Choose You're Own Role Mafia - Game Over

[Prims]

Day 7.1 Votals

eclipse (3): Bluedoom, Shinori, Elieson

Paperblade (3): Kay, eclipse, Euklyd

Not Voting (3): BigBangMeteor, bearclaw13, Paperblade

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. You have 8 hours left in the day.

[Kay]

Kay actually, what are your reads on not-eclipse?

Pretty much the same as they were before. Shinori/Eli in particular are extremely equal right now. Don't confuse my explanations for meaning that scumreads aren't mostly PoE.

Town

Euklyd - Cop cleared and has been acting 100% townish.

Bearclaw - As scummy as he was originally, I don't think he would have had permission to bus anyone in that roleblock situation, plus cop clear, plus discontinuation of most scummy behavior.

BBM - General townishness and I still think the way he handled his initial claim is pretty big.

Marf - again, I think scum would be more reserved.

Eli - Apparently cop cleared, which I guess I missed yesterday? Although I generally am willing to trust Clipsey's results, I don't consider them reliable enough to compensate for his own behavior.

Shinori - is probably town or ITP if his role is what he says it is. It does rely on him being given items, and I don't recall right now how much it was tested. Laziness doesn't help but is also very Shinori so meh.

Paper - Too similar to Proto's role, kinda seems to be a bit too wary of people not going with the program. Also his recent self-meta argument is horrible and bad.

Eclipse - Targets were weird, play has been pretty neutral but a bit quiet.

Scum

I could use it now if you want, but I don't really see a reason to

Because you could be lying about details. Maybe there's a limit that you can only move X many votes throughout the game. It's just as well to do everything possible to prove that it works the way you say it does, and there's no reason not to.

BBM should clarify his Paper read, mostly he seems to be disagreeing with other people and his own thoughts would be nice.

Question, since I seem to be missing something and wanna make sure I get it right - In what ways has Clipsey's role been confirmed?

[euklyd]

@Voteswap -

Okay that works for me.

##unvote

for now.

tbh I'm not super interested in lynching Paper today, at least not unless Proto can make more compelling arguments.

Question, since I seem to be missing something and wanna make sure I get it right - In what ways has Clipsey's role been confirmed?

Voyeur, and only Voyeur, IIRC:

I saw Rocker being Copped on N3. I don't think she explicitly claimed exactly (at least not right away), but she implied heavily she was the Cop and then she didn't deny it when someone (Kirsche?) said it.

Has Eclipse given up? We have ~7 hours, and I won't be awake for most of them.

[BBM]

##Vote: Eclipse

I've been a bit paranoid of Paper at times in the game but overall his play has felt townie- there really is a marked difference in how Paperblade speaks when he's town as opposed to when he's scum, especially after a few day phases in. I don't think his choices have had much scum intent in them, especially the way he treated his Fabricator role. I remember near the end of D1 I was a bit suspicious of Boron for having a 2-part name to her role and the first thing Paper said as we entered the chat room on N1 was that he also had a 2-part rolename. And he's just been overall pretty involved consistently, and scum Paperblade takes every chance he can get to coast.

[BBM]

Elie isn't Cop cleared- he's Rolecop cleared + only possible source of no kill on N3 since Bearclaw hooked Kirsche, who was town, that night.

[Paperblade]

you forgot that I can't push fake cases on townies for shit which is why I always push my scumbuddies

[euklyd]

Wheeeee, Special Last-minute Edition Talk from the Dead!

Fact: Someone shot Kirsche, and it wasn't Kay. (I don't see how this clears Kay, unless we're <i>really</i> sure there's only one scum left)

Fact: There has only been one kill per night, except when SB and Boron died loverdeaths.

Fact: In order for Eclipse to be scum, then BBM would also need to be scum.

Opinion: That is very unlikely, because why would scum ever out themselves in such a position.

Elieson is confirmed both by rolecop and being the only way town has to prevent a lynch.

Bearclaw is likely town because of the whole Grass lynch, and Eclipse got an inno on him.

Proto thinks Marth is town because of the Objection dayvig.

This leaves BBM, Shinori, myself, and Paperblade.

Proto says that because of the ITP!Eclipse spec, he can't trust her clears anymore.

He still thinks I (Euklyd) am very townish.

Shinori is likely clear, because due to the absence of town-sided killing roles (and the fact that Marth's is armor-piercing), scum would have no use for BPVs. Oh and no 3rd-party killing role, unless there's something weird.

This leaves BBM and Paper, which is why he thinks it's very likely that one of those two is scum. He says Paper's Inventor ability is scummy, and thinks that BBM has been looking townish, and says Paperblade has done nothing townish the entire game (although Proto admits he's not very good at reading interactions).

Proto would rather lynch Paperblade today, and let Eclipse get more results, since he's positive she's not scum. Also says that scumhunting > ITPhunting, especially when there's no third-party killing role that we know of.

Proto's lynch priority seems to be Paperblade > Eclipse right now, and

Pedit: Proto decided he would rather lynch Eclipse.

Also also he says that no-kill nights don't mean anything because scum could just as easily have idled their kill to frame town.

That's all for this time! Tune in next time for more exiting logic-based scumhunting.

[euklyd]

Is there any reason for discussion to continue? Is there anything we want Eclipse to have a chance to say?

[Paperblade]

I mentioned the possibility on IRC that eclipse's role was meant to fool the Journalist/Voyeur (which the Sneak doesn't iirc) since it's obvious that all the mafia have additional abilities used for evil that they're not claiming (such as the lover-izer and w/e happened to Boron day 1). It'd kind of silly but honestly I'm not sure where else to go from here.

I saved bear and Shinori from lynches and got Strege lynched, that's more than liek every non-bear living player

[Paperblade]

eclipse has made two posts today and neither of them have been useful (explaining her logic in her inspect or giving reads etc.), somehow I don't think we'll get much out of her.

[Prims]

FWIW I won't be around at deadline. If hammer drops late at night I expect you guys to shut up until I wake up and postflip (will need to make the update myself).

[euklyd]

Also she just went offline.

I want to know how she decided on her targets.

Uh I can notify her with a quote I guess.

WARNING: My posts will take MUCH longer than usual, since I have to justify myself to Prims for every single blessed post I make during this day phase, for science.

First rule of third parties: No one is confirmed town unless I got a result that says they're town (since Grassy's dead). I got note of the motivation when night fell, AND chat was up when I wasn't around anyway. All I got from that was bearclaw/BBM being town (I sort-of crumbed the former, even if I screwed up my games, and should've made the latter damn clear last day phase).

My head hurts more than the hearts of all the nice guys I supposedly left because I like dating jerks. Things refuse to coagulate, and it's annoying the shit out of me. Later.

Eclipse, why did you decide to investigate Bear and BBM?

If there's no response I will hammer her at midnight my time, or in approximately 50 minutes, unless I'm given a good reason not to.

[euklyd]

Also I really want to talk to Elieson during the night (or, if Eclipse flips Town, then other Cop'd townies also work).

[Kay]

Proto and Euklyd, I don't think my role is that negative as town. I would say most of the time in a game you know some people who definitely shouldn't be targeting you, either for your own safety or because it doesn't fit with other things. It's a bit risky early on, but so are a lot of roles. Coordination isn't needed. In fact, I'd say a standard Town Roleblocker is worse for negative utility, because they'll be interfered with all the time instead of if they target one person. As for stealing items, at worst it moves items from one townie to another and disrupts some plans.

[Paperblade]

Stealing isn't negative utility for town, it's basically an info role in games with lots of items like this one, since if someone goes "Hey I have no items" and then you steal from them and get an item, WELL UHOH LOOK WHO'S SCUM

it also lets you move items to more useful people without letting the person with the item know who's getting it, which can be useful in games like this that allow for lots of behind the scenes conversations and plans

[euklyd]

That makes sense, yeah.

[euklyd]

Proto demands that we have more discussion before the hammer.

Namely, who do people think killed Kirsche?

He wants to hear from everyone, and I actually agree this would be a good thing to discuss.

[euklyd]

So, I'm probably not hammering very soon.

[euklyd]

Fact: it was not Kay (roleblocked).

Almost-certainly-fact: it was not Elieson (lol scumdoc).

Fact, fmpov: it was not me.

Fact: it was probably not Bearclaw (Kay, can you confirm that you were roleblocked?), assuming you can't use a factional kill and an active ability the same night. Even if you can his contributions to the Grass lynch are very town, and he's cop-cleared.

Almost-certainly-fact: it was not Eclipse.

That leaves BBM, Paperblade, Marth, and Shinori.

BBM was cop-cleared, I can't see Marth's dayvig coming from scum.

Shinori having a BPV and not an LPV means either that he's likely town and doesn't have as much use for an LPV, or that his role is restricted to only making BPVs and he's lying about LPVs.

That leaves Paper, whose role is sorta scummy (wheee rolespec), and I'm pretty sure self-meta is a bad thing. There's one other thing I'd rather only mention during IRC.

[euklyd]

I can see both Marth and Shinori reading this.

Please post your thoughts; it shouldn't take long.

[Shinori]

I could definitely see marth's day vig coming from scum.

Honestly his play reminds me of his scum meta but i know meta is bad whatever. And his whole talk about how his role is made to counter mine made me think about how it would effectively be the only way scum would kill me if I was given items.

[Paperblade]

hook me, inspect me, do whatever you want

I've got nothing to hide, buddy

[euklyd]

Fact: it was probably not Bearclaw (Kay, can you confirm that you were roleblocked?), assuming you can't use a factional kill and an active ability the same night. Even if you can his contributions to the Grass lynch are very town, and he's cop-cleared.

Proto points out that factional kills can usually be used alongside normal abilities (and I even knew this at one point, derp).

Neither of us think that Bearclaw is scum, though.

hook me, inspect me, do whatever you want

I've got nothing to hide, buddy

Who do you think performed the NightKill?

[Paperblade]

Why couldn't it have been eclipse?

[Paperblade]

also Objection's book confirmed you can act + kill, according to Kay