit in comparison. And all the fliers are going to be dead on the player phase, due to Inigo killing two already, and you have many units with GALEFORCE already. Once the mothers are done pairing up for their children, they can even support EACH OTHER for a total hax DOUBLE GALEFORCE COMBO which is pretty rare among first gen units.

UNIT      CLASS               LEVEL  HP ST MG SK SP LC DF RS SKILLS 
INIGO     BOWKNIGHT           01.00  53 26 09 33 31 32 17 12 ARMSTHRIFT, GALEFORCE, BOWFAIRE, PATIENCE, SKILL+2
BRADY     TRICKSTER           01.00  52 22 16 30 27 33 14 16 GALEFORCE, COUNTER, MOVE +1, LOCKTOUCH, MIRACLE

26+6= 32 str

22+9= 31 str

looks like Inigo still wins MT

Also take a gander at the growths:

HP ST MG SK SP LC DF RS 
91 56 23 65 65 55 30 26 
83 43 45 61 51 61 31 35

the top being inigo, and the bottom being Brady. With ~15% leads in strength and speed, and leads everywhere but magic, luck, and res (defence might as well be tied), its pretty clear Inigo will be better offensively as the game proceeds. While Brady does win luck, yes, both of their luck is so high that its a negligible win.

Inigo does in fact have a enemy phase, he can use his first move to kill something easily with bowfaire, then switch to whatever weapon is right for the situation, can counter from 2 range with proper positioning, or can just retaliate with swords (better than Brady, mind you).

While Brady might have counter, he's sacrificing HP in order to get kills, whereas Inigo is just killing shit dead, without taking counters at all. Lets fastforward to around chapter 22, where they've gained a few levels.

UNIT      CLASS               LEVEL  HP ST MG SK SP LC DF RS SKILLS 
INIGO     BOWKNIGHT           10.00  61 31 11 39 37 37 20 14 ARMSTHRIFT, GALEFORCE, BOWFAIRE, PATIENCE, RALLY SKILL
BRADY     TRICKSTER           10.00  59 26 20 35 32 38 17 19 GALEFORCE, COUNTER, MOVE +1, LUCKY 7, MIRACLE

I removed Locktouch from Brady since there are no more chests or doors for the rest of the game. Inigo sitll has sizable leads more or less everywhere. Brady (if he chooses to equip lucky 7) loses his whole counter gimmick by being harder to hit, but if he doesn't equip it, Inigo gets another skill lead on him, and one that improves critrate is always a really good one. Inigo is going to have 9 movement with a LEGENDARY pair, along with Galeforce for all the movement he needs, while Brady is stuck at 7 movement, and his offence suffers if he takes Maribelle as his partner, and she's better off using staves and Rally Moving anyway. Inigo has unparalleled offence with the Astra bow, (woo another skill for Inigo) and with his high skill, its procing very often.

Also I forgot to mention it, the Glass bow is only a temporary forge for Inigo until he promotes, since he'll have C bows by then and be able to use the much better killer bow anyway.

I think you'll have one more rebuttal, than we'll get somebody to judge our debate and declare the victor.

[SB.]

Brady may lose by 1MT, but odds are Vaike will help him more than make up for it. Even if he doesn't, it's just a single point of damage that won't amount to much, if anything. And this is a debate between the kids, not the fathers, so that point is moot.

Also, if you're evaluating their lategame performances on combat alone, you're just ignoring Brady's crucial leads. Lategame, Brady can phase out of fighting and help the team by staffbotting. Healing itself can be pretty useful for your weaker units since the enemy starts to get serious with their weaponry. Chapter 23 is hell for fragile units in particular, and it can mean the difference between life and death. To focus on this, Counter would be switched out for Healtouch, seeing as how it's already done it's job.

Thanks to Galeforce and Physic (possibly double Galeforce if he's paired with his mother or something) Brady has a prescence all over the map, as far as healing goes.This also helps with Rescue if you're rescueskipping the later chapters, or helps to keep up with the rushing unit in chapters with long winding corridoors (hint: chapter 21) and make sure they're safe and sound. Meanwhile, Inigo's being a selfish jerk and not helping the team in any way aside from combat, which can be much more easily replicated by others.

Brady IS the team's life support lategame, being able to take out an enemy, heal an ally, and whisk them out of harms way. Alternatively he can send them well on the way to the boss, especially since most lategame Chapters are defeat bosses. When Chapter 25 rolls around, Brady laughs at it with his newly aquired Acrobatics Skill, allowing him to charge over the mountains and rescue over another unit for an easy 2 turn. He's never dying on the thing, with Lucky 7, the terrain boost, and his insanely high Luck. Also, Brady doesn't need crazy shit like a weapon forged for 3 rounds of combat to train, he just needs his face to block things with. Inigo is pretty useless here, he can't even be rescued onto the mountain - 9 move or otherwise.

[Refa]

So apparently I am the judge, being a master of efficiency playthroughs (I was going to show you proof, but then I decided to be efficient and not), among other things. I have also not played Fire Emblem Awakening, and unlike other people who have immersed themselves in every aspect of the game before purchase, all I know is it stars some dude named Chrome who bangs some chick to produce Marth who isn't really Marth...I think. So this will be fun.

Ok folks, it is time to settle something that has been a hot topic for a while, among the kid units, who is the stronger unit between the ever fabulous Inigo, or the massive chump (just like Shin), Brady.

So apparently Brady is a chump or something. I will keep this in mind.

First off, we'll look at their base classes. Inigo is a Mercenary, which means he has instant access to armsthrift, which is a totally amazing skill that allows him to abuse his high luck to use forged weapons whenever he wants without worry. Patience makes him a dodge tank on the enemy phase, which is where he's facing most of the action.

I'm pretty sure armsthrift like, I dunno, saves a weapon use depending on your luck or something. Seems highly situational, I don't buy this.

Now moving on to the parents, Olivia is going to be paired with motherfucking LEGEND. Chrom is better of elsewhere, Frederick is with one of the pegasi, and LEGEND and Olivia complement each other nicely, as Olivia is going pegasus knight->darkflier for galeforce for Inigo, and the Sniper bonuses give Strength and Defence, which Olivia just loooooves. Not to mention that Virion is an excellent unit for dual strikes, with his essentially 11 base skill and assumed 70% growth.

What about Caeda, I heard she's in this game as a Spotpass character. You could marry her to Olivia for an even better STR and DEF boost.

UNIT CLASS LEVEL HP ST MG SK SP LC DF RS SKILLS
INIGO MERCENARY 10.00 39 18 07 25 23 19 13 08 ARMSTHRIFT, PATIENCE, GALEFORCE, BOWFAIRE
BRADY PRIEST 10.00 39 12 12 17 16 18 10 15 MIRACLE, HEALTOUCH, GALEFORCE, COUNTER

Inigo beats Brady in every stat but Magic and Resistance, and HP, where they tie. Inigo can go Archer->BowKnight to make use of Bowfaire, to give one of his weaker stats a huge boost, and then regain sword access upon entering Bow Knight. It is also beneficial to the whole team to give inigo kills in his paralogue, as for each kill he gets, he gets the team an item! Fabulous. Upon his reclass to archer, he can easily pick off the flying enemies near the start of his chapter, two per turn due to GALEFORCE, so he'll have no problem promoting. Also worth noting, his paralogue sells second seals and rescue staves, which is pretty neat too. In case the risen decide to be dicks.

Wow, Inigo's base stats are better than Shanan's. What a cheater. I think you need to recheck your facts though, Bow Knights can't use swords, only Nomad Troopers.

OK, onto SB's side of the story.

Well Horace, I wouldn't count Brady out of this just yet! In fact, his "pitiful statistics" are exactly why he's so great!

Is there some FE11 "you have to sacrifice a character" stuff in FE13?

That's what I assume you're going on about.

Both units got Arms Scrolls, although the effect is much more noticable on Brady than it is on Inigo. Inigo gets Iron Bows, big woop. D Swords on the other hand is a very important benchmark for any sword units, as it gives them access to Iron Swords (which have the same MT as Chrom's Falchion, with even more hit!), Wyrmslayers, Armourslayers, and most importantly Leif's Blade!

Iron Swords have 14 might?! Wow, Brady is really getting a lot out of that arm scroll. Not to mention being able to use Light Sword! That +10 luck will let him save more uses with armsthrift if he had that but he doesn't.

Leif's Blade, as we all know, is one of the best weapons in the game. It allows the player to surpass the 5 skill cap (although it might as well be 4, as any unit without Galeforce is worthless) and earns the player money! This means that every time Brady gets a kill (which should be 2 every player phase, as least) he has a 19% chance to earn the player money, which is really in short supply in this game. This helps to afford more Brave Weapons for endgame, as there's around a 35% chance per turn that Brady is bringing in more dosh for your crew. This number only increases over time, too, and doesn't factor in pair up at all! On top of that, he has Locktouch to help fill your team's bank. You never need to use a scrub like Gaius, or (god forbid) Anna ever again.

Your logic seems kind of flawed here. I'm pretty sure skill caps at 20. Although money is pretty short in FE13, just like every other FE game, so that 19% chance to earn the player money would probably help.

Anna is kind of lame too, she charges way too much for Goddess Icons.

Brady also uses less weapon uses than Inigo, even if he has Armsthrift. Why is that? Simple: Counter. You might think that Counter is a useless skill that only helps the enemy, but you couldn't be more wrong. Thanks to his father being THE VAIKE, Brady has a massive amount of HP to abuse, which is only helped by his low defenses. Just have him melee an enemy, which he'll be doing until he reaches for Levin Swords, which he has a total monopoly over since there will be no reason to have Anna in play thanks to his presence. He might not do a lot of damage (although in this case, you're sandbagging him by not giving him his +5 MT forges) but then when the enemy hits back, they're down for the count. Or should I say the Counter. Using this tactic, Brady can 2RKO Walhart in Chapter 19 - how boss is that?

I don't approve of sandbagging.

However, I feel I must mention Counter sucks. If Titania couldn't use it well, noone can.

OK, back to Horace.

Upon reclassing to Archer, you forget that since is father is LEGENDARY, he gets a nifty +5 Strength when he attacks, pushing his Strength to an amazing 23! Against the DarkFliers (45HP13DEF) in his join chapter with his +5 forged Iron Bow and a LEGENDARY SUPPORT which gives him 5 more strength, he's flat out OHKO'ing them, as a level one archer! Then he can do the same on his next move! Incredible! And this is only his join chapter.

I'm pretty sure Inigo starts at level 10. Very poor research on your part, Horace.

But you know other than Galeforce, Inigo's best skill is Armsthrift. This allows him to used a forged glass bow to get his weapon rank up even further. This allows him to reach 82 effective attack, and he has a high chance to save this amazing weapon due to his high luck base, and of course, because he has armsthrift, he should get all the goddess icons, because really, who else wants them?

Well, I can't argue with that logic.

But when all is said and done, Inigo gains 10 levels through his paralogue and Brady's, because we're getting benefits for him getting kills in his paralouge (like a speedwings!!!) while i'll give Brady 2 levels to be a nice guy. Inigo is already promoting in time for chapter 19, to BowKnight, so he'll now have C Bows, and C Swords.

I'm fairly certain the amount of levels units can gain in paralogues is capped at 3.5.

Brady is pretty much the same as what SB posted above, give or take 1-2 stats, so its not a huge difference. Now Brady might be able to 2RKO Walhart with his face, but Inigo, with a killer bow and LEGEND support gives him 6 more strength, along with 5 more from Bowfaire, boosting his attack up to 47 with the killer bow, or 55 with the forged glass bow. With a Strength tonic, he cleanly ORKO's Walhart with the Glass Bow, and doesn't even need to eat a counter to the face! He one turns Walhart if he's rescued ahead, Galeforces by killing an enemy, then kills Walhart before he can even move! LEGENDARY.

Sadly, being a bow locked user, his poor enemy phase hurts his capacity to engage in meaningful player phase offense. At least Brady can use a Berserk staff, since I think that's E rank IIRC.

You also mention Leif Blade's as being an excellent weapon. They are. However, due to Inigo's much higher luck, he's a much better recipiant of such a weapon, since he has a higher chance of producing buillons.

I thought Leaf's Blade acted as a vulnerary...

Brady can't handle fights as well as Inigo can either due to not having Patience to increase his avoid on the enemy phase. Inigo also has better battle quotes, because I've never heard Brady's because he's too much of a chump to fight well. It's looking like it is his last dance now.

Well, I guess it's over for SB, this logic is too compelling to ignore.

Still, might as well give him a chance.

Or two. Wow, these debates are LONG.

I'll post the rest of my thoughts when I get back, have this to tantalize you about who the winner will be.

[Refa]

Well, let's finish it up. For the record, I would've finished faster, but Shin sucked me into one of those D&D alignment tests. I'm a sucker for those.

Oh no! A +5 Strength from pairup, and another +5 from using bows! What's that? Vaike gives an outright +8 no matter what weapon Brady's using, so he doesn't need to rely on bows, which give no enemy phase. It's slightly worse, but it's less situational. Vaike has pretty good skill himself, and hits harder when he does dual attack, so it evens out.

Well, SB is off to a good start. A 5 boost from pair up plus a 5 boost from bows is only a 7 boost for Inigo, which is 3 less than the +8 boost Vaike gives to Brady. Plus, bows suck. dondon told me so.

Miracle. He gets the thing for free, no matter who his father is. This means that even if an enemy was going to completely woop him, they're in for a rude awakening. Then have his mother (reclassed to Falcoknight, since flying staffbotting is amazing, especially when you have GALEFORCE) swoop in and heal him. Rinse, and repeat.

I'd think his mother has better things to do than make sure her son doesn't die. Worst case scenario, she gets to spend more time in bed with Vaike.

You may argue that Inigo gets more kills, which is slightly true, but you're blowing it completely out of proportion. While Inigo can take on fliers in his join, Brady and his dad are smashing Generals in half with their effective weaponry! Not only are they a much more immediate threat, but they're also some of the more difficult enemies on the map to kill, unlike those chump Dark Fliers who have piss poor defenses. They also eat the man alive on enemy phase, since there's only one of him, and five fliers.

Actually, I think Dark Fliers are vegetarians. However, nothing's stopping them from feeding Inigo to the general. Good thing Brady's got that Permanently Silence staff.

What do you know? There are only two Generals! Only a scrub like Inigo would require the help of 2-3 other members of our team, such as Donnel, Miriel or Noire to divert their attention from the main cluster of enemies and bail his sorry ass out. On top of this, there are another flying force blitzing from the other side of the map, and you've already squandered (at the very least) a third of your deployment slots on keeping the aforementioned scrub alive.

To be fair, I'm pretty sure it's impossible to beat the game without heavy use of Donnel.

Also, 1 turning Walhart is inefficient, as it results in a loss of experience gained for the team, without which Inigo and other units will fall behind on the level curve. This issue is less prominent for Brady, since he has Rescue to at least give him a quick burst of experience before the chapter ends.

True, true, this is an efficient playthrough, after all. Not to mention Galeforce merely makes Inigo steal even more EXP.

Brady has every claim to the Leif's Blade, since he actually DOES have the higher luck, and is in a Sword using class for much longer than Inigo, so he has more time to use the thing. You also skirted over the fact that Inigo has virtually no variation in weapon selection until his promotion - so he's missing out on Leif's Blade, the Soothing Sword and all of the other important weapons until he's in Bow Knight. Even when Inigo gets there, he loses a lot of his power due to his reliance on Bowfaire, making Brady a superior user of those weapons.

Brady makes his ma proud, which is more than Inigo can say.

Bow Knights can't even use swords, so really, he's missing out on them forever. However, after he promotes into a Bow Knight, one could reclass Inigo to a Bride to make use of its A base lance rank, which is rather overpowered, tbqh.

Plus it would make his mom proud, Ninian always wanted a baby girl.

OK, SB managed to convince me that his case wasn't a lost case, but can Horace prove that I'm wrong about that?

And all the fliers are going to be dead on the player phase, due to Inigo killing two already, and you have many units with GALEFORCE already. Once the mothers are done pairing up for their children, they can even support EACH OTHER for a total hax DOUBLE GALEFORCE COMBO which is pretty rare among first gen units.

Well, all of the first gen units die at the end of Chapter 5, so even that OP combo is not as OP as it seems. Still, it's nice for Inigo while it lasts.

Also take a gander at the growths:

HP ST MG SK SP LC DF RS
91 56 23 65 65 55 30 26
83 43 45 61 51 61 31 35

the top being inigo, and the bottom being Brady. With ~15% leads in strength and speed, and leads everywhere but magic, luck, and res (defence might as well be tied), its pretty clear Inigo will be better offensively as the game proceeds. While Brady does win luck, yes, both of their luck is so high that its a negligible win.

Everyone knows the site's growths are incorrect though.

Inigo has unparalleled offence with the Astra bow, (woo another skill for Inigo) and with his high skill, its procing very often.

While that would be rather cool if that were the case, I regret to inform you that Astra is locked to swordmasters.

Also I forgot to mention it, the Glass bow is only a temporary forge for Inigo until he promotes, since he'll have C bows by then and be able to use the much better killer bow anyway.

I think you'll have one more rebuttal, than we'll get somebody to judge our debate and declare the victor.

Not to mention the Long Bow, which when combined with his 9 move (+2 with Boots, which doubled = 18 thanks to Galeforce), gives him ridiculously good range.

Well, let's see SB's final rebuttal before we get on with deciding who the winner is.

Thanks to Galeforce and Physic (possibly double Galeforce if he's paired with his mother or something) Brady has a prescence all over the map, as far as healing goes.This also helps with Rescue if you're rescueskipping the later chapters, or helps to keep up with the rushing unit in chapters with long winding corridoors (hint: chapter 21) and make sure they're safe and sound. Meanwhile, Inigo's being a selfish jerk and not helping the team in any way aside from combat, which can be much more easily replicated by others.

I never thought to pair Brady with his mother! That's a very good point, double Galeforce will give him like, 7 x 4 = 21 move, which is 2 more move than Inigo, although he's losing out against that Long Bow range, unless of course, he has a Physics staff equipped.

Brady IS the team's life support lategame, being able to take out an enemy, heal an ally, and whisk them out of harms way. Alternatively he can send them well on the way to the boss, especially since most lategame Chapters are defeat bosses. When Chapter 25 rolls around, Brady laughs at it with his newly aquired Acrobatics Skill, allowing him to charge over the mountains and rescue over another unit for an easy 2 turn. He's never dying on the thing, with Lucky 7, the terrain boost, and his insanely high Luck. Also, Brady doesn't need crazy shit like a weapon forged for 3 rounds of combat to train, he just needs his face to block things with. Inigo is pretty useless here, he can't even be rescued onto the mountain - 9 move or otherwise.

I'm pretty sure FE13 doesn't have Rescue, only pair up.

So what did I think overall? I thought both sides made fairly good arguments, although there were flaws to be had with both of them. However, neither characters were rated yet in Anacybelle's rating topic, so I'm not sure how the general populace thinks in terms of which one is better.

However, SB used too much math which overcomplicated his argument. Facts are good and all, but debates are all about opinions and trying to fool other people into thinking that they are facts, not actual facts. Therefore, I'll have to award Horace the victory. Better luck next time, SB.

[dondon151]

However, SB used too much math which overcomplicated his argument. Facts are good and all, but debates are all about opinions and trying to fool other people into thinking that they are facts, not actual facts. Therefore, I'll have to award Horace the victory. Better luck next time, SB.

there is no place for facts in a debate

[shadykid]

what's happening here

actually this is hilarious, you guys set this up beforehand right

Edited May 29, 2013 by shadykid

[dondon151]

he is just doing what is right and ignoring the facts

[Ema Skye]

Best debate ever.

Inigo only won because he's LEGEND's kid though. Brady is clearly superior, just ask his mom.

[Xinnidy]

This is bootiful and I have to tip my hat to the participants of the only debate I've ever read.

*tips hat*

[Jedi]

Best debate I've ever seen. 10/10 Would read again

-Tips his hat-

[ZemZem]

so who wins

Oh, Horace won. >_< Damn, I was rooting for SB. *is dumb and didn't read the end of Refa's post*

Edited May 29, 2013 by Zeem

[secondworld]

Refa should judge everything ever from now on.

[SB.]

Especially for games he's never played.

[Breezy Kanzaki]

Roofa for President 2013. He will judge ALL of the things

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Refa/10

[SB.]

[23:00:52] Xinux Xinstar: hahaha horace won

[23:00:53] Jedi: bwhahahaha

[23:01:04] Xinux Xinstar: loool

[23:01:07] Hiro Protagonist: i just used random.org for the winner

[23:01:10] Hiro Protagonist: but dont tell anyone

[23:02:30] SB: rapha is da worst judge

[23:02:41] SB: remind me never to let him judge a game he never played ever again

[shadykid]

Best debate ever.

Inigo only won because he's LEGEND's kid though. Brady is clearly superior, just ask his mom.

Vaike+Maribelle vs Virion+Olivia, let's get the first 2v2 character debate started

(j/k)

Edited May 29, 2013 by shadykid

[Refa]

That's forged by SB, resentful that he lost at the hands of General Shin!

[ZemZem]

Vaike vs. Virion would be a fun debate.

...Judging them on their personalities. They're both pretty hilarious.

LEGEND VS. TEACH

[SB.]

I can accept losing to Horace, but to Shin!?

[Da Bear]

First off Refa was extremely inaccurate in several places, I'll start there then move on to a few comments I would like to make

Iron Swords have 14 might?! Wow, Brady is really getting a lot out of that arm scroll. Not to mention being able to use Light Sword! That +10 luck will let him save more uses with armsthrift if he had that but he doesn't.



Your logic seems kind of flawed here. I'm pretty sure skill caps at 20. Although money is pretty short in FE13, just like every other FE game, so that 19% chance to earn the player money would probably help.





I'm pretty sure Inigo starts at level 10. Very poor research on your part, Horace.

I'm fairly certain the amount of levels units can gain in paralogues is capped at 3.5.

Accidentally erased the part about the berserk staff but that doesn't exist in this game so...

They don't

It doesn't.

Reclassing resets a character to level 1.

It's not.

Actually, I think Dark Fliers are vegetarians. However, nothing's stopping them from feeding Inigo to the general. Good thing Brady's got that Permanently Silence staff.

To be fair, I'm pretty sure it's impossible to beat the game without heavy use of Donnel.

True, true, this is an efficient playthrough, after all. Not to mention Galeforce merely makes Inigo steal even more EXP.

Bow Knights can't even use swords, so really, he's missing out on them forever. However, after he promotes into a Bow Knight, one could reclass Inigo to a Bride to make use of its A base lance rank, which is rather overpowered, tbqh.

Well, all of the first gen units die at the end of Chapter 5, so even that OP combo is not as OP as it seems. Still, it's nice for Inigo while it lasts.

While that would be rather cool if that were the case, I regret to inform you that Astra is locked to swordmasters.

I'm pretty sure FE13 doesn't have Rescue, only pair up.

Silence staff doesn't exist in this game.

trolololol

wow...

Yes they can... This is just trolling.

I... I what?

It's not...

Rescue staff man...

Alright then my own nitpicks.

First off, You guys both chose terrible pairings. Virion is bad and hard to level, especially when paired with Olivia. Vaike X Maribelle is just plain terrible, terrible for both sides of the pairings. Vaike gets magic and Maribelle gets strength. WOW just what they need, except it's not and you should feel bad for suggesting it.

Secondly; Olivia, Virion and Maribelle are not getting to that high of a level in an efficient PT so your arguments are both pretty much pointless because what you're describing will never happen.

In case you guys haven't figured it out yet: this debate and it's judging is terrible. You both lose and should feel very bad.

Unless you guys were trolling in which case you should feel worse and request this to go to FFtF.