Mitsuki

Of course I think that the person who changed the votals is scum, I thought it was obvious from what I already said. I'm not sure about what you're asking by the second part. I thought votes changing to Breeze didn't make sense, but I guess they do if scum thought some people would vote him based on inactivity. That would clear Breeze, I think. Refa not reacting to my Euklyd vote/case based on interactions with him makes me think I was right about him, in spite of the shitty case. It's definitely not a problem of him not knowing me much because in MLP mafia he tried to WIFOM me as well. I'm also townreading Shinori right now because of him not having Refa as confirmed scum, but rather as likely scum. Scum would clearly have noticed that Refa was claiming scum and act acording to it, I can only see town having doubts about that. I'm not sure who is the vote influencer among Junko and Wen. Green Poet, Paladin and SB are still townreads. I should still check if SB's list was right.

Also, don't ever leave Refa at L-1 because he'll self-hammer. GOD.

##Unvote Why do you guys forget that I'm a doublevoter? It can be seen in some votecounts but others not. Nobody is hammering early, I HAVE STUFF TO SAY.

I'm having Shinori as a nullread now because he's made scummy stuff, but suspicion on Refa doesn't seem like bussing. ##Unvote ##Vote: Refa as there are... 3? 4? votes on him and I won't risk a quickhammer. In MLP:FiM mafia Refa also claimed scum (does he usually do that?) and he painly stated that SB was his scumbuddy, which he was. I feel like there could be a similar case regarding Euklyd this game. Refa implied a couple of times early in the game that Euklyd was his scumbuddy (here). Euklyd made a RVS vote on Refa asking if he was his scumbuddy, which makes me think it's less likely it was random stuff. Still, I don't think this is enough to consider Euklyd as scum. However, I've ISO'd Euklyd. His Sky Paladin vote here is far worse than Shinori's: his only stated reason for suspecting Paladin is that he was ITP hunting, as he didn't think tunneling is scummy. Why would wanting to lynch a claimed ITP be scummy, what would scum be trying to achieve that town wouldn't? Most of what I said about Shinori's Paladin vote applies here better. Other than that he hasn't done much. Euklyd, you said you were townreadin Refa because of rolespec (among other things). Could you elaborate? I think Euklyd is null towards scum. I'll probably think more about this when I sleep. Lynch priority updated is Refa >>> Euklyd > everyone else > Paladin > Green Poet > SB My read on Paladin didn't change, I just didn't list him previously and I don't really know why.

See? I even ended up suggesting a pairing that I didn't like just to help Vhaltz. But he broke my dreams </3

I tried to get Vhaltz to use his loverizer card so hard, but he just wouldn't listen. It's sad.

"Helped" more like almost the entire GP case was mine, but whatever. If you're going to say I contributed do it the right way!

Who is still suspecting you, SB? I'm too lazy to check, asking is much easier.

Nothing new on this post, I'm just replying to stuff. It's early to have a clear lynch priority, but for now it is something like Refa > Shinori > everyone else > Green Poet > SB. I still need to reconsider Shinori now that we know Refa is scum. Those points actually weren't brought up at random and actually make sense if you look at them in context. First point was a reply to Junko and second point was me replying to someone who was asking if what someone said was brought up before. No, it's not bad advice. Way to mess up with all the game if they were crumbing anything when there are better ways of doing it, so I'm discarding that possibility. If they were town waiting for reactions they would have eventually claimed. Now that they haven't it's absolutely clear that they were scum, because all that action did was hurting town, and if something good for town happened because of it it was because we managed to make it.

Paladin, consider SB as an extra player that "is here". There's only a mafia faction (or so I hope) but that doesn't mean there can't be, say, survivors. We could lynch a 3rd party like that, but that would be wasting our lynch when he can leave the game anyways without that, and he can help scumhunt until then. His wincon might not be that of a townie, but that doesn't mean he can't help town meanwhile. Plus he might become town in the way, which is even better. I think he's been helpful so far and I agree with some of the stuff he's said. I guess suspecting him or not comes to whether you believe his claim or not, but I think there's no reason not to believe it. @SB: by the way, do you have to be alive to win according to your current wincon? Paladin, I think you should claim. In spite of what I posted I don't think suspicion on you will just go away that easily.

I've just finished reading the thread, and I have a request to everyone. Please. PLEASE. Please stop posting irrelevant shit. I'm seeing a ton of posts to say thanks/you're welcome, posts JUST to say that they were cut after they were cut, about a full page of posts saying that I'm doublevoter, and people stating their views on everyting over and over when they are not saying anything new. Stop it, it's not helping anyone. It's going to be a pain to read back and understand what's going on just because of those posts you made being all over the place. It's so damn anti-town. Please focus on making your opinions clear and simple. That said, nobody is hammering early, I still have plenty to say and I'm sure that many other people do as well. Here. On Shinori: I had a bad feeling on him when I went to sleep, and his new posts make me think he's scum. His posts overall are filled with needlessy huge quotes and replies that say nothing. I think this is different from people who are spamming, because those people are making many posts, while Shinori is making the normal amount of posts in a game but filling them with everything he can. This is something that scum would be motivated to do, to seem active and contributing. This post contains two examples of what I mean by unuseful replies. His Paladin case (here) is based on the hypothesis that he thinks Paladin is scared of SB and wants specifically him lynched, which is a really weak reason to suspect someone, let alone make him your main suspect and wanting him lynched just because of it. What would Paladin's scum intent be? Scum wouldn't want someone specifical lynched unless there was a good reason for it, so plainly suspecting someone on being scared is wrong. Shinori attempted to explain it based on roles but dismissed it in the same post. I think it's scummy, and not only bad, because I can't get why someone would genuinely bring up those reasons to say someone is scum. The only non-scummy bit of his case is saying that Paladin is saying he's tunneling (which I'm sure was pointed out before). However, to people that say someone is tunelling, it's too early to say someone is tunelling when ~24 hours have passed from the beginning of the game. I think Shinori's Paladin vote is just an easy vote on the easiest wagon ever that nobody will notice is scummy because everybody is focusing on repeating over and over how scummy Paladin is, so why put attention on someone who tries to do the same thing as you. I don't think this is a bus and scum would probably not be bussing their scumbuddies like that if they were going to be lynched just after one of them was killed. If Shinori is scum I think that clears Paladin. This post is also bad. Shinori suspected Refa before, on the first post I linked so I'm guessing he's providing it as evidence to say Refa is scum. If he thought those two posts were relevant why say it in that way and not explain why this makes Refa scummy? It looks like scum trying to point out stuff to get someone suspected, but being unable to explain why that evidence is scummy because it's not, and leaving people to get their own conclusions because of it. @Shinori: could you explain why those two posts say something about Refa's alignment? ##Unvote ##Vote: Shinori I'd like someone (ONE person) to make a summary post on what the case on Paladin is, because it really feels like people are suspecting him on a hard confirmation bias right now. I get that some things can be seen as scummy, but I don't think it confirms him as scum, neither he should be lynched based on that. Specially regarding how the wagon/suspicion grew, and his actions this game don't differ from his town meta (neither from his scum meta) from what I recall. I should probably point out for people who don't remember that my Paladin suspicion was solely PoE on the vote change thing, and I now consider the evidence to think he's town is stronger than that.

Wen's ISO, Elieson posted it a while ago.

Why do people say that I have no posts when I've definitely posted. Euklyd, why did you say Coco would be hard to read if he's new and you haven't played with him before? ##Unvote I can't see Coco as scum because of #297. I'm sure scum wouldn't say that, it'd be too weird. Unless scum actually know everyone else's roles this game for some reason I'm willing to clear him. Wen was the first person to unvote after the votals, so I don't think he's the one who activated the ability and probably not scum either. Scum would probably wait, even if it was just for a while, to see if a quicklynch could be achieved. If Paladin was the one who activated the ability to change votes wagons would have been created at random, since his reaction to seeing a sudden wagon on SB was too genuine for it to be something planned. Still, he's neutral to me according to what I've already read, I could see him do that both as town and as scum. POE says that role was Paladin's but I won't vote when I don't know how votals are right now. I should also check wether there could be someone else around at the time of the voteswitch, as I was there but SB didn't list me (I doubt it because FFM seemed aware their scumbuddies were to be suspected based on activity around the change, but I'll have to check). @mod: requesting votals

I said that votes could be distributed randomly.

Marth, if you don't suspect BBM the least bit what were you trying to achieve by making this post?

I don't really get what you're trying to say/achieve here for the most part, I haven't checked the unvotes and scum could have unvoted anyways after seeing people do so as well. Also it might not be scum's choice to determine who gets wagoned/which votes are moved after using their ability. I don't like this post, it seems like an overreaction but I can't point out why.

By the way, people are working to solve the balance problem so everyone should keep playing.

If the person who made the change in votals is town they should claim NOW. If they claim later I'm going to push a lynch on them, since town wouldn't let people rolespec and be confused this much. That said, This post by FFM makes me think he was trying to blame the role to people who weren't active to divert attention from who has really used it, so whoever used that role was active around that time. Also, this probably means his other scumbuddies have been somehow active as well. I don't think SB is scum and Green Poet's posts look very different and way more townie than they did in last mafia game, so if SB's list of active people at the votecount's time is right it's probably someone among Wen, Paladin and Coco. Marth, do you think BBM is scum?

My vote returned to normal before I even unvoted/voted again. I was here at the time of votals. And yeah, votes on Coco are right. I'm a doublevoter.

Why are you guys posting so much? I'd rather see fewer, longer posts. It's hard to follow the game like this. ##Unvote ##Vote: Coco let's see if this works.

Well, I'd rather have SB as a townie but I believe his claim and I'm willing to let him be as long as he scumhunts. Also, I've just seen the votals and my vote isn't where it's supposed to be. And numbers don't add up. I don't get it. And FFM I've definitely posted, check my ISO to check it if you want. That post you linked has nothing to do with the vote on the post I linked, or at least I can't see how it's related. Question for Coco: have you played/read games before?

I'm not sure which name I should be using for some people. ##Unvote ISOing Paladin led to nothing. ##Vote: Coco She keeps justifying every action she does, telling that it's not relevant, etc. I can see townies saying their actions are bad to an extent, but she worries too much for it to be something coming from town, and it's even worse because it's very early in the game. Is she always like that? This particular post is the worst among them. Her wording regarding Euklyd could be seen like real conviction but inmediately after that she says her reasoning is not good. Why would she choose that wording, then? It seems like scum being unsure of whether voting a townie with certain reasoning could be seen as scummy or not, but wanting to be seen as active and thinking.

Yeah, but he isn't the person I first expected to join.

I didn't expect this game to begin so soon. ##Vote: Sky Paladin I'll make you REGRET joining

Conqueror and Dormio. Specially Dormio.