Mitsuki

I want to join as well~ I prefer to play on SF's lobby!

You're not the same as Randa, Randa plainly gave up and you tried for a while. Sorry if it seemed like I thought about both of you in the same way, since I definitely don't. To be honest, I don't know what I would have done if I had been the one to get outed by roles. Clearing people by Randa's "gambit" was bad. As Refa has said Randa could have put one of his scumbuddies and a townie in the list, which would make as much sense as putting two townies there. I think the right thing to do was to ignore it.

Nope, no giving up unless it's clear that someone is confirmed scum. There might always be a chance to turn things around!

M-team would be awesome <3 I think I'd like to have SB as my buddy, he's fun and I think he's good at being scum. Then he'd bus me forever, get me lynched and I'd go cry in a corner. SO PERFECT Anyone would be fine as long as they wanted to work together and take a reasonsable amount of time to play, to be honest. I'd get so angry if someone claimed scum or self-hammered though.

Town winning by D3, yay \(owo)/ You guys did a great job~ I don't think I contributed to this game much, I was just kind of there. But I'm satisfied I stopped scumreading Shin and Scarlet/FFM, I don't usually stop scumreading town and when I stop scumreading someone it's usually scum. Also I had so many good townreads, since almost everyone in town was so townie. TOWNREADS <3 I think this would have been more interesting if Randa and Kay had made an effort to avoid being lynched, though. I think scum still had chances to win, giving up before trying is not good. Also, you guys and Refa could have tried to find a replacement for Scorri, that's what I would have tried to do if a scumbuddy stopped playing. I'm happy the game's ended right now, I wouldn't have been able to post much during D4 and people would have wanted to lynch me (@_@) I don't like how some people became agressive, you can be angry with someone but still talk about it in a respectful way. I was angry with Eury by the beginning of D1, and we talked about it without hurting each other. Well, at least this is the impression I have of what happened.

Inactives should be modkilled, at least Scorri. It's been ~5 days since she last posted.

(L-1 now)

It's L-2, I believe. ##Vote: Kay

This post is just replies. @Eclipse: On Shin: I brought up more points than that. The fallacy's content itself was bad but that wasn't the scummy part, so I never thought about explaining it. The fallacy I was talking about is Tu quoque, basically trying to say something is not bad because the person who's brought that up has done something similar as well. On your Refa vote: I thought your vote was bad and I still think so. However, I thought that it made you town after seeing Refa was scum, which I explained. Scum could do something like that to vote for town, which was my point, but I don't see scum bussing their scumbuddies like that. On Eury: I don't think you understood what I meant here, I'll try to explain it better: Eury had already done enough to give everyone the impression that she wanted a D1 lynch, that's null. But the fact that she told Refa to selfvote like that is what makes me think she's town. Scum wouldn't tell their scumbuddies to selfvote when shutting up is also an option, unless they were trying to break assocative reads/WIFOM, but the way Eury worded it and the fact that people wouldn't think about that in such a stressful situation makes me think she's town. @Marth: On "defending" Refa: I really did not see what was so scummy about him. I've read/played in 4 games where he was playing, and I've townread him in all of them. He's been scum (3 times mafia, 1 SK) in ALL of those games. I didn't say that I was townreading him because I know I'm terrible at reading him and tried to ignore the townread, but yeah, I was townreading him again. I can link to places where I've said that I thought he was town in previous games if you want. I explained why I thought it probably came from scum. It was "only" one point, yeah, that's why it wasn't the same as my strongest reads and I still doubted. But you can't say that you don't understand why I thought he was scummy if I explained it. If you don't understand what I meant, tell me and I'll clarify. Usually I expect to have several points in my case. I only brought up one point against Randa, so I obviously knew it wasn't that strong. Still, it was strong enough to make me suspect him, I agreed with some of the points that people said against him and since I thought Shin and Scarlet/FFM (my main reads D1) were town, I voted for him. It was quite obvious that Randa was getting lynched at that stage when he got so many votes early in the day. Personally I think scum would want to bring up more points than only a weak point against a scumbuddy on the edge of being lynched, so as to look as if they had contributed to the lynch. There was no point on saying that my vote was weak if what I wanted was to bus him.

I don't think it's bad to put an inactive player and an active and contributing player in the same category, really. Being active doesn't automatically make you townie, in nobody's eyes. I'm quite sure that Boron is town for other reasons, but if Elieson doesn't think the same and thinks he might be the SK or is just trying to pull off something to survive that's fine as well. Let's say that he really believes there's a chance, even if it's small, of Boron being the SK. He has the right to think so, and even if you try hard to convince someone that you're town sometimes it just won't work. Mafia is just that kind of game. If you think that's scummy of him you can always point it out, of course. I know that Elieson's attitude has been bad, I said so myself. But even if someone gets agressive responding in a similar way won't solve things. Sometimes, even if you feel it's unfair, you have to be the one to give in (I don't know if this is the right word) so that the other person gets calm and you can talk about things without hurting each other. I hope this doesn't sound as if I'm saying it's someone's fault in particular. What I think is that this kind of problems are the result of an interaction, not of one person's attitude.

Strengths: Not getting lynched as town, ever Weaknesses: too much or too little confidence. It's hard for me to find meaningful content. I kind of wish my reads were better too, but I think I'm kind of average in that sense.

I don't think it was scummy of Elie to mention that Boron could be a 3rd party, altough Boron's reaction makes me think he's town. Boron, even if you put a lot of effort in a game it doesn't mean everyone will be able to get a read on you. I pay attention to the stuff you say (as well as the stuff everyone says), but sometimes it's hard to read a certain player. You were null to me (not mafia though) until I considered your reaction just now. It doesn't mean you're forgettable, it just means that you're not easy to read for someone.

Well, I was on the edge of being lynched at least 3 times \(owo)/ And I usually get very nervous when people suspect me, even if it's just a bit. I don't think I played well, I townread 2/3 mafia players and my only good scumread was you.

D4: A game where the setup design doesn't guarantee a fair victory for at least one of the factions involved. D5: It probably doesn't count because I was just posting random stuff on Vhaltz's QT/messaging him random stuff, but I really enjoyed ITTD. I didn't have to care about writing nor reading but I was allowed to talk about the game if I felt like it. Basically I could have fun with whatever I felt like and nobody would ever care. I only had 3 reads (2 scumreads 1 townread), but I didn't care about getting more and they ended up being right. Even if Vhaltz didn't end up using the loverizer (which he should have) bugging him about the pairings he should choose was a lot of fun, too. Out of SF, I really enjoyed I Wanna Be the Sereliest on MotK because it was my first serious forum mafia game and even if it was really stressful I really felt involved. I don't usually care much about what I do nor find it particulary enjoyable, so it was nice to care so much about something. D6: People who I'm friends with and who I can easily townread, it would feel less lonely.

PoE says 4th scumteam member is either Elie or Scorri. Interactions with Randa make me think it's Elie after all. Randa kind of defended Elie and Refa (and Kay to an extent) during D1, he didn't give reads on them other than null but he attacked other people's cases on them. I think that's what scum would do when they want to defend their scumbuddies. Scorri's slot should be modkilled or something, I'm guessing she requested a replacement because it's been 4 days since she last posted. I agree with Boron, Elieson seems to be trying to spread suspicion, which is what I'd expect scum to do now that two scumteam members are dead and, assuming Kay is scum as well, scum need several mislynches to win. Also, his content has been really weak all game until today. I don't know how Elie is as town, but Elie is usually so nice, this agressive attitude feels wrong in a scummy way. I've seen really nice people become totally different while being suspected as scum, and if I've ever seen nice people be like that as town I don't recall. I'm inclined to think this is a scumtell, I don't know Elie that much but from the little I've seen I think he's one of the nicest people I know. Cheers, Elie. Don't let this make you feel angry; after all, it's just a game and the only influence it will have on you is the one you choose to assume. However, I wouldn't be surpirsed if Scorri was scum instead of Elie, she didn't do much while she was still playing.

Okay, I'll reply to new stuff. If you guys want me to reply to something old just tell me. To be honest, it was probably a good thing in terms of activity for me for D2 to end early, since this weekend I've been really busy. I don't know what to say about my Scarlet suspicion, I just thougt that he was scum so I wanted to point out all the scummy stuff he was doing. I don't see what's supposed to seem forced. My vote changed from Shin to Scarlet and so on because of several reasons, all of which I stated in the posts I made. Basically I was confident that both were scum, but I kept changing opinions on which was the best thing to do with my vote. On numbers: Marth said it was possible for the scumteam to be 5p and I was quite confident it is a 4p scumteam based on what I've said, so I thought about replying. I never included numbers on a case, it was setup speculation.

I'm assuming this game's scumteam is composed of 4 players given that Randa cited two people as his remaining scumbuddies. Still, I don't know who the 4th scum member would be. I don't think Poly is scum because of how Refa was pushing him. It's entirely different from his Randa suspicion, you can see that Refa really wanted to get Poly lynched (a good example is this post near D1 deadline) and tried to do stuff to achieve so, while his Randa suspicion was simply there in spite of him being his "second strongest scumread". I don't think Eury is scum either. Again, interactions with Refa. I don't think Refa's scumbuddy would tell them to selfvote like she did (here), and I'm quite sure it's not WIFOM because it was one minute before the deadline and everyone was stressed back then. Moreover, I don't think scum would think about WIFOMing everyone at that precise moment. Also I agree on Msrth being town, he's given me town vibes for a while (which I've tried to ignore this game, since wrong gut townreads have messed up my reads many games before) and I don't think scum would bring up those role shenanigans to get a lynch on town, nor it looks like a bus. @Marth: I don't really feel like answering to your suspicion on me. Do you want me to reply anyways, or do you prefer me to focus on posting new content and judge from that?

I don't see why people think that I'm not going to be here and do stuff. When I went back home D2 had already ended and D3 begun a while after I went to sleep. I have no idea on what are the role shenanigans that make Kay a suspect. However, this post makes me think she's scum. It looks like scum knowing they've been caught and thinking that their only way out of the situation is a 1vs1 against the person who's got results on them. There's no confidence in the vote, and I think that town would either give a confident (as usual) vote if they thought those role shenanigans are a fake or try to discuss what they've done if they think that those results are real but interpreted the wrong way. I don't like her first D3 vote on Shinori either. Why would town prodvote someone this late in the game? It looks like scum not knowing where to place their vote. I don't think Shinori's the player who needs to elaborate on content the most as well. Also, her last post is terrible, in a scummy way. Why Shinori and not Marth if her vote was changed, shouldn't Marth be the scummiest? Also that's not a real defense, it's just spreading suspicion on another player to avoid being noticed. The fact that her Shinori suspicion is just based on prodding him for content makes it worse. Now that I'm here, players who are here as well and waiting for me to answer stuff they've brought up should say they're here. That way I'll answer to what they've said first.

I need to reread, answer and reconsider stuff and now I don't have time for that. I think Eclipse is town because of her switch to Refa here, scum wouldn't go and try to bus their scumbuddies by making them a viable wagon (Refa had 2 votes before that) just because of a post. Also, there were other lynch candidates at the moment. I don't think FFM would go and claim ascetic if he was scum since Scarlet didn't, but I'm sure that he'd do so as town. BBM's feedback for him in ICBINSFMM4 told him that he should have claimed ascetic, here. I didn't even read all of that but I guessed it'd happen. I'll vote Randa, the point I brought up against him isn't that strong, but I agree with the stuff that's being said about him. ##Vote: Randa

A couple of alternatives if this happens another time (which I hope it doesn't): - Give a small time extend. It doesn't have to be much, I think half an hour is enough. - Try to put the deadline at a convenient time for most players. I count 4 players from Europe in the game for D1 and the deadline was going to catch many of us sleeping. Please don't interpret this as me saying someone is at fault. I'm just trying to look for solutions. I think it'd be a good idea to change the time for the deadline D2.

Shin, you've done stuff, I just expected way more. But why are you replying to me instead of trying to avoid your lynch/bringing up more stuff to lynch scum, and also that quickly after my post. I don't even agree that stuff is a contradiction to be honest but let's say it is: Is one contradiction enough to keep suspecting Poly for so long? I get that there were three contradictions on your initial case, but one was a mistake, as you said, and one was a question which I still don't see as a contradiction. It feels like you were pretending your case was much stronger than it actually was, and it's also scummy to suspect someone on so little for so long. What I meant is: instead of wanting your case understood when someone raises some questioning about it, you just accept it and don't care about changing the situation. You've said that you'll only clarify if asked, which is scummy because town would actually care for their reads by themselves, not only about being questioned by other people. It's clear that you don't care about them. But they clearly said that your reads weren't well explained. It's even in what you quote. This just proves you're making stuff up. Also, what I said earlier. It's not a lose-lose situation, definitely, and I'm not talking about your personality either. I've already stated and explained that your concern (being affected but trying to seem unaffected) seemed like scum concern. Town can be concerned but it'd be different. Also both town and scum can panic. I pointed out that Scarlet's replies seemed neutral, but now that I've actually elaborated on them this all it feels scummy. This is definitely the lynch I want. Last post for today, it's already too late and I haven't even checked which classes I have to attend to tomorrow.

A small summary of my case on Scarlet (full case here): he unvotes his RVS vote without having a new person to vote, he places his vote on Poly and keeps it for a long time while not having much reasoning on him other than some "contradictions", and he shows a lack of commitment towards his case. He's also shown what I interpret as scum concern. @SB: No, I didn't. Also I hate saying "I still think x and x are scum and I'm null on everybody else". It makes me feel dumb. I should probably say that I claimed vanilla on my only scum game.

I'm angry at Shin because he's doing absolutely nothing to prevent his lynch altough he appears (or at least appeared) to be checking the thread quite often. I've been waiting for him to do something all the afternoon/night so far to see if his calm attitude was due to him giving up as scum or him being town but now I feel like I need to make a decision and I won't be able to factor in this reasoning. ##Unvote I've read Shin's ISO over and over and I've also tried to form some idea of Shin's meta in my head. Discarding that his posting style is very different from the usual (being passive overall), which is not alignment indicative: What I saw in Semi-Precious Mafia, where he was scum, was that he tried to throw dirt at other players when he had the opportunity while giving an alternative on how it could come from town as well. He would say stuff like "This has two explanations: the most likely, which is town, and the other, which is so scummy". He's definitely not doing that this game and he's being consistent with his reads. In I-don't-remember-which-game, where he was town, he also seemed more sarcastic than in Semi-Precious, altough not as much as in this game. ##Vote: Scarlet This is my strongest read now. I know not many people are voting him right now, but I don't recall anybody giving up their suspicion, just them finding other people scummier. I think this is still a viable lynch. I have to add that I compared his town and scum recent games to his play this game and I feel like his play is more similar to his scum play. His play this game and the other two games is very different though, so it's hard to compare. On Refa's wagon, I don't see what's so scummy about him. There's also the fact that Eclipse's vote was really bad; as Refa already pointed out, he was replying to stuff, not filling an irrelevant post to seem active. I think this was quite obvious but I don't know how to interpret what Eclipse did, and I'll think about it in the future. I'm going to sleep soon, please tell me now if you have some stuff for me to answer.

Well, SB, maybe other people know what kind of claims are scum claims and town claims, but I don't. I get people have said stuff on it but I can't go and sheep it if I know scum can claim vanilla as well. Also I don't get why I should bring up so much more content after ISOing people, I already tried to pay attention to the thread when I was reading it for the first time. And it's usually really hard for me to find scummy stuff, specially D1. I've actually had a great D1 in regards to content compared to P3 and MLP:FiM mafia.

Eury, the reason why BBM changed his read on me was that the only reason he mentioned I could be scum was my lack of content, and I posted content a few minutes before he posted his post.