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This, basically. Also consider that if Elieson is uncultable, he can only die via lynch or kill. He's obviously not getting lynched, meaning the only way he can really die is via mafia nightkill. That's an extra incentive for him to buddy up with them. Anyways, I've said as much about Elie as there is a point to saying, and tbh he probably has claims from most of the game anyways, so I doubt it'll make too much of a difference at this point. Also, I think we should start narrowing down some of these vanilla claims. To my knowledge, almost half the game has claimed Vanilla, which doesn't sit very well with me. ##Vote: Cam Even though he's been saying for a whole cycle now that he thinks someone on Mancer's wagon is scummy, he's barely followed up on it at all. He commented on the Kay lynch similarly, saying that it was a stupid wagon, but he hasn't actually made any attempt whatsoever to narrow down who might be scum on it. As I said D1, a lot of his contribution is extremely half-hearted and I haven't still seen a single definitive scumread from him.

Haha I've just been busy. This weekend I sware.

BTW I should clarify. I do NOT want Elie lynched. He's probably town or at worst a non-harmful ITP. He's most definitely not aligned with Void or Werewolves. I just don't trust him enough for him to be town leader. What I'm saying against him right now is just an attempt to stop anyone who hasn't already claimed to him from claiming. He has enough town claims already for him to get along with the mafia.

It was at the very end of N0/very beginning of D1. Sho has some kind of similar logs to that as well. Also, ##Unvote for now because I've realized that since Sho said in the main IRC channel that he wasn't the one who gathered the ingredients together, if the mafia knew that the other two people were Rapier and Rein, they had a 50% chance at getting the stone by killing Rein. I'm still not sure that Sho is town but I don't think Rein's death definitely proves that one of him or Rapier is scum.

A log with Elie, with some lines bolded as to why we shouldn't trust him. Notice how here he says only that he wins if the void is eliminated before he dies, not that it's an additional condition required for him to win.

You are a Citizen of Antioch. You win if the Werewolves and the Void are eliminated. You are also the <CUT>. You only win as long as the Void is eliminated while you are still alive. This is the full wincon Elie just claimed to me. It could just as easily be: You are a Citizen of Antioch. You win if the Werewolves and the Void are eliminated. You are also the <CUT>. You also win as long as the Void is eliminated while you are still alive. I would really encourage people who have not yet claimed to Elie to not do so, especially those with PRs. I was a bit dumb and didn't realize earlier that his wincon means he could joint with mafia (if it's the second option). If Elie can alternately win by killing cult before he dies, jointing with mafia allows him to get access to a kill every night to help hunt down the backup Cult Leader. And the mafia want to kill the cult too, plus they get all the claims from Elie to hunt down after the CL is dead and Elie has won the game.

a) WIFOM b) Because you're still town and you would (I hope) have alerted the town anyways. So he took the opportunity to say it first.

Also, I'd like Elie to post his wincon in the thread before people start sending him claims, or this could turn into a second Haphazard really soon.

Rein wasn't as inactive as you're making him out to be. At the least he was more active than people like Core or Helios or Paulina. It makes more sense for Rein to have been killed because the mafia knew he had the stone. I highly doubt that if town!Sho went to the trouble of letting Rein have the stone ingredients so a thief couldn't know who had it, he would then leak to somebody that Rein had it. Out of Rapier and Sho, I distrust Sho more (though Rapier hasn't done much either). Mancer's reasons make no sense though wtf. ##Vote: Sho

Why would rein get shot in the first place? A good question, to which there is only. One answer- they knew he had the philosopher's stone. I'm pretty suspicious of sho right now. He was the mastermind behind getting the ingredients to come together, yet he picked rein to make them instead of himself. Possibly so that he could then take it afterwards with nobody knowing he had it. Also, the previous theory was that all three people with a stone ingredient were vanilla townies. Now that that's been disproven, rather than one cult and e town, doesn't one cult, one town, and one mafia make more sense? Combine this with sho's insistence that all three of them were town and his crazy theories about lucy, and the kay push, I don't like him right now at all.

Doing it on a cartridge is kind of difficult. It requires you to send a signal from a cart that has completed Normal Mode to your cart. Then there's an option in the menu that allows you to change the difficulty. It's considerably easier to do it on an emulator. You just have to go to Cheats, and enter the AR code that does it. Then after you change the difficulty, sometimes the game blacks out and refuses to continue. At this point you just have to remove the cheat from your list of AR cheats, and it should work again.

>_> I guess it could've been worse (we could have lynched a stronger PR) but that lynch was still dumb.

I'll repeat that I think you're misinterpreting Kay's replies to you and Scorri. But I don't think the lynch is going to change at this point, so I guess we'll just see after the flip.

As I said in that log, I would have been okay with lynching 13th, but support for that seemed to be dying out and I felt that if we were going to vote someone for not contributing, Cam was a worse culprit in that aspect than Kay, because while Cam has been much more active, he still hasn't done any scumhunting past "Mancer wagon built really fast".

You should have used the Tsukihime reference when they first left Vale, and compared the experience of seeing the world map for the very first time to the gaping maw of the hotel shark. Because, you know, those are more alike. Make shore to use any Fate/stay night references in a better way, Jedi!

Leg Ring Dew with 9 movement but no training cannot move fully every turn because other than just the siege tomes, the Pegs and mages and stuff can hurt him. So training helps him get to that bridge quicker. I don't know exactly how many turns this saves, but it's at least 3-4 I think. And yeah, Sigurd needs help. But he's got peeps like Cuan, Lex, Fin, and Lachesis. Guys like Midir and Beo are decent but superfluous. On the other hand, Dew has unique utility in C4 that can't be replicated by anyone. Again, I'm not saying Dew is amazing, just that he has a use. And also, remember why Dew was being recommended for a father. Look at the OP. The TC is specifically going to pair Lex with someone else. No one disputes that Lex is the best husband for Ayra, but without him, people were just trying to recommend some alternate fun pairings. Compare Dew!Skasaha to Noish!Skasaha and Holyn!Skasaha. Holyn!Skasaha has large leads in HP and SKL but the SKL one is kind of useless because Forrest cap is only 27 and Dew gives a base of 14 and a growth of 85%, which is plenty sufficient considering Skasaha starts at level 1. Dew gives a slight edge in SPD which is actually slightly relevant because Holyn!Skasaha actually falls short of capping SPD on average by a couple points. Dew also gives a small edge in STR, which Holyn!Skasaha also fails to cap. Holyn's large HP growth is important, admittedly, but Dew gives Sol, which makes up for it partly because that boosts survivability a bit. On the other hand, Holyn gives Luna, which while nice, is unnecessary because they have overkill offence with Astra as it is. Dew also gives Bargain, which is not amazing but is still nice. So they're all in all pretty even. As far as Noish goes, he gives inferior or equal growths everywhere except HP, but again, Dew has Sol to make up for it, and the HP lead isn't as large this time. And again, the skills Noish gives are offensive, while Dew gives a defensive skill, which is more useful.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Cam My reasons for this are in the log of the main IRC channel that either Rein or Scorri should post soon, too lazy to type it again.

Questions always have more impact behind them if they're backed by votes. It tells the target of your question, as well as the rest of the thread, that you're serious. And in any case, around this time we need to start moving towards a lynch and as far as I know we haven't decided on anybody yet.

All the horsethief jokes... I SENSE SOME NEGATIVITY HERE.

I'd like to post a log from my discussion with Paulina, as she shared her question towards me before she made her post. [12:26:29 AM] Rohan Kulkarni: it was a leap, i'll admit [12:27:09 AM] Rohan Kulkarni: but voting for someone doesn't necessarily think that you want to lynch them right then [12:27:17 AM] Rohan Kulkarni: especially that early into D1 [12:27:43 AM] Rohan Kulkarni: i wanted to see what he'd say to my accusation, and since i was a bit suspicious of him from earlier because of his attitude concerning his role [12:27:48 AM] Rohan Kulkarni: i voted for him [12:28:15 AM] Rohan Kulkarni: and then his reaction to what i said made me more certain he was scum, and then it became a more solid vote [12:29:04 AM] Rohan Kulkarni: and then lucina told me that mancer couldnt have visited shinori as he said, which made me really sure he was scum for a while [12:29:43 AM] Rohan Kulkarni: but then later she said that she'd misunderstood his role, and that he could indeed have targeted shinori [12:30:06 AM] Paulina: Can you explain that part to me a little more? I'm still confused on how Lucina plays into this. Did her role absolve him of guilt, or just make his claim possible [12:30:50 AM] Rohan Kulkarni: i guess that's a good point [12:30:55 AM] Rohan Kulkarni: it doesnt necessarily absolve him of guilt [12:31:05 AM] Rohan Kulkarni: it just makes his claim possible [12:31:07 AM] Paulina: Hmm [12:31:35 AM] Rohan Kulkarni: but if his claim is possible, it goes back to being a leap in logic [12:32:02 AM] Rohan Kulkarni: and at this point we need to start moving towards a lynch and i'm not sure my reasoning there is strong enough for that [12:32:07 AM] Paulina: Well, I'd still like to make that post, but please feel free to add in your two cents. =) I just want to inspire more discussion. ynkow [12:32:13 AM] Rohan Kulkarni: yeah, of course [12:32:14 AM] Rohan Kulkarni: go for it [12:32:31 AM] Paulina: Yeah, I don't think there's enough of a case for a lynch on Mancer right now either So yeah, that's my response to that question (because screw actually typing it up again). Paulina, if you think Cam is scummy, why aren't you voting for him? At this stage, everyone should be voting for someone because we have like 24 hours left and less than 5 people have votes down, and I'm not even sure if all of those are meaningful.

##Vote: 13th His posts regarding me and Mancer were really indecisive and also kind of sheepy. He found both Mancer and I scummy, and was pushing both of our lynches for a while even though we were on opposite sides then. It felt like he was setting himself up to vote for either of us, and then the way he voted for Mancer was like "Well more people are voting for him" which is sheepy and also lets him back away from a mislynch by saying that a lot of other people were also saying the same thing. Also now that Mancer is probably not scum, FMPOV it looks like he was pushing both lynches because he knew either would be a mislynch. So he could like vote Mancer, and then say D2 that he found me scummy earlier, and I pushed Mancer really hard. This part is a bit weak and mostly a hunch, but the first part is valid IMO.

The thing is, if you have a competent Dew for Chapter 4, 9 move Dew (Leg Ring) and 9 move Sigurd is quicker than 6 move Dew and 12 move Sigurd (Leg Ring), since Sigurd getting there early just means you have to wait for Dew to catch up. Plus, an untrained Dew can't even fullmove every turn because he gets OHKOd by siege tomes and the stray Peg that your mounts might leave behind. Nobody is saying Dew is amazing, but training him has a purpose and having him chip the Cross Knights doesn't slow you down in any way. You can give those kills to someone else, sure, but your really good mounts (Sigurd, Cuan, Lex, Fin) will have no need of those kills and your average mounts and other foot units (Noish, Alec, Beo, Midir, Holyn, Ayra) don't do much with them. Giving them that EXP isn't that useful since Sigurd can roflstomp most stuff by himself. And plus, since it's not a draft playthrough, we are more likely to be using the aforementioned good mounts.

##Unvote Mancer If Mancer is confirmed to have targeted Shinori, he didn't target me. I think that any town aligned thief would have spoken up by now, meaning the person who did take my item is probably mafia aligned. If this is the case Mancer is probably not scum because I can't see why the mafia would need two roles that deal with item control. Other than that I'm kind of suspicious of 13th and Baldrick for how they've acted in-thread. Baldrick has jumped around a lot, mostly for not very good reasons, and 13th has been sort of waffly and indecisive.

Lucy believes that her role prevents her target from being visited by anyone else. Meaning you would have been unable to "barter" with Shinori unless you have higher priority than her. Also, you're the only person who's claimed a role that COULD cause me to lose my item. There is, as I said in my previous post, a possibility that there is another person with the ability to take my item. But, as I said earlier, I trust Lucy more than I trust you. So unless you have higher priority than her, I think it's likely you're lying about targeting Shinori. And if you ARE lying about that, it's hardly a stretch to imagine that you might be lying about not targeting me.