eclipse Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Doesn't invalidate my point at all. No one's forcing you to come here and post, especially since you're not going to get the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) I think you're being a bit unreasonable in telling people to just "not be dissapointed" when talking about a crossover encompassing two very old and highly respected franchises. I was literally ready to buy a Wii U right there and then when SMTxFE was first announced. Two franchises I have a huge amount of passion for combined? They're using representative art from across the ages in the series that indicates it's NOT just populist material? Sign me up! I won't deny I overhyped myself but the implications given off by that first sneak peak and the name choice of the project made me imagine something of a love letter towards avid fans of these two series, instead it's just going to be a generic otaku pandering RPG for the contemporary masses. There's nothing "wrong" with that per se but one can't help but laud what could have been. Edited April 2, 2015 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feplus Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Of course no one is forcing me. I choose to come here and post because I dislike the direction of the game and want to talk about why. That's perfectly within the rules and scope of the subforum and I don't understand why a moderator would discourage negative opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 This picture perfectly encapsulates all of the reactions to this uh...surprise announcement. It's kind of amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JairusCBeats Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Fuck. My wallet... Nintendo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Third, even if this new Persona ft. Awakening project was a shock to expectations, the real trouble is that I have a hard time distinguishing between SMTxFE and something like Hyperdimension Neptunia: female leads become sexualized idols, girls strip to their undergarments, everyone's in high school, and all this is set to an ultra-generic, cringe-inducing anime theme song. Forgive some of us for being deeply skeptical at this new direction. My problem with the trailer in a nutshell. I'm way more familiar with Persona than mainline SMT, and didn't have any expectations for this. Just judging that trailer in a vacuum, the massive otaku fanservice overdose just makes this not the kind of game I'd want to spend money on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_Cero Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I'm glad this is something different and surprising and not some slapped together crossover trying despeately to please both fan bases like most cross overs tend to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I think you're being a bit unreasonable in telling people to just "not be dissapointed" when talking about a crossover encompassing two very old and highly respected franchises. I was literally ready to buy a Wii U right there and then when SMTxFE was first announced. Two franchises I have a huge amount of passion for combined? They're using representative art from across the ages in the series that indicates it's NOT just populist material? Sign me up! I won't deny I overhyped myself but the implications given off by that first sneak peak and the name choice of the project made me imagine something of a love letter towards avid fans of these two series, instead it's just going to be a generic otaku pandering RPG for the contemporary masses. There's nothing "wrong" with that per se but one can't help but laud what could have been. You're free to be disappointed. But I think you're overdoing it, by a lot. I'd expect that kind of reaction if you told me that your psychotic ex-wife got full custody of your kids (as an example). I think it's a matter of priorities - I was disappointed that FE12 wasn't officially localized, but my reaction was absolutely nothing like what I see in this thread. Of course no one is forcing me. I choose to come here and post because I dislike the direction of the game and want to talk about why. That's perfectly within the rules and scope of the subforum and I don't understand why a moderator would discourage negative opinions. You're treading on very thin ice - pointing to the CoC and saying "but I'm not violating the words directly" will come back to haunt you. The spirit of the CoC is "don't be a dick". It's one thing to be disappointed in a game, but to come in to a subforum to ONLY air disappointment tells me that there's bigger issues afoot - words and actions are a reflection of the heart, after all. Like Awakening, I won't complain too much if there's a topic about why the game is awful, despite being shown a two-minute preview. However, any and all complaints MUST be done respectfully - lumping everyone who likes this game as a waifu-loving loser, for example, will warrant a warning. and Refa is banned for being more awesome than me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) You're free to be disappointed. But I think you're overdoing it, by a lot. I'd expect that kind of reaction if you told me that your psychotic ex-wife got full custody of your kids (as an example). I think it's a matter of priorities - I was disappointed that FE12 wasn't officially localized, but my reaction was absolutely nothing like what I see in this thread. Clearly you don't care about FE and SMT as much as I do then. *shrug* I don't think I've been disrespectful in this thread though. Edited April 2, 2015 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feplus Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Being critical and being rude are distinct. If a person wishes to respectfully air grievances and argue critically against a game, that's within the purview of the subforum's rules. I do not have to make complimentary concessions for a game I don't like. We've discussed this before. If you take issue with any of my posts in particular, feel free to let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Clearly you don't care about FE and SMT as much as I do then. *shrug* I don't think I've been disrespectful in this thread though. No, you haven't. However, I think you could tone it down. There are things that I do care greatly about, and I'll be really upset once they're gone. . .but video games, especially ones that haven't been released, aren't one of them. In the grand scheme of things, this is really minor (and if it's major, consider yourself super-lucky, and send some of your good luck my way). I trust that you're objective enough to point out flaws, while acknowledging the good - however, I don't think every other poster on SF (present and future) will do that. Hence, the warning. EDIT: Being critical and being rude are distinct. If a person wishes to respectfully air grievances and argue critically against a game, that's within the purview of the subforum's rules. I do not have to make complimentary concessions for a game I don't like. We've discussed this before. If you take issue with any of my posts in particular, feel free to let me know. This was one of your earlier posts. How you describe the game is extremely rude, but I let it slide because that looked like your initial reaction. You continue to post in the subforum of the game that is "waifu-pandering, stereotypical-jRPG garbage", in your own words, and I can't wrap my head around why you'd even bother. You can either spend time demeaning what you don't like, or pursing things that you do - why bother with the former? Unfortunately, "discussion" is a poor way to put it - the more I see of your actions, the more I think that my initial opinion of you was right. I don't want to be right. Edited April 2, 2015 by eclipse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 There are things that I do care greatly about, and I'll be really upset once they're gone. . .but video games, especially ones that haven't been released, aren't one of them. In the grand scheme of things, this is really minor (and if it's major, consider yourself super-lucky, and send some of your good luck my way) Oh come on, now you're just being unfair. You're belittling people on a site dedicated to a videogame franchise for caring a lot about videogames! I'm not ashamed to admit that they have been (and still are) an important part of my life, nor am I ashamed to admit that I put a lot of time, value, and effort into playing, learning, and writing about them. If you don't empathise, fine, but excuse me for not attempting to mock the severity of someone else's concerns about something I may find comparably trivial, which I would say is a lot ruder than what I or feplus have posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feplus Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I'd like to move this conversation to private messages to avoid thread-cluttering, but since you prefer to keep things public: Being harsh is fine. The problem with the linked post is that my phrasing was crude, not that it was mean. It's not okay to be harsh towards other users, but it's fine to be harsh towards games. I "bother" to spend time on this subject because it interests me and I like talking about it. I want people to argue against my view. That sort of exchange is fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Oh come on, now you're just being unfair. You're belittling people on a site dedicated to a videogame franchise for caring a lot about videogames! I'm not ashamed to admit that they have been (and still are) an important part of my life, nor am I ashamed to admit that I put a lot of time, value, and effort into playing, learning, and writing about them. If you don't empathise, fine, but excuse me for not attempting to mock the severity of someone else's concerns about something I may find comparably trivial, which I would say is a lot ruder than what I or feplus have posted. No, I'm not. I've lived long enough to know that gaming is a hobby. This tells me that video games are a central portion of your life - and that your life is placid enough that it can be such (hence, why you're lucky). I don't think comparing notes on who spends more time/money/effort on a video game will come to anything, as I've got a gigantic head start on most of the forum. There's people in here that have said "this ain't for me", and have left it at that - I have no issues with them. You know how you feel about the perceived "belittling"? How do you think those who think that this game's gonna rock feel, especially if they're equally passionate about games as you are? There's a trend that's cropped up recently, and I don't like it at all. EDIT (seriously, you have a future as a ninja): I'd like to move this conversation to private messages to avoid thread-cluttering, but since you prefer to keep things public: Being harsh is fine. The problem with the linked post is that my phrasing was crude, not that it was mean. It's not okay to be harsh towards other users, but it's fine to be harsh towards games. I "bother" to spend time on this subject because it interests me and I like talking about it. I want people to argue against my view. That sort of exchange is fun. That's. . .worrying, but for completely different reasons. If you want to argue about things, for the hell of arguing, the mafia subforum is thataway - there should be a new game starting soon enough. Being harsh is an extremely fine line, as implication is also important, and how things are interpreted by others is out of your hands. Even if you find arguing interesting, how do you think you look from an outsider's point of view, given what you've posted? Edited April 2, 2015 by eclipse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irysa Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) No, I'm not. I've lived long enough to know that gaming is a hobby. This tells me that video games are a central portion of your life - and that your life is placid enough that it can be such (hence, why you're lucky). This is a pretty large assumption you're making (and whilst I wouldn't deny I'm definitely lucky in some aspects, I'd say I'm incredibly unlucky in others). It is actually very unfair to assume that just because I'm passionate about a particular field that I'm neccessarily "lucky" or "priviledged". You don't have to think very hard to imagine scenarios where things someone else may view as trivial or purely leisure are what help keep someone going through harrowing times. If we're gearing up to compare sob stories in a race to the bottom about who has the more pathetic existance before inevitably someone invokes the Godwin's law of such exchanges that "yeah well at least you're not that kid with no legs in Syria" or something to that effect, then forgive me for not really believing that somehow expressing discontent in public discourse somehow diminishes the very real thankfulness that I have that I'm not that kid. You know how you feel about the perceived "belittling"? How do you think those who think that this game's gonna rock feel, especially if they're equally passionate about games as you are? There's a trend that's cropped up recently, and I don't like it at all. There is a marked difference between purposely trying to belittle someone's values themselves and belittling something they value. Also I support your right to insult me, because I'm all for freedom of expression. I was simply pointing out the somewhat hypocritical stance you're taking right now. Edited April 2, 2015 by Irysa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feplus Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 It's not arguing for argument's sake. It's arguing as an exercise in critical thinking and as a way to better understand an artistic product (games undoubtedly qualify). No one is forced to agree with my posts, take my posts personally, or even read my posts. I've seen plenty of hostility towards my favorite Fire Emblem games, and that's fine; either I respectfully engage or I move on. There is no "implication" here. If people incorrectly assume being critical of SMTxFE entails being critical of people who like SMTxFE, the fault is theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saifors Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Guys it's totally FE there's a girl who slightly resembles Tiki for a split second. So we just not going to talk about the fact that at 0:38 there's a girl in nothing but her underwear? No? I love how Bill Trinen said it's SMT with Fire Emblem characters, that Marth and Sigurd Fusion cosplay? Yup, totally Fire Emblem. No, seriously can someone explain to me where the Fire Emblem here is, or the SMT? this looks more like a new IP than a crossover of these 2 franchises. Edited April 2, 2015 by saifors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonlitSonata Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Guys, you should stop arguing and just accept a difference of opinions. If you can't why not take it to PMs where it's not like you're airing dirty laundry? So what if it doesn't meet your expectations, it's not like we were told the game was going to be set in a medieval European area and then took it to Mars or something. All we were told was that it was a crossover between SMT and FE, with no details as to what the game would be like, plot, gameplay, or otherwise. Why not just be glad there's any news after two years of nothingness? ;-; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miacis Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I'm pretty sure nobody here expressed the idea that there is no possible difference in opinions. But if we have to discuss while making sure not to try and have our words impact the reader, and possibly make them reconsider how they see things, might as well not post at all. That's the whole point of exchanging: you can't spell exchanging opinions without changing opinions. Why not just be glad there's any news after two years of nothingness? ;-; Because I'd rather see that talent and money used for something more constructive. And because it pretty much extinguishes the hope that one day, a SMTxFE game is made that doesn't look like... this Persona spin-off. (Really, why would anyone be glad of receiving news unless they considered those news to be good?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masked And Dangerous Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I did a breakdown of the entire trailer over on imgur last night. It only took two hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiddon Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) I did a breakdown of the entire trailer over on imgur last night. It only took two hours. Very interesting; there are a lot of little details in the background and character design with references to both series. Although it's strange how the ONLY character that is from FE is Tiki while everyone else seem to be costumes. The idea that idol, music, and pop culture are going to be a running theme has an interesting bent. Persona 4 touched on this somewhat with Rise's character feeling suffocated by her needs to be an idol. We'll no doubt get other analyses in the coming months and hopefully we get a clearer picture with new info. Also, I think Pegasus Girl is saying "I won't let you escape!" (zettai ni nigasanai!) Edited April 2, 2015 by Aiddon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuffPuff Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Yep. At 22:30 it shows by the topic creator that vid thumbnail could be Tana from FE8. At least Fire Emblem is getting the love that it deserves now. It shouldn't die. Edited April 2, 2015 by PuffPuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarusu Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I first tough it was just a random game..then i tough it was somekind of idolmaster persona,then he said it was smt x persona and it all went nuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureshadowXIII Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Guys it's totally FE there's a girl who slightly resemble Tiki for a split second. So we just not going to talk about the fact that at 0:38 there's a girl in nothing but her underwear? No? I love how Bill Trinen said it's SMT with Fire Emblem characters, that mart and Sigurd Fusion cosplay? yup, totally Fire Emblem. No, seriously can someone explain to me where the Fire Emblem here is, or the SMT? this looks more like a new IP than a crossover of these 2 franchises. Why do I keep seeing these after there being several posts actually speculating on characters that actually do look alot alike(aside from the damned shoujo style, that really annoys me)? Are people not reading the full forum or just ignoring anything that isn't negative? I'm honestly kinda guessing that they gave a larger chunk to Atlus and let them do more of the programming and art due to their still somewhat poor state, hence why it's now an SMT spinoff. They probably went Persona because, as much as most of us hate to say it, Persona has become more popular than the series it spawned from MODEDIT: yo don't doublepost Edited April 2, 2015 by Integrity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckc22 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I always kinda wondered why hardcore SMT fans hate Persona and vice versa. Everything today has to have hipster cred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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