BBM

SB, you need to reread both Kirby and PToE. Calling Prims scummy in PToE isn't a 1v1; it's an attack. The 1v1 didn't occur until he claimed an investigation guilty on me. And Kirby there were multiple kills, so no shit there was an SK. And then I also got an investigation report if you remember. As for me dismissing Wen's "townslip" being similar to something in Villains 2, I argued Poly as town for a while off a similar sort of "slip" in Healer, where I was scum. If you're going to use meta, do it with things that I actually do consistently as only one alignment.

wen is still probably town but that kind of stuff is easy to fake

@SB- it's not ITP hunting because 1) means Elie is scum. It's an attempt to determine the alignment of my biggest scumread. I did pursue Eury yesterday (so saying I dropped that slot isn't true) but Bearclaw pinged me so I went with that instead near the end. As for lurking being alignment independent; I've come to realize that it's not really true. It's like emotion- the act itself might be independent of alignment, but the reasons behind it often aren't. Like in Villains 2 on MotK I lurked for a while so that I wouldn't have to prove my claimed role at a time when I couldn't use it. There are some people like Rein or Rapier who just get bored or lazy after a day phase or two, but with Bearclaw his activity is generally pretty consistent. Either he's lurking the entire time or he's fairly active throughout- an initial flurry of posts followed by a lot of lurking seemed out of character for him. As for the rest of your attack... idk man. I'll admit my play hasn't been great but there really isn't much else I can say. You're not really null to me; I'm leaning town just on general play. BTW I agree that Wen is bad + inactive town, but your reasons aren't really good. There was plenty of attention on Wen due to his RD vote near the end of D1. GP's action checks out. I tried targeting Refa and my action failed, except I also lost a use of it, which didn't happen on N1 when I was hooked. Anyways, it seems that nobody agrees on which of 1, 2, and 3 are most likely since I got responses from people against all three options. Guess I'll just wait for Elie to catch up there. ##Vote: Eurykins for now I guess. tbh I think that the scumteam is among the lurkers. The only active person I don't have some level of a townread on is Baldrick (who's null). And Shin kind of. Would hazard guess at Elie/Eury/scorri/kirsche? With the two I just mentioned as wild cards.

eagerly awaiting

Who was hooked/protected @ Refa/Shinori? Wen, did you have just the one shot or did you idle or what? Bearclaw's statement that his recruit failed on Elie can be taken three different ways IMO: 1) It really did fail; Elie is scum. 2) His recruit succeeded on someone else and he was trying to posthumously get Elie killed to help out his recruit. 3) His recruit succeeded on Elie and he was trying to make us think it was 2) so that he wouldn't lynch Elie.. Which do you guys think is more likely? I'm kind of leaning the first because I thought Elie was scum anyways but idk. I don't think 3) is too likely because I can't really remember Bearclaw ever engaging too much in WIFOM. 2) is a possibility though.

Tables- by your definition, why isn't FE10 Elincia a lord? She commands her army in Part 2 (admittedly only for a chapter), is a joint commander with Tibarn in Part 4, and is forced Endgame. She even has her own class and Prf weapon. I personally would say that any character who consistently provides a game-over upon their death is a lord. I don't think that availability really matters.

basically bearclaw is claiming weak watcher serial killer

oh yeah sure

I don't see how 5 shots of doc + probably 2-3 shots of townsided roleblocking are too OP, especially as the doc shots are likely to be frontloaded and will all be used by N4 at the latest. That being said, Bear's last few posts have been wtf and are probably WIFOM. I don't see why it was necessary to lie about protecting me.

yeah sorry guys I just got Civ 5 and have been playing that I won't go Shinori-modo I sware ##Unvote, ##Vote: Bearclaw Bearclaw's effort levels have majorly tanked since when he subbed in- normally with subs that means that the first flurry of posts was stuff they had to say from before they subbed in, when they were just skimming the thread, and then they don't care enough to reread more thoroughly- which generally happens more often with scum. Eury lynch is fine too. It's my mom's birthday so I'm going out for dinner and might not be here for phase end.

The case on Eury is that she subbed into a suspicious slot and her reads are all really null except for the really easy one on Wen that just tries to sweep the Vig claim under the carpet. Vig claims are bad fakes to give to mafia because they can't actually be proven (unless they really do have an extra kill). Shinori, you can't go like "didn't like SB's d1 posts; vote: sb" and then not talk about SB's D2 at all. In fact Shinori's entire D2 is lining up lynches between me and SB. Also I missed Refa's response to me. Whoops. Well, Wen's reason for shooting Fleur wasn't that her posts were suspicious- he just thought she was crumbing Vig. tbh I don't really like Poly's posts but I'm inclined to think that him and GP are both town because of rolestuff- I don't really think that scumbuddies would tie claims together like that, and it's unlikely that only one of them is scum.

nothing about TANA? (my vote goes to Eirika as well, fwiw... FE8 has too many loli girls ;_;)

You've said nothing about Elie other than that my case is good. And though I find Elie suspicious, he probably wouldn't make a good lynch atm, sadly. Too inactive. And while you say this, your vote is still on GP... despite what multiple people have said as to why he's most likely town.

Eury's post spends a lot of time saying stuff that everyone already knows. I don't think that a single person here has ever tried to argue that Wen has made good posts. Neither I nor anybody else needs to read 15 lines about why Wen's posts suck. Why would a SK or mafia claim vig if they weren't? When the real vig could CC them or shoot them at night?

Sorry guys, I was out the entirety of yesterday. Wen do you have any more vigshots? If so, it can be confirmed whether or not your first claimed kill was really just the mafia nightkill. Scorri covered pretty well why it's pretty unlikely that GP is scum. That being said, I want to see more from Scorri. All her posts this just phase are just logic and facts, and while it's fairly sound, it's not difficult for mafia to post logic. And Scorri isn't normally someone who argues majorly off roles. Scorri, who is scum? Eury's posts are sort of blah. I think SB covered it kind of well. I'm maybe not the best person to be saying this, but her reads are all really weak and leaning null.

and why the fuck would you change your name to Mango Sentinel seriously ##Vote: Elieson

I was rereading the lurkers because it's easy. Elieson's content post was kind of shitty. His suspicion about me is like... literally about stuff from RVS. Yeah, I admitted I wagoned Refa for a shitty reason two hours into the game. Totally worth commenting on >60 hours later, right? And what does RD having responded to the case or not have to do with me being allowed to sheep it? His read on Shin is literally just "wow your townread on BBM is unjustified". Worthy of third scummiest person in the thread! Also, note that RD and I think GP as well also say they're leaning kind of town on me, and Elie doesn't call either of them out for that. He points out several things about why Refa is scum but then Refa is missing in his scumlist. OK. I also thought Refa was scum but one of the reasons Elie offers was really bad. "Asking people why you're scummy is scummy" isn't something used by people in the year 2014. If people don't elaborate on why they find you scummy, you have to ask them, or you can't defend yourself. It was a shit reason when people used it in 2012 and it's a shit reason now. The Fleur case is just like... idk. I don't know how to explain it but it just seems really heavily exaggerated. And despite all of the contradictions or whatever that he points out in her posts, there's no indication as to why those contradictions are due to her being scum, or what the scum intent is. As evidenced by her flip, town can also have poor logic at times. And I tried reading between the lines, I really did. Poly- did you seriously try to redirect a kill towards the claimed info role?

Why do you think it's unlikely that the mafia killed Fleur? That's the second time you've said so without a reason behind it. If you were the mafia, who would you have killed? Elie, scorri, Eclipse, kirsche, Xinny, Wen, Poly, and Shinori were all inactive (lol half the game, also two of them had asked for subs). You, SB, and GP were all wagons on D1. I wasn't a wagon but a few people had stated suspicion of me near the end of the phase (you, Shinori, Elie). Bearclaw had just subbed in. So that leaves like... Fleur and Shin? And Shin hadn't really been super-active either, and Fleur had crumbed an info role.

Sorry Eclipse. Not feeling it atm. Yeah I know I signed up like a few hours ago.

this post. You say that your vote isn't purely for rolespec reasons, which implies it is partially, and then also say that it's possible some other Hooker blocked the kill by targeting SB. This implies you think that the kill was blocked because either SB or I took the kill

huh it just randomly posted in the middle False dichotomies are one of the things that caused town to lynch correctly a total of 0 times in Inception, if you remember. This doesn't make you scum by itself unfortunately, unless you, Poly, and Shinori are all scum, which is probably not the case. @Green Poet- the idea is that it's the most likely explanation for why there's no kill other than the one claimed by the Vig. Which is stupid. meh I was just kind of angry for a while at dumb cases and dumb play but taking a step back, Refa has stepped up his play a lot from D1 tunneling badly on Shin. I still want an answer to my question, but my case as a whole doesn't really apply anymore. So I don't really have any reads right now other than that Wen is probably town Vig and GP is probably town if Poly is telling the truth about driving GP and SB. In that case, it would indicate that the hook was originally aimed at GP. And I don't think a town Hooker would target the claimed info role, even if they thought that person was scummy. I don't have an actual read on SB, but I think that if he flips scum, that's still not a proper explanation for why there's one less kill than people might expect. If he was scum and he took the kill and was hooked, I don't expect his first post today to have included being hooked. It's not mandatory for town to out they've been hooked, so he didn't have any obligations to connect himself in that way to the events. Question to Poly- why did you/Marth want to drive GP with me/SB? Did you want to drive things away from GP or did you want to drive things towards GP from me or SB?

yawn "Votes Radiant Dragon early on for not giving a reason for voting Shin. Not why I voted RD. I voted him because he said that he was voting Shin for his attempts to start a wagon. I clarified this to Kirsche as well. Considering I did this in FiM and BBM didn't find that suspicious enough to vote for, this strikes me as very much not town!BBM. His first content post is bad. He nitpicks at things (e.g. Fleur saying that eclipse not contributing is worse than RD, eclipse harping over whether Fleur knows what OMGUS means) but doesn't actually offer any reads. I asked Fleur a question to help my reads develop, and the fact that I didn't like Eclipse was implicit. I said that her case didn't impress me and that I didn't like some of her comments. Do you want me to explicitly say "I think this person is scummy" every time I say I dislike their posts? BBM talks much more about alignment as town as well. Next post of his is more of the same. And the next. Not going to have a new scumread for you in every post, sorry. And one of those posts is also attacking RD. And you know why I was pissed that day too. >_> Despite appearing to be active, the first time he lays an opinion on anything is when he makes his case on me. And he still doesn't really state anything about my alignment, most of his complaints seem to be about bad play rather than anything else. Read between the lines. The "complaint" was that you had little content and what did exist was weak. And that your Boron suspicion was not only a misrepresentation of her posts, but that it was trying to twist her attack back towards her. His Wen defense doesn't make sense to me for reasons I've stated in my Wen case. So you disagree with me. As with the Shin thing, this doesn't make someone scum. You're comparing to Kaoz, and I'm comparing to Proto. Don't really mind the actual SB case, but the fact that he himself has no thoughts on SB while saying he doesn't want to lynch him is off. SB was a nullread being wagoned for bad reasons. He'd been inactive since the first 24 hours of the phase, which is why he was a nullread. Again, more of this impersonal complaining at other peoples' reads rather than sharing any of his own. Also I feel like town!BBM would have some town reads at this point... ok" Also, that reminded me of something- you still never answered as to why Shin's RD case was bad. You just kept saying "yes I did" even though I said, twice, that your appraisal of Shin's RD case was that he had a different reason to you for finding RD scummy, not that that case was bad. And you're also creating a false dichotomy between me and SB when there is no guarantee at all that one of us is scum. My best guess is still that Fleur was also the mafia's kill target. She was an active player who'd crumbed an investigation role; that's more than enough to draw a kill.

I was not referring to you, I was referring to Shinori, Poly, and Refa. Sorry.

wow it's like neither of you even read what I said about why lynching between me and SB is bad. a) There are probably unclaimed protection roles, unless you guys think that Hookers who are probably limited shot are the only protection town has. b) There's a possibility that Fleur was also the mafia NK. She crumbed and said her role was redundant with Tracker, which implied investigation. And nobody really looked that townie yesterday anyways, so if people are going to argue against this through "Fleur was scummy!" they should also suggest who exactly would have been a good NK last night for the mafia to make.

yeah scorri: We're not lynching among not one but two people who were hooked when the mafia's kill could also have been blocked by a Doctor, or the mafia could have also tried to kill Fleur, seeing as she said her role was like Tracker (it wasn't but whatever). Do you have any opinions on who is scum off posts? Refa, is there any question you actually want me to answer? Sorry, I have like 100 extremely dry pages of biology to read right now and devoted too much time to another game as it is. That might also be why I sound a little snippy right now.