Mr. Francis York Morgan

Doubling is overrated. OHKo forges are far superior. Anything that she can't double usually Caeda is facing first. Or quite simply Minerva/Abel/Cain/Jeigan/Wendell/Hardin are all gonna gang up on them. In non warpskip Abel/Cain/Hardin can promote not to mention Marth has the rapier to finish off any knight/cav unfortunate enough to be left alive by the cavs/draco spam. You just didn't appreciate how much it did matter. Actually A rank axes can take quite some time. He won't be seeing them till after promotion. And he has a hard enough time getting to C ranks as it is. If we assume all the best high move units are in use then he has even bigger issues since he is gonna be seeing far less combat. I don't think anyone is throwing a Speedwing on her unless they plan on dumping a bunch of other shit either. And I am not even gonna bother arguing it either. Her rank is because of A axes/high move and decent durability. If you can't see past the low stats in how that might be overall more useful in conjuncture with abel/cain/hardin/jeigan/wendell all picking high move classes to provide backup to Caeda then I give up. Edit: Yea ok you could totally toss the Speedwing on Minerva. See it's not just Minerva providing backup to Caeda. There's a whole team of dudes. And most of them can consider themselves lucky if they see C rank axes by chapter 20.

Go watch Dondons video's. And yes you are auto devalued. Not bottomed. Devalued. Jeigan's late game is better than Barst's lategame in warpskip though that what you don't understand. All that matters is the weapon ranks and high move to keep up with Caeda. Most of the enemies Jeigan is fighting are fairly slow. Knights/mages/cavs mostly in chapter 10/12/17. Oh and if you read my post I just said Barst's endgame wasn't as valuable as Jeigan's early game since their are a ton of units who can replicate his performance on some level by that point in the game. That's the summary for ya. It's not like Vincent didn't just post it above so you can scroll up and read it. In response to chainey: I never said Bottomed. I said DEVALUED. Being able to keep up with the guy who is actually beating the chapter should be a actual factor in how we tier these dudes.

Efficiency. Also did I ever say he was useless? No I didn't. We've just reevaluated his actual position and it appears that their were simply better strategies. If you can't support Haar/Ike/whoever was top tier for any specific chapter in RD your usefulness is limited. If you can't support Titania in POR your usefulness is limited. If you can't support Seth in SS your usefulness was limited. If you can't support the top tiers in SoS your usefulness was limited. In all these games the goals of most other units for maximum efficiency was to simply help out the strongest who were leading the charge. He might miss an enemy or maybe he gets overwhelmed by ranged units and needs others to clear a path so he can move the maximum amount each turn. Either way he needs people who can keep up with him and pick off any morons who dare to attack him so he can keep moving. If you noticed most of these guys are HIGH move units. Similar to Caeda/Jeigan/Minerva.

Dondon is still right then if you think just by taking away warp you make it a fair game for Barst. Jeigan's 1-12 is easily more valueable by turn count efficiency than barst's 2-endgame. Not to mention with that high move Jeigan can still maintain utility for quite some time after 12 with a forged ridersbane without harming the player efficiency wise since all he has to do is keep up with Caeda to be efficient. Which Barst can't ever do except as a horseman which is a complete joke of a class outside of highmove sacrifices/enemy manipulation. Think about this for one moment. When does Barst ever save the player turns that no one else in the game can't replicate? So what if Barst can double/ORKO the braves in the late game and even pulls off getting 3RKOed himself. Everything he can do the other high tiers and even some upper mids can replicate. Caeda herself happens to be completely superior to him at it provided she was given the 2 draco shields and the 2 seraph robes. Even with the boosters himself Barst still doesn't have the high move/high defense the dracoknight class provides so he is still far worse than her. And let's not even talk about how broken the wingspear is. Here's the problem with Barst. Efficiency is not defined by how good he is... it's defined by how well he can support Caeda.... and earlier in the game, Jeigan. And if a unit can't keep up with them or perhaps use a psychic stave to heal them... then they are screwed tier wise. I'm actually gonna have to agree with Dondon again in non warpskip on Minerva being superior to Barst for a good portion of the game. That 10 move+A axes+flight combo is far more useful than another low move fighter. She's the perfect wingman for Caeda.

Dondon is right actually. In H5 warpskip Barst is never given the opportunity to promote. Not to mention he has a very hard time gaining levels due to the speed the tier player is going at, lack of move, and bad hit to top it all off. For example Barst is unlikely to reach C ranks to wield hammers for chapter 6 giving Bord higher utility for that chapter. Jeigan on the other hands roflstomps 1-3 and continues to own ass with high defense as a draco and silver/ridersbane from chapters 1-10. He even helps us warpskip chapter 11 on the first turn via draco if we choose to outright skip 10. Once the warpskip begins it's over for barst and all he is good for is killing one of the two knights in your path to the boss with the hammer on chapter 17 and being sacrificed/warped in the nigh endgame to open the chest for alm/buy shit from the secret shop. Jeigan can still take advantage of the forged dragonpiked via trading after Caeda has weakened chapter 17's boss to finish it off and with higher move/silver he is distinctly better than barst in both chapters 12/17 and 17x which due to every other chapter being skipped in some fashion actually makes Jeigan the superior late game unit if you considered that the game pretty much ends on chapter 17 since everything including 17x is getting warpskipped afterwards. Edit: And honestly I didn't even go down the whole marth arguement that is he opens the door/chest to get 17x's Warpstave. Edit: If I redid the list now I'd put Jeigan/Wendell/Abel/Hardin/Merric a tier above Ogma/Barst. Prob even top alongside the stavers/dragons/caeda/marth.

So? This is the LAST (KEYWORD) update on it. And their is no way in hell Rody is gonna get into top tier without being at least pretty damn good. Just imagine what reclass is gonna do for this boy.

Ya wanna know what's really sad. This is your latest tier list for fire emblem 3 book 2. Cecil/Luke are at the very bottom of the highest tier so what a great big gap that is. Lower Top Tier Wendel Minerva Roddy Kain Yumina Marisa Julian Kashim AINT RODY JUST A COMPLETE PIECE OF SHIT! WHY HE'S ONLY IN LOWER TOP TIER!

Class swap does wonders ya know. Don't be surprised when someone high tiers him.

Fine. I give. You know exactly what this means. Don't act stupid. Their has only been 1 female hero in the entire history of the series. What makes you think their gonna come up with a whole bunch of new sprites so every girl with a different hair color can be a hero? This is IS we are talking about. Hero has almost always been a better class than swordmaster aside from rutger/guy.

That won't matter if this goes the way of DS and all 3 cavs are incapable of doubling UNTIL promotion. Her speed is good no question. But it's not like she is bragging +5 speed base and 60+ speed growth. Take a look at her level in the screen. 11 speed at level 6. It will then come down to durability/strength which luke will always win in till promotion. Rody while worse than both beforehand will be bragging luke's strength and Cecil's speed after promotion. Not to mention they have Hero and she has Swordmaster and the weapon ranks/two range are gonna favor them more than her unless she gets a two ranged lancer reaver capable of being forged. I wouldn't be surprised if she goes uppermid and they stay high tier.

Cecil got nerfed. She is no longer able to wield silver lances at base and she only starts with an E rank in lances. Edit: Lock this. I was wrong when I bought it up in the topic. It doesn't take long for luke/rody to surpass her. Half the battle was weapon rank superiority. They could have at least kept D ranks in lances. She's auto below them now unless she gets enough speed to be able to double as a cav most of the game.

The only characters that are gonna need real boosts in this whole game are Sheema/Roshe/Est if they are sticking to FE3 Book 2 stat wise. And this isn't DS in terms of characters are shit and their is nothing you can do to fix that on H5. Edit: Actually I finally played Hard 3 recently... And I'm kinda surprised. I should have played H3 sooner. All I play is pretty much H5. Pretty much every character is a load easier to use on H3 and you can even take advantage of classes like knight/myrmidon. Edit Again: I forgot about the goddamn triangle attack and how since both paola/katua are pretty much top Est gets the benefit of it if she is used in conjuncture with them so she is also able to be immediately used. You'll find everyone else can be pretty much immediately used. Also why the heck is everyone complaining about casual mode. I like the idea of casual mode myself. It means we can tier debate using optimal strategies like sacrificing units and not feel guilty afterward... Tier debaters are people to ya know. Besides it will increase sales for this game.

Please explain to me the significance of the link you posted in context with this thread. Because I am baffled as all hell right now.

What about the boots? Should we just instantly throw them on say Jill/Volug? I can't see much other use for them that doesn't instantly benefit the player in part 3.

Sorry about the insult.You guys were right anyway on Jill having a hard time speed wise vs Ike. I thought Jill's cap was higher than 25 so it would be easier to gain the speed to pull off the double. It doesn't really matter that much though since she can still reach him fairly early on with paragon/beastfoe as skills and 2RKO-3RKO his ass and then canto back into range so Laura can heal with psychic.

I'm assuming it's tier 3 Jill with paragon/parity to level up on the laguz prior to him. Not sure if she can equip both. If not I'd suggest paragon simply for the chance to power level speed up. I have this uber transfer for Jill that I always use so I'm definitely biased. And doesn't Ike only have 27 speed as his cap at tier 2? Or is that just his average?

Just listing my own thoughts on the subject: The dracoshield, energy drop, and dual seraph robes you get in part 1 should all be dropped on either Jill or Volug. Not sure which would be the best. They both have their pros and cons. The best GM's don't really need them and no one else makes as good of use of these items as they do. The speed wings should all go to GM and to either Haar/Titania. Sell the rest of the useless stat boosters like the arm scrolls/ashera icon. Zihark's adept isn't really all that useful in part 3. I'd say transfer it to GM's. Nephenee/Titania would love a second adept after Mia gets first dibs on Soren's. Heck maybe Heather could use it along with the beastslayer, the Pt. 2 energy drop, and a early crowning. Not efficient at all but she does have high speed. Paragon should always go to GM's but if not it is definitely going to Jill cause she doesn't need supports to slaughter laguz/Ike and doesn't have to deal with gauge issues. Celerity is always going to GM's. Hammer/Wyrmslayers are also good for GM's. Pass saves time for GM's so that's a definite ship. Resolve is iffy. Definitely useful to DB but GM has more chapters to make use of it. Wrath is quite the waste on Eddie... yet not really all that great elsewhere. Micaiah is pretty damn consistent with Thani and heals for the most part during part 3. So who cares about wrath. Cancel should go to GM's. Read the link in Interceptors sig about how the GM's need no money in regards to gems and the like. Although they can still help out. It's pretty much the blue gem that's going if we are transferring money. BTW I think we should consider always wasting a master seal on Ilyana just so she can transfer more stuff to the GM's via actually equipping skills like Celerity. Discipline/Parity/Beastfoe/Vantage are all staying DB.

This is IS we are talking about. It's a hell of a lot easier to program lancer reavers into the game than to provide a balance of weapon types throughout the game while still maintaining high difficulty. The levin sword could be made into viable 2 range if swordmaster/myrmidon had a magic base or a magic growth to accompany it. And if it were less expensive (like handaxes/javelins in price range) and more available to buy it could actually be a good option.

Honestly I'm glad they gave females Cavalier at least. The lack of axes pre promotion for females saddens me though. If this game uses the weapon ranks/bases of SD for reclass I really hope they add lancer reavers back in New Mystery otherwise myrm/swordmaster will be just as useless of a class on vicious as it was on H5. The women better start with D ranks as wyverns to compensate cause this is just gonna turn really unfair once promotion phase begins. Just imagine instead of going fighter/hero instead the manly men go fighter/draco and have C-B ranks while the women are left struggling at E ranks. Edit: Then again this is FE3 BOOK 2 so Lances might still be the best weapons. So hey I could just be whining about nothing. Archers better have 6 move. Heck so should mage/cleric/knight. Their really is no excuse for knights to have absolute shit for move considering most of them have no speed whatsoever. Might as well give them the same move as every other unit since they aren't going to double everything on the map. Perhaps after the character promotes the player can choose between a whole bunch of classes depending on the set their in. Like an archer could look forward to using both Horseman/Sniper. Maybe even General might be available as a promotion class for women somehow....

Yea that to. I really like Marth's new design btw. I would love it if Caeda ended up with a similar design to this btw: http://www.serenesforest.net/media/tcg/6/fe6-060.jpg A man can only hope.... Almost every videogame/movie/tv character ever is a sue. Heck you can even find sues in new york time best sellers! /End Discussion AKA find something better to complain about.

Ok let me point this out to you all in a fashion you might understand. I don't think I've made my point in a way you can understand yet. FEDS Tier List in comparison to other lists. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FEDS God Tier = High High Tier = Upper Middle Upper Middle = Middle Middle = Lower middle Lower Middle = Low Low = Bottom Bottom = Joke Joke = Est and Arran's failed marriage. It's like having 20 lyre's of varying suckitude with no way to escape that suck. Don't tell me to NOT play the game efficiently. Make these units NOT UTTER CRAP. This has nothing to do with efficiency or balance and everything to do with IS giving us 20 useless shitheads out of 57 units available. These guys only serve as filler/sacrifices. That's it. Hell their is a random chance that one of the replacement characters like Auffle might get lucky and score a few points so your better off fielding them over these douchebags. That's what we like to call Ausom. I hope you understand what I mean this time.

18 speed only doubles generals on HM. And it has a hard time doubling enemies on Normal as well. He's very reliant on favoritism/transfers to get speed. Their are tricks like early crowning that do help him out and once he has the speed he is pretty good. Anyway aside from proving you wrong in a polite fashion I will say this... Most tier debaters stay out of common topics except to correct certain mistakes like I did above. And they usually do it in a polite fashion. Edit: Also I'd like to address something you may have seen in the new mystery boards. I never once addressed anyone but fellow tier debaters in all of my arguments. For the most we only fight amongst ourselves and only crush those who come into the tier topics and act like interceptor mentioned in situation 2. Edit2: Don't openly challenge tier debaters. Specifically Interceptor. He will crush you effortlessly.