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Vig is a bad fake to make this early in the game, so I'm inclined to believe it, and there's plenty of time to see if Elie can't prove it. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Marth His reads are really weak and both sort of stemmed from flavour/rolespec (Rein for the Fire Nation thing, and Strege for suggesting an SB lynch). Psych, did you miss that Prims admitted that he was faking Numbers to try and get Slayer to confess? Also, asking for people to say whether they are a bender or a nonbender doesn't really mean anything because role, element, and probably alignment, are all unrelated to that, so I don't really see it as rolefishing tbh. The rest of his post is mainly flavourspec. Not really sure if Psych is just being Psych or what; it's been a while since I've played a game with him. Also fine with lynching Shinori because he's had more than enough time to read through the thread and come up with better stuff than that.

Blitz brings up some good points about Slayer's claim, though I'm not sure it was stated anywhere that everyone has to be a bender. Slayer's attempt at scumhunting was kinda lackluster. Though I don't disagree with what he said about Shinori, it's also a pretty easy vote. It is also officially not the weekend in Kay time, so hopefully she can come and post soon.

Okay, I missed that, but why do you think that what Strege said is scummy and not just a new player who didn't get the logic behind lynching Slayer as opposed to lynching SB?

What the hell, Marth, you didn't even say anything about Strege.

Marth's Rein vote is kind of bad because it uses flavour as its main reasoning. I understand mentioning it as a side point, but seriously, out of more than 200 posts, that's the best you can come up with? I see Shinori reading the thread, so hopefully he'll post something good. Kiryn, why do you think Psych is town? Furthermore, you're doing the same thing he did and finding someone scummy just because their opinion differs from your's That's not a reason for suspicion.

And also, you're not confirmed Survivor. All you are is confirmed not-town. There's still the option of you being mafia.

I don't mind lynching you today (or tomorrow might be better to give our theoretical Vig a chance to shoot you first) if you're just going to coast and then backstab us at LYLO. If you start actually scumhunting, then you're giving us a reason to want to keep you around. But like I said, you have to make the first step, not us, and right now, you're not even attempting to scumhunt.

Slayer, no. We've got the power here. Us lynching you might cause us to lose out on a day, but it doesn't make us automatically lose. It makes you automatically lose. If you want us to keep you around, you've got to make the first step, not us.

Psych's counter to my point against him was terrible, btw. Giving reasons for suspicions isn't "throwing stuff around willy-nilly". However, Grassbridger, Psych having different opinions from you doesn't make him scum. Whether or not someone looks scummy or townie isn't subjective, and town don't know anybody's alignment except their own. Do you have scumreads on anybody other than Elieson? Also, there's no real point to outing townreads unless either you or your townread looks like they're in danger of dying.

The difference is that SB, if telling the truth, is still a member of the town who wants to help town win. Slayer, if telling the truth, is not a member of the town and has no reason to help town win. The worst case of lynching Slayer is that we lynch somebody who isn't guaranteed to want to help us, while the worst case of lynching SB is that we lynch a member of the town. Slayer, if you're going to help town win, where is your scumhunting? Your content so far has consisted solely of voting Mancer for his Boron shenanigans.

Also, I saw Grassbridger reading the thread a little while back, but he's not reading it anymore? Would be cool if he gave opinions. Psych's posts seem to be very sparse and just sort of throw stuff around without a real reason behind them. The most memorable thing I can remember him doing is him outing he got redirected, and I didn't even really like the manner in which he did it.

Your vote doesn't lose weight if you use it more. A townie's vote is one of their strongest scumhunting tools, and there isn't a real reason to not be voting your strongest scumread at any point other than MYLO/LYLO.

The point isn't that FTP is fishing, it's that he isn't contributing in any other way other than to call for element claims. Elements don't have anything to do with alignment, so it's not helping town move closer to catching scum. It's just white noise. Marth, do you have any scumreads? All you've said so far is that you think Mancer looking bad doesn't mean anything, and that me and FTP are town. The point about me in particular is sort of weird because there isn't even any real pressure on me atm. I can see why you might want to defend FTP if you think he's town, but there aren't any votes on me other than Shinori's RVS vote.

Not discouraging element discussion would have let me blend in just as well, possibly better, as I was the first person to say anything against it, IIRC. And seeing as the people who initially said that element-claiming would be a good idea aren't getting voted solely based on that, WIFOM in that aspect wouldn't have been useful. There's a time for WIFOM and there's a time when doing it is dumb, and discouraging element discussion and being the first to point out that the mafia might have an element-related role falls in the latter. Wrt my Slayer vote, Eclipse, you're assuming that Slayer is actually neutral and not scum faking. Also, placing my vote on him never meant that I was planning on doing nothing for the rest of the phase. As for the cabbages guy thing, yeah, that wasn't actually a point against you Elie; just sort of frustrating that you gave Slayer an easy fake to make if he's scum. I don't like FTP's posts, but I feel that whether he's town or mafia, he's being genuine about being out of his depth here. So I'm still null on him.

gj giving possibly faking scum a convenient fake, Elie. Suggesting a character for him literally took out the entire purpose of him claiming his character in the first place. >_> Whatever, still perfectly okay with a Slayer lynch but if people want to leave him for now, ##Unvote, ##Vote: Elie. Back to that. I'll wait for Shinori's "content-post" to see how scummy I find him. I definitely dislike that he just handwaved everything in the first five pages and didn't offer even a single opinion. Not sure what to think of Elie's reasons for unvoting me. Slayer being third-party doesn't prevent me from being third-party, especially as Slayer didn't even claim a harmful third-party like he was suggesting I might be. He also unvoted while still kind of maintaining that his original reasons for voting me were good. If he'd suddenly changed his mind about his reasons, I would have thought that kind of scummier, because it would have read like capitulating just to get the pressure off, but at the same time, his original reasons weren't good, so idk.

Still down with lynching Elie if people don't want to go after the Survivor claim, because he seems to have a lot of really weak scumreads as opposed to even one good read. His strongest read still consists of "BBM said anti-town instead of mafia; must be scum!", which is pretty grasping. FTP's attitude that a D1 lynch is a randomlynch kind of bothers me, though it might just be one that stems from playing games that rely more on roles than scumhunting. I mean, yeah, D1 is when we have the least amount of info, but that doesn't mean we can't make educated guesses. Waiting around for the Cop to out scum doesn't achieve anything, especially as they could just die N1 and leave town shit up creek without a paddle.

Well then, this makes our job a lot easier. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Slayer Either Slayer is telling the truth and we're just lynching somebody who's going to side with the mafia in LYLO for an easy win, or he's lying and he's scum. Either way, I have no qualms with lynching Slayer. He should probably also fullclaim his character right away to prove that he's actually a Survivor and not scum trying to bullshit. If he was scum and given a character fake, it would probably be someone who would likely be a member of the town, not someone who would likely be independent. For the new players: Survivor is a third-party role that wins if it is alive at the end of the game. So a common (and probably optimal) strategy for survivors during LYLO/MYLO is to side with the mafia and win a joint victory with them.

That was like barely anything dude. And it doesn't even really make much sense. What does the fact that the game hasn't been going on for even 12 hours have to do with deciding whether or not posting useless stuff is scummy or not? Again, what do you think about the people on your wagon? What do you think about Rein? On a side note, giving the mafia character fakes in a game with flavour is pretty standard practice, and SB's already claimed his element, so I don't really think that it matters whether or not he claims his character at this point. My two cents about the Elie wagon are that although I think he's scummy, I wouldn't be surprised if someone on his wagon is scum trying to bus. Some of the later votes, particularly Blitz's vote, seem sort of weak to me.

What's more scummy about Elie's vote against me is that it's literally like his only scumread. Okay, you think Mancer's play is poor but still probably town. So your strongest read after that is my speculation? You haven't mentioned anything yet, as far as I can see, that doesn't relate to me, Mancer, or defending yourself (which really goes back to Mancer too). From your POV, this wagon against you must be total shit, but I don't see you attacking it. You're attacking me, but since I was the first vote IIRC, it's not really the same thing. Strege, you should focus less on speculation. What do you think about the reasons people have for voting Elieson and Rein/Liquid Snake?

Elie, okay, I did in fact miss the fact that you said later that the part about Mancer was sarcasm. My apologies. Doesn't change the fact that I said nothing about wincons and stuff like you're saying. All I said was that it's a possibility that the mafia have a role that would benefit from knowing people's alignments. And again, if my role was related to elements like you suggest, and I were mafia, why would I discourage element-claiming? And now I actually am going to say something about wincons because I'm not sure if Slayer just made a big derp or a scumslip, but My wincon states that town is Team Avatar, so either you glanced over your role PM really quickly and didn't retain the fact that it's highly unlikely for the Avatar team to be scum, or you're scum and don't know that the town is literally called Team Avatar.

Most of what Rein has said so far can be summed up as "I looked up character X on wikipedia and flavour makes sense gais". Take your Mancer prod. Is it scummy that his logic with regards to Roku is wrong because Roku is kind of important, or is it scummy that he's basing votes off characters in the first place? Your prod against him seems to imply the former, but (IMO) it's the latter that's scummy, so I don't particularly like it. Shinori, you've had over an hour to read the thread, and there hasn't been that much content yet. Thoughts?

I said that it's a possibility that anti-town have an element-related role. That's it. That possibility, combined with the fact that element != alignment, is what I was trying to use to show why element claiming might not be a good idea. Also, if I were scum and we did indeed have an element-related role, why would I be discouraging element claiming? I would be encouraging it, because it'd help scum out. Also, considering half of that post complains how nobody is doing anything other than flavourhunting, why does your vote against me relate to that? Additionally, I don't like what you said wrt Mancer. You don't think he's scummy, but you'd be up to lynching him just to clear the thread of confusion? That's the sort of shitty logic that led to town lynching him in Folgore Rangers after he claimed Doctor. There's ED1 logic, and then there's bad logic.

It's been like three hours since phase start and Kiryn, Prims, Slayer, and Grassbridger still haven't posted. Come on guys, lives and timezones aren't an excuse. Look at SB staying up until 5 am to claim PGO; what a trooper.

I agree with what Mancer said. It kind of looks like Elie is pushing the lynch while still saying he thinks Mancer is town. This sort of pings me in comparison to others such as Boron who while pointing out the logical flaws in Mancer's reasoning, aren't actually pushing him.

Strege, don't forget to bold your votes. Also, in case you haven't found the meanings of the claimed roles yet, Miller: Scans as Mafia when inspected by a Cop despite being aligned with the Town. PGO: Anyone who targets them for whatever reason is automatically killed. I don't particularly want to vote/lynch Mancer due to the Miller claim. IMO if the Vig thinks he's scummy they can shoot him. Elie, do you have any reads other than "Mancer is scummy but also probably Miller"? I don't particularly like the Eclipse vote though I guess it could be RVS.