BBM

First off, seriously Psych? I don't generally expect a lot from you, but that was one of the most anti-wincon things I've seen since Slayer in SFMM2. Second of all, I'm Pakku (the waterbending mentor), Town Cop. I crumbed this heavily with how hard I pushed for the Shinori lynch after his claim. My scans: N0: Mancer- Scans Fire Nation. I voted him right away and was going to claim after he posted, just to make sure he couldn't claim Miller, except then he really did claim Miller, which was highly rage-inducing. N1: Eclipse- Scans Team Avatar. With Psych and Blitz both dead, there's a good chance we don't have any other protective roles, so I might as well out this. N2: Baldrick- Scans Fire Nation. ##Vote: Baldrick

That's just about as much of a confession of guilt as we're going to get. Might as well hammer him, Grassbridger.

Just remember that we need two votes for a hammer, not one.

FtP (2): SB, Mancer Psych (7): Marth, BBM, Strege, Baldrick, Boron, Rein, Eclipse Blitz (1): Grass Boron (1): Blitz Mancer (1): FtP Baldrick (1): Kay Voteless (3): Elieson, Slayer, Psych

Okay, Psych is at L-5 after that Baldrick vote. I see Rein and Elieson reading the thread and would like them to state which of FTP/Psych they'd rather lynch (can't remember if one of them is voting one of those two already). Boron, if you're still convinced that Blitz is scum, can you also be convinced that Blitz is at least most likely not getting lynched today? People who're not voting one of Psych or FTP should vote them IMO. I know the Psych wagon has started very recently, but there were a good amount of votes on him earlier.

Because the claim has literally no scum intent in it. Blitz getting Elie to confirm himself doesn't get towncred for Blitz, just for Elie. Even if Elie shot town (which he shouldn't really because Slayer is claimed not-town). And games are lost by scum more often by scum PoEing themselves than from playing badly. Even if Elie shot someone other than Slayer and they flipped town, Elie confirming himself isn't worth that. CMV got kind of bad near the end, but I think town played well for most of the game, and IIRC Anonydraft and Strip were both games where town won pretty handily. They were also games with a relatively small amount of unwanted drama. We have like two and a half hours to get our act together. Largest wagons are Psych and FTP tied at 3, which is L-6. I'll switch to FTP if I really have to, but meh.

Also RTFR mafia was a joke game, so I wouldn't really bother reading it if you're looking for examples of how to play. Read some of the anonymous games (Anonydraft, Strip, or Choral Mafia V imo), because town (at least on SF) generally plays better in anonymous games.

It's townie because it would be terrible play from scum perspective. I'd go for Psych > FTP in who to lynch today. IMO scumteam are somewhere among Psych/FTP/Baldrick/SB/Slayer. Eclipse has claimed Safeguard, so unless mafia have a redirecting role that they can use to move Eclipse off Elieson so that they can hook him, I don't think there's a chance for it to fail. Or unless a protective role targets Slayer for whatever reason.

The way Blitz claimed is incredibly townie and the wagon on him is therefore crap. You don't crumb your role on D2 and say that you're going to get someone lynched the next day if they don't prove their role, because if Blitz had then gotten Elie lynched D3 and Elie had flipped town, Blitz would have tied himself way too much to that lynch and would probably have gone down D4. Psych, are you the type of Bodyguard who dies for their target or are you the type of Bodyguard who just protects their target at no harm to themselves? In either case, why did you think you would be able to lead the town using that claim? I don't trust it and it feels odd to me because Bodyguard type A dies after proving their role, and you should know that Bodyguard type B should never be outing themselves willy-nilly, especially since you made a big deal about people throwing info around on D1 in a retort to me. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Psych because that claim makes no sense with how he's acted. If people don't want to lynch him, I guess I could go for FTP (and Baldrick obviously, but that doesn't look like it's going to work out today).

Reading some of the Psych votes, particularly FTP's and Grassbridger's, Kay is right. Neither of them even really say that they think Psych is bad, just that they want him to post more. So yeah, I think they should answer what Kay asked them. FTP's vote is still there IIRC. Him using it as a pressure vote in this case is kind of weird because of how hesitant he was of voting anyone for pressure earlier. Why are you okay with using your vote for those purposes now if you weren't earlier?

Actually, I was rereading, and I realized that the existence of the Miller would tell the mafia that there is definitely a Cop, meaning when Shinori made the claim, he was probably expecting to get CCed. In that case I actually don't think Kay would switch away from Shinori, since she would be expecting a Cop CC anyways. So yeah, changing my mind here. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Baldrick I dunno, I didn't really like Kiryn's one post and don't really like Baldrick's post here. Why does Mancer being Miller prevent him from doing any of those things? I admit that Mancer went overboard a bit with attacking rolefishing, but he misrepresents Mancer's vote with his second point. Also, yeah, Psych saying that was weird, but why was it a scummy thing to say? He just says he agrees with the Psych wagon but doesn't say why and his point against FTP and most of everything he said was not very original (though I guess it's difficult to be original after subbing in). Also, I think people are reading too much into Elie being blocked. Scum have a Hooker and there weren't any other outed PRs. Why not hook Elie and prevent him from proving his role and becoming somewhat confirmed town? I don't think it has to mean that mafia wanted to keep Slayer specifically alive.

The thing is, that's really the only defence to an attack consisting of using Shinori's "clear" on Boron against her. If the attack had been something else and Boron had then responded using that as a defence, I could have seen your point, but she's basically obligated to make that defence if someone says "you're scum because Shinori faked a clear on you".

grr words Strege, what are your opinions on Kay?

To be fair, Boron wasn't saying that Shinori saying she was town made her town, just that it didn't make her scum either. She says it means nothing, not that it means she's scum.

SB, you haven't posted yet this phase. Thoughts on Marth (has your opinion of him changed?) and what reads you got from the Shinori lynch. Kay, why do you think that Elie might still be scum after the vig claim? When you stopped voting him, you didn't really say anything about it, which is kinda weird. If it was because the vig claim was so obvtown that you didn't want to lynch it, why are you still slightly suspicious of him? Otherwise if you were still kinda iffy on Elie even after the claim but didn't want to lynch him right then, then why not say something about it there?

Kay, who do you think is scummy? I'm currently finding fault with you for the reasons you gave about me last phase. You're making some prods against Psych, but you're not voting anybody and you're mostly just defending yourself.

This argument is useless and doesn't really help the town in any way. You guys are talking less about the game and just yelling at each other over perceived slights at this point, whether or not they were there. Mancer, do you have any non-flavourspec scumreads? Psych, seriously, do something. Even though not pushing your scumreads just because nobody else is pushing them is dumb, if you're going to do that, push someone. Don't just sit there and point out the obvious.

Psych, if your opinions about Rein haven't changed, where's your vote?

Well, Rein voted Shinori at a point when two people had just unvoted and changed to Marth over Shinori. Rein could easily have been the tipping point there to convince people that Marth was a better lynch, but he voted Shinori instead, making me think he's probably not scum.

Psych, weigh in on something other than just the obvious "Prims got Janitored". Are you opinions about Rein still the same, or did they changed based on Shinori's flip? What about your scumreads on me and Eclipse?

Kind of expected that to be honest. Well, I reread some over the night and decided 2 things. I think Prims was right about Marth, but I don't really agree with him about Kay. Like I said earlier, her defence of Kay read sort of like white knighting, and I think due to what Shinori claimed, and because Boron unvoted just before her, she might have decided to see if they could swing it off Shinori, and she wouldn't really have been blamed because Cop claim. ##Vote: Kay

I still think Marth is scum because the "scumslips" he was going after seemed more like an effort to not have to come up with actual reads than town getting excited from catching a perceived scumslip. If Marth is mafia, Kay is probably town but if he's not, IMO she might be scum despite her moving off Shinori because her Marth opinion reads to me like mafia white knighting for town, and IMO if she really felt Marth was town and she didn't want to lynch Shinori, she would have tried to start a powerwagon on someone else. Dunno.

BPV is an item but simply having one is also very often a role, to the extent that if you can't pass it around, it's more of a role than an item.

Shinori said something like "Your role sucks" to Prims, which could be him trolling or could be that the mafia investigated Prims on N0. No real justification should be needed for a Shinori vote at this point, he all but said "I'm mafia".