SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[Jiac]

I know Chrom is old news but why not?

Chrom got Falcon Punched so hard he got knocked off the roster.

[Silent Letters]

I saw nothing homosexual about it...why does it have to be sexual? Can't it just be two friends taking a picture together?

This is the internet. Every relationship is sexual, regardless of any amount of evidence for or against it.

[Dai]

I'm late to the party! I blame accidentally wiping the operating system on my really old laptop, so I'll just type this from my Wii U.

Okay, so! My opinions!

The video itself: okay, I'd been hoping for the past while that, if they DID announce a new rep for Fire Emblem, they would use the animation style for Awakening's cutscenes. Since they did, I am very, very happy. My only disappointment is that I was hoping that they would show the newcomer(s) fighting Marth and Ike in that beautiful style. However, unveiling Captain Falcon's return in that style was honestly pretty cool, so it makes up for it.

Lucina: I honestly wasn't expecting her, truly. Admittedly, I was hoping for Chrom, not because of Gematsu, but because I just wanted him if they'd been able to make a moveset for him. Lucina, however, is great by me. Hell, her being a clone (semi or otherwise) is okay too because she's still a bit different, and she DID at times try to emulate him in Awakening. I just hope that her Final Smash is something different, but I doubt it.

Robin: I expected them even less than Lucina, but their inclusion makes me very happy indeed, and they represented them rather perfectly in my opinion, even if Nosferatu kind of threw me off a little bit, sensible enough though it might be. I do hope that their tomes regenerate over time, though. I like to think that Chrom lent Robin the convoy for Smash, hence how they can carry all this stuff.

[Phoenix Wright]

I'm in the opposite camp. I think that turning a legitimate, unique character into a costume for another character is usually bastardizing that character (I say usually because there's exceptions. To name one: Dr. Mario, even if he played differently in Melee, is still basically just Mario in a doctor outfit, and I wouldn't be at all upset if he came back as an alternate costume of Mario). Which is why I'm glad that Sakurai decided to give Lucina her own slot instead of making her a Marth costume.

good point. the compromise is to make the characters even more distant from each other, which is what brawl did reasonably well. here's to it continuing (and ganon getting one or two sword attacks, since he has swords i think it makes sense).

Chrom got Falcon Punched so hard he got knocked off the roster.

the cap don't need to be top tier to be a god. :p

[kingddd]

We've just announced two new characters who will be joining the fray in the upcoming Super Smash Bros. for 3DS and Wii U. One is Robin, the avatar from Fire Emblem: Awakening, and the other is Lucina, a swordswoman who plays an important role in the same title. I'll skip over the details.

"What? Not Chrom!?" I suspect a lot of you will ask. Of course, Chrom is quite popular, being the protagonist of FE:A and all. However, I chose Robin and Lucina, and I will elaborate on my reasoning.

Robin appears in the game as a Tactician and functions much like a Mystic Knight (note: FF terminology, but equivalent to magic swordsman). I thought to utilize his all-around nature by assigning swordplay to his Smash attacks and magic tomes to his special attacks--that is, allow him to use magic.

His neutral special is thunder magic that grows stronger the larger you charge it. He uses fire magic for his side special, and wind magic for recovery as his up special. Although Robin doesn't use dark magic in FE:A, I decided to assign it as his down special. It isn't the first time I've given moves to a character that they don't use in their respective game in order to capture certain aspects of the original title.

I also implemented the system used in FE:A, in which tomes break after overuse. Likewise, I included a similar system for the Levin Sword, which breaks after a certain number of uses. However, both the tomes and the Levin Sword will quickly regenerate after a set period of time.

Lucina uses the same techniques as Marth, a fighter with whom I'm sure most of you are already familiar. I even went so far as to make their strength, speed, and special attacks almost identical.

However, what sets Lucina apart is the fact that the strength of her attacks is uniform along the blade. Marth's playstyle emulates the elegant swordplay of a fencer by dealing more damage when he strikes with the tip of his blade, but the damage Lucina deals is evened out. Thus, I think that Lucina will be much easier than Marth for novice players to play with.

I played all the way through FE:A and really wanted to include a character from that rich cast in Smash Bros. Naturally, I considered adding Chrom to the roster, but the decision wasn't easy by any means.

At the end of the day, Chrom would just end up being another plain-old sword-wielder like Marth and Ike. Compared with other characters, he lacks any unique characteristics.

Conversely, when the idea of including Robin came to mind, conceiving the character was so easy that I immediately saw how it would work. From standards to specials, grabs to throws, all aspects of his moveset just fell into place. Not only did he possess characteristics unlike other fighters, but he also captured the essence of the Fire Emblem series. It was perfect!

In the end, if a game isn't fun, then there's no point. Of course, it would be really easy to make a game by churning out a ton of similar characters, but that's not how I produce games.

Initially, I had considered including Lucina as one of Marth's alternate costumes. After all, she has a close relationship with him in FE:A. In such cases, even if two characters' names and voices differ, as long as they function the same way, I assign them as alternate costumes. The Wii Fit Trainers, Villagers, and Robin are examples of this setup.

However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster since that will affect battle records and whatnot. In that sense, you could say she was very lucky to join the fray!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=121384840&postcount=8201

A translation of the interview Sakurai's "Think About the Video Games" column. A nice little insight of the development on this decision.

[Samias]

I'm the only one who mentioned speculation, so I assume this is a response to my post. And my post said exactly this, that a character being cut for Lucina is mere speculation. So yeah.

Sorry, I should have quoted who I was responding to, but I was in a hurry. And no, it wasn't you. It was directed at the person (who will not be named anyway, it's not worth fighting over. If you know who you are, just move on) who suggested Famitsu is not a credible source of info. For that matter, CoroCoro is not an obscure publication either. I don't expect people to know anything about Japanese magazines, since most people don't really care, but CoroCoro a major publication and is usually the source of first glimpses of new info on Japanese games. It's either them or Famitsu or *maybe* Weekly Jump.

Also, nice to see the entire interview translated. Perhaps Marth has been rebalanced since the demo if his speed and strength isn't remarkably different from Lucina according to Sakurai. I kind of hope the differences are more defined, but at the end of the day, I know I won't actually care once the game is out.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Samias

[Randoman]

To be honest, I'd still believe in Gematsu if we get both Shulk and Chorus Kids.

Same here, especially regarding the Chorus Kids/Men. I mean, Wii Fit Trainer and the Chorus Men were two characters that practically no one would've thought of/requested as playable characters in SSB4. If both Chorus Men and Wii Fit Trainer are playable in SSB4, I highly doubt that was simply a lucky guess on the leaker's part. Sure, Chrom may have been wrong, but it's not like being only 75% right (as of the moment this post was made) makes someone a complete liar/fraud. I'm really sure that it was more of an issue of outdated information, rather than someone just spouting out completely baseless lies about the SSB4 newcomers.

In fact, I'm actually considering doing a "force the loser to use a certain embarrassing sig for a month" bet with Red Fox of Fire regarding Chorus Men being in (I was inspired, if you can call it that, by DLV's bet), especially since she's the most "anti-Gematsu leaker" person here on SF. I wonder if she's game for the idea since she's really certain about Gematsu being a complete fraud...

Masked Lucina is the one that looks the most manly out of the two of them.

Comparison Images in Spoilers:

-Marth has a rather muscular figure , while Lucina is really skinny

-Lucina's legs and arms are thinner than Marth's, and a thin body figure is more associated with females

-Lucina's boots are much higher cut, making her look more feminine

-Lucina has much softer looking facial features than Marth, which also makes her look more feminine

-Lucina's clothes are tighter/skinnier, which is typical of female characters in order to make them look more attractive

-the only thing that looks vaguely unmasculine on Marth is the tiara, which Lucina has anyways

Wut?

I just thought I'd do a comparison in case it wasn't a joke, since NM's Marth hate bias from having an RNG cursed Marth from FE11 is really getting out of hand.

on another note, i feel it us a crime that snake will not be included. he was amazing.

Was there any news on Snake being excluded? Or is it just guessing based on the fact that he hasn't been revealed in a special trailer like Sonic, it's 2 months before the 3DS Japanese release, and it'd be way too late to show Snake now and boost SSB4's sales by advertising his inclusion?

Edited July 17, 2014 by Randoman

[Florete]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=121384840&postcount=8201

A translation of the interview Sakurai's "Think About the Video Games" column. A nice little insight of the development on this decision.

Interesting. I really hope Lucina differs more from Marth than is being suggested, because it would be pretty disappointing to have her be the cloniest clone ever cloned. If there's more than just changes in attack properties, like speed, weight, and jumps, it should be fine.

Also he refused Chrom for the same reason the FE fanbase (those against Chrom, that is) didn't want him. What a bro.

Sorry, I should have quoted who I was responding to, but I was in a hurry. And no, it wasn't you. It was directed at the person (who will not be named anyway, it's not worth fighting over. If you know who you are, just move on) who suggested Famitsu is not a credible source of info.

Okay then. It's just the way you focused on SPECULATION made it look like it could only be me. Maybe you responded to the other person but sort of mistakenly added parts of my post in your response (not that it matters either way...).

In fact, I'm actually considering doing a "force the loser to use a certain embarrassing sig for a month" bet with Red Fox of Fire regarding Chorus Men being in (I was inspired, if you can call it that, by DLV's bet), especially since she's the most "anti-Gematsu leaker" person here on SF. I wonder if she's game for the idea since she's really certain about Gematsu being a complete fraud...

...I am? I mean, sure, I was/am anti-Gematsu, but plenty of people were still skeptical. I even admitted not long ago that I was worried at how legit it was looking. I guess I have been pretty vocal about it...

I guess I could play the bet with you, but I should note that at this point I really don't care if the rest of the leak's information is legit, so long as there aren't only those two remaining newcomers. How would it work? Would Shulk and Chorus Men have to be the only two remaining newcomers, or would they just have to be included?

Edited July 17, 2014 by Red Fox of Fire

[BANRYU]

I'm actually a little sad that I didn't get the 'biggest Gematsu skeptic' title lol I was trying pretty hard for it

I'd definitely say RFoF is one of the more solid predictors from SF this time around, though. I'm starting to believe her guesses over my own and that is NOT an easy thing to make me do.

Regarding the theory of Snake being discluded, I think most people are assuming that he won't return due to his relative lack of involvement with Nintendo's recent history. True, he had a cool and unique moveset like a lot of other characters introduced in Brawl, but I think being third-party kind of exempts him from the return ticket. On the other hand, Sonic has been shown to be well-involved with the company nowadays.

But since it's me who's reasoning that, he'll probably be in anyway now.

Edited July 17, 2014 by BANRYU

[Chiki]

Marth isn't really the mascot of FE outside Japan. It's true he's been in Melee and Brawl, but that doesn't mean he can't be replaced by another potential mascot, like Lucina. Marth is just a waste of a spot at this point, and someone like Snake would be a better idea.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Chiki

[Crimson Red]

About the recent article, this is pretty much what me and some others have been saying (we even recorded it in a podcast, though we realize it's not revolutionary speculation).

Hopefully this calms people down and gets them to see things reasonably. The choices made actually make the most sense. Once you get over fanboying/fangirling and jumping to illogical conclusions and stuff you see it for what it is and realize that Sakurai really could have totally duped us and actually did the best decision he could as far as making a good game while pleasing as many people as possible goes.

*shruggles*

[Florete]

I'd definitely say RFoF is one of the more solid predictors from SF this time around, though. I'm starting to believe her guesses over my own and that is NOT an easy thing to make me do.

Damn, I'm not sure I deserve all these mentions. I mean, sure, I predicted Rosalina, Little Mac, Miis, Palutena, and sort of Lucina or Robin, but Greninja was a total surprise for me and I only considered Pac-Man likely after a lot of convincing...And I guess if that counts, as I was predicting him at that point, then my predictions haven't been so bad after all (I also predicted Ike would be back, if it means anything). I didn't technically predict Megaman, Villager, or Wii Fit Trainer, but I wasn't predicting back then at all.

Then again, there have also been predictions I made that didn't/won't come true, those being Skull Kid and Toad (and kind of a few others, but they were admittedly more wish-listy than real predictions and/or I changed my prediction before being proven wrong).

I guess if I'm going to do this, might as well go all the way, right? My remaining predictions:

Shulk - Would rep a new series with a strong following, highly demanded.

Ridley - Teased and demanded too much to not be added.

Dixie Kong and/or K. Rool - I honestly think Dixie is more likely, but with the Lucina/Robin combo, I could see both coming. For either, though, Donkey Kong is a pretty underrepresented series for how big it is, Dixie is highly relevant and a member of the forbidden seven, and K. Rool is the series' most recurring villain and highly demanded. What makes me skeptical of K. Rool, though, is that he hasn't been around in the series hardly at all since the original DKC trilogy.

Ghirahim or Impa - I'd much prefer Impa for being recurring and just cooler overall since Ghirahim is just a comically evil one-off villain, but I could see either happening since neither is the first you'd expect for a playable Zelda character despite probably being the most likely choices. I can't see both unless Impa is a Sheik clone/costume. I mean, I'd love to just say I don't think Ghirahim stands a chance, all things considered, but I'm pretty confident about a Zelda newcomer and there aren't a lot of choices available.

Maybe one or two others, but no idea who. Can't be many, though, or the roster would be kinda too huge (and Sakurai has already stated they're reaching the end).

Of course, Lucina means other potential clones or costume swaps like her. Not really sure what they would do there. Daisy for Peach? I can't see any Dark Link/Dark Pit/Dark Samus/Dry Bowser stuff and actually being called as such because...well, I dunno. I think if a character is going to be a costume swap like Lucina almost was, it should be someone that is both a completely different entity and could be worthy of their own roster slot, and Dark [character] doesn't seem to fit that imo. I could definitely see such happening as palette swaps, but not with different labels. (And I doubt Dark Pit will be playable in any capacity or his presence in the Palutena trailer would be really weird. I feel like that hints at a different role for him).

Cuts: Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Snake cut, possibly Wolf and/or Lucas, but probably not both, everyone else returns.

Keep note of this post so we can see how good of a predictor I really am.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Red Fox of Fire

[shadowofchaos]

Being able to share built stages online would be pretty cool.

Being able to actually use them online without hacking would be cool too.

...damn that's an old video.

*text*

The hell are you talking about Samias? Famitsu is the most unreliable source for Japanese games on the internet. |D

Edited July 17, 2014 by shadowofchaos

[Samias]

The hell are you talking about Samias? Famitsu is the most unreliable source for Japanese games on the internet. |D

Well, I wouldn't trust their game reviews any further than I can throw the magazine, considering they make even IGN look insightful, but the interviews are legit. But that has little in the way to do with Smash.

That said, today's update is back to filler. Nintencats confirmed! I guess Samurai needed a breather after we just got a ton of new info.

[NeonZ]

Initially, I had considered including Lucina as one of Marth's alternate costumes. After all, she has a close relationship with him in FE:A. In such cases, even if two characters' names and voices differ, as long as they function the same way, I assign them as alternate costumes. The Wii Fit Trainers, Villagers, and Robin are examples of this setup.

Thinking about it, Sakurai's example there is really silly. The names don't change there... which means that there's likely an example of that in the game that he hasn't revealed yet.

Edited July 17, 2014 by NeonZ

[BrightBow]

Thinking about it, Sakurai's example there is really silly. The names don't change there... which means that there's likely an example of that in the game that he hasn't revealed yet.

Maybe Dark Pit. Making him different from Pit besides the voice doesn't make much sense.

Edited July 17, 2014 by BrightBow

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

Maybe Dark Pit. Making him different from Pit besides the voice doesn't make much sense.

I wouldn't be very happy if Dark Pit had his own slot in the roster, I'd rather see him as a Pit alternative outfit. I know his main weapons differ from Pit, but he's still a RECOLOR...

I don't think KI deserves more than two characters, and if it really has to have three, I'd rather see that Magnus guy or MEDUSA!! to finally get a female villain.

[Jedi]

I'm actually a little sad that I didn't get the 'biggest Gematsu skeptic' title lol I was trying pretty hard for it

I'd definitely say RFoF is one of the more solid predictors from SF this time around, though. I'm starting to believe her guesses over my own and that is NOT an easy thing to make me do.

Regarding the theory of Snake being discluded, I think most people are assuming that he won't return due to his relative lack of involvement with Nintendo's recent history. True, he had a cool and unique moveset like a lot of other characters introduced in Brawl, but I think being third-party kind of exempts him from the return ticket. On the other hand, Sonic has been shown to be well-involved with the company nowadays.

But since it's me who's reasoning that, he'll probably be in anyway now.

So I don't get any credit from my old *game release for a reveal theory* which was true for a fair bit and the fact I said Toon Link, Sonic, Lucario and Ike would be back despite the majority of you saying otherwise? :P

Sure I may not have been so hot on newcomers this time around. But veterans I've been on fire!

[Comet]

Just noticed, Lucina's spot dodge looks different than Marth's. It seemed really, really fast too.

Am I the only one who thinks both Ness and Lucas will stay...?

Edited July 17, 2014 by Comet

[Jedi]

Just noticed, Lucina's spot dodge looks different than Marth's. It seemed really, really fast too.

Am I the only one who thinks both Ness and Lucas will stay...?

It does look different. More akin to a swordmaster dodge and less of a duck like Marth.

Also I do believe both the boys are staying and that Falco and Wolf are back.

[Jave]

I was the first one in this thread who legitimately made a case for Rosalina being in. I demand my credit.

[solrocknroll]

Sad that Sakurai cut Chrom early in development like he did, but if he couldn't make him unique, it was for the best.

[Jedi]

I wouldn't be very happy if Dark Pit had his own slot in the roster, I'd rather see him as a Pit alternative outfit. I know his main weapons differ from Pit, but he's still a RECOLOR...

I don't think KI deserves more than two characters, and if it really has to have three, I'd rather see that Magnus guy or MEDUSA!! to finally get a female villain.

I can understand what your saying but also know that Dark Pit is by far different then other "Dark" Nintendo characters. He actually has his own personality and motives more akin to an anti-hero

His weapons differ yes and you know what? What if he got Brawl Pits move set considering Pit has nearly changed every move? Not saying it would happen but I'd rule it in the realm of possibility at this point.

[Konnor97]

I'm just happy that that interview confirms that Robin's tomes eventually recharge just like the Levin Sword. It could have been then that they only respawn when Robin gets KO'd.

[Anacybele]

I'm glad Sakurai and I shared the same mindset on Chrom and Robin! I basically said Chrom wouldn't be in for exactly what he said and that Robin WOULD be in for exactly what he said. ...Wow, I know the guy better than I thought. :o

On another note, god damn it the new pic of the day. It confirms that that one taunt of Peach's that I hated so much is back. >_>

Edited July 17, 2014 by Anacybele