Why is Donnel so hated?

[Pokedude729]

He has amazing stats (even when he's just a merc/fighter, he is on par with promoted classes), he passes down galeforce, and is easily one of rhe best first gen, non Robin units.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

post game is where he hurts.

lower caps on his stats, passes down these caps to his kids even if he can get them galeforce.

also try to raise him on lunatic, go ahead, i'll be right here.

[Cyas]

Anybody in FE13 can become amazing if given enough resources. The only difference between Donnel and other units is that he has much worse base stats and needs an exceedingly high amount of babying to get anywhere. He also has Weapon Rank issues for a long time.

(Indirect) GF passdown isn't really worth it in light of all these disadvantages. With regards to postgame, I already have enough GF to be able to one-turn any Apotheosis wave. Even more GF is just icing on the cake and that is why I don't consider him to be an outstanding father either.

[fengaridotdll]

He's not worth it in the end because his caps are ass, and it's too hard to even train him up with EXPonential Growth

Edited June 19, 2016 by Braixen

[Shadow Mir]

*sees that the OP just joined* Why am I not surprised?

Anyways, Donnel needs 9 levels' worth of babying and a precious Second Seal to actually be able to contribute, struggles with weapon rank issues for a long time, and the payoff only really manages to be worth it on easier difficulties.

[Jedi]

He just takes so many more resources then like almost the entire cast to get going, like sure he can be fun to utilize, but its partly backlash because when FE13 first came out people hyped him up thanks to certain things and then the actual really good players got to him and were like... Eh?

If you want to use him go ahead, nothing stopping you, the hatred more comes from when people argued he was an amazing unit who was better than other people.

[Shin]

also try to raise him on lunatic, go ahead, i'll be right here.

It takes a little thinking, but it's more than possible. The main issue with Donnel is that for the same amount of effort it takes to make him passable, you could easily dump those resources into someone who's already passable and make them even better. He's really funny, but you'd probably get the same results by investing in Vaike or Gregor.

[Jedi]

It takes a little thinking, but it's more than possible. The main issue with Donnel is that for the same amount of effort it takes to make him passable, you could easily dump those resources into someone who's already passable and make them even better. He's really funny, but you'd probably get the same results by investing in Vaike or Gregor.

Didn't you manage to use both Ricken and Donnel on Lunatic? Haha, I seem to recall you saying that.

[Shin]

Didn't you manage to use both Ricken and Donnel on Lunatic? Haha, I seem to recall you saying that.

That's true! No grind too! Donnel needs a lot of feeding early on, I recall his first useful chapter being the boat one where he'd just been second sealed. He needs to steal a lot of kills and his awful strength means you're dumping a massive forge onto him (mind you which is likely to be a Bronze Lance) in order for him to deal enough damage to do it.

[Jedi]

You are far more patient then I could ever hope to be.

[TheSilentChloey]

Donnel is alright, but as everyone has pointed out he does take resources and has lower caps than other units. The only unit that can take Donnel as a father from what I've heard is Kjelle, but even then she does have better fathers (I think).

[Roflolxp54]

It's a case of resource management and prioritization, especially in Lunatic(+) difficulty. There are better units that can use the experience than Donnel can. Even Sumia, who joins in Ch. 3 as a very fragile lv. 1 Pegasus Knight is a much better investment than Donnel is.

[Augestein]

I'm not fond of units that start out this outlandishly bad when you have other units that fill the entire roster. At least with Mozu for instance, Mozu starts with a not completely full roster, so even if she's kind of worse, she can sort of help and by the time you get a completely full roster, she's either better or only slightly below average. Using Donnel requires me to use a character that's not much better .

Donnell basically starts out by having his chapter say "baby him or forget him," and the amount of awesome he displays for doing it is less than... Like everyone in the game.

[Pokedude729]

Everyone keeps bringing up caps.

Caps don't really matter unless you're grinding for Apotheosis/other DLC, so in the main game, growths are much more important.

[Inference]

FE13 brought a lot of newer players to the series who stuck to the easier difficulties, where Donnel can actually get up to par in a reasonable amount of time. Still, he does have the worst startup in the entire game and is a resource sink regardless of circumstance. The players who adore him are probably the same one who don't quite realize just how easily the game devolves into an Avatar solo.

@Pokedude: You're right about caps being irrelevant in the main game, but the rest of the points made in the thread are valid. Caps or no, Donnel is a waste of time.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Inference

[Water Mage]

Everyone keeps bringing up caps.

Caps don't really matter unless you're grinding for Apotheosis/other DLC, so in the main game, growths are much more important.

Caps are important, but are not the only thing.

It's more like, why waste your time training Donnel, when you can other units that can do the same thing as him, with much less effort?

Also, why bother training Donnel, when he's gonna be replaced by child units?

The growth of the child units completely outclass Donnel's, even with Aptitude.

[Pokedude729]

Caps are important, but are not the only thing.

It's more like, why waste your time training Donnel, when you can other units that can do the same thing as him, with much less effort?

Also, why bother training Donnel, when he's gonna be replaced by child units?

The growth of the child units completely outclass Donnel's, even with Aptitude.

1. To completely beef up his kid

2 For the same reason he's called the 'Magikarp Power' the idea of turning something useless into something amazing

3. He still holds up, even with the kids (heck, he helped immensely against Grima)

[Gradivus.]

Caps aren't important in the main game. They're so generous that capped out units will wreck everything, regardless of their modifiers being -2 or +2. Any shortages on stats can be covered well enough by Tonics, Pairup bonuses and Rallies that there is no real difference between two units purely because of different caps. It's comparing overkill to slightly more overkill.

Donnel is considered bad for the reasons already mentioned (aside from the weird cap argument), anyone can become great in this game with the right training, Donnel's just takes longer and starts paying off later.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Gradivus.

[shadowofchaos]

Is this another "trainee becomes god if resources are put into them" thread again? I swear, it's like when people assumed Seth was crap because he was a prepromote.

In a no grind Lunatic context, Donny's contributions being good is because you feed them resources that if fed to someone else, would have them contribute far more than he would earlier on.

The problem with people liking what they see in trainee units is that they don't ever keep track of what they had to use to get them to that level.

[kantoorfarina]

Donnel is a waste of resources and effort. He takes so much effort early on and you would be just as strong overall later if you used all the resources you used training him on other units that don't take as much effort as Donnel does. He's not even very good on Hard, either.

I'm guessing you don't think Frederick is a very good unit? Well, consider this: Feeding Donnel all the kills early on is going to have the same effect on your team later as using Frederick.

[Water Mage]

1. To completely beef up his kid

2 For the same reason he's called the 'Magikarp Power' the idea of turning something useless into something amazing

3. He still holds up, even with the kids (heck, he helped immensely against Grima)

1. Actually, he actually screws up most of the kids, the Galeforce he gives are not worth it.

2. Yes, but there are units that can be as strong as him, with much less effort.

3. What mode were you playing? Donnel can't even keep up with the first gen units in harder difficulties.

[Pokedude729]

1. Actually, he actually screws up most of the kids, the Galeforce he gives are not worth it.

2. Yes, but there are units that can be as strong as him, with much less effort.

3. What mode were you playing? Donnel can't even keep up with the first gen units in harder difficulties.

1. My Owain and Kjelle would like a word with you.

2. Alright, I yield on this one. (But it's still an good feeling to get him that far.)

3. I've played both Normal and Hard (both Classic), and in both, Donny was amazing throughout the whole game.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

It takes a little thinking, but it's more than possible. The main issue with Donnel is that for the same amount of effort it takes to make him passable, you could easily dump those resources into someone who's already passable and make them even better. He's really funny, but you'd probably get the same results by investing in Vaike or Gregor.

yeah i know its possible, but typically the same people that insist he's worth all those resources are the ones that can't play on lunatic, which is what i was going with in my post.

[Water Mage]

1. My Owain and Kjelle would like a word with you.

Kjelle is the only kid Donnel doesn't screw up, as it was said earlier on this thread, and it's kinda hard to screw her actually.

Owain is better of as a mage, than a physical fighter. Remember that Lissa gives a negative Str modifier but a positive Mag one.

So Donnel as a parent is not really a good idea.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Water Mage

[Gradivus.]

Kjelle is the only kid Donnel doesn't screw up, as it was said earlier on this thread, and it's kinda hard to screw her actually.

Owain is better of as a mage, than a physical fighter. Remember that Lissa gives a negative Str modifier but a positive Mag one.

So Donnel as a parent is not really a good idea.

Caps aren't important in the main game. They're so generous that capped out units will wreck everything, regardless of their modifiers being -2 or +2. Any shortages on stats can be covered well enough by Tonics, Pairup bonuses and Rallies that there is no real difference between two units purely because of different caps. It's comparing overkill to slightly more overkill.

As said, arguing about 1-3 point differences in modifiers is pure nitpicking outside of postgame contexts.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Gradivus.