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IN since I have next week off

Well I woke up late, so this is going to be kind of rushed. Looking through RD's recent opinion post, other than SB and sort of Wen, literally everyone is listed as either a townread or a suspicion that he backs away from. He does the latter with Refa, Shinori, and Eclipse. And after so many posts discussing how Fleur was buddying, I really dislike that he just dismissed it with "Fleur is just trying to seem helpful" and he still hasn't explained why the buddying thing is a point against SB instead of Fleur. In fact when SB points this out he turns it against him and says that SB is complaining that his (RD's) vote is still on him. I still think Refa is suspicious but as far as consolidation goes, I would prefer lynching RD to SB, and it seems like it's going to be one of them rather than Refa. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Radiant Dragon

I don't see how Bearclaw's reads being inconsistent with Boron's makes a difference. They're different people and are likely to have different reads. Just because from Bearclaw's POV all of Boron's posts came from a townie mindset doesn't mean that her reads are any more likely to be correct. Wen didn't try and build a misdirected lynch. He said that if one happened, that was better than a no lynch. I'll get to the rest of that wall in the morning.

Crap, there are 24 less hours in the phase than I thought there were. I should be able to make a post or two in the morning, but after that I don't think I'll be able to post before phase end. I would be fine with lynching either Refa or RD. Bearclaw/Xinny- why is "I'm new" not a valid excuse for being hesitant about your reads? How confident of your reads were either of you in your first game? This seems to be the main reason for the Green Poet wagon, which is why I don't support it. I don't really like want to lynch SB. Looking at the wagon, RD reads like he should be voting Fleur and still hasn't explained why he isn't. Shinori and Marth both seem to be voting SB because of long back-and-forths with Refa that don't really give a hint towards his beliefs about Refa, and for not having much other content. The former is fair enough, but the latter seems mostly borne of the fact that SB hasn't posted in almost 24 hours. It seems more like he's absent than lurking to me. Speaking of absent players, where did kirsche go?

I want to see (a lot) more effort from Wen, but I honestly think that his first post was null. A lot of the older players who were more used to OC have similar sort of viewpoints about in-thread posts (read Proto's posts where he talks about in-thread posts as being subjective fluff and role claims and results as the only objective way to find scum). Shin, how does the fact that Green Poet unvoted you change your case?

I didn't word myself well. When I was talking about wagons, I was talking more about two people voting the same person in close succession. The second is more likely to be scum than the first. But that situation doesn't apply to you because you're not one of two people and also isn't ironclad. Also, state again for me why Shin's RD vote was weak. What you said about Shin's RD vote was "this isn't why I found RD scummy" and then went into an explanation of what made RD suspicious. Shin's vote being different from your's doesn't make it bad. And I think Shin suggested an RVS policy lynch in Healer? It was a joke, but so was what he did here, and honestly your entire case just seems like a bad initial vote followed by reasons to try and keep it on Shin. I don't think you're trying to twist her words; I think you're trying to twist the suspicion back onto her by saying that she's suspicious for defending Shin when that's not what she's doing. Like, do you think I'm defending Shin right now?

Pokemon Adventures R/B/G/Y

Not necessarily. My first setup was probably the best and the ones after have been worse (except for Inception, but that was a joint effort so it doesn't really apply).

Hmm, yeah, I think I like this better: ##Unvote, ##Vote: Refa. Still not sure about RD though. His SB vote feels weak. SB has made so many posts and RD's entire case is off a contradiction between two of them and supposed buddying between SB and Fleur. If RD really had conviction in the contradiction he found, I feel like he would be trying to bolster it through an analysis of SB's other posts, which he isn't. And the "buddying" is one-sided and on Fleur's side. If Fleur abruptly dropping her case on RD to wagon Eclipse with SB is so bad, then why isn't he voting Fleur instead of SB? After all, scum can also wagon people with other townies. It's the person that's wagoning that's scum more often than the person who actually started the wagon.

I realized I'd been skimming Refa's Shin case because everyone is posting so many words, and on first glance, I kind of have to agree with Boron. This is Refa's initial justification for the Shin vote: "Shin's vote is a bad vote because it feels like a refuge in audacity (thanks Prims, I'll never get that trope out of my head now...). I call him out on being reactionary, so he responds by making an obviously reactionary vote on me. There's no way scum would be so obvious...right? Also his RVS shenanigans are giving me Semi-Precious vibes." His reasoning is basically that Shin was WIFOMing by doing something that's very obviously "scummy". But why is he WIFOMing? What suggests that it's WIFOM rather than just a joke that's null of alignment? And the SP vibes thing is just out of nowhere and he elaborates on it as Shin doing sillier things in RVS as scum but I'm pretty sure Shin is just always silly in RVS. And I looked through the rest of Refa's ISO and... that's literally the majority of it. He says that he talked about why Shin's RD vote was bad, but all Refa says is that his own reasoning for finding RD scummy is different from Shin's justification. That's well and good, but that doesn't make Shin's vote weak by itself. What also pings me is that Boron isn't defending Shin- she's attacking Refa's case on Shin, which is maybe chainsaw defence, but certainly not the white-knighting that Refa is implying, and the way it's worded seems like Refa is trying to twist it back onto Boron, which I don't like either. Will get to some other posts after dinner.

Shinori: I switched my vote from Refa to RD last night, so I have no idea what your vote is about. You also say you don't really like Eclipse (but that she's not your top priority), and then denounce her wagon at the same time. Mind explaining? A lot of your stuff just seems really arbitrary. Like why do you think one of SB and Refa is scum? I don't really see the contradiction that RD is pointing out in SB's posts. Additionally, even if it was there, he seems to be focusing a lot more on Fleur than him, for someone who has his vote on SB, and he's also trying to draw associative reads between SB and Fleur when neither of them have even flipped. Plus, if two people finding the same person suspicious in close succession was buddying, why not accuse me and Boron for similar stuff on his wagon?

At the time of the vote, the only discussion was about Shin, which, whatever you say, didn't interest me as far as suspicions go. All it told me was that Fleur and to a lesser extent Green, were being really tryhard. I also didn't find Refa suspicious after the initial explanation, so didn't feel like keeping my vote there. RD was better than anything else at that point. And I dislike switching votes without hearing a response from the person I originally voted for, which is why my vote is still there. Kirsche, if SB and Xinny were making bad cases on newbs, is that suspicious or not? You didn't include them in your list of scumlist, but then what was the reason behind pointing those out? Xinny, why is Green Poet worse than the other people you call out in your posts? Also, why are you dismissing a lack of confidence as a valid defence? Not biting on opportunities because you're unsure is the definition of lack of confidence. Yes, it can be an excuse for scum, but it can also be an excuse for new players, and I don't actually see an attempt on your part to distinguish between the two. Also I'm really mad and annoyed at myself because of irl stuff so I might not post for a while.

Fleur, why is Eclipse not contributing worse than RD? A few posts not contributing in RVS don't mean much. It sucks that people don't always try to push things along in RVS, but the fact is that townies as well as scum don't try as much that early on when there isn't anything happening. As such things go, we've had a pretty short RVS actually. Eclipse is correct that my Refa vote was purposely wagoning. In RVS, unless something really sticks out to me as bad, I try to vote someone who already has a vote or two on them for reactions. The RD vote was voting for something I found suspicious despite someone already having pointed that out. RD's justification of his Shin vote, that Shin seemed eager to start a wagon, when Shin was the first person voting for Refa, didn't make any sense. I wasn't going to avoid voting for him just because I didn't find anything new to add in. Kirsche- RD's recent explanation was what I voted him for. >_> Eclipse harping over Fleur not knowing exactly what OMGUS means despite having shown an okay understanding of mafia doesn't really impress me. I didn't know what OMGUS and WIFOM were until I'd played several games, and stuff like "sheeping is bad" is generally picked up far before the exact meanings of different terminologies. In fact, the notion that sheeping is always bad is probably an even stronger indication of being new to mafia. I don't like the last sentence of that same post either. It's only one sentence so it's not really padding, but really, what's the point of saying that the people she hasn't spoken about yet don't interest her? People get that she's not going to have something to say about all 15 other players 8 hours into the game.

I don't see the point of discussing chainsaw defences until one of them actually flips scum. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Radiant Dragon tired and sheeping what Boron said in her last post

It seemed like you were trying to discredit it because the bit about Shin had an ellipsis at the end idk (oh god I feel like I'm Grassbridger)

##Vote: Refa What's the point of pointing something out if you're just going to discredit it right after?

role received

#YOLO #MafiaAddictionTM /in I'll be Brass.

Why is it that old players come back and start playing when I'm busy? ;_;

Objection did not submit an action.

Yeah town played kind of terribly in just about every aspect. Their scumreads were trash and as I posted in the graveyard, they spent time creating dichotomies for no reason. Another thing towards Poly- you coasted on your claim really really hard. The point behind your role was a confirmed town that still had to work to become confirmed town rather than just targeting someone N1 like a regular friendly townie does, so that they'd still have motivation to contribute. Also, seriously dude? If you don't get your role, ask the mods. We even asked you if you needed clarification and instead you just posted completely wrong stuff until we had to explicitly tell you ourselves.

9 players alive; 5 to lynch; nobody voting anybody; 34 hours left.

Inception Mafia Strege (6): Refa, kirsche, Poly, Grass, Quote, Euklyd Rein (1): j00 Quote (4): Strege, SB, Rein, Boron Voteless Town (0): nobody You guys went back and forth and finally decided that Strege couldn't be allowed to live anymore! After all, no self-respecting member of the Russian Mafia could be as bumbling as him, could they? Strege has been lynched. He was Ivan, Mafia Compulsive Vigilante. You have 24 hours to get in actions. Won't penalize anyone for posting past deadline, but post preview next time.

hammer shut up

2 minutes left