Mitsuki

Could someone tell me the name of a game where Shin was town? Same for Scarlet.

The fact that your replies don't seem scummy doesn't mean that I agree with them nor that they feel townie.

I've been ISOing lurkers/main wagons. This is the only thing that I have to add: I don't like this because it feels like Randa expects his vote could be somehow invalidated, which probably comes from scum as scum know their cases aren't genuine. It's mainly because of the "still" part, otherwise it'd be a perfectly normal statement. I don't think Shin's claim is townie or scummy. Shin > Scarlet >> Randa > lurkers > everyone else

No they're not? I've played way more games where I haven't been a hydra with him than games where I have. I'd love to roll loverizer, just to ship people together. Then I'd end up using it the proper way anyways because I'd be sorry if I screwed up the game for everybody just because of that wwwwwwwwwwww

I haven't reread nor reconsidered, but my priorities now would be Shin > Scarlet >>> lurkers > anyone else I'm willing to give Scarlet a bit more of time since I think some of the points I brought up against him will become more telling with time, and his replies to my case didn't feel scummy while Shin's replies made me increase my suspicion. I still think Scarlet's scum though. Shinori is null now that he's replied to my case on him. I didn't get it was a joke. ##Unvote ##Vote: Shin By the way, I won't be here for the deadline.

I've only been scum once and it didn't really count, so I can't give an accurate opinion on this, but I think I'd like to be scum much more than town. First of all, I love to know I can rely in other people and to unite our efforts towards a goal in common. It just seems so wonderful to be able to share a goal in common and work towards it together. Being town usually feels lonely. Second, coming up with creative strategies to overcome any challenges sounds like a lot of fun. And finally, I like to lie. I don't do this unless it's really required because it's not right to manipulate people, but in the context of a game it seems like fun! Being town is fun, but sometimes it gets frustrating when I feel like I can't come up with any good reads, and being on the edge of being lynched is too stressful. However, hydraing with Vhaltz while being town or being neighbours/masons with someone cool is the best. I really like commenting the game on a more individual level. I think my preference would be something like this: town hydra/neighbour/mason (with someone cool) > scum > town = ITP I've never rolled ITP and it kind of feels like it'd be quite similar to being town for me, maybe easier. I'm not usually lynched nor nightkilled, and I'd want to scumhunt anyways.

Yeah, but: do you think scum would contradict themselves in the exact same line? This doesn't explain why you would point out such stuff as scummy. It doesn't invalidate your vote, of course. But I think that you didn't have any real reason to place your vote anyways. The pressure vote stuff just seems like an attempt to justify the vote after you've made it, but say that I believe it: Why is your main read just a pressure vote? It just makes my point about you being unable to come up with reasoning stronger. Why are the demands others have about your case all you're caring about? I think town would have a motivation to make their case well understood, while scum wouldn't. This actually gives support to my point about your lack of commitment towards your cases. Also, nobody would call you overeager if you gave an explanation on your case by then, and if they did they'd be dumb. I don't think it's unfair to use the reasoning I've brought up. Maybe I didn't use the correct wording, what I meant is that you seemed kind of angry but frustrated as well, but in a certain way, like when you want to hit someone but that someone doesn't even know and you're trying to remain calm. It's probably the worst explanation ever, but I hope you get what I mean. There are different kinds of concern. When you are concerned about stuff that is being brought up against you but you try to seem unaffected (it's not exactly like this, but it's the best way I can explain) it is scum concern, because it shows a willingness to hide the fact that you're worrying, and town wouldn't have a reason to do so unless, say, they were insecure people or something. I don't think you're like that. On the opposite, scum would want to hide they're concerned because they know that the reason they're concerned is because what is being brought up against them is true.

I should stop delaying writing this or else I will keep being cut and it won't be fun. I don't know if this has been brought up before, but just in case: Scarlet's unvote here seemed weird to me. I get that he voted someone half an hour later, but why would he be concerned about keeping his RVS vote for a while longer? I think scum would tend to do this more than town, as they might fear being suspected because of keeping their vote in spite of having posted non-RVS reasoning already. The stuff he quotes and answers on Poly in this post is entirely questions to Poly and pointing out bad play, yet he places his vote based on it. The only thing that I see could be interpreted as scummy is the "contradiction" but there's no explanation as of why scum and not town would contradict themselves like that and it's not obvious from reading the stuff he's quoted. Overall Scarlet's Poly case is unecessarily filled with quotes that actually give no clue on why Poly would be scum and it just makes it look like a huge case with reasoning behind it when there's not. It's scummy and not just bad because scum would be interested in being seen as active and contributing so as to avoid being suspected based on it, and scum would have a hard time coming up with actual believable stuff as well. His reply here also gives me scum vibes. I don't think town would just be ok with people saying their case is weak, and if they were told something they said was not properly explained they'd probably try to help the person to understand the reasons behind their case better (either by explaining again, telling them to read it again...). Such a reply doesn't show commitment towards one's reads. The answer feels unecessarily passive agressive as well, and it shows that he's concerned about the stuff that's being brought up against him while trying to seem unaffected. It's kind of similar to what I pointed out about Shin. When I read the thread this morning I thought that the stuff I had on Scarlet was stronger than the stuff I had on Shin, but I'm not sure anymore; Shin's reaction towards my vote felt scummy, and I kind of see his vote as an OMGUS justified as a vote to get "answers". I also don't get why he would justify it beforehand if what he wanted was to pressure me. It seems like scum knowing their vote is scummy and wanting to prevent people from pointing it out. However, ##Unvote ##Vote: Scarlet I think my vote will be more useful here.

No, my read change on SB had its reasons and I already explained them before. To say that someone is scum because of being in the main wagon is wrong, specially when it's so early in the day. There should always be a reason to back up why scum would make such a movement, otherwise it's not telling (as an example, you could argue that scum would want to avoid the main wagon when it's early in the day to avoid being suspected based on it). I don't feel that the points you bring up give such an explanation. And seriously, you can disagree with what I say as much as you want and say I'm scummy because of it, but stop saying I have no reasons to do the stuff I do. It's wrong, I've already stated them. To me it felt like you were pointing out bad (according to your point of view) stuff instead of scummy stuff.

@Shin: I don't know what else I have to explain, I thought it was quite clear from what I already said. I wasn't that convinced about SB earlier, but you know, saying such a thing while placing the vote would be useless. I wanted to know what SB would reply as well. I also don't see how one post can't be enough to change my opinion. Does SB necessarily have to write a lot while I refuse to agree with his points until I finally change my mind? I get that sometimes it's necessary, but this time it wasn't. I don't get why cases based on wording would be weak, to me it feels way stronger than other kinds of cases. If I've played with you before I don't remember, sorry. It takes me a while to "realise people exist". I do remember SB though, I've played a few games with him already since he plays on MotK too. I'm not sure why you're bringing up your meta here, though. Then again, you have me listed in your lynch priorities, even if that's not the reason for your vote. What exactly did you think was scummy and why? It's not clear from what you've already said.

Good thing I can post stuff while everyone else is sleeping, it makes me so nervous to see that new posts keep appearing while I'm making mine... ##Unvote I think SB is town. His reply to my case felt very genuine as opposed to what I'd expect from scum!SB, and I understood why he's doing the stuff he's doing. As for why associative reads are bad when none of the players have flipped, it's simply a matter of statistics. It's much more unlikely that you'll find a link between two players than a player being scum. Eury, I won't play any victim card nor I do have any problem with you (If I did it'd be obvious). I plainly stated what I felt. I think you misunderstood what I wanted to say. Sorry for not wording it properly, what I meant is that Elieson's test didn't make him scum, not that it made him town. With regards to claiming town, I was trying to WIFOM Vhaltz (and not anyone else) to make him think I was scum because of some previous stuff we talked about. I can explain it if you want. Still, I'm quoting this because the "willing to bet you rolled scum" feels scummy to me. As seen in Shinori's lynch priority in the bottom of this post he doesn't have me listed in spite of saying so. Why did he say it, then? If he really believed in what he said I'd expect him to at least try to analyze my posts and give some read on me (even if it's a nullread), which he hasn't done because he doesn't mention me again. Some of the points he brings up about other players in the post I linked seem weak to me as well. Mostly this one: I went back to read what Shin had said about me and I clearly saw it was a joke. I don't think it seemed like he had such a big scumread on me either, to me it didn't seem like he was scumreading me at all. It also feels like Shinori is saying a personal posting style is scummy, which is plainly wrong. Still, I don't think what I pointed out is that strong, so I'd say Shinori is null towards scum. I don't like the sarcasm here, it feels like scum anger. Shin is trying to discredit the points that are brought up against him with a personal attack. I see town getting frustrated as well, but I expect the reaction to be different; something that gives more the feeling that they aren't concerned about what people are thinking about them other than being frustrated because, after all, they know they're town. In that sense, this is exactly the opposite. This is a fallacy and therefore bad but it also gives me scum vibes. It's similar to the previous quote, it's trying to discredit the attacker with non legit reasons. I expect town would leave this kind of thing out of their answer and focus on explaining the reasoning behind whatever they were being suspected for instead. I still have more stuff to analyze/say so I might change my vote if I feel it's stronger. Still, this is already long enough, so: ##Vote: Shin SB is voting Shin as well, right? GOOD.

It was a joke? Also read all of what I say and not just whatever you can point out as scummy, you'll see that I said that I don't think SB would be bussing at that time, so I wasn't applying the strategy thing. You even quoted it... I kind of agreed with SB's reasoning, but I didn't think it was very strong. I wouldn't have voted if not for the sake of the joke, though. How you've talked to me kind of angers me, I don't think we've ever talked and you already feel like you can treat me like that? I get it's your posting style but you should really stop it. I don't like how Eury seems to be trying to paint me as scummy by what I see as misinterpretations of the facts. Is Eury usually like this? From what I recall she likes to post a lot of not-so-strong stuff. I don't recall misinterpretations though, but I might be biased because this time it concerned me. I was keeping my vote because I had no scumreads. I don't like this post and this post by SB. I think it's scummy to say someone is scum like that because you don't really give any reasoning for it, which is easy and something scum would tend to do, as it's harder to come up with convincing wordings for the stuff they say. Also, it attempts to give the feeling of being casual with the game. Regarding the second post, SB explained it here, but it still lacks the reasoning on why it would be scummy, it's just pointed out as something "interesting". Also, associative reads when none of the players have flipped and this early in the game are bad. Overall, SB's coming up with good reasoning most times (neutral) but other times it just feels like he's trying to paint people as scummy. ##Unvote ##Vote: SB Also, is Shin usually like that? He seems to be taking this game very easy and making jokes all the time, and I don't know if that's scum trying to seem casual about what they're doing or just his posting style. I hope I don't sound disrespectful because that's not my intention. SB, I don't think Shin is suspecting me.

My vote was mostly a joke, but since SB is a good player when he's town and likes bussing his scumteam when he's scum I think it's a valid strategy to sheep him. I don't think he'd be bussing his scumteam at that point though. I think I misunderstood something, but at some point I thought there could be several different colors for the "town x" thing, as I recalled it being blue for me while others were talking about green and black, and thought I could get some reads based on that. Then I went back to check and I saw it was green. By the way, Elieson already answered me. I don't get why anybody would answer that scum might have fakes when you ask them if you can talk about the color of your PM. What did you ask exactly? Also, what do you mean about scum being unaware about the wincon bit? I mean, I get what you're saying, but why do you think it's relevant? SB, I thought your Refa vote was at least somehow serious and not entirely RVS, as you gave a reason for it and explained the logic behind it afterwards.

Will I ever stop being town? ##Vote: Refa Sheeping SB for best strategy. Town wincon is usually/always colored blue in SF, right? I don't think Elieson is scum because of asking about wincon color if it's usually a different color than his own. There's still something I don't get though; Elie: Why did you ask Marth and not someone else?

I didn't roll scum not even once... orz

/in I might have to sub out at some point, specially if signups take too long.

Apparently Vhaltz and I will have to hydra after all, at least this days. It doesn't let you login from two different computers with the same IP. That or Vhaltz has played Epicmafia in all the computers at his home... which I doubt.

We played on different slots once, in my first game. It was a disaster and we both agreed to never do it again.

Vhaltz don't steal my unclaimed slot (ò___ó)

I know a 100% accurate scumtell for Vhaltz but I'm only willing to trade it for INFORMATION

Paladin, why did you use the vote changing ability like that D1? (o___o) This game was painful because too many people were posting non-content posts constantly. Now that the game is over I'd like you to consider spamming less in the next games, as if you keep this up you'll be killing some townies' motivations and only scum will benefit from that. I couldn't really follow what was going on in this game and I had no motivation to properly read +10 new pages of spam when I woke up/came back home. I did terrible, and part of it was due to the spam. I would have liked to contribute more, even if what I said was wrong, but I couldn't. I couldn't even bring myself to ISO properly some people just because of the spam, and I didn't even reread the thread.

Refa is not self hammering? What a disappointment. ##Vote: Refa

Why?

I don't really know about Euklyd. Stuff I pointed out is here + Refa not trying to WIFOM it.

Then it's Junko. And the other scum member is Euklyd. Wouldn't it be wonderful if it was true? However, I think there's still much thinking to be done. I don't think we're getting to use the time left on this phase. I'll hammer before I go to sleep if it's fine, in about... 7? hours if nobody disagrees (Refa is at L-2, I believe. Don't put him at L-1). I'd rather lynch Junko before Wen just because I hate his spam posts, but whatever. I also don't recall anything he's done aside from spamming (some of which seems like buddying), going with the flow and voting for popular opinions/FFM with no reasoning. So now that I think about it, I don't really get why people say Wen is scummier. Like, really. Wen, Junko, who do you think is scum and why?