Jump to content

Ownagepuffs

Member
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    2,537

  • Joined

  • Last visited

 Content Type 

Posts posted by Ownagepuffs

    Emmeryn's Sacrifice

    in Fire Emblem: Awakening

    Posted

    It is a shame that you didn't go with your gut on this one.

    But then who would correct you when you are wrong?

    The events that bookend the images don't matter in particular: I was making the simple point that the game uses sunlight in CGs like a toddler uses tomato sauce on her face. It is so heavily and indiscriminately applied (I gave two particularly stark examples, but there are more), that it diminishes the argument that Emmeryn got the treatment for any one particular purpose. The person ignoring context in this case... is you.

    No, they do. You do realize that context is collective, don't you? The accompanying dialogue and the events which preceded and proceeded those image are exactly what context is about. Every CG in Awakening is meant to give off an impression. It does not do so simply by showing you an image, it does so with the entirety of the scene. Music, dialogue, and the events surrounding the image are important. You are blatantly disregarding these things for the convenience of your argument. Emmeryn's CG and Walhart's CG give entirely different impressions and you know it. Do not warp or ignore context as you see fit.

    I believe that I subverted this point and threw it back into your face. If the dialogue of characters are the messages of "the game", then Chrom's argument with Emmeryn at the end of Chapter 7 is the ultimate refutation of the idea that she is some sort of flawless paragon. He called her plan "terrible", right to her face, and not a single person confronted him on that. And he was later proven to be right about it.

    Here you go ignoring context. Again. "Be selfish for once in your life!" changes the entire direction of their argument. Chrom wasn't confronting Emm because she had a stupid plan, he was confronting Emm because she was being too selfless. It's obvious by the choice of music in the scene that the game was trying to instill a sense of sorrow or sympathy in the viewer. This is why I stated a simple text reference is not enough. One needs to see the scene in its entirety in order to fully understand it. And her plan ended up working in the end. Chrom and pragmatism? Wrong. Emmeryn and idealism? Right. This was the message of that scene.

    It's irrelevant that the outcome of Chapter 10 was exactly the same as it would have been had Emm not made a speech before taking a flying leap? The take-away from the Chapter was the following:

    - The penalty for insubordination is death.

    - Gangrel is a monster that would retaliate by murdering someone's family.

    - A soldier's loyalty to his commander was greater than Emmeryn's words.

    They established a secondary reason for Plegians to desert, and showed the limitations of Emm's powers, but somehow this proves that Emm's sacrifice was glorified? The end result in Chapter 10 was that Chrom's crew still got attacked!

    No, the take away was that Emmeryn had reached the hearts of the Plegian military. Are you forgetting why Chrom was attacked? It was because they chose to fight.

    Mustafa

    Ylisseans! I offer you mercy! Surrender to me now and live!

    Basilio

    Surrender? Sorry, I'm not familiar with the word.

    Mustafa

    Emmeryn would not have wished for this to come to bloodshed.

    Chrom

    Don't speak her name!

    Mustafa

    Your rage is justified, Prince Chrom. But the meaning of your sister's final sacrifice was not lost on me. I suspect many Plegians who heard her final words would say the same. If you lay down your weapons, I vow to protect you as best I can.

    Frederick

    How can we trust you after what your barbarous king has done? I think we shall take our chance with weapons in hand!

    Mustafa

    I suspected you would say as much. So be it, Prince Chrom. I shall endeavor to grant you a swift and dignified end.

    Must I point out to you the most important line in their little coversation?
    Mustafa

    Your rage is justified, Prince Chrom. But the meaning of your sister's final sacrifice was not lost on me. I suspect many Plegians who heard her final words would say the same. If you lay down your weapons, I vow to protect you as best I can.

    Guess what this is. It's called foreshadowing. And the soldier who was about to turn? A microcosm of the events that would proceed this chapter. You have missed the entire point of that chapter. Emmeryn was the focal point of this chapter, as it was the chapter directly after her sacrifice. The name of the song that plays in the chapter was a reference to Emm.

    Never mind that the specifics of her sacrifice having an effect were never in dispute: look at my comments on Page 1 of this thread. It obviously had an effect, but the key points here are that 1) there was also another reason for the mass desertion, and 2) her decision was actually a good one for once, and thus worthy of note. Everything else leading up to that? Not so much.

    What exactly is this secondary reason? They chanted her name and deserted simultaneously. Emmeryn alone was the reason for their change of heart. If there is another reason that is even half as important as Emm's sacrifice, you're going to have to show it to me.

    This is terrible logic.

    Emm decided to go back to Ylisstol after the facts on the ground changed (Cordelia's news), and after Chrom repeatedly and with much passion argued against the point. Talking Chrom out of charging into Plegia? That just required people pointing out that he needed to act wisely: he readily agreed to let Robin come up with a strategy.

    Emm's stubbornness -- if that's what it really is -- is certainly a flaw of hers in this situation.

    The point is not that Emmeryn is flawless, but that the game chooses to ignore her flaws and paint her a saint despite her bad decisions.

    And stupid. Regardless of how "the game" paints Emm's decision, "the game" then immediately shows that Yisstol fell and that she was captured in the process. You can't tell me that it doesn't mean anything that immediately after a conflict between Chrom and Emm, Chrom was show to be in the right.

    Well I guess you could, because it's not against the rules to be wrong, but you get my meaning.

    Cute. Ylisse was doomed to fall because it had been overrun by Gangrel long before Emm returned. It would have been taken over regardless of her decision. You are attributing the temporary fall of Ylisse to Emm's return when it was actually a result of Emm's departure. Hell it seems to me that getting kidnapped was actually part of Emmeryn's plan. I don't see what else she thought she was going to accomplish by walking into the military that just roflstomped the capital.

    And as I said before, the solution to the problem also goes right back to Chrom. Who ultimately ended Plegia's aggression for good? Was it Emmeryn? No, it was Chrom and his Shepherds, and rather violently at that (and they did it AGAIN in Valm). If "the game" is making the point that Emm is some kind of Christ-figure, and "the game" is also undermining her character and her ideals at the same time, where exactly does that leave her overall?

    [spoiler=THE SHOCKING ANSWER]It leaves her as a flawed character in a crappy story.

    ---> The point

    ---> Your head

    Do you know how victory was made possible against Plegia? Because Gangrel's troops laid down their arms en masse thanks to Emm's sacrifice. The game still glorifies Emm's ideologies because even after her death the bad guys are the guys who don't agree with her. Her death was used to make the bad guys seem even badder. Gangrel laughing at Emm's death? Walhart calling her weak? They must be the bad guys. This goes back to the black and white morality of Awakening. Chrom essentially takes up a crusade to uphold her ideals through violence. It's contradictory, and part of the reason Chrom is considered an asshat (poor guy, a victim of Awakening's terrible writing). Nevermind the third arc where he would rather make the world suffer again somewhere down the line than give up Robin, but that's a different matter.

    I'll concede that her sacrifice was the only sensible decision she made but it could have been avoided. The annoying part is that the game expects you to forget all the stupid shit she did leading up to the sacrifice. One is to forget her terrible decisions because it was part of her plan all along and it worked out in the end because she basically said "Stop fighting." and leapt. Her ideologies were immortalized through her Christ-like sacrifice. Maybe there was something stirring up in Plegia with Emmeryn's fall being the last straw, but we'll never know because Awakening doesn't know how to build its own world.

    But this all goes back to a very good point someone made earlier in the thread (Crimean I believe). Awakening expects you to feel, not think.

    Starting the Japan-only titles; which should I play first?

    in General Fire Emblem

    Posted

    I definitely agree that it's weird and deviates from the franchise norm about as much as FE2 does, but I don't agree on it being weird in a good way... Because I think it's weird in the "is this even an FE game or is it something else entirely" way.

    Personally, I don't like slogging through chapters that'd easily bore me to sleep, and chapter 2 just stands out in that regard, which is why I mentioned it. Not that I think the rest of the game's much better, mind you.

    FE4's got a good soundtrack, but too bad that's about all I feel it has going for it :smug:

    tumblr_m0dztpJ2ck1r2jdrto1_500.jpg

    What is your favorite/least favorite class costume design?

    in Fire Emblem: Awakening

    Posted

    I'm still scratching my head as to how those pantsless female riders aren't having their legs fall off from all the chafing. It's not just unnecessary fanservice or even a bad idea in combat, it's flat out not humanly possible.

    Oh, if individual character designs count, DLC!Micaiah's artist should be fired. I'm not too happy with DLC!Celica either, and DLC!Roy looks like a generic RPG hero.

    On the topic of DLC I gotta hand it to DLC Katarina. She really looks badass. Oh wait, wasn't it Awakening's original artist that drew her? I love his art. I think the characters designs in this game are straight up amazing buuut the Armor itself is severely lacking.

    DLC Ephraim is great too.

    The Pairing Thread

    in Fire Emblem: Awakening

    Posted · Edited by Ownagepuffs

    Shoutouts to Czar_Yoshi for being on the ball.

    I heard Sniper x Sage was actually good, especially if the Sniper had Ignis and i suddenly thought of my Noire x Brady. Would Sniper!Noire x Sage!Brady outclass DarkFlier!Noire x Sage!Brady? Dat 3 range Celica's Gale tho, and the awesomeness of Sniper Noire.

    In terms of damage, Dark Flier x Sage would outclass Sniper x Sage. Odds are the damage would be overkill anyway (assuming you've got your Limit Break/Aggressor/Rallies) so the only real loss from rocking Sniper x Sage is the loss of movement compared to having a Dark Flier. But 3 Range Celica is still pretty sweet.

    Also thinking of benching Lucina and Gerome just because i hate my Frederick!Gerome now, and maybe i can use those extra slots for more Staffbots or Lucina paired with Avatar A rank.

    Hold on now, you can't bench Lucina. She's the murder machine. Even if you dislike Freddy!Gerome, Lucina x Gerome is still a 100% DS couple and you shouldn't let that go to waste. S rank > A rank.

    And do rallybots/staffbots need their stats capped other than magic? Because im having a hard time maxing out their stats.

    Also what is the best class for Rallybot Horace? Sage or Wyvern Lord?

    Rally bots don't need any stats besides Mov. Staffbots would like to have capped magic, but the Falcon Knight's 35 Mag should be enough. This is why I like using logbook avatars from previous playthroughs. They usually have close to capped magic and are easy to train.

    Not pairings, but the standard build for kids with GF is GF, proc, proc/agg, LB, faire, right? What do I do for Cynthia and Severa without Aether, Ignis, or Agg? Would it be worthing switching Chrom!Brady and Henry!Cynthia to fix this for Cynthia?

    Also, what if anything should I cut for Lucina to have DS+?

    Henry!Cynthia can just use Vengeance and Spd +2/AS +2. But making the switch to Chrom would be a worthwhile choice anyway because Aether/Luna is god.
    Severa with any dad usually has the same skills: Vengeance, faire, GF, Limit Break, AS +2/Armsthrift.
    With Lucina it's worth cutting a faire for DS+. Lucina's skillset is almost static regardless of mother with DLC enabled. Aether, Luna, GF, Limit Break, DS+

    The Pairing Thread

    in Fire Emblem: Awakening

    Posted

    How do Heroes factor in to pairing up in regards to Physical vs Magic? They don't boost either, but still give a nice speed and skill boost. Are they (and, by extension, Bow Knights) worthwhile alternatives if you need to give a speed boost and don't have other worthwhile options due to losing more power than you'd gain?

    Unlike Tricksters, their stat caps aren't god awful at least.

    Heroes and Bow Knights have the special niche of having universally appreciated pair up bonuses. +3 Skill and +3 Speed, which translates to +8 Skill and +8 Speed after bonuses are applied, can go a long way. Heroes add another +2 (+7 after bonuses) defense and Bow Knights add +1 Mov.

    One of the reasons I like Grandmaster is because every single class in the game benefits from its pair up bonuses and it benefits from every class's pair up bonuses.

    You could be a nutcase like me and rock Sniper x Sage. Both classes give +Skill to each other and you can get Celica's Gale backup damage from 3 range.

    Emmeryn's Sacrifice

    in Fire Emblem: Awakening

    Posted

    I decided to stop replying to you (Interceptor) after you blatantly ignored the context of the images you posted. I was pretty done when you likened Walhart's image to Emm's. Do you even context? Do you even associated dialogue? Do you even focal point? What about the events that precede and proceed those images? You ignored all of that and said "they have sunlight so your point is false!" But I have to reply now since you of all people are trying to give me a lecture on ignoring context.

    More of this "the game" business, when actually it's just a single magnanimous Plegian general talking. Also, you cut out a HUGE amount of context, namely this:

    Soldier: But I don't wish to abandon you, sir!
    Mustafa: I cannot defy the king, lad. I know him well. He would murder my wife and child to set an example. I will accept the blame for your actions today. Now go!
    Soldier: W-wait, General! I see a cause worth fighting for, one I believe in: loyalty to my general

    Note that Mustafa fights for Gangrel for a very personal reason, and then the Soldiers join with him to fight against Chrom anyway. Literally they put loyalty to their commander over anything that Emmeryn said. So much for that!

    The game lacks a narrator. Every message that it tries to convey is through the dialogue of the characters. I believe this has been stated to you multiple times. The soldier acted as a microcosm of the Plegian military. The fact that the soldier stayed and fought for Mustafa is irrelevant, what matters here is that he had a drastic and sudden change of heart, regardless of how temporary it was, due to Emmeryn's words. Emm's morality speech and Christ-like sacrifice reached him. The game, through its characters, indirectly glorifies Emmeryn's actions.

    You think the soldier was the only one whose heart changed? Your memory must be a bit foggy. Here, let me refresh it with a scene from the chapter that comes directly afterwards.

    >Soldier enters

    Soldier
    Y-Your Highness! Dire news!

    Gangrel
    Oh? Speak.

    Soldier
    Our troops are laying down their weapons and deserting en masse! Please, sire... I am but a messenger... Have mercy...

    >Scene change

    Frederick
    Milord, I've a report from Khan Flavia. The Plegian army is in disarray.

    Chrom
    How do you mean?

    Frederick
    It seems many of their soldiers are opposed to further violence. There has been infighting, desertion... Gangrel is trying to stamp out the mutiny by force, but with little success. Outside of a few faithful who serve him directly, his army has all but collapsed.

    Chrom
    This is incredible news. But why...? ...Emmeryn.

    Frederick
    Yes, milord. Emmeryn. The report says Gangrel's men chant her name as they abandon the field. Her words, and her sacrifice, have made her a folk hero of sorts.

    Chrom
    Emmeryn... Why did it take me so long to understand? She believed all people desire peace. She knew, deep down, the Plegians wanted it, too. It just took her to bring it to the surface.

    The most hilarious part of this is that they chanted her fucking name. If this isn't glorification to you, then I think you might as well stop posting.

    Emm DOES listen to reason at first: she agrees to Frederick's idea of retreating to the eastern palace (end of Chapter 6). But at the end of Chapter 7, she changes her mind, and nothing that Chrom says (and he tries, repeatedly) alters her course:

    Emmeryn: Come, Phila. We must go.

    This is a dismissal. Go read the entire thing; Emm is not wavering, Chrom cannot talk her down. Not even Frederick or Phila try to change her mind.

    Emm wanted to go back because she's Emmeryn. Chrom wanted to charge into Plegia because they were going to murder his damn sister. If Chrom could be talked out of it, then so could Emm. All it really does is make Emm seem stubborn.

    But here is the exact problem. I'm probably going in circles here trying to explain this to you, but whatever. A simple text reference isn't enough, you need a visual for this.

    http://youtu.be/a2sA0gGcpBA?t=27m39s

    27:39 - 29:58

    Watch it. The music sets the mood for the entire scene. As I've said before, the crux of the entire scene was Chrom's "Be selfish for once in your life!". That changed the context of the entirety of Emm's decision. Despite how stubborn, stupid, and arguably selfish her decision was, the game, through the dialogue of our only source of reliable narrative (the primary cast), still paints her decision as wise ( "As for the peace I seek... You cannot see who it is for. I have to go. I'm sorry—I truly am.), selfless, and noble.

    Who DIDN'T you use?

    in Fire Emblem: Awakening

    Posted · Edited by Ownagepuffs

    uninteresting, very do not like, rarely get on account of <-- but don't mind on her own, don't like, don't like voice

    wut

    Integ pls

    Virion. Would it really kill IS to make an early archer that doesn't suck?

    Mirel. I give her fire tome to the avatar then have her hide in the corner

    Cherche. I usually have 3 fliers by the time she joins and don't really see the need for another

    Sayri. I would actually use her if she had more support options since as a SM she basically fixes anyone's speed problems.

    Tiki. Joins too late

    Jamke.

    The Pairing Thread

    in Fire Emblem: Awakening

    Posted

    Kjelle also has the lowest Str mod of any commonly used physical unit (+1), and either can't procstack or must give up a Faire to hit 75 Spd with Wyvern (assuming Gaius).

    As far as Str goes, she isn't losing too bad to other physical girls and (assuming Gaius) makes up for it with amazing Speed and Skill. She loses to every physical male because Aggressor though.

    Emmeryn's Sacrifice

    in Fire Emblem: Awakening

    Posted

    Not going to bother reading six pages of people complaining about a character I don't have any strong feelings for one way or another. Just want to chime in and say, Emmeryn's Sacrifice probably had less to do with sacrifice and more to do with Gangrel than her. He was shown to be a huge asshole all round, Emmeryn's death was likely the straw that broke the camel's back. Less "Oh Emmeryn with her super pure pureness gave her life for peace. Let's all be peaceful!" and more "Man our king Gangrel is a real asshole. Forcing super pure pureness to off herself like that. What a dick. I don't want to fight for a guy like that anymore." Also helps that the entire population wasn't there and wouldn't have a detail account of how likely she could have survived had she not jumped.

    I disagree. The game frames their change of heart in a way that credits Emm more than it discredits Gangrel.

    Soldier

    Forgive me, sir, but I...I no longer see the justice in hunting these people down. I accept any punishment you see fit, but after all that's happened...I just can't.

    Wyvern Rider

    How dare you question the general's orders! You know full well the punishment for insubordination is death!

    Soldier

    B-but, sir! These people are—

    Mustafa

    These questions are not ours to ponder, lad. The soldier does not judge. The soldier delivers judgment.

    Soldier

    Sir, I... I cannot raise my lance against them. Even if... Even if it means death.

    Mustafa

    ...You were there when Emmeryn spoke, weren't you? So be it! Those of you unwilling to fight are dismissed!

    And earlier in the chapter

    Mustafa

    Ylisseans! I offer you mercy! Surrender to me now and live!

    Basilio

    Surrender? Sorry, I'm not familiar with the word.

    Mustafa

    Emmeryn would not have wished for this to come to bloodshed.

    The game makes it seem like Emm changed their hearts, not that they had a change or heart due to Gangrel being a dick.

    See, all that really shows just how terrible a leader Emmeryn is if she is going to be that stubborn.

    Having power doesn't mean you allow someone to make a really bad decision. Take Malledus. Even though Marth is the prince and heir, he still prevents Marth from running back to save Elice or going after the decoy. And Marth, being a good leader, realizes just how bad a decision it would be go back. Malledus literally bars Marth's path. Just stands in his way. And Marth comes to his senses. Perhaps Chrom should have done the same. There is no excuse for just standing there. It's no like the same chapter doesn't have an example of a character punching someone with a lot more authoirty to knock some sense into them.

    There's even an example of that in this game.

    Basilio

    The Mad King knew our scouts would relay this information back. It's clearly a provocation—a hot brand to the buttocks! We should consider our options carefully before jumping to any—

    Chrom

    Shepherds! We march to Plegia!

    Basilio

    *Ahem* Well, that would be ONE option, yes... But perhaps we've seen enough royalty waltzing into traps for one war already, eh?

    Chrom

    I don't care if it's a trap, Basilio. He's going to murder my sister!

    Flavia

    Peace, Chrom. Breathe a moment. No one's suggesting we don't act. We're simply saying we should act WISELY. We'll need guts AND wits in equal measure if we're to save your sister.

    Robin

    The khans are right. I'll think of something, Chrom. I promise.

    Instead of blindly charging in there, the Khans warn Chrom that it is a bad idea. Chrom, who's been proven to at least have half a brain, realizes that they are correct and decides to take a more cautious approach. So no, the "no one could have stopped Emmeryn" excuse does not hold up.

    Ready for Apotheosis?

    in Fire Emblem: Awakening

    Posted

    Ok, so i looked back at my team and only 2 people can reach 75 speed because i dont have rally heart. Hero Severa and Assassin Kjelle. Idk if Chrom/Sumia can reach 75 speed, i havent maxed them yet. Do i need more people with 75 speed or is that fine?

    If you put Spd +2 in Sumia's skillset and make Chrom a Bow Knight she should be able to hit 75 Spd.

    Lemme check

    Dark Flier Sumia w/ Galeforce, Luna, Tomefaire, Limit Break, Speed +2

    42 (Base) + 3 (Mods) + 10 (Limit Break) + 8 (Rallies) + 2 (Spd +2) + 3 (Bow Knight Pair up bonus) + 3 (Pair up stat bonus) + 2 (S rank bonus) + 2 (Spd tonic) = 75

    Yep, she can do it. Sumia is god tier. This is one example of tonics being useful. Don't stress the 75 Spd threshold too much though.

×
×
  • Create New...