Life

I'll tackle this one paragraph at a time. 1. Because there is a downside to Jaffar dying. It might not affect the ranks specifically but it keeps us from possibly going to Night of Farewells, a chapter where we can get a lot of Exp, build up extra turns on Tactics (biggest amount of turns allowed to 5* that chapter is 28) and get the stuff, most notably the Fell Contract that we may want to use on a thief to promote. If we let Jaffar die, we lose out on all of these things. As for why Jaffar (not Nino) should get credit for getting us to 28x, I said it above but I'll just paraphrase myself. Recruiting Jaffar is the same as going to 28x. You cannot go to 28x and not recruit Jaffar. However, the opposite is not true as 28x is optional. 2. Would you mind repeating the NPC stuff? I missed it and can't find it. 3. What I'm trying to refute is this line: I do not agree that it is Nino who gets us this stuff. It is Jaffar who does because getting Jaffar comes with the perks of getting to NoF. I can recruit Nino and not Jaffar. I can't do the opposite. But he helps the ranks directly. As Dondon pointed out earlier, the results may not be significant enough to actually change the state of our run. Just because we CAN make the chapter a positive for the ranks doesn't mean it will be positive. What if we can only finish in 29 turns and still come under the Exp and Funds requirement for whatever reason? It would have been all in vain. I know that it's a bad "what if" but going to NoF isn't necessarily a positive. If we attribute the chapter to someone, let it go to Jaffar because it is a perk for recruiting him, not recruiting Nino. But if we don't because of whatever reason, nothing happens.

My big problem with GE's argument is that he claims that Nino gets you to 28x and should get credited for the chapter's spoils. The problem with that is that to do it, Nino has to recruit Jaffar or at the very least, fulfill the requirements to recruit Jaffar ("Jaffar - 26x/27 - 28x/29 - Automatically from the start if you talked to him with Nino during Ch 26 | 28 (and he survived)"). So rather than credit Nino for getting us to that chapter, we should be acknowledging that Jaffar is truly the one to unlock 28x as the requirement for 28x is "in Chapter 26 | 28, recruit Nino and make her talk to Jaffar. Jaffar must also survive Chapter 26 | 28". Recruiting Jaffar is what gets us to the side quest. Also, I prefer to distinguish between characters and units but supports don't enter into character conversation because it makes the unit better. If PCs can do something involving talking that makes that specific unit better, I see it more as a unit action. Nino talking to Jaffar in 28 doesn't make Nino better. It just recruits Jaffar for the next available chapter as 28x is optional and doesn't have to be played (ironically, Merlinus isn't fielded there because he can't be, thought I might add that).

I think I remember that argument that Dondon made. I'll see if I can dig it up sometime. The reason why I bring up all of these cases is because they amount to the same thing. We're crediting Nino for her personality as that is why she recruits Jaffar and unlocks 28x. If Nino gets credit for all of that, then it seems illogical to deny Prissy's personality as the reason to why Raven joins. It's not so that I don't have to deal with them. I'm not saying "look at this clusterfuck of stuff that moving Nino up by so much does". I'm saying "if we give Nino credit for being Jaffar's love interest and recruiting him (because that's the only way you go to 28x), then it seems hypocritical of us to deny the fact that only Prissy can recruit Raven and is indirectly responsible for his actions". Either we stay constant with ranking personalities or we don't. I have no problem with doing this as I can just argue for Lyn to go up since she can recruit people like Heath, Legault and Rath who are beneficial for different reasons.

I don't know, I'm torn on this issue. We can judge Karla and Wallace fairly because of what they do once they join or we can say that we have to do X, Y and Z just to get them when X, Y and Z are all negatives. Then Matthew gains credit for Guy's work, Serra for Erk, Erk for Prissy, Prissy for Raven, Raven for Lucius (roundabout way of saying that Serra gets credit for Lucius's work because without Serra, Lucius probably doesn't get recruited), Dart for Geitz, Florina for Fiora and Hector/Lyn for Hawkeye, Vaida, Heath, Legault, Karel and Harken (plus Eli, Marcus, Lowen, Isadora and Oswin). Why? Because those aren't "pure story driven events". What happens to the story if I don't recruit any of the above? Nothing. The biggest one is that Serra would get credited for Lucius' work (or Prissy because Erk can only be recruited by one of the two) which means that Raven's probably not going to be in Top anymore thanks to 3 or so units who get credit for his work. Only Matthew can get you Guy just like only Nino can get you Jaffar (getting Jaffar also goes to 28x but one is a product of the other because 28x is still optional). This is the problem with ranking CHARACTERS and not UNITS. Which you don't seem to understand. Matthew the thief gets you the Silver Card. If he was a fighter, he wouldn't be able to steal it. But he'd still be able to recruit Guy because that's Matthew the character's job.

I withdrew the post before Mikey claimed Doctor. To be honest, if I hadn't done that, you'd be dead and I have a feeling that you're innocent.

Are we ranking Nino the person or Nino the unit? Nino the person gets us all the shit that you mentioned earlier. Nino the unit does not. Whether we go to 28x has nothing to do with Nino's ability as it is a story driven event. Nino cannot claim all of those items as a boon for Funds because she hasn't done anything unit-wise to deserve it. It's like crediting the entire of chapter 13x and its by-products to whoever visits the village in 13. Is that truly fair?

This is the order of how stuff went. Mikey had 1 extra vote on him over CATS with one of my votes going to CATS. I rescinded my vote and changed it to a "no lynch" on the grounds that Mikey would probably get lynched anyways and me voting for someone else would put a target on my back if that person turned out to also be a townie. The next post is Mikey claiming Doctor. The post afterwards read: She didn't change to CATS, she just withdrew it completely. Very suspicious.

Who rescinded their votes on Mikey? I'm actually pissed now because we're going to lose him tonight but gain no info about a new kill and we'll probably end up lynching another citizen in the day phase. The more kills that the Mafia gets during the nights while we actually do something worthwhile in the day, the better. Whoever rescinded their votes just fucked us up if you ask me. It wouldn't surprise me if they were Mafia (Crysta, I'm looking at you).

What I'm personally seeing are reasons to tier Merlinus on a regular tier list as a unit. But this is an S Rank tier list where units are graded by how much they help or hurt the chances of S Ranking HHM. What does Merlinus do for the Ranks that makes him better than... Karla, for instance? I'm choosing Karla because she's at the bottom of the list and generally takes an arm and a leg to utilize properly in attempting an S Rank run. There is nothing that Merlinus does to help the ranks more than Karla (tanking Bolting shots for 0 Exp isn't helping the ranks more than killing and gaining Exp, no matter how you want to swing it). Furthermore, none of us can agree on whether he's a proper unit or not, never mind helping the ranks. If he gets on, he should be at the bottom of the list. Karla might be the most negative of everyone towards the ranks but everything she does is still beneficial in some way. Merlinus doesn't do anything for the ranks at all.

There's a couple of things that need to make a return or have to go. Aside from that, I'm fine. 1. The support convo cop-out of FE10 has got to die. FE9 probably had the best support system (convo + actual supports) so that should probably return. 2. Branched promos a la FE8. That was nice. But they have got to make Snipers a hell of a lot more useful from now on. 3. The Nomad --> Nomad Trooper class should return. I liked watching Dayan defy the law of physics with a Killing Edge in his hands. Obviously you can't be that stupid in a console FE game but it should still have its own class rather than just call it a Paladin who can use bows and swords. 4. What the fuck was wrong with the Fatigue system in FE5 that it hasn't been used since? It actually forced you not to spam your best characters every map (like FE9 Stefan wouldn't get the bench forever after The Feral Frontier in FE9). Bring that back please. I think that's everything... Oh and get rid of the fucking desert levels. God, I hate those with a passion.

Is this a serious statement or is it just out there for kicks? Because if it's serious, it's like saying that Hector should go up because he seizes thrones and gates, vital for moving on to the next chapter in order to conserve turns on the current map.

Changing my vote to no lynch on the grounds that voting for Mikey now is pointless (he's going to get lynched unless two more people other than me vote for CATS) and voting CATS or anyone else when I'm not even remotely sure of their guilt puts a target on my back. I'd rather not have anyone gunning for me saying "You voted for him and he turned out to be a townie!" so I'd rather remain neutral without harming the actual results.

Didn't I say this in Smash's FE10 tier list with regards to Micaiah?

My whole argument hinged on "he doesn't actually do anything, he's just there". It's only when I brought up the Ranks did I make the mistake of saying that he either auto-tops or auto-bottoms the list. But once again, Merlinus doesn't do anything. You can't deny this fact. He just sits on the field. Ninian/Nils do something turn after turn by refreshing people. What does Merlinus do aside from eat popcorn and sort out which Iron Sword has 25 uses left vs. which one has 26? We field Merlinus to hold items. But the extent of using him is just saying "Yes" to the question of "Do you want to field Merlinus". How is that similar to dancing?

Where did all this talk of "Mikey could be the vigi" come from? For all you know, I or Bal or Crysta or whoever could be the vigi. There is no proof of Mikey being the vigi and I only put forth my theory on who I thought got killed by who. Granted, the reverse doesn't make too much sense to me unless Ratatosk was actually scaring the Mafia with his "I'm the godfather" claims. That being said, I'm going with CATS. We need a lynch and me voting for Mikey just ties it up and gives the mafia a free kill. Sorry man, no hard feelings. EDIT: Unbolded from changing vote.

I feel ashamed in myself. I haven't put up any Sting or Prince yet. Hell, I know I've claimed that I've grown up listening to Motown but I lied. Sting and Prince have been ingrained into my system as "awesome". And they actually are. Prince is THE most talented man in music today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21TdUKO2T4w

Yeah, I get your example. You have a really good point. My impression of using a unit is talking about the command that they have and seeing how well they use it is what we're rating. That also extends to defense in the case of those who cannot fight but still use a command that does something important for the team (dancing, healing, rescuing).

Then why are we arguing? If I say that (example) Raven should drop to spot X because of Y reason and you claim that he should drop to spot X because of Z and not Y, why does it matter? We both think that he should end in spot X for whatever reason.

Apparently this guys says differently. If you honestly don't care, you wouldn't bitch about the "two years tennis experience" comments that keep getting made. No offense but you really should watch what you say.

The forum comment (even though it wasn't directed to me) was uncalled for, man. If you wonder why people call you names, it's because you continuously insult them. Also, I'm surprised that you've been staff on A forum, never mind apparently longer than Narga. And are you calling for Hector to move down a tier? Because "all the axe-mains should be pretty much in the same tier" also refers to him.

Switching up the order of what you said just because of my answer to it. Downside to fielding Raven in Dragon's Gate - Possibly knock out a cavalier, axe user (for the Hammer), any other unit who might be better than him at that chapter. Downside to fielding Merlinus in Dragon's Gate - None. This is my point. It's not that he doesn't cost a deployment spot, it's that your team doesn't benefit by not fielding him. If there is someone who is situationally better than Raven, then that is the downside to fielding Raven in that situation. But Merlinus has doesn't have problems like this because you're not better off leaving him off the field. This is a tier list towards S Ranking HHM. What does Merlinus do towards any of these ranks, especially when you consider that he is immune to the Survival Rank? He can't fight, he can't get you Exp and he can't clear a chapter more quickly. The only thing he can do is hold weapons and items, or essentially Funds. So does he contribute to this rank? Depends on your opinion of him. You can credit him for the items that he holds because that's all he does or you can choose not to, making him worthless. Sorry to say this but there's only black and white for Merlinus in this case. Are you in agreement to take him off the list? The only rank that Merlinus can affect is Funds and then it becomes a fuckfest of "do we give him credit for the one thing that he does or not". Also moving Hawkeye up tiers. Nobody's said anything against it for three days so I'm taking it as in "the community is in agreement". EDIT: Merlinus can't do anything for the Exp rank.

This is the only thing worth responding to because you never responded to my original point of "he just exists". We control Hector. We control Athos. We don't control Merlinus until he promotes and even then, it's basically the same thing except that he can move. We still don't control him as he has no actions for himself aside from "wait". For more than half the game, Convoy is just there. He doesn't do anything. I never said anything about the fact that he doesn't consume a unit slot, I'm saying that he doesn't actually do anything. But there is no downside to fielding him vs. fielding anyone else. I understand that you like playing Devil's Advocate but you're taking it to far. This argument is starting to sound stupid because I'm beating the same drum over and over while you take specific lines out of context ("no downside" doesn't mean "no unit slot"). EDIT: If you want me to say "he can't be selected or moved until he promotes and he doesn't appear on the unit select screen", then fine I'll say it. He can't be selected or moved until he promotes and he doesn't appear on the unit select screen. Therefore, he isn't a real unit. But somehow, even though this has been said in the past, Merlinus is still on the list.

But like I said, there is no downside to fielding Merlinus. The downside in fielding Raven is that we can't field someone else who might be situationally better than him. Merlinus gets attacked? Oh no! That's horr... wait a second, why don't we hang a unit back to kill that enemy for some Exp? We can use a weak unit or one we just got (namely Fiora in The Dread Isle) to deal with the enemy!