Hardest & frustrating FE games ever

[Harvey]

Ok let's all face it. Unless you're a really smart and can pretty much beat the game without a sweat in your eyebrows, FE is some of the most hardest Nintendo franchises out there period.

Some might argue otherwise that its not as hard as they think but majority wise, it is hard as hell...but I love it that way to be honest.

So pick a game that you think is the hardest Fire Emblem game you've ever played and the most frustrating one ever.

For me, right now, Binding Blade seems to be the hardest FE game I've played as of now. Even Conquest is more forgiving compared to BB to me....and its also the most frustrating...

To start with, maps are quite big for something on a GBA game. Now you might argue that even Conquest has long maps as well but here's the real problem, Conquest atleast was proper in that you have units that are well balanced both in base and growth stats. Here in BB, its the opposite. Majority of the units that have good growth rates have bad bases like Ojey or Wolt and when they do have both, its only a few of them. Roy isn't the main problem here since you have units that do what Roy should be doing (killing the enemy lords for example....). And since almost every single unit in BB are weak as hell, it's too vexing to deal with a lot of the units.

Now normally I'm fine with reinforcements in FE games but in this one, I HATE them! They keep spawning like on and on and there's little to no relieve here.

Then there's the hit rate issue that BB has which is axes have low hit rates and swords are the only way to get proper hit rates unlike in Conquest where it only occurs to one unit who is still balanced regardless (Arthur in case you're wondering).

Then there's promotion issues. Now yeah sure, you can argue that even in Conquest you had issues on promotion issues but its NOWHERE as hugely limited as BB honestly. Granted, you only need a certain amount of them to get proper units but the problem is that you have this damn thief Cath who can steal a LOT of your promotional items and I lost my guilding ring to her. But in Conquest, you don't really lose a lot of items that are stolen (except money only on one chapter).

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Chapter 4x in FE5, if you play it for the first time for these reasons:

1. Fug of War
2. Tons of enemies close to you, especially many mages.
3. Very hard to recruit Asvel in time.

Edit: Since we're talking about games, it's FE5 for a blind player because of its beginner unfriendly mechanics.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Ayama Wirdo

[Dinar87]

I've heard maniac mode on 9 and 10 were pretty hard.

[Magical Glace]

While Binding Blade Normal is a cakewalk, Binding Blade Hard is not for one main reason: Roy promotes way too late.

Roy can die very easily in BB Hard after a certain point, even while blessed by Random Number Gods. Being stuck with unpromoted stats for so long just hurts badly.

Then there's promotion issues. Now yeah sure, you can argue that even in Conquest you had issues on promotion issues but its NOWHERE as hugely limited as BB honestly. Granted, you only need a certain amount of them to get proper units but the problem is that you have this damn thief Cath who can steal a LOT of your promotional items and I lost my guilding ring to her. But in Conquest, you don't really lose a lot of items that are stolen (except money only on one chapter).

Cath is hardly a problem. Just steal her lockpicks with Astore or Chad. The fact she took the ring is more your own fault than the game's when the game gives you an easy way to prevent her from looting chests.

As for the first Guiding Ring, I'm not going to argue that Guiding Rings were handled well (they weren't) but the other types of items are more reasonably done, I think. Only change I'd make is switch out the Chapter 12 Elysian Whip for a Guiding Ring.

To start with, maps are quite big for something on a GBA game. Now you might argue that even Conquest has long maps as well but here's the real problem, Conquest atleast was proper in that you have units that are well balanced both in base and growth stats. Here in BB, its the opposite. Majority of the units that have good growth rates have bad bases like Ojey or Wolt and when they do have both, its only a few of them. Roy isn't the main problem here since you have units that do what Roy should be doing (killing the enemy lords for example....). And since almost every single unit in BB are weak as hell, it's too vexing to deal with a lot of the units.

What does the unit balance have to do with the map size complaint? Whether you like large maps is subjective and I'm not going to bother arguing, but how is the topic of FE6 having too many weak units (which can easily be filled by prepromotes later in the game) relevant to justifying that complaint?

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I've heard maniac mode on 9 and 10 were pretty hard.

1-3, 3-6 and 3-13 are the only harder chapters in FE10. 1-9 can become a lottery, if your Micaiah is speedscrewed.

All in all not a hard game.

While Binding Blade Normal is a cakewalk, Binding Blade Hard is not for one main reason: Roy promotes way too late.

That's not a real matter, if you have other good units like Alance or Miledy.

When I played FE6 in HM for the first time I had an awful Roy too (was doubled by almost everyone). But as long you have enough other powerful front units and you can let stay Roy in the backround, you'll be fine.

Speaking of FE6: Earlygame in HM is hard, mainly chapter 4 and especially 7. Chapter 7 features lots of powerful, fast and tanky enemies (dracos with >10 speed and >30 HP) and make the recruitment of Zealot/Treck and Noah very hard because Roy can't take much shit so early in this game.

PS: I never ever was able to recruit Treck in HM.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Ayama Wirdo

[Magical Glace]

1-3, 3-6 and 3-13 are the only harder chapters in FE10. 1-9 can become a lottery, if your Micaiah is speedscrewed.

All in all not a hard game.

That's not a real matter, if you have other good units like Alance or Miledy.

When I played FE6 in HM for the first time I had an awful Roy too (was doubled by almost everyone). But as long you have enough other powerful front units and you can let stay Roy in the backround, you'll be fine.

Speaking of FE6: Earlygame in HM is hard, mainly chapter 4 and especially 7. Chapter 7 features lots of powerful, fast and tanky enemies (dracos with >10 speed and >30 HP) and make the recruitment of Zealot/Treck and Noah very hard because Roy can't take much shit so early in this game.

PS: I never ever was able to recruit Treck in HM.

I have a blessed Roy in terms of offenses but his HP is horrible. He gets overwhelmed very easily. Besides Roy being made of wet paper I'm fine, basically.

I never had trouble with Chapter 4 in FE6 Hard. I actually find FE6 Chapter 4 easier than FE7 Chapter 14.

Chapter 7 is a jerk though. Sorry Treck, not worth the trouble.

[Harvey]

While Binding Blade Normal is a cakewalk, Binding Blade Hard is not for one main reason: Roy promotes way too late.

Roy can die very easily in BB Hard after a certain point, even while blessed by Random Number Gods. Being stuck with unpromoted stats for so long just hurts badly.

Cath is hardly a problem. Just steal her lockpicks with Astore or Chad. The fact she took the ring is more your own fault than the game's when the game gives you an easy way to prevent her from looting chests.

As for the first Guiding Ring, I'm not going to argue that Guiding Rings were handled well (they weren't) but the other types of items are more reasonably done, I think. Only change I'd make is switch out the Chapter 12 Elysian Whip for a Guiding Ring.

What does the unit balance have to do with the map size complaint? Whether you like large maps is subjective and I'm not going to bother arguing, but how is the topic of FE6 having too many weak units (which can easily be filled by prepromotes later in the game) relevant to justifying that complaint?

But the game doesn't even teach you nor does it warn you that something like that can happen.

As for unit balance, its simple really. If you have good units that can kill enemies good and don't take too much damage for just one enemy, then fine but because many of your units are left unpromoted, your units can't cope with the enemies stats and that makes the map too vexing. If you had proper balanced units, then it helps to compensate for the long maps.

Even then, the amount of enemies coming are so damn large that it makes me wonder why even have reinforcements in this game to begin with? the first time you start on these long maps, you already have to face a huge amount of enemies there and yet reinforcements show up all of a sudden.

But ok, even if it still has nothing to do with long maps, the fact still stands that many of your units are weak right from the start with them always starting at lv 1 which makes it harder to train them and since promotion items are so limited, you will most likely pick units that are the only ones capable of doing something in the game which only two units Rutger and Dieck can only do....atleast for me.

[Harvey]

....then again, I'm not anywhere as good as you guys in Fire Emblem so I guess its just me then.....

Edited November 12, 2016 by Harvey

[Harvey]

I guess Awakening was a fairly challenging game when I first started the game. Not sure if I'll revisit it again anytime soon but I owe it to that game that got me into Fire Emblem.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Harvey

[Magical Glace]

But the game doesn't even teach you nor does it warn you that something like that can happen.

FE6 is hardly the only FE game that has Thief reinforcements to force you to rush to chests. And in the first chapter with Thief reinforcements, Cath shows up in the pre-battle dialogue to show that yes, thieves can enter the map and loot. By this logic, most FE games are just as frustrating in this regard as 6.

As for unit balance, its simple really. If you have good units that can kill enemies good and don't take too much damage for just one enemy, then fine but because many of your units are left unpromoted, your units can't cope with the enemies stats and that makes the map too vexing. If you had proper balanced units, then it helps to compensate for the long maps.

You do have good units though, in the form of FE6's high-base prepromotes. And you would still be dealing with a lot of enemies compared to your unit count on smaller maps.

Even then, the amount of enemies coming are so damn large that it makes me wonder why even have reinforcements in this game to begin with? the first time you start on these long maps, you already have to face a huge amount of enemies there and yet reinforcements show up all of a sudden.

To keep the pace up longer, just like... every other game in the series.

But ok, even if it still has nothing to do with long maps, the fact still stands that many of your units are weak right from the start with them always starting at lv 1 which makes it harder to train them and since promotion items are so limited, you will most likely pick units that are the only ones capable of doing something in the game which only two units Rutger and Dieck can only do....atleast for me.

I'm not arguing that the presence of weak units is an issue, because I consider FE6 horribly balanced despite how much I like it. I'm trying to point out that weak units and not liking long maps are separate problems entirely, you can have weak units and short maps or long maps and strong units.

[Peppy]

FE12 Lunatic Reverse was the hardest without being random as all hell.

All enemies essentially have Vantage+ in a difficulty where enemies have high stats all throughout and are in difficult to break formations. Some chapters require insane strats just to complete the chapter.

At least it feels satisfying as all hell once you complete it.

Most frustrating goes to FE13 Lunatic+. Counter is just the absolute worst.

[Topaz Light]

In regards to what the most frustrating Fire Emblem game (that I've played) is, I'd definitely have to go with Awakening Lunatic, but then, I'm also definitely in the camp that finds it to be the annoying, unfun kind of "hard" rather than a thrilling enjoyable challenge, so...

For a thrilling enjoyable challenge, FE12 Hard Mode was probably the closest I've personally gotten, along with what of Conquest I've played. I honestly don't know that the me of the present would find any of the Fire Emblem games to be really, especially hard now that I pretty much have Fire Emblem mechanics and etc. drilled into my brain, but they certainly have different levels of difficulty.

[Purikaman]

FE5 was a hassle, I tried to do it blind. It was so frustrating I give up, may retake it later with a guide.

FE2 is also really annoying, everything is so slow and everyone misses a lot.

Also FE1, that interface frustrates the hell out of me.

For hard... well, gotta be honest, every maniac/lunatic mode, period. I suck at FE and strategy games in general, hell I'll cry tears of joy when my brain allow me to foresee what can happen beyond the current turn.

Also I don't think is nice to tell others that what they find hard is not really hard at all, everyone has different capacities and experiences, just because one find it easy or tell other is easy they're not going to magically be good at it...

[Harvey]

FE6 is hardly the only FE game that has Thief reinforcements to force you to rush to chests. And in the first chapter with Thief reinforcements, Cath shows up in the pre-battle dialogue to show that yes, thieves can enter the map and loot. By this logic, most FE games are just as frustrating in this regard as 6.

When I said teaching, I meant simply explaining to the player what things you should be weary about and what you shouldn't be weary about. FE6 doesn't do enough of that teaching the basic mechanics and other things properly unlike the most recent FE games so in this one, you have to constantly use the guide to get an idea of what to do because you only get one shot at it. And since this game doesn't do enough to teach you about the map's traps and other gimmicks, its all a matter of trial and error just to get an idea of the map without the guide which is even more frustrating.

You do have good units though, in the form of FE6's high-base prepromotes. And you would still be dealing with a lot of enemies compared to your unit count on smaller maps.

Its not about whether you get good units or not, its about when you get them. At times when maps are long, you are stuck with weak units and you only get strong ones very late in the game and by the time that happens, the only good units you get are a max of four and that's it...that itself is long and tedious.

And no...those prepromotes come so so late in the game. Honestly, I don't see the point of Orion's Belt if Wolt, Sue and Sin can't even compare to that of Klain and Igrene.....

To keep the pace up longer, just like... every other game in the series.

I'm not arguing that the presence of weak units is an issue, because I consider FE6 horribly balanced despite how much I like it. I'm trying to point out that weak units and not liking long maps are separate problems entirely, you can have weak units and short maps or long maps and strong units.

Actually, the situation where you get strong units helps in beating the map fast. In Birthright, you really don't need to bother raising other units once you get Ryoma as he can easily beat the maps so fast and even the bosses if done right. The only other unit you will ever need to raise stats with is Corrin but only because he can kill the final boss faster. So it really doesn't matter just how many units you get in Birthright as Ryoma skills of being a gamble is enough to beat a map in like 20 minutes....

I honestly feel that having long maps is only because of having to train your units well and I get why its done like this so you can easily figure out who to train and who is worth training so long as the units are balanced enough that you get to raise them. Before BB, every single unit that I've used in such games like Awakening, Fates and Holy war are fairly trainable to the point that their stats are good enough to make you wait to get better units later on.... some might be very low and untrainable yes but again, there's only so few I can think of.

But BB is simply horrible in that regard because again, a LOT of your units are weak and the only ones worth raising are the ones who HAVE good stats which are so far and between. Fir is simply not anywhere as great as Rutger simply because not only you get her very late in the game, but she starts with Lv1, a time that is simply NOT the time to even get to that point. Geese starts with lv 10 so it makes it easier to train him and some can argue that Gonzales is the better unit but to me, so far Geese is doing better for me atleast..why can't all units start with a lv that your units will be around then? If that did happen, then BB would've been tolerable at the very least.

But its not and I think that Nintendo must have realized that this game is too hard to even bother localizing it to the west as they might as well do a reboot of it instead. Comparing the balance between BB and Conquest is easily noticeable because again, Conquest has good units from the start, mid and late unlike BB.

Again, I'm not saying BB is a bad game as I really like it quite a lot as its got an interesting story and solid gameplay. I just find it hard for the reasons that I stated. Maybe I need to play more FE games for me to understand FE better I guess.... and I also guess that whatever I just said now might seem very awkward for most of you which I'm fine as well...I guess I need to be better at FE games or understand FE better.

[Magical Glace]

When I said teaching, I meant simply explaining to the player what things you should be weary about and what you shouldn't be weary about. FE6 doesn't do enough of that teaching the basic mechanics and other things properly unlike the most recent FE games so in this one, you have to constantly use the guide to get an idea of what to do because you only get one shot at it. And since this game doesn't do enough to teach you about the map's traps and other gimmicks, its all a matter of trial and error just to get an idea of the map without the guide which is even more frustrating.

FE6 has quite possibly the most to-the-point tutorial in the series. It's in the extras menu. In other words, the game takes the tutorial content out of the main game but still has it.

FE has never really outright stated "Oh no! An enemy thief, they'll take chests!" to my knowledge, because in all games, 6 included, they're implied to be there for that purpose since that's what yours are for.

Its not about whether you get good units or not, its about when you get them. At times when maps are long, you are stuck with weak units and you only get strong ones very late in the game and by the time that happens, the only good units you get are a max of four and that's it...that itself is long and tedious.

You get plenty of good units early, Rutger, Dieck, and Allen/Lance to name some. Max of four good units is a gross underestimate of FE6's unit quality. Again, FE6 isn't perfectly balanced and there are standout problem units (Dorothy, Wendy, and Sophia come to mind). But you're acting like no one is usable early or something.

And no...those prepromotes come so so late in the game. Honestly, I don't see the point of Orion's Belt if Wolt, Sue and Sin can't even compare to that of Klain and Igrene.....

I'm not sure what land you're living in that Shin isn't good, Wolt and Sue maybe, but Shin gets some nice HM boosts and pretty much everyone is usable on Normal except Sophia and Wendy. As for prepromote jointimes... Not really? The best prepromotes are midgamers, Perceval can be recruited in Chapter 13 for example (15 if you miss him initially). Even some late prepromotes can fit on a team in FE6, Niime comes to mind there.

Actually, the situation where you get strong units helps in beating the map fast. In Birthright, you really don't need to bother raising other units once you get Ryoma as he can easily beat the maps so fast and even the bosses if done right. The only other unit you will ever need to raise stats with is Corrin but only because he can kill the final boss faster. So it really doesn't matter just how many units you get in Birthright as Ryoma skills of being a gamble is enough to beat a map in like 20 minutes....

I haven't played Birthright so can't properly respond here.

I honestly feel that having long maps is only because of having to train your units well and I get why its done like this so you can easily figure out who to train and who is worth training so long as the units are balanced enough that you get to raise them. Before BB, every single unit that I've used in such games like Awakening, Fates and Holy war are fairly trainable to the point that their stats are good enough to make you wait to get better units later on.... some might be very low and untrainable yes but again, there's only so few I can think of.

I'm still not getting what this has to do with map length? You can get a feel of a unit on any map, regardless of how long it is.

But BB is simply horrible in that regard because again, a LOT of your units are weak and the only ones worth raising are the ones who HAVE good stats which are so far and between. Fir is simply not anywhere as great as Rutger simply because not only you get her very late in the game, but she starts with Lv1, a time that is simply NOT the time to even get to that point. Geese starts with lv 10 so it makes it easier to train him and some can argue that Gonzales is the better unit but to me, so far Geese is doing better for me atleast..why can't all units start with a lv that your units will be around then? If that did happen, then BB would've been tolerable at the very least.

Fir also joins in Axeland with a ton of terrain cover (meaning she can hit easily and dodge easily as well), and comes with HM boosts. She isn't better than Rutger since Rutger can easily help carry the early game, but she's by no means unusable. The fact Swordmaster is among FE6's best classes helps her case. And no, Fir is not late in the game. Fir joins in Chapter 9 (tenth overall), which is only about 1/3 of the way through a Full chapter run (25 main chapters + 6 Gaiden Chapters). Now if you were complaining about Wendy or Sophia? Those are FE6's best examples of weak, hard to train and overall horrible units, so I would understand, they're more problematic than Fir by far. For Wendy, she's stuck with a near permanent WTD for a few chapters after she joins, on top of low move and bases. For Sophia, she can't hit anything to save her life (unlike Fir) on top of being unable to dodge at least somewhat competently (again, unlike Fir). Neither of them get HM boosts either, unlike Fir.

Geese vs Gonzales I have no comment, since I've never used either due to bias.

But its not and I think that Nintendo must have realized that this game is too hard to even bother localizing it to the west as they might as well do a reboot of it instead. Comparing the balance between BB and Conquest is easily noticeable because again, Conquest has good units from the start, mid and late unlike BB.

Like with Birthright, I haven't played Conquest (or any other version of Fates).

Again, I'm not saying BB is a bad game as I really like it quite a lot as its got an interesting story and solid gameplay. I just find it hard for the reasons that I stated. Maybe I need to play more FE games for me to understand FE better I guess.... and I also guess that whatever I just said now might seem very awkward for most of you which I'm fine as well...I guess I need to be better at FE games or understand FE better.

Not quite sure what you're trying to say after the first sentence. Edited November 13, 2016 by Glaceon Mage

[NinjaMonkey]

Shadow Dragon is both for me, with the PC units having crappy bases and growths, the weapon triangle doing nothing even if it's in the players' favour, and healers being really useless at their jobs.

[SalShich10N]

Awakening's Lunatic without DLC or Lunatic+ in it's entirety. I thought it was a scam that they released a bullshit hard

Conquest Chapter 25 in Lunatic if you try to rout. You only really need to get the Silence Staff (as in absolutely need it) and roid Corrin to kill Ryoma, but I realized the Silence Staff was on the wrong side of the room a little too late and had too many good level ups to just reset. I'd say chapter 26 and Endgame, but you can cheese those two with odd strategies (Draw Staff on Hans + Silence and Rescue-Dance-Shelter shenanigans respectively). I did beat the Endgame without passing it, though, but I was using my Visit/Battle rewards and some Online skills.

I'm gonna say FE5 is the most unforgiving at times. Just to name my personal worst:

Chapter 4: I wasn't using a guide until this piece of love forced me to. It has so much shit you need to do because if you don't you miss out on chapter 4x which includes a lot of necessary stuff, including your only mage for the good first chunk of the game. You have to prepare mentally that the next 40 minutes of your life will be dedicated to having a single thief open like 16 treasure chests, watching NPCs get captured, having to constantly fight in WT disadvantage with the development team telling to your face dodgetanking is a valid strategy and to get good. All without a staffer. And then as if to shit on your face, once you finally finish with the center you need to escape crossing like 12 enemy Armors among which one is recruitable. The only unpromoted Armored Knight that you can use in the entire game at that.

Chapter 11: So your entire army gets Kampfed in america a small room in the middle the map and the only way to advance is through a set of 3 doors that you need to unlock with a thief. The kicker, is that when the doors close to trap you 2 ballista spawn to assault you. This happens at the end of your turn, so you will have to take that turn of ballista damage. Then you have to make your way through the doors. Your thieves are not resilient people, and one of them in particular, Lara can easily get one shot by them. Whoever opens the first door will be in range of both of the shots. This game really expects poor Lara (14 HP, 0 defense) to dodge those shots meanwhile Kaga shows up in your screen at tells you "don't worry bro, it's just 20% 3-4 times, she'll be alright.". I had to restart 2 times because Lara got one shot the very turn those things came out.

Chapter 18: Recruiting Xavier. I know it's optional, but god damn it it was either recruiting him or calling myself a casual for the rest of my life. I cannot have the latter.

Chapter 24x: This is the real final boss of the game. Bullshit hidden tiles that warp whoever steps in them in gang rape rooms to be flooded and die unless you rescue staff them.

Edited November 13, 2016 by SalShich10N

[PKL]

Most frustrating definetely awakening lunatic+ for me. Luna spam in earlygame, counter later makes for a terrible, unfun experience throughout.

Hardest? Hard to say atm but its between fe12 lunatic reverse and fe14 conquest lunatic for me. Even though now i can beat them without struggling, first few runs of them were definetely the hardest fes ive played.

[Shadow Mir]

Actually, the situation where you get strong units helps in beating the map fast. In Birthright, you really don't need to bother raising other units once you get Ryoma as he can easily beat the maps so fast and even the bosses if done right. The only other unit you will ever need to raise stats with is Corrin but only because he can kill the final boss faster. So it really doesn't matter just how many units you get in Birthright as Ryoma skills of being a gamble is enough to beat a map in like 20 minutes....

Why are you singling out Birthright when I'm sure that's not the only game that's true of?? Also, Birthright is a game with a lot of routs, and Ryoma can't be everywhere at once. On top of that, this IS Fates we're talking about, and I wouldn't have unwavering confidence that Ryoma wouldn't get hit ever.

Anyways... I'd say FE6 for most frustrating, in large part because of the ambush spawns, the map gimmicks that some of the gaidens have, and the hit rates, among others. Those might also set it in for hardest, but I think FE6 is the annoying, unfun kind of hard, as opposed to the enjoyable challenge kind of hard. I'd probably consider Conquest hardest. (This is strictly limited to the games I've played)

Edited November 13, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Harvey]

FE6 has quite possibly the most to-the-point tutorial in the series. It's in the extras menu. In other words, the game takes the tutorial content out of the main game but still has it.

FE has never really outright stated "Oh no! An enemy thief, they'll take chests!" to my knowledge, because in all games, 6 included, they're implied to be there for that purpose since that's what yours are for.

From the tutorial that I went through, it doesn't teach the weapon triangle nor does it teach the healers and the dancers as well. If you are gonna want to know how to use them, then you need to know what they do in the first place.

You get plenty of good units early, Rutger, Dieck, and Allen/Lance to name some. Max of four good units is a gross underestimate of FE6's unit quality. Again, FE6 isn't perfectly balanced and there are standout problem units (Dorothy, Wendy, and Sophia come to mind). But you're acting like no one is usable early or something.

I'm not sure what land you're living in that Shin isn't good, Wolt and Sue maybe, but Shin gets some nice HM boosts and pretty much everyone is usable on Normal except Sophia and Wendy. As for prepromote jointimes... Not really? The best prepromotes are midgamers, Perceval can be recruited in Chapter 13 for example (15 if you miss him initially). Even some late prepromotes can fit on a team in FE6, Niime comes to mind there.

Rutger, Allen, Lance and Dieck start out weak and Rutger will only be a god if he's promoted which will take some time doing so. You may have played this game and know it better but I'm talking about it in the sense of how other players might not see it so.

Chapter 13/15 isn't mid, its near lategame.

I haven't played Birthright so can't properly respond here.

I'm still not getting what this has to do with map length? You can get a feel of a unit on any map, regardless of how long it is.

If the map is long, more enemies show up but if the map is small, then less will show up. Why not the opposite just to make the game more forgiving instead?

Fir also joins in Axeland with a ton of terrain cover (meaning she can hit easily and dodge easily as well), and comes with HM boosts. She isn't better than Rutger since Rutger can easily help carry the early game, but she's by no means unusable. The fact Swordmaster is among FE6's best classes helps her case. And no, Fir is not late in the game. Fir joins in Chapter 9 (tenth overall), which is only about 1/3 of the way through a Full chapter run (25 main chapters + 6 Gaiden Chapters). Now if you were complaining about Wendy or Sophia? Those are FE6's best examples of weak, hard to train and overall horrible units, so I would understand, they're more problematic than Fir by far. For Wendy, she's stuck with a near permanent WTD for a few chapters after she joins, on top of low move and bases. For Sophia, she can't hit anything to save her life (unlike Fir) on top of being unable to dodge at least somewhat competently (again, unlike Fir). Neither of them get HM boosts either, unlike Fir.

Geese vs Gonzales I have no comment, since I've never used either due to bias.

Maybe so but then why does she start at lv 1 a level that many units start with at WRONG times?

Like with Birthright, I haven't played Conquest (or any other version of Fates).

Not quite sure what you're trying to say after the first sentence.

I suggest playing Fates so you can get my point.

As for what I'm trying to say.....I suppose I need to get better in TRPG games since that genre forces me to spend a lot of my time...or just forget it....

Why are you singling out Birthright when I'm sure that's not the only game that's true of?? Also, Birthright is a game with a lot of routs, and Ryoma can't be everywhere at once. On top of that, this IS Fates we're talking about, and I wouldn't have unwavering confidence that Ryoma wouldn't get hit ever.

Anyways... I'd say FE6 for most frustrating, in large part because of the ambush spawns, the map gimmicks that some of the gaidens have, and the hit rates, among others. Those might also set it in for hardest, but I think FE6 is the annoying, unfun kind of hard, as opposed to the enjoyable challenge kind of hard. I'd probably consider Conquest hardest. (This is strictly limited to the games I've played)

Because I haven't played a lot of FE games and birthright comes in mind...

Edited November 13, 2016 by Harvey

[General Horace]

Overall, I actually find either FE7 or FE12 the most frustrating to play. FE7 has this stretch of boring defence maps from Vaida's first map till endgame with a load of really terrible chapters that frustrates me because it's tedious to play, and FE12 (most notably every prologue map and gaiden map) maps in general I just don't find that enjoyable. Chapter 3 takes the cake though.

Most difficult is Lunatic Reverse in FE12.

Edited November 13, 2016 by General Horace

[Harvey]

Overall, I actually find either FE7 or FE12 the most frustrating to play. FE7 has this stretch of boring defence maps from Vaida's first map till endgame with a load of really terrible chapters that frustrates me because it's tedious to play, and FE12 (most notably every prologue map and gaiden map) maps in general I just don't find that enjoyable. Chapter 3 takes the cake though.

Most difficult is Lunatic Reverse in FE12.

!?!? I thought Blazing Sword is one of the easiest FE games out there!!!!!!! Its that hard?!?!?

[Irysa]

He said frustrating, not hard. It's just annoying to play long boring maps back to back, because you can't do anything to speed them up.

Most frustrating - FE10 on first playthrough because of the worst enemy phases in the franchise. Generally speaking I don't find any of the games frustrating to play from a purely mechanical perspective. I guess I probably dislike FE7 the most since it has some of the worst map design in the series, but FE12's narrative changes do bother me a lot.

Hardest, FE12 Lunatic Reverse easily. Lunatic+ can be bruteforced.

EDIT: Not played Fates.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Irysa

[Locke087]

When I said teaching, I meant simply explaining to the player what things you should be weary about and what you shouldn't be weary about. FE6 doesn't do enough of that teaching the basic mechanics and other things properly unlike the most recent FE games so in this one, you have to constantly use the guide to get an idea of what to do because you only get one shot at it. And since this game doesn't do enough to teach you about the map's traps and other gimmicks, its all a matter of trial and error just to get an idea of the map without the guide which is even more frustrating.

Its not about whether you get good units or not, its about when you get them. At times when maps are long, you are stuck with weak units and you only get strong ones very late in the game and by the time that happens, the only good units you get are a max of four and that's it...that itself is long and tedious.

And no...those prepromotes come so so late in the game. Honestly, I don't see the point of Orion's Belt if Wolt, Sue and Sin can't even compare to that of Klain and Igrene.....

Actually, the situation where you get strong units helps in beating the map fast. In Birthright, you really don't need to bother raising other units once you get Ryoma as he can easily beat the maps so fast and even the bosses if done right. The only other unit you will ever need to raise stats with is Corrin but only because he can kill the final boss faster. So it really doesn't matter just how many units you get in Birthright as Ryoma skills of being a gamble is enough to beat a map in like 20 minutes....

I honestly feel that having long maps is only because of having to train your units well and I get why its done like this so you can easily figure out who to train and who is worth training so long as the units are balanced enough that you get to raise them. Before BB, every single unit that I've used in such games like Awakening, Fates and Holy war are fairly trainable to the point that their stats are good enough to make you wait to get better units later on.... some might be very low and untrainable yes but again, there's only so few I can think of.

But BB is simply horrible in that regard because again, a LOT of your units are weak and the only ones worth raising are the ones who HAVE good stats which are so far and between. Fir is simply not anywhere as great as Rutger simply because not only you get her very late in the game, but she starts with Lv1, a time that is simply NOT the time to even get to that point. Geese starts with lv 10 so it makes it easier to train him and some can argue that Gonzales is the better unit but to me, so far Geese is doing better for me atleast..why can't all units start with a lv that your units will be around then? If that did happen, then BB would've been tolerable at the very least.

But its not and I think that Nintendo must have realized that this game is too hard to even bother localizing it to the west as they might as well do a reboot of it instead. Comparing the balance between BB and Conquest is easily noticeable because again, Conquest has good units from the start, mid and late unlike BB.

Again, I'm not saying BB is a bad game as I really like it quite a lot as its got an interesting story and solid gameplay. I just find it hard for the reasons that I stated. Maybe I need to play more FE games for me to understand FE better I guess.... and I also guess that whatever I just said now might seem very awkward for most of you which I'm fine as well...I guess I need to be better at FE games or understand FE better.

Remember that binding blade is a game for veterans not beginners it's tutorial is even hidden away in menus though you can access it.

What you're describing here is called balance issues, what's interesting though is binding blade has the least over powered units in any fire emblem game (from what I have observed), because mabye with the sole exception of Percival I can't think of anyone that's really OP maybe Milady & Rutger? Anyways you'll find that most of the good units or is good as they would be on a higher difficulty setting another fire emblem. Dieck is a monster from beginning to end, if you don't truly appreciate Rutger may I ask who's killing your bosses? Because Rutger is the only one they can hit them with consistency. Also Sue is good in normal she has fine growths and she has a horse, Shin is usually better though. Lance & Allen are awesome, Lugh and Lilina are really good, Clarine & Saul are great healers, Astor is a free lv 10 theif, Shanna is great as well though Milady will totally eclipse her. So that's about 10 or so early game units that are okay I think that's enough and we get as more go along. The good people are good you just got to get used to the fact that at lot of the people you recruit will be fodder that are there for challenge playthoughs.

By the way as far as Birthright is concerned if you took Birthright characters and shoved them into blinding blade they would do pretty badly actually Birthright only has as many good units as it does because the game is so fetching easy, really only ones were having are the ninjas, the servants, and the Royals, the rest are just decent to bad or are Pre-promotes. Really you just need to know to appreciate each game for what they are as you move for though then because they're all very different from one another. It's only once I did that was able to actually like Binding Blade.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Locke087

[eclipse]

Ok let's all face it. Unless you're a really smart and can pretty much beat the game without a sweat in your eyebrows, FE is some of the most hardest Nintendo franchises out there period.

Whoa. Stop.

Everyone's got their own strengths and weaknesses when it comes to games. My strength is sitting down and puzzling things out, which is why Fire Emblem is doable for me. My weakness is real-time anything, so I find the likes of Splatoon completely baffling.

Anyway. . .

Most frustrating - The later portions of Revelations. I get annoyed when a map gets too gimmicky.

Hardest - Conquest, and I'm not even done with that draft! Each map feels like the developers intended for you to have something-or-other (like a non-beast unit that can wield beast-killing weapons in Chapter 19), and if you don't have that, it becomes a pain in the neck.