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Mancer, I'm not even voting Shin atm. Stop being so sensationalist. I'm seriously considering the possibility he's scum because I haven't liked his play and I'm not sure if his role outweighs the fact that other people have all done townier things than him.

yeah I felt that too but I couldn't think of anything other than co-drivers they could be >_> Yeah I noticed that about the interactions between Shin's role and Rapier's role, but if Shin is scum who's forced to use his role as a townie would then wouldn't it make sense for JK to not be usable at the same time anyways? Also Shin hasn't said whether or not his ability is 1x, or even whether it's Fire or Wind afaicr which would tip the balance quite a bit also I realized that we have two mislynches in hand so if Xinny/Eclipse/Mancer/Beli/Refa are town then we can BRUTE FORCE YEAHHHH also I think it's kind of weird that fire is like all KILLING POWER does town really need an infinite shot dayvig and a vengeful ?_? but I don't want to waffle on Refa townread >)> anyways gonna take a step back from this game for a bit

passive as in non-elemental

if Refa's BPV is passive and Poly and Mancer are co-drivers then I'm actually quite inclined to say that Shin is scum with restrictions on his role bc I feel that co-drivers + bpv + JK + my role would be enough protection.

my rolename would basically be claiming my abilities I'm fine with claiming it if we're going to massclaim anyways, but if not I'd rather hold off on it until either Xinny indicates a desire to shoot me or 2/3 of Poly/Eclipse/Beli indicate a desire to lynch me. Actually may as well be 1/2 of Eclipse/Beli because I don't expect Poly to go against the flow regardless of his alignment.

wait the census taker was dark nvm Refa, are you BPV only if Fire gets picked?

if you guys don't vote WIND idrc what we end up picking. The reason I don't know whether or not Holy is ok is because Eclipse still hasn't really been forthcoming about what she meant on D1 when she said that picking Holy would be really bad, so ??? Has anyone even claimed a Water role yet other than Refa's census taker or whatever?

fwiw the way Prims games generally work is that scum have their fakeclaim embedded into their role. They have 2-3 parts to their role and they claim one as their fake. I imagine that Prims when making the setup didn't feel as if the multiple JoaTs necessitated one being scum.

When I first started playing, I went for Domination with Mongolia and the Zulus. It's pretty fun and worked well on Prince and King, but once I started playing on Emperor and Immortal it became pretty difficult.

I guess that's true Is it bad that I was secretly hoping that Xinny would get strongmanned N2 so I could prove my role and become obvtown all in one bundle if I did it right

well, not hard-defend, but you know what I mean

oh I was looking at your tier list from when you subbed in I'M TIRED OKAY you really think I'd hard-defend both my buddies lol

Actually, SB, if I were scum, who do you think my buddy would be? You seem to be most suspicious of Shin after me, but Shin and I don't really make sense as buddies.

I'm probably going to have to end up fullclaiming at some point today anyways, so I have no real objections if you and Beli don't. I'm willing to go first in the popcorn claiming if that's the case. Me having done nothing scummy (other than the interactions) is not actually a scummy thing, I hope you realize. It's null. If you discount the interactions, your case is basically WOW YOU'RE PLAYING WELL YOU MUST BE SCUM. I'm not super-town in all my town games either. A bunch of people thought I was scum on D1 in SFMM4, and ironically the reason I wasn't lynched there and became obvtown instead was my interactions with flipped scum. The interactions in this game are a separate thing and you could vote for me based on that, but I think that the comparison of my play to SMT is flawed. I guess you're right in that my comparisons are flawed too, but I was really only making them in the first place because you started doing it first so idk. Also rereading you a bit made me realize that you were also pushing me for my Elie vote seeming contrived so then doesn't that go against my play just being very neutral? I don't really have a case on you as of the moment, no. I did reread you a little and realized that you were basically voting Marth for most of the day, which is pretty frustrating as far as being able to call you scum goes. At this point I've bumped you down to the same level as Poly and Shin but right now I feel like the more I read people the more I find reasons for them being town rather than scum, and I'm just bumping people down rather than up. Honestly it feels like someone must have hard-bussed Marf at this stage unless the remaining scum are Shin/Refa, which doesn't really make sense at all. I'm also very tired so I might take a nap. Or maybe play League.

Man you think a 55-45 vote is close? The 1995 Quebec referendum in Canada was like 50.5-49.5. For my part I was a little worried that if Scotland gained independence, all the renewable energy growth in Scotland would grind to a halt and they'd revert to the Northern Oil to finance themselves, so I'm a little glad that the vote was No. But I'm an outsider with no real stake in the matter, so.

oh yeah shit I totally forgot Refa vengeful stuff. So IMO he's less likely to be scum than Poly/Shin, but still more likely than Beli.

Well, the scum strategy of scumreading a buddy and then shifting to a townread on him after ED1. I was comparing Marth to Balcerzak here, not Randa (which you were too, so I'm not sure why you thought I was talking about Randa at all?). Also you're objectively wrong by saying that my play this game is objectively good because I was tunneling on Elie D1. You've said twice now since you subbed in that my play this game is like my play from SMT and I was the paragon of good play on D1/D2, but this isn't really the case at all. There have been a bunch of holes in my play and people have been scumreading me for most of the game Mancer you haven't played with me for over a year; please don't use meta arguments. Also you guys were super confusing with your role so whatever. But if you explicitly stated that Archer let Poly speak in the QT, I'm again unsure of why Marth targeted Poly. @Shin- uhhh I was casing you for all of D2 as well so I thought it implicit that the stuff I said with my vote here was not my entire case but just an addition to the stuff I said on D2. I was just looking at the Marth interactions here. But regardless I'm not sure why you wouldn't perma-guard your buddy over targeting some random townie as scum, so MEH. Anyways I'm having trouble just looking for scum at the moment so time for PoETM. Xinny/Eclipse/Mancer are all pretty obviously town. I think Beli's placement on the Marth wagon as well as the fact that Marth was trying to gun for him as a counterwagon over himself also points to Beli being town. I think Refa is town, and Shin's use of his role seems not-scum motivated to me. This leaves Poly/SB as most likely scum? Unfortunately, I've been kind of gut-townreading Poly's apathy as town for most of the game and I don't really remember Poly ever being a hardcore busser in his scumgames. Plus I feel like there have been so many scum neighbour(izers) lately that I feel like Prims would just make a town/town pairing this time. I was also townreading SB a little but icrr why, so I'll need to reread him. But yeah I'm leaning towards voting him because if I can't remember why I was townreading him then my townread there is probably the worst. If Poly actually isn't scum then maybe my gut townread on Refa is wrong (it doesn't really have a specific reason behind it; more of a holistic sense), or maybe Shin has some kind of restriction preventing him from targeting his buddies; idk. My vote for Xinvig is probably like SB > Poly/Refa/Shin > Beli right now but I want to reread SB and Via before committing to that. Xinny should probably not shoot right away in any case though. Eclipse- not sure what you mean by mixed feelings. Do you find my crumb more likely to be scum or town? Would people prefer me to claim my role fully?

wait fuck if Shin was scum and townreading his buddy that would be a great justification to perma-guard him ffffffff ##Unvote

Okay I was rereading Poly and now I'm majorly confused; he says that he wants Archer because he's Archer, but then said today that he couldn't do anything because Assassin wasn't selected. He does say that he's both Assassin and Archer, but if he needs both elements for his role to work, then after Fighter got picked, why would he even care whether or not Archer was picked? It wouldn't make a difference to him if he needed both. This is probably not indicative of scum but I'm just really confused about his motives. Ugh, I read both Beli and Poly and I don't really feel as if either are scum. They both had fairly early Marth votes, and although Poly dropped it after the claim I can't see him being scum who popped in-thread D2 pretty much just to bus his buddy. Mehhhhh I guess we'll see as the game goes on; it's possible I was just overthinking Marth's track choice, especially since Poly saying he had a Archer role might have made Marth think that Poly could act. therefore ##Vote: Shin his vote just feels like major wagoning to me and it just contributes to the overall feeling of him jumping onto wagons the entire game. Shin has not talked about my alignment prior to this post (the closest thing was saying I was null on D1). Also, he actually defended Marth more than I did, by stating he was town on D1 and defending him, and then chainsaw defending him again on D2 by attacking Beli's Marth vote. Yeah, I know that people can be wrong (I was too) but it just seems really hypocritical for him to talk about me defending Marth when he did it more. I guess he has the point in his favour that he didn't swing from a scumread to a townread on Marth like one could argue I did, but it still feels sleazy.

#selfmeta it makes me sad that you guys think I would pull the exact same scum strategy pretty much back-to-back. Not really much else for me to say in defence of myself. I can agree that my Marth interactions don't look good. I was also ~slightly townreading Marth at the end of D1, and therefore defended him a little, but I maintain that most of the Marth case after ED1 sucked, and I was really sure Elie was scum at that point. Also, Prims wanted me to re-quote this so it's in my ISO: Anyways I have to interview someone at 9 and then write an article on it by noon so uh, I'll try to read after that.

Requesting we choose Wind as our second element again); I can guarantee that it will allow me to do something more important than anything Mancer or Poly can with their Dark roles. ##Select: Fighter I'm kind of curious about why Marth would target Poly with the public track yesterday. Poly claimed Neighbour and implied rather heavily that his role was dark-aligned, so it doesn't really make sense from a scum perspective to target Poly if he's town. I mean, I guess if he submit it when he still thought he could survive, he might have been trying to use it in a "town" way, but then why not target Beli? That would also be a town way to use it and would give more info to scum (again, if Beli is town). This makes me feel that either Poly is scum and Marf was trying to give him towncred or Beli is scum, so Marth tracked Poly. Will read the two of them for Marth interactions tomorrow.

I wonder if Sutton will land actual top-20 superstar player when they get to the Premier league

and right shit I forgot about the elements; dunno where we are on picking a second one

We have less than an hour left and Marth is at L-1. Is anyone here to hammer?

Sutton for the treble in 2020