Why is Donnel so hated?

[Nym]

But they do, and regardless of that Chrom and Ike don't take time consuming about of babysitting to get to a desirable stage. You're essentially going to have to abuse the hell out of pair up and forge the hell out of Bronze Lances if you have any chance in hell of getting him to level 15, at that point he can start going off on his own. One of the worst problems with Donnel is his E rank lance start out, then once he reclasses he's going to lose lances entirely.

Plus Ike is just fucking broken, especially in late game RD. It's hard for me to see Donnel giving Ike a run for his money, Chrom I could maybe see. When Ike showed up in RD I thought he wasn't going to be OP as shit like he wasn't in PoR (older FE games have conditioned me to using really ass Lords, save for maybe FE7 Hector and FE8 Ephraim, then there's Sigurd) but by the time he was well into the Vanguard class he had stats up in the 30's and was one of the best units I had with minimal effort put into him. Aether is just bullshit in FE9/FE10.

As I said, remove the second seals and give Donnel a promotion with lances and Chrom would be downgrated to shitty lord who got outclass by a villager. Ike could also have a little bit of competition.

Just look at Lilina vs Micaiah, a good example of how (I think since I never played FE10 myself) a weak character could end up being better than an actual lord.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Nym

[shadowofchaos]

That's not addressing all of Donny's weaknesses.

The fact that you have to baby him in his join chapter is as horrendous as Kazahana and Tsubaki are in their join chapters in Revelations.

I don't recall having Chrom have to do that outside of Lunatic+.

Edited June 23, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Nym]

That's not addressing all of Donny's weaknesses.

The fact that you have to baby him in his join chapter is as horrendous as Kazahana and Tsubaki are in their join chapters in Revelations.

I don't recall having Chrom have to do that outside of Lunatic+.

Yeah well, I suppose the developers didn't thought about that, they probably throw a babysit unit just because Awakening was suppose to be the last FE.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Nym

[Shadow Mir]

I generally find Donnel's skill set better than Panne's. I find access to Armsthrift invaluable, since I can use Forged Uber weapons without having to worry about replacing them, especially with Donnel's high luck stat. I also like having Sol access, even though many min-maxers find it suboptimal.

Speaking of skills, I see that as another problem Donnel has - thanks to his two reclasses sharing a promotion, he essentially has 1 and 1/2 class trees' worth of skills.

[17thSeraph]

Am I the only one who uses two Rally-Bots from his Logbook to make my live with Donny easier without grinding him every single time?

[shadowofchaos]

Am I the only one who uses two Rally-Bots from his Logbook to make my live with Donny easier without grinding him every single time?

The fact that you have to do that doesn't make a better case for him in this thread.

[Rezzy]

I don't think Donnel is top tier, but I think in Awakening, the power gap between him and any other non Gale Force Unit isn't as big as people make it out to be. I look at Donnel as the polynomial power grower. He's weak early, and overshadowed late, but in the middle, he's great.

He's sub optimal in a no-grind and 200 hr grind environment, but with a moderate investment, he shoots up fast. He just has a lower ceiling than the other units. Not everyone puts in the time to cap everybody, and once you get Donnel out of Villager, he's pretty good for mid-late game until he starts hitting those caps, which he will, faster than anyone else.

[Shadow Mir]

Just look at Lilina vs Micaiah, a good example of how (I think since I never played FE10 myself) a weak character could end up being better than an actual lord.

Funny you say that, because Micaiah is basically Lilina stat wise (Read: not very fast, but she hits like a Mack truck)..

I don't think Donnel is top tier, but I think in Awakening, the power gap between him and any other non Gale Force Unit isn't as big as people make it out to be. I look at Donnel as the polynomial power grower. He's weak early, and overshadowed late, but in the middle, he's great.

He's sub optimal in a no-grind and 200 hr grind environment, but with a moderate investment, he shoots up fast. He just has a lower ceiling than the other units. Not everyone puts in the time to cap everybody, and once you get Donnel out of Villager, he's pretty good for mid-late game until he starts hitting those caps, which he will, faster than anyone else.

The issue is, would it really have been worth the 9 levels of babying AND the precious Second Seal that he needs to get out of Villager? I'm not sure I'd rather have Merc Donnel than, say, Cavalier Chrom, Wyvern Panne, Pegasus Lissa, etc.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I don't think Donnel is top tier, but I think in Awakening, the power gap between him and any other non Gale Force Unit isn't as big as people make it out to be. I look at Donnel as the polynomial power grower. He's weak early, and overshadowed late, but in the middle, he's great.

He's sub optimal in a no-grind and 200 hr grind environment, but with a moderate investment, he shoots up fast. He just has a lower ceiling than the other units. Not everyone puts in the time to cap everybody, and once you get Donnel out of Villager, he's pretty good for mid-late game until he starts hitting those caps, which he will, faster than anyone else.

That's really not true. Veteran with the very generous EXP floor lets Robin and kids (and both Lucina and Morgan can be acquired very early; a number of other husbando/waifu choices allow for easy early acquisition too) easily outpace Donnel without even trying. Panne also has growths that are very close to his, even accounting for Aptitude.

And at no point do those others have to contend with bases as laughable as his. Not everyone wants to waste a ton of time training him when it takes nearly 9 levels for him to just catch up to the level of power that the other characters would have at that same level, nor give him undue preference for either of the first two Second Seals over Robin or Panne. This is a huge, huge opportunity cost for his mid-game performance that will be barely better than any of the non-Robin units (yes, he will eventually pull ahead of many of the non-Robins/Robin!kids, but it will be a short-lived dominance during the easiest part of the game). You keep saying that you don't think the power gap is very big, but to even get him to that mid-game has a cost the width of the Grand Canyon.

[Moblin Major General]

Funny you say that, because Micaiah is basically Lilina stat wise (Read: not very fast, but she hits like a Mack truck)..

The issue is, would it really have been worth the 9 levels of babying AND the precious Second Seal that he needs to get out of Villager? I'm not sure I'd rather have Merc Donnel than, say, Cavalier Chrom, Wyvern Panne, Pegasus Lissa, etc.

All 3 of those have some sort of effective weapon weakness, with two of them being weak to bows, which are prevalent in a lot of places. Mercenary Donnel might be Bronze locked, but if you reclass him before Ch.4, he'll come into his own between then and Ch.11, which is Axe Emblem. The only other Merc you get outside of Paralogues is Gregor, who has lower stats than even base reclassed Donnel besides Weapon Rank.

[Shadow Mir]

All 3 of those have some sort of effective weapon weakness, with two of them being weak to bows, which are prevalent in a lot of places. Mercenary Donnel might be Bronze locked, but if you reclass him before Ch.4, he'll come into his own between then and Ch.11, which is Axe Emblem. The only other Merc you get outside of Paralogues is Gregor, who has lower stats than even base reclassed Donnel besides Weapon Rank.

Yeah, well, Wyvern Panne has THREE weaknesses, and yet that doesn't stop most people from recommending reclassing her.

Anyways, the issue with that what you're recommending is that barring DLC, grinding Donnel to Mercenary before chapter 4 is only feasible on normal mode thanks to Reeking Boxes costing an arm and a leg on any difficulty above Normal. Also, the fact that you're recommending going that far out of your way for his sake says a lot about him, and none of it is good.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Sigtryggr]

I will say this for Donnel; while he may not be worth it in terms of usability, he's definitely one of the most charming models I've ever seen when promo'd to Warrior and wielding a Ladle

[Laura]

I will say this for Donnel; while he may not be worth it in terms of usability, he's definitely one of the most charming models I've ever seen when promo'd to Warrior and wielding a Ladle

I got to admit, even I dislike Donnel, that's a good argument.

I only used him in my casual/normal playthrough because I wanted to use all the characters (like really, all of them) and I enjoyed using him after I changed his class to mercenary. But, I don't really want to use him again because I just disliked his whole personality (especially his quotes omfg) and the amount of babying I had to put into him.

[SSbardock84]

Because everyone ignores his stats because he starts with a stupid class, looks like a moron, and talks like a moron. Even when he does class change he still has a stupid pot on his head. I never use him either.

[Loki Laufeyson]

His Aptitude means that on runs that arent super serious and super stats, i can just pair him as-is, and pass down Aptitude. His kid will catch up in stats due to that and get Galeforce. So he only gets to be breeding fodder. I dont bother using him for anything else.

[Mikhail Naumov]

All 3 of those have some sort of effective weapon weakness, with two of them being weak to bows, which are prevalent in a lot of places. Mercenary Donnel might be Bronze locked, but if you reclass him before Ch.4, he'll come into his own between then and Ch.11, which is Axe Emblem. The only other Merc you get outside of Paralogues is Gregor, who has lower stats than even base reclassed Donnel besides Weapon Rank.

This is basically what I've done every time I've used Donnel, I just pull him out of Villager right away because there's little to no benefit in keeping him in that shit class unless you're just desperate to get his lance rank up and really don't want to use a Second Seal.

Gregor is the biggest let down of any Mercenary character I've ever seen in a Fire Emblem game, usually the first Mercenary you get ends up a Hero with all of his combat stats and HP capped or right at capping, Gregor didn't even come close (granted Awakening has the highest caps of any FE) to that and was overshadowed by most of my other units. Donnel's only purpose in my eyes is replacing Gregor as the token Mercenary because Gregor is just mediocre.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

I like Donnel, but I regard him as the worst, best, and again worst unit in the game.

What's worst about him is his bases - he'll be your weakest unit at the time he joins.

What's best about him are his growths - cheese and crackers, they're amazing. He's hard to get up-to-pace with everyone else, but once you get him there, he can just wreck. Especially when he reclasses, and gets boosted by being in a class with actual bases.

What else is worst about him is his lack of variability - he only has 3 fully promoted classes, the fewest in the game. Plus, he has capping issues, if you intend to use him for ridiculous DLC shenanigans.

[MrMcThrasher]

Babying isn't entirely an issue in a game where it's easy to grind, assuming you have the patience to do so of course. Otherwise, passing down Galeforce is most certainly worth the price of admission.

[Roflolxp54]

Babying isn't entirely an issue in a game where it's easy to grind, assuming you have the patience to do so of course. Otherwise, passing down Galeforce is most certainly worth the price of admission.

That's assuming Normal and maybe Hard difficulty. You most likely wouldn't be grinding at all on Lunatic(+) unless you have and are willing to abuse DLC maps.

[GuiltyLove]

Because everyone ignores his stats because he starts with a stupid class, looks like a moron, and talks like a moron. Even when he does class change he still has a stupid pot on his head. I never use him either.

I cannot agree with you any more than this. I hate Donnel and his stupid pot

[shadowofchaos]

Babying isn't entirely an issue in a game where it's easy to grind, assuming you have the patience to do so of course. Otherwise, passing down Galeforce is most certainly worth the price of admission.

Lunatic anti-grind skirmishes would like a word with you.

And you're throwing growths out for Donny's value out the window if you bring DLC into this.

Edited June 24, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Shadow Mir]

Babying isn't entirely an issue in a game where it's easy to grind, assuming you have the patience to do so of course. Otherwise, passing down Galeforce is most certainly worth the price of admission.

Unfortunately for Donnel, he's essentially in a lose-lose situation. If I don't grind, he loses. If I do grind, he still loses because while he's trying to catch up, everyone else is getting better too. And that's ignoring that this is only viable on Normal mode, unless you're willing to use DLC.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Lunatic anti-grind skirmishes would like a word with you.

And you're throwing growths out for Donny's value out the window if you bring DLC into this.

exactly, as i said previously in the thread, the people that will argue for donnel's worth are the same people that can not handle lunatic, no one has addressed this point that i have made on the second post of the thread. Because they can not address this point, because its true, and yet people are still trying to argue without a valid leg on to stand on.

it is the definition of insanity.

[DaveCozy]

So what units can Donnel be a good father for? The only that come to mind are Kjelle and Noire.

[Augestein]

So what units can Donnel be a good father for? The only that come to mind are Kjelle and Noire.

That's only assuming that you really want Galeforce that much. Merc is nice for Kjelle I guess.