Athena_57
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Posts posted by Athena_57
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@Zeonth Actually Mackc never left Bartozio?
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9 minutes ago, Zeonth said:
Mack I was an early lynch on bart d2 and swapped to evan when bart didn’t have steam. This implies mack went from bussing one partner to bussing another. This is something I missed until athena had me go back to double check.
What conclusion are you drawing from this?
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@Fable Have you read RAD's stuff? How do you feel about it?
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8 minutes ago, Fable said:
It's not remotely the same.
If there's a SK we would need to talk about that, you don't ask who the vig is if you think there is one lol.
That statement was not referring to Mackc vighunting, that was referring to Mackc talking about the possible existense of an ITP.
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2 minutes ago, Zeonth said:
I cannot day for sure, as I do not know how your thought process works or what your typing speed is. A lot is possible in 2 minutes, the decision didn’t have to be well thought out if it was a spur of the moment reaction. Your objection is not something you can prove, and so I will consider it null and keep my situational scumread on you.
Besides, my scumread on you only has feasibility if bart flips town. You don’t think he will, do you? After all, you are one of the votes on him.
I'm not impulsive as a scumplayer. Not even remotely, just check one of my scumgames, all I do is wallpost. Maybe I can force myself into posting more loosely as I'm doing this game, but making a snap-decision like that is not something scum!me does, especially if I can just as easily vote Bart/just unvote and write an actual case on Evan later after thinking on it some more. Selfmeta is always iffy, but I think you can find this yourself if you read one of my scumgames.
I don't think he will flip town, I think there's a high chance he flips scum, that doesn't mean I refuse to think about the case where he flips town. And interacting with you this way helps me get a better read on you then I get by reading your readslists.
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Hm, you're right, I missed nadroj moving away from Bart, that does counter my point.
4 minutes ago, Zeonth said:Follow-up, the post you made after my vote and before your vote is important as it would have shown my vote on evan. This takes away from your theory that I sniped another vote onto evan and you would have been third, as you would know I was there and still have placed it.
This I would object against though, as the time between my two posts was 2 minutes. Me reading your post, seeing your vote on evan, deciding to change my plan of voting Bart to bussing, thinking of a reason to accompany my busvote and also writing the post is something I don't think I can pull off within that time frame. Not that it matters much as Bart was on 1, which I could've noticed.
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2 minutes ago, Fable said:
I forgot this game existed lol.
How incredibly rude.
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3 minutes ago, athena_57 said:
Additionally, if I was reading the gamestate right, Evan wasn't the most likely lynch that day before I went there, that was Bart. Note that my unvote post was sniped by your post where you moved to Evan, so FMPOV I was going to be the 3rd vote there. If I'm attempting to get Bart lynched, it would be more beneficial to go there, he had as much votes on him and seemed more likely to get lynched. Basically the whole game was scumreading him back then so I won't lose towncred from contributing to a mislych there either.
TL;DR Moving from a virtual vote on Bart to starting a pressure wagon on you, leaving that as soon as it gains traction and then bussing Evan as opposed to mislynching Bart makes no sense from the perspective of scum!me.
"My unvote post" - not referring to the post where I literally unvoted, but the post where I said I was going to unvote, which was the post before.
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Additionally, if I was reading the gamestate right, Evan wasn't the most likely lynch that day before I went there, that was Bart. Note that my unvote post was sniped by your post where you moved to Evan, so FMPOV I was going to be the 3rd vote there. If I'm attempting to get Bart lynched, it would be more beneficial to go there, he had as much votes on him and seemed more likely to get lynched. Basically the whole game was scumreading him back then so I won't lose towncred from contributing to a mislych there either.
TL;DR Moving from a virtual vote on Bart to starting a pressure wagon on you, leaving that as soon as it gains traction and then bussing Evan as opposed to mislynching Bart makes no sense from the perspective of scum!me.
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48 minutes ago, Zeonth said:
In order of most likely flip, assuming bart flips town tonight, my biggest scumpartner for Mack becomes Athena.
This has been bugging me, but last night you made the case that Evan flipping scum was good for me and bad for bart and set a good case for them as a team. However, this can also be seen as an easy misslynch on bart and the possibility you were bussing Evan last day still exists. You had started the lynches on me last day as a pressure lynch that quickly gained votes and didn’t see you leave the wagon until after the Evan train began to rival it. This could be seen as you feeling it was safer for you to get off me, as your case for staying on a pressure lynch that flips town would be worse for you than a bus.
If I'm going to leave the wagon on you as soon as it gains traction, why would scum!me start that wagon in the first place?
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@Zeonth I'm confused as to why Mackc get's moved further to town after a townflip from Bart. I get you've got this spicy thing wrt me, which is gas, but how does he look better then Fable? I personally think a townflip from Bart looks awful for Mackc, and maybe good for fable?
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@Zeonth I may have missed this, but if Bart or Mackc flips town, who could be scum to you?
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Whilst the logic in his posts today look written from a townperspective, I'm missing any sort of spice in Bart's posts today? Like, his scumteam is RAD/Junk on PoE which doesn't sound like he's actually solving, scumhunting, rereading or anything. That's what makes me think Bart is scum most, next to his interactions with Evan, as across this game, his pushes after the nadroj thing have all been very easy pushes over playstyle or inactivity (Fable, Zeo, RAD). That's what I was looking for in his posts today, but I'm seeing nothing of the sort, which is why my vote is most likely staying on him.
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5 minutes ago, Zeonth said:
athena, why would bart hammer himself?
To take away 4/5 hours of talking time, denying tonight's nightkill to give their closing thoughts. I think he's the de facto lynch today, I think he knows that and if he's scum he will look to self-hammer I think.
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I liked RAD's post by the way, good thought pattern on Zeo/Mackc, especially Mackc, I should check out that flip on Bart from him RAD points out.
The one thing making me paranoid is his townread on me for some reason since Evan and Bart (who I'm pretty sure is scum atm) both townread me from the start... But eh, paranoia aside, it looked good.
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14 hours ago, Bartozio said:
@athena_57 maybe I missed it, but can you give your opinions on Fable?
On 6/24/2018 at 11:32 PM, athena_57 said:Dunno tbh
Fable - I want to townread him. I've wanted to townread him all game and I don't even know why. Evan flipping scum should be a good look, Bart flipping scum should look good as well. And yet there's this paranoid voice in the back of my mind (I like to call it Refa) that makes me uncomfortable assigning him a townread.
This is what I said earlier, and still sort of where I am now. He's done nothing inherently scummy, but not much that I can call really town either. Interactions with Evan are good, but when I'm considering bussers he might be the most likely? I'd give him a small townlean, but am sort of paranoid of this slot as lynching you, Mackc and RAD in succession for the gamewin seems too easy somehow? Like, if the game were actually that solved I'd expect more pushback.
TL;DR on this hardcore waffling: Dunno tbh. Can very well be town, but not as towny as my 3 actual townreads.
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Other questions are good though
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7 minutes ago, Mackc2 said:
Also Zeo, no comment on gamestate, no vote for mafia? Who do you think is scumteam at this point?
Busy atm, so can't repond to RAD/Zeo yet, but nobody vote Bart right now, if we do he can self-hammer
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2 hours ago, Bartozio said:
Most people on the wagon were only there for pressure, which makes it a pretty tough wagon to actually push over Evan. It's also relevant to note Rad never posted after the wagon started, so he might have actually missed the whole thing.
Junk could have decided I was more likely to actually get lynched, since people didn't like my vote on Zeonth, and well.... you started the wagon.
I'm pretty convinced Xnad is town anyway, so I guess it's just another good point in favor of Fable and Mack?
Actually, not even that, since if Fable is scum, he was hard going for towncred by bussing Evan, so he could very well have hoped the Zeo wagon would go off without him.
And I'm not really sure how aware Mack was of what was happening in the thread at the time, considering he only made one post asking me to make sure I responded to stuff if I hadn't.
Soooo, it's not really relevant for me in the end.
That looks fair I think, thank you.
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I think you missed these questions (sorry if you're still working on the answer/haven't gotten to this yet)
21 hours ago, athena_57 said:I would like for you to find a second scumread to assemble a scumteam.
21 hours ago, athena_57 said:so either a scumpartner for RAD, or two people who make sense as buddies
So I'd like you to find a second scumread who fits as scumbuddy with RAD (or if you conclude there is no-one, a scumteam without him)
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Something I'd like to discuss is yesterday's Zeo wagon. I started it partly as pressure, partly as bait wagon and as a result had scumreads on Makaze and Bartozio who hopped on and never left.
@Bartozio Considering you think Zeo's town, what do you make of this? Why didn't scum hop on this relatively easy counterwagon to evan?
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^^^^
I don't mean right now by the way, just at some point
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6 minutes ago, Mackc2 said:
@Zeonth I read your ISO and I don't understand how Evan flipping scum makes you town read Fable, could you please explain it to me? Since Makaze is town it doesn't sound strange for Evan to pocket Makaze to hide their connection to fable. That said I don't think Fable is scum because Bartozio is still my main scumread and I don't see both scum bussing Fable.
##Vote: @Bartozio
I am going to bed, I plan to look through all the scum teams I see are possible and identify the most likely ones tomorrow. Unless I find something crazy the team will probably be bart and someone else so I am leaving this vote here in case I get lazy and just don't bother actually doing any of that.I swear Mackc if you don't provide us with a full scumteam I will hunt you until the ends of the earth, which should be somewhere in Australia. Huh, convenient.
(More seriously though, please tell us which scumteam you feel is most likely if Bart flips scum and which if Bart flips town)
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5 minutes ago, Mackc2 said:
I suppose they could just get the numbers from looking at how many players they have in their team. Yeah then that puts dents in my argument, I suppose mafia could have not known that it was in the rules and made a statement like that to act like they didn't know, and using that logic they would then be assuming that it would give them towncred. Its possible, I wouldn't consider it a serious argument though.
2 minutes ago, Mackc2 said:by itself anyway
Oh, I'm not suggesting you or Fable should be lynched over this, it can come from town as well, for me it's a small thing I'm keeping in mind with respect to the two of you.
Training Mafia 3.0: Advanced - GAMEOVER
in Mafia
Posted
Where I stand readswise as of now:
Nadroj, Junk and Zeo are all towny enough that I'm not going to worry about any of them being scum unless I find something really bad during my reread tonight.
Zeo only has a remote chance of being scum in a Fable/Zeo world I feel, and if that's the case we've already lost, so why bother thinking about it.
Junk's thinking has apparently had more depth than usual, I don't know if this is the case, but I do know I like how they look. Interactions look good, especially if Bart flips scum.
If Bart is scum, Nadroj slot is pretty much locktown, because of the way Bart dropped the case on Nadroj, but Nadroj kept going on about how scummy Bart's "leaps of logic" were, I'd expect more symmetry in their approach if they were bussing. If Bart is town, this doesn't hold, but even then we never lynch him over the other three.
I'm pretty sure Bart will flip scum. When he does this leaves Mackc, Fable and RAD.
As of right now I'm leaning Mackc > Fable > RAD
Even when treating Mackc's cautiousness as null (Mackc, since you asked, what I personally mean by this is your earlygame posts like "I don't have anything strong enough to claim anyone is town or scum" and similar posts where you seem hesitant to take a firm stance), his Evan defenses at EoD2 look bad and his in-thread PR-hunting is bad, though perhaps even too scummy to actually be scum. What's keeping me back the most from scumreading him is that when pressed, he seems genuinly surprised about what he's being pressed over (see our interaction over numbers+vighunting)
Fable's interactions with Bart I will try to look at today, but it will probably become tonight. If there was a busser on the Evan wagon, it's him, whether there was one is something I'll try to look into.
RAD is below the other two because if Bart was going to bus RAD today, I'd expect him to bring a real case and not just place a PoE vote. (Or in case I'm being completely honest, my inner voice which told me to murder babies and also told me nadroj is going to steal my grapefruit expects this and I agree)
In case Bart flips town I sincerely doubt I will die tonight so I will be able to tell you who I think is scum on day 4.
In any case, if this happens we will be in 4/2 *YLO tomorrow. I feel Mackc gets lynched there 95% of the time. Beyond that, it's probably massclaim time and we decide who's a partner for Mackc from there, probably RAD>Fable.