Knusperkeks
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Posts posted by Knusperkeks
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Don't give up hope, I'm cheering for you~!
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As far as movement goes, I assume you mean with regards to the AI units?
Well, I wouldn't mind sacrificing movement for defense (i.e. a General) if there were some way for such a pair to be reliably tanked.
While I have yet to do the calculations on this, I suspect that such would not be the case, however.
Even Kellam!Nah!Morgan@+Def with Limit Breaker gets annihilated by brave weapons and dual strikes. The only way to live through a barrage of attacks is to avoid them.
To that end, speed is vital - It decreases the probability of the enemy doubling your unit. Of course this is a vain effort, but we can at least try to make it difficult for the enemy to just walk up with his snipers from 3 range and kill everything without any hopes of retaliation.
I was thinking that it might be a good strategy for the MU to have boots, almost regardless of what they are.
From what I recall, the MU is treated as the 'boss' of the StreetPass team, and will usually spawn furthest among the rest of the AI.
MU will spawn furthest from the enemy that's true.
From this quote I infer that you want your team to move as one, sticking together, because it would suck to have your units split off from one another just to be cherry picked by the opponent
Other than that, high movement classes are acceptable if they have some perceived benefit.
For example, fliers are able to bypass most terrain, though a similar affect could be achieved by a Paladin or Bow Knight with Acrobat.
Besides this, most 6-movement classes have some other benefit, like the higher skill and speed of Heroes and Assassins for instance.
I think movement is the most crucial stat of all, since it limits the amount of time your opponent has to take advantage of map architecture. Of course, all classes have their benefits, some of which you mentioned.
Did you have something particular in mind?
No, not particularly. I've had a few iterations of teams, the latest one is about half a year old, you can see it here. I doubt that it'll contribute much, if anything at all to this thread, but it won't hurt, I think.
Do you want to use the logbook?
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S rank doesn't give +2 flat across the board but +2 to the class modifiers, as can be read near the end of the page you linked.
Vaike!Gerome!Morgan@Berserker:
61 str/ 26 mag/ 38 skll/ 45 spd/ 44 luk/ 36 def/ 26 res
Bonuses:
+5 str, +3 spd from Berserker class pair-up.
+2 str, +2 spd from A/S rank class modifier
+3 str, +2 mag, +3 skl, +3 spd, +3 lck, +3 def, +2 res from support unit stat bonus
total:
+10 str, +2 mag, +3 Skl, +8 Spd, +3 lck, +3 def, +2 res.
Olivia!Lucina@Assassin:
42 str/ 31 mag/ 51 skll/ 49 spd/ 47 luk/ 30 def/ 29 res base
52 str/ 33 mag/ 54 skl/ 57 spd/ 50 lck/ 33 def/ 31 res with Morgan S supporting her.
All rallies sans heart is +8 to all and +12 to luck, correct.
Question: How much do you value movement?
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Comics like these are the reason I'm still wasting a few minutes per week scanning through the content of shady websites. I have never seen it - maybe I didn't dig deep enough.
Thanks for showing us but a glimpse of the real work! It looks massive. Wish I had found it when it was still on sale!
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Book of Naga provides +5 Def/Res respectively.
What opponents do you plan to optimize against?
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She's not getting called out on anything if she completely ignores it. Many people try to call her out but by the end of the support chain, it almost always the other person backing down. The one with Cynthia completely drops the subject.
They're literally starting a contest over who is better. How much closer to a fight can you get, without making things escalate?
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Working with absolutely no dlc would be something I never did before (for streetpass) so that's exciting, you can count me in for that one!
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Can someone explain why Sage with Celica's Gale is better than Sorcerer with Waste? Waste Sorc is stronger but Celica's Sage is more accurate. I've always considered Sage better, but I don't know how to respond when someone says that the extra power of Waste matters more. Is the accuracy thing enough to make CG better?
copypasted from a different thread:
Waste has 10 Mt and 45 hit.
To gain this much, you need 10/1=10 forge points in Mt and 45/5=9 forge points in hit, so 19 points total. 19 units of raw power.
Celica's Gale has 4 Mt, 80 hit. That's 4/1+80/5=4+16=20. 20 units of raw power.
Celica's Gale is actually more powerful in this regard.
It's only when the unit has dozens of hit rating which entirely go to waste (sry lol) that the Waste tome pulls ahead of Celica's Gale.
Waste has potentially 6 more mt than Celica's, if you consider that your unit can reclass to sage instead, which has 2 more magic, that advantage of 6 mt shrinks to 4 mt only. But you lose 35 hit rating at base and 7.5 hit rating from the 5 skill that sages have over sorcerors. That's 42.5 hit rating.
If 4 might is worth 42.5 hit to you, then a sorcerer with waste is better, otherwise not. There are some other small things like pair-up bonuses, which were not accounted for, as well as sages having staff access.
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What Vascela might have meant with not assuming DLC is that you shouldn't automatically assume the person who gets to fight your team isn't guaranteed to have DLC. Though I'm not too sure on that one. I agree that one has to go all-out to even have a sliver of hope to have one's units win streetpass battles.Edit: I got ninja'd.
Will you still feel bad if we pretend to not use our DLC and just work skill setups which are based on 4 skill slots?
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First, nice avatar !
Thanks~!
She only get called a jerk, not only is this a huge understatement, but I wouldn'd call that getting called out., especially since it doesn't happen nearly enough.
Holy crap, she was horrible in that support, I know it was more or less supposed to be funny, but I think the trope 'Dude, not funny' apply there, or at least in the C and B Support, then it become complete and total randomness.
Mind you, I blame mostly Cynthia for the randomness.
She only gets called jerk because the game must be accessible to children, so heavy insults are not acceptable. Dastard is reserved for enemies. What would you have others call her that is not off limits?
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I'm really glad I post everything in a non-standard font. Without it, it would be a huge pain in the rear to distinguish my own words from others. (Even more than it is right now.)
I see what you're saying. Yeah Galeforce doesn't actually contribute anything to stats but if I'm trying to do the most damage in a turn as possible, wouldn't it be more effective than Luck +4?
Yes.
What did you decide on?
I decided to settle with GF for the time being. Currently it's better for what I need him to do in my runs. If I decide that he needs to kill axes, I might change that.
I suppose.
Yes.
I disagree with this. I guess it falls under how you consider a properly optimized killing unit. Morgan + Lucina as a pair-up wielding Galeforce allows them to flatten Apotheosis but I think I see what you're saying. Luck +4 would be better used in place of GF if you're trying to reach a certain benchmark or kill a certain enemy you'd otherwise be unable to.
Right.
I get your point of Luck +4 being a better skill in terms of it boosting stats.
Okay.
When did I say the only skills eligible for discussion were stat boosters?
I never said only stat boosters are eligible, I also mentioned breaker skills,which are essentially +hit or avoid skills.
You mentioned something about it and I just quoted your very own words. How should I know what they mean if you don't know it yourself?
Alrighty.
Okay.
This is the same thinking that invalidates Iote's Shield, huh? The skill is worthless since your units shouldn't be in a position to take damage in the first place. Then on that front, I agree.
Skills are never worthless. Some of them just need certain conditions to be met in order to turn useful. Whether it's worthwhile to keep a skill even though it is useful to have is a different question.
So in the situation Yoshi outlined, it would have been more beneficial to the units survival to un-equip their weapon? Wouldn't they just die the turn afterwards?
If you don't pull a stunt like sending your battle ready team in there to save poor Inigo then he will probably die eventually, yes.
I didn't think the skills I listed were entirely that bad to be honest.
None of the skills you listed were "that bad" indeed. In fact I think they are all really awesome, but they are not worthy to be in the top 5 if one considers the criteria you provide.
Rallies are great but it's just kinda. I don't know... I mean the rallies are important, but aren't the skills you have equipped on the unit the rally was for, far more important?
My logic is that with the four skill slots you pay for Rally Strength/Magic/Speed/Spectrum, you can give so many stats to your whole army that nothing in the entire game comes even close to that.
Rally spectrum is 28 to all stats on all units. 560 stats over 20 units.
Rally Strength/Magic/Speed are 80 stats each over 20 units.
For comparison only, Limit Breaker gives 70 total stats.
People say Limit Breaker is the strongest skill in the game, but I disagree. This is why I mentioned the four rallies in my original post.
Hmmmmmm.
Right.
My line of thought when giving the friend example was for this thread to be easily accessible to players who just kinda type in Best 5 Skills in Awakening. Ya know, the ones that ask for quick help or the ones that don't have enough experience with the game to make an opinion for themselves on whether or not a certain skill is good or bad.
All the skills are situational. I'm using skills like Avoid+10, Speed+2 on my Severa, because they help her the best at what I need her to do. Doesn't mean that these skills are TEH_LEET and everyone needs to get them on every character in existence.
How is it impossible for a group of people to reach a consensus on what the best skills are? Although I think I understand what you're saying here. Unless I give a certain fitting criteria like "Best skills for beginning utility" obviously veteran would soar through every post. Unless I do that, it's impossible to claim a certain any 5 are the best?
Exactly.
I didn't mercilessly shoot anyone down (at least, not on purpose), I just didn't have the clarification that I do now.
Then I retract the mercilessly from my post.
Edit:
I'll drop my parameters for optimizing with Apotheosis in mind. I'll make it a more general measurement thread, but still post-game.
Pftt I'm a lazy shot any who.
Okay.
If you already have a unit which covers the rallies, I'll say Vengeance, X-Faire, Dual Strike+, Anathema and Galeforce are pretty dope.
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What support have you been reading? Cynthia calls her a jerk in her B support and Severa just snarks it off and ignored it. The rest of the support chain is something completely different. Her behaviour doesn't change at all.
And what are you talking about? As soon as I do not quote somebody, what I say gets twisted and reinterpreted in a wrong way, fine here goes:
Most of the characters from FE13 have a gimmick that make them infuriating, Severa just so happens to have the worse gimmick of the lot, that I just so happens to hate.
Seriously, just because she's a tsundere doesn't mean she can act like such a b-word.
It's really Tsundere just for the fetish of it, in full tsun-mode with 100% bitchiness, with most of the supports instantly taking an stupid turn with her. And of course, she never get called out on it.
This is the claim. I respond with this:
She does get called out on it in her supports with Cynthia, for example
Whether or not she changes her behavior isn't even open to debate. I refuted B.Leu's statement, that's all.
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She does get called out on it in her supports with Cynthia, for example
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What do you want me to respond to, exactly? My own post, or the "response" you put into the quote of my post? In that case, the red ones, or the black ones, or both?
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Especially not for the notion of free stat boosts, as it's quality in terms of raising stats is 1/7th of LB.
2 divided by 10 is in fact not 1/7 but 1/5.
@TheFriendlyFire
Do not forget to utilize the Cavalier's lv 1 skill Discipline. It makes it easier to reach the required ranks to use 1-2 range weapons from the weapon triangle to grind LB3 effectively.
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Galeforce isn't certain to activate, sure, if you aren't optimizing your units correctly.
If I optimize my units correctly to get every last ounce of combat prowess out of them, they will not utilize Galeforce in the first place. That is my original point. The definition of combat prowess in Apotheosis is generally accepted as "kill more reliably". So I claim Luck+4 is better than Galeforce for that. I'm just repeating the same content as can be seen in #14.
In my latest apo challenge run, I was in a pinch when I had to decide which set was better for Frederick!Inigo@Berserker:
Str+2, Axefaire and Axe-/Sword-/Lancebreaker or Str+2, Axefaire, two of aforementioned breakers and Galeforce. It is a difficult decision.
If your units are optimizied you should have no problem taking out an enemy and activating Galeforce.
You mean if my unit's work like perfect killing machines with only 4 skill slots, then Galeforce is a good quality of life improvement to help them do more of it.
Then again, units optimized to kill do not use skills which contribute nothing to their combat effectiveness. By now I did mention a number of times that Galeforce doesn't do jack to help you kill enemies.
Yes if you can't confirm the kill, technically it's a waste of a skill slot but that argument is silly.
Talking about silly; By the standard you impose on people in this thread, Luck+4 is in fact a better skill than Galeforce.
Luck+4 is better at confirming kills than Galeforce. Whichever miniscule amount it is, it's still more than zero. This argument is not silly, it is flawless.
If you look for something to call silly, look at your premise.
Galeforce doesn't directly relate to battle stats, but it allows for the same attacker to attack again and initiate combat up to 3 times. You can't tell me Luck +4 is better.
In no known universe does Galeforce contribute to battle stats at all. When all that matters are battle stats, which is - let me remind you - your own prerequisite to even enter a skill into this discussion, then I am in fact telling you that Luck+4 is better. There is no room for you to argue rationally against this point.
I can replenish weapon durability? With all those Hammerne's I'm banking on? Or with the infinite convoy system that allows me to trade in all my used up Ragnells or Helswaths? Armsthrift doesn't apply to combat or succeeding in combat scenarios?
Off topic. We are strictly talking about combat effectiveness, and hence combat stats. Whether or not you are able to count to 30 (or whichever durability your weapons have) is irrelevant.
So say I have a unit taking on a mass of enemies and their weapons durability is expended mid-battle. As a result of this they die. This is a dumb scenario as my unit shouldn't have been placed in a location where the threat of death was imminent but it still applies to this all the same. In that instance Armsthrift would have saved my units life.
The unit doesn't die because it doesn't have enough weapon durability to fight back. It dies because the tactician didn't consider all possible outcomes of the scenario, leading to the units death.
It's not the units fault for dying. No amount of weapon durability would save the unit. In fact, having more weapon durability to begin with is what directly contributed to the units death, as outlined by Yoshi in #19.
Taking your examples. The skills you employ work together in tandem with your strategic blunders to punish you to the point of where your units die. It is entirely your own fault.
I guess the killer words here were "per my own definition".
What you considered the best was discerned by skill slot opportunity cost, so getting the most out of each skill slot.
What I consider the best is this and only this:
My metric for being the best? Skills or skill combinations that allow you to succeed in combat scenarios.
Now I take a look at this definition and come to the conclusion that the rallies I mentioned contribute more to my army than any other skill could. That is why I mention rallies. Do not mistake your own faulty interpretation of my argument for the truth.
Now dumb down your thinking a bit for us casuals. If your best friend, who recently bought the game, asks you what the 5 best skills in Awakening are, what will you reply?
Veteran, Veteran, Veteran, Veteran, Veteran.
I know this also seems confusing since I took the assumption that most players had finished the game and were on Apo but this isn't for any kind of optimization test or anything.
It is not confusing, it is illogical. You change the premise under which we discuss "The 5 Best Skills/Skill Combos in FE: Awakening" whenever you feel like it. First apotheosis optimization, now we have to assume the player is a scrub who picks up the game for the first time, what's next?
I just want some compare and contrast conversation on what most of you dudes think to be the top skills.
As vague as it sounds I'm asking the same thing; What are the 5 best skills in Awakening?
This entirely depends the goal you want to achieve. It is impossible to say "A, B, C, D, E" are the best.
I won't even bother to try to name them, since I have experience from the past that Yoshi tried to do it in #11 just to be mercilessly shot down in #13. I'm not going to walk into the same trap he did.
I'll give you some time to exactly specify your parameters of measurement for "The 5 Best Skills/Skill Combos in FE: Awakening".
I do not want to be shot like Yoshi.
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This is DLC.
No it's actually spotpass. All you need for that is a working wireless connection. You don't have to pay anything to download the bonus teams.
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And then I hear "You're BOOOORING ME!" again and cringe-laugh.
Yes the intonation offends my ears as well. I like her japanese quotes better.
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They did it on purpose to avoid giving ammo to waifu wars.
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*takes cover next to TheFriendlyFire, behind his shield* Thanks for bringing this with you, it was a wise choice!
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Sevy just needs a hug, 'tis all. She is one of my favorite characters in the game, both as a unit and her little quirks.
@Rapier: Awesome signature!
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I just read the Cynthia and Nah B support.
I think Cynthia is my new #1 in the setting of this thread. There is no way anything she says in their A support will correct this.
Edit: Managed to unlock A support. That one is one of the worst I've ever read in this game, for different reasons than the B support. Original opinion I posted above didn't change. It's just horrendous.
Yet Another Attempt At StreetPass
in Fire Emblem: Awakening
Posted
Just for the record: I'm not trying to force this thread into a certain direction. My believe is to let it evolve freely into whichever direction it feels like going. That's more interesting, fun, and will yield better results, which I'm certain of.