FE6 HM LTC V1 - Completed in 133 Turns

[ruadath]

9 Turns with everything thanks to Echidna, nothing special, except for Saul's 8 levels in the arena!

Dang, that's impressive. I've been contemplating doing something similar with Hardin/Caeda in Shadow Dragon (where you can revisit the Arena an infinite amount of times on the same turn), but I haven't had the patience/willpower to actually get it done. Props to you.

Have you figured/is it known how the arena uses RNs to generate the enemy class/stats? Or did you just trial and error?

[Yojinbo]

Roy being able to rescue promoted Shanna will never fail to amaze me.

[Lord Raven]

Roy being able to rescue promoted Shanna will never fail to amaze me.

lilina can rescue drop lalum

this can be useful depending on your strategy

[dondon151]

lilina can rescue drop lalum

ellen can rescue drop sophia

[ruadath]

ellen can rescue drop sophia

What does that have to do with anything?

[Carmine Sword]

Dondon rescued Sophia with Ellen in his FE6 0% Growths play-through in Chapter 14.

[Irysa]

Updated stats.

Have you figured/is it known how the arena uses RNs to generate the enemy class/stats? Or did you just trial and error?

http://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Generating_Arena_Enemies_%28GBA%29

There is this but frankly, it's not very helpful for determining what kind of strings you're looking for. For high EXP enemies I just manually burnt RNs one by one to find them, and for levelups I tried to find a string that fills desired growth rates (discount all sub 40s), and then start manually checking each enemy battle starting from about 60 through to 20 distance away. So yeah, mostly trial and error.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Irysa

[Yojinbo]

lilina can rescue drop lalum

Lalum doesn't sit on a pegasus.

[ruadath]

http://serenesforest.net/wiki/index.php/Generating_Arena_Enemies_%28GBA%29

There is this but frankly, it's not very helpful for determining what kind of strings you're looking for. For high EXP enemies I just manually burnt RNs one by one to find them, and for levelups I tried to find a string that fills desired growth rates (discount all sub 40s), and then start manually checking each enemy battle starting from about 60 through to 20 distance away. So yeah, mostly trial and error.

Step 6 in that algorithm makes it seem like it would be a real nightmare to try and optimize for high gold. Thankfully, it doesn't seem like the amount is enough that it would cause any problems for you.

[Irysa]

8 Turns.

A very simple and somewhat boring clear, due to the fact that Cath's third conversation must be triggered here, as I am going to be Warpskipping every other map she makes an appearance in. In total, it saves more turns to recruit her here than to spend extra time in Chapter 16.

Deployed Echidna to act as a Sleep Staff lure on Turns 2 and 3, since she has an existant res stat. Used the AI deployment order preference trick (thanks Gryz!) to get a Fighter to attack Alan on EP4. Basically, when it's a tie between who to attack, the AI picks the unit who is lower on the deployment list.

Lalum has a free turn to use an Angelic Robe on this map, which may or may not be a necessary tweak later on, depending on how my Chapter 12x 4 Turn and Chapter 14 3 Turn w/Guiding Ring strategies pan out. It will be a simple fix either way.

Lilina got to her unpromoted caps in Mag and Skill, meaning she doesn't need to do anything more till she promotes. Roy got his (likely) final levelup too. Saul needs 5 more staff uses to get to A Staves, and is easily on track to reach 22 Mag in time for the 14x 1 Turn. Sue promoted on Turn 1 instead of remaining unpromoted because between bosskills and Shin, Nomads should maintain an EXP lead, and I'd prefer her to get as much Speed as is possible rather than wasting EXP whilst Speedcapped.

The bosskill is just me milking EXP and WEXP, it can be simply done fairly reliably by Alan with the Wyrmslayer, with Lalum as backup incase he misses.

[spoiler=EP Stats]

Across Turns 1 to 3

Saul 36 HP

28 Hit 9 Dmg

31 Hit 10 Dmg

30 Hit 9 Dmg

9 Hit 11 Dmg

17 Hit 18 Dmg

Shamans cannot damage Saul

Marcus can just Vulnerary inbetween Turns if necessary to survive all the damage he could possibly take since he preforms no actions on most Turns. Lalum has to survive a 47 Disp Hit Longbow Archer who 2HKO's her over 2 turns, but Saul can Physic her on Turn 2 so it's not required either.

Sleep Staff - Echidna faces 36 Hit from the Priest.

[spoiler=Large RN Burns]

Turn 1

Shanna ArrowD5R3 Cycle(RUDLx235)

Turn 2

Sue Arrow L4U3 Cycle(RDULx61)

Sue Arrow L4U3 Cycle(RDULx105)

Turn 3

Zealot Arrow R5D2 Cycle (DLRUx335)

Turn 4

Marcus Arrow R5U3 Cycle(RDULx48)

Turn 5

Alan L6U2 Cycle(URLDx122)

Turn 6

Shanna Arrow L5D3 Cycle (DRLUx80)

Edited March 26, 2016 by Irysa

[Irysa]

Turns out that no ifs or buts, Lalum has to survive a lot of shit on EP in 12x for a 4 Turn with the White Gem (particularly problematic is a Myrm who doubles and OHKOs her at 75 Disp Hit). However her chance of survival can be dramatically improved if I have her use a Dracoshield and Angelic Robe in Chapter 12 (Myrm no longer ORKOs, even with 2 hits) ((I CANT MATH)), and she actually has 3 free turns in which to do this anyway (Turns 3, 4 and 6). The White Gem is worth more than the Robe and the Shield in terms of sell value, so rather than have Lalum have to dodge literally everything (whilst possible), I'm going to tweak Chapter 12 a bit to have her use the boosters instead. These should also get her into 2HKO status vs Wyverns and Mercs in Chapter 14, and I think I'm probably going to have to have her dodge some stuff in order to get Lilina's Guiding Ring without blowing Warp Staff uses (as Raven did) so yeah, I think this is a good long term investment.

I sincerely doubt anyone cares to see/watch this adjustment, so I will outline it instead; on Turn 3, Shanna Equips an Iron Sword and moves right 3 tiles after giving Roy to Alan, which keeps her within 5 Range of Lalum for Turn 4. Lalum moves up 2 and right 3 and uses an Angelic Robe instead of Dancing Shanna. On Turn 4, Lalum moves right 5 and uses a Dracoshield, then is rescued by Shanna. Nothing at all changes in terms of the RN string or enemy behaviour, so I am just going to hack these changes in and discard one of my Robes and the Shield, along with 20 EXP from Lalum.

I do hope that the second robe turns out to be unecessary for the Chapter 14 strategy, but if it does, as I alluded to earlier, there is a third possible avenue on Turn 6. In that case, Alan either ORKOs the boss by himself with the Wyrmslayer, or Shanna doubles it with the Silver Lance to let Alan finish, whilst Sue loses out on some Bow EXP and just kills the Priest instead (or Echidna dodges the Priest on EP I guess, but then Saul probably has to Physic again since lack of a Mend Target on Turn 8? Could rig Echidna to get hit by the enemy Shaman on Turn 2 I guess)

EDIT: Hmm, actually it may be possible for Alan to kill that Myrm, but I'd sacrifice an Elixir. I think it's a good investment either way, as it prevents her being oneshot by other enemies too (although those are at more managable hitrates)

EDIT2: Lol figured out a way to not deal with the Myrm at all.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Irysa

[ruadath]

Turns out that no ifs or buts, Lalum has to survive a lot of shit on EP in 12x for a 4 Turn with the White Gem (particularly problematic is a Myrm who doubles and OHKOs her at 75 Disp Hit). However her chance of survival can be dramatically improved if I have her use a Dracoshield and Angelic Robe in Chapter 12 (Myrm no longer ORKOs, even with 2 hits), and she actually has 3 free turns in which to do this anyway (Turns 3, 4 and 6). The White Gem is worth more than the Robe and the Shield in terms of sell value, so rather than have Lalum have to dodge literally everything (whilst possible), I'm going to tweak Chapter 12 a bit to have her use the boosters instead. These should also get her into 2HKO status vs Wyverns and Mercs in Chapter 14, and I think I'm probably going to have to have her dodge some stuff in order to get Lilina's Guiding Ring without blowing Warp Staff uses (as Raven did) so yeah, I think this is a good long term investment.

Something I'm actually a little bit confused about and would appreciate clarification on: since in FE6 you have to use stat boosters on the map, this means there is some upper limit on the number of boosters (or really, just Boots) that you can make use of. What is this limit, and how would the Boots be distributed? Also, by how much do you exceed the gold value required for you meet this target?

[Irysa]

The answer is "it depends". I'm projecting a 3 Turn of 21, 2 Turn of 21x, 3 Turn of 22, 2 Turn of 23, and a 7 Turn of 24.

Shanna is probably visiting the Secret Shop on Turn 2 in 21. Discounting Boots uses in 24, that leaves 9 Turns of potential Boots use for units, but most units do have to preform some kind of action on most Turns in those maps, but there is actually a reasonably high amount of flexability in how to approach Boots allocation. I do not really have specific strategies (Well, there are some specific things that must happen, but there's still flexability) for these maps yet, nor do I have an exact knowledge of how much money I can actually have at Chapter 21 (there are some things I'm unsure of such as Arena visits in 17S, being able to avoid buying a second Bolting via getting one in 16, how many weapon uses/what I can afford to sell at that point, etc)

Between 21x and 22 though, I should be able to get numerous units to 14/15 mov. The more the merrier frankly.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Irysa

[Yojinbo]

How much of an issue is money anyway? Do you need to buy anything other than boots?

[Irysa]

I need to buy at least one Bolting, maybe two for Lilina. Perhaps a Purge for Saul (if he reaches A Light). Other than that it's all Boots.

The thing is that, as this is still actually something of a test run, I'm aiming to just try to have as much money as possible at that point. I'd rather end up in a situation where I have more than enough money as opposed to being short a bit. Knowing how much I can expect to have at a certain point is important, and it's pretty hard to accurately evaluate without knowing how much all my weapons are going to sell for.

[ruadath]

Well, evidently, if you're willing to use up both a Dracoshield and Seraph Robe, that suggests that you feel pretty confident about having more money than you need, since otherwise you would probably just go for the additional RNG abuse... right?

Also, in light of your new edits, does that mean you are still going to do this?

[Irysa]

4 Turns

I couldn't be bothered to rerecord this after I realised I'd recorded VBA with a lower volume than usual. Not like it matters.

Anyway, 4 turning in practice is fairly simple but 4 turning with the 2 Elixirs, both Gems and with a minimised chance of death for Lalum is somewhat more complicated. I did manage to cut down on the dodges she needs, so I didn't end up using any Robes/Shields after all.

[spoiler=EP Stats]
Turn 1
Lalum 15 Hp
53 Hit 17 Dmg

Turn 2
Lalum 15 Hp
34 Hit 20 Dmg

Shanna 37 Hp
38 Hit 16 Dmg
38 Hit 17 Dmg

Turn 3
Lalum 15 Hp
58 Hit 26 Dmg

[spoiler=Large RN Burns]
Turn 3
Shanna Arrow D2L6 Cycle (DRLUx150)
Shanna Arrow D2L6 Cycle (DRLUx109)

Edited March 30, 2016 by Irysa

[ruadath]

Anyway, 4 turning in practice is fairly simple but 4 turning with the 2 Elixirs, both Gems and with a minimised chance of death for Lalum is somewhat more complicated. I did manage to cut down on the dodges she needs, so I didn't end up using any Robes/Shields after all.

Awesome, great job! Good to see that you didn't end up having to use any of the valuable stat boosters but still picked up the gems. I noticed that you can Give and Rescue on the same turn in this game; is that normal? I don't remember being able to do this in FE7, but it's been a while.

I'm also wondering if you are or have an easy way of keeping track of your total EXP gain and/or your "Funds" value for this playthrough? This data might be valuable to Gradivus when he gets backed to his ranked run

[Lord Raven]

It's pretty simple; you just figure out when they promote, add that EXP, then its 100 x the amount of levels gained (so current level minus base level).

[ruadath]

Sure, I guess, it's really Funds that's harder to keep track of (especially IIRC the Funds formula has some weird formula in this game compared to FE7)

[Yojinbo]

I personally think that the +7HP/+2Def boosts for Lalum are more likely to turn out useful at some point than the 8K Gold you're saving. Probably not a big deal either way but I'd assume that you're going to spend significantly less money than dondon did in his 0% growths run and the only chapter you're going to miss out on a lot is Ch.16. You should be fine either way.

[Lord Raven]

Sure, I guess, it's really Funds that's harder to keep track of (especially IIRC the Funds formula has some weird formula in this game compared to FE7)

Funds is also stupidly easy to A rank.

[ruadath]

Oh right, because of the glitch or whatever if you have Roy kill Idoun in this game, right?

[Lord Raven]

Yeah, I think the main issue is EXP rank. Funds is easy, Tactics is stupidly easy.

[Paused]

To put into perspective, at this level of play anyway, how free the Funds rank is; DD151 in his 0% growths run prior to his Boots and Stat-upers bulk buying shopping trip had 164035g and the required needed for an A rank, assuming true end, is 84000g. So just shy of having double the requirement.

So as far as I can see, Funds in Ranked play just limits your boots number. And that might not even be much of a issue as in the extra turns spent fighting needed to give you the 50100exp you need, could also provide extra turns selling things off with the silver card that strict LTC does not allow. (Which as in FE6 items are only worth half their worth when calculating Rank unlike FE7 is somewhat more important anyway)