Extrasolar

I disagree. From the people I know that have played it (admittedly not many), they often criticize the prevalence of the avatar Kris, who tends to overshadow the actual plot of New Mystery. They do hail it as better than Shadow Dragon in a lot of cases, a lot of reasoning being the inclusion of the character conversations and more development. I'm not saying that Fire Emblem was always 100% realistic. FE as a whole depends on the suspension of disbelief as far as army size and characters go; we depend on teenagers to save the world and take down people with decades more combat experience than them, or monstrous dragons that should far, far outstrip them in power. Nor is it 100% accurate to the medieval world - I mean, we've got mages and dragons. But that didn't stop it from feeling far more realistic than, say, Fates and Awakening. As a whole, the older FE titles read like a serious fantasy story and world with a few comedic characters and moments, whereas Awakening and Fates (especially Awakening) took a more comedic route. A lot of the time in Awakening, if I didn't know any better, I could have sworn I was playing a parody of a fantasy rather than a straight fantasy. I believe the anime influence on the games increased a lot, as well, which could alienate people. Of course, anime has always been an influence on FE, but now more than ever, the character tropes, jokes, and references are heavily, heavily anime, which can get tiresome. Nothing against anime, but it can be a bit distracting in what was once a more straight-played fantasy story. I always saw the dialogue in FE as being "dry" (for lack of a better term, I guess I should say "serious") because of a deliberate stylization choice; it's almost the same effect of Tolkien's language in his books. Like Tolkien, it can be awkward or strange to read, but I think it's meant to be a callback to an older time, to immerse you in the time period, where people spoke differently. If anything, the juxtaposition of the more serious language with some of the more comedic characters (Kieran, for example, and Boyd to a lesser extent) was even funnier. Awakening and Fates relaxed the dialogue which made it flow better for a modern person, but at the same time, often broke the suspension of disbelief. I love Izana to death and find him one of Fates' funniest characters, but I can't deny reading his lines was jarring and immediately took me out of the world in what was supposed to be a past-era fantasy story. I know Izana is an extreme example, and his dialogue was exaggerated in the localization on purpose, but others characters in Fates and Awakening do the same, albeit to a lesser extent. I'm not denying that other FE characters sometimes have their quirk, or one trait that their character disproportionately focuses on (Binding Blade falls victim to this a lot; I think the flatter characterization as a whole is a rollover from losing a lot of space from the transition from Super Famicom to Gameboy Advance), but those quirks, for the most part, made sense. A candy-obsessed thief is...out there, to the point that it sounds like a parody/comedic character (not saying that Gaius has no depth or other traits, he definitely does, whereas Asugi is little more than an obsessive exaggeration on that candy trait, but I digress). How about an armor knight that pretty much "disappears" because he's so nondescript and overlooked? When Genealogy did the same joke, Arden wasn't literally vanishing from people's view like Kellam does. A swordsman/woman obsessed with training and fighting opponents? They've done it with Fir, and later with Mia. Flat, but it at least makes sense and doesn't break immersion. Frederick is a strict, uptight knight with a strong loyalty to the family he serves...and then he starts talking about putting up naked posters of Chrom. Um. What? (Not bashing Frederick, I like the character, but stuff like that is weird and immersion-breaking.) Heat of battle supports are a bit strange, indeed. There's absolutely nothing wrong with relaxed supports, as I'm not of the opinion that supports have to delve into tragic pasts or whatnot all the time...but some relevance would be nice. I always point to Shinon and Janaff's supports; they're rather lighthearted, but at the same time, explores and give depths to both the seemingly childish Janaff (he's older and wiser than people give him credit for), and the racist Shinon (he's in awe over Janaff's age, and even stops himself from saying the racial slur when talking to him). That comment about Lyn...yeah, a lot of problems with that one. Lyn winning had little to do with the newer games, if anything at all. That's just...ignorant. I definitely agree that the newer games definitely get the most flack in comparison (Shadow Dragon being a close second, and Binding Blade third, and yeah, I remember when bashing everything about the latter two was vogue), with people downplaying their good decisions or mechanics (Pair Up is a great one, and I'm glad Fates rebalanced it), and but I think that's a given in any fandom. You'll always have that installment or installments that were less well received that people focus on disliking more. Fates and Awakening get it more because of their being steeped in current culture and tropes, as opposed to BB and SD, which got flack for being outdated and bare-bones in comparison. Not speaking of FE1/3 and their remakes, as speaking from a purely western perspective, very few people have played Shadow Dragon and New Mystery; in this context, I mean from FE4 to FE10. I agree with you in that FE has never had amazingly well-written or put-together stories, though again, I think it's a matter of tone. People feel alienated by Awakening and to a lesser extent Fates' sillier tones; now, the older FE games definitely had their comedic characters and moments, but they were relegated to isolated moments of comedic relief, whereas Awakening was more comedic than serious. Likewise, Awakening and Fates most definitely have their serious moments, but as a whole are sillier. I believe that's why the plots feel flatter or less believable; Fates and Awakening do have a problem with sudden mood whiplash, which made the games' stories less impactful or less believable. I'd say that as far as pure plot development and writing goes, Path of Radiance and the Jugdral games shine the most (though a lot of Jugdral is in supplementary material). FE10 definitely had questionable choices...and yes, those supports were awful. You're not coming off as rude or prickly; I'm really enjoying this debate, actually.

Hmm, so are you saying all of the level up quotes should be the equivalent of a "great level up" (5+ stats increase) quote? Not sure I'm understand what you're asking. Question about affinities. You said you're giving every unit based on a birthday you're going to assign them, so are you just going to ignore the affinities that the units have in the canon games? How about light affinity giving an evasion boost? I would say a luck boost, but looks like the game doesn't have a luck stat. I think it makes sense, since divine characters generally have high luck to represent the favor they have by the gods, or something similar. Still thinking of something for dark affinity. And I assume wind magic will be extra effective against flying units, and thunder magic effective against dragons and dragon riders too?

Ain is a Fire Dragon from Binding Blade, Khozen is a dragon servant of Medeus in New Mystery, and Mannu is the dragon ruler of Pyrathi in Shadow Dragon. I'd say the main running is between Dheginsea, Grima, Loptyr and Anankos. The rest aren't anywhere close, imo, as none of them have power or actions comparable to those four. Dheginsea was one of the Three Heroes of Ashera way back in the past, not to mention being blessed by a god, which in Tellius pretty much cranks all of your attributes up. He ruled an entire kingdom of dragon laguz (which lore-wise, are extremely powerful though in gameplay they're pretty mediocre) by virtue of being by far the most powerful Black Dragon, and took down the gigantic army of a god with only two other allies by his side. It took an entire army composed of people from every corner of Tellius, including the other laguz royals, themselves immensely powerful, to take him down. Grima and Loptyr were also very powerful and their foul influence was felt on their respective continents. Grima almost destroyed the entirety of Ylisse and would have had it not been for the First Exalt and Naga herself, while Loptyr pretty much successfully ruled all of Jugdral for centuries before the Twelve Crusaders (with a weapon of Naga's) came in to stop him. Neither of the two was killed for sure, though; Grima fell into a sleep and Loptyr's essence was contained within the tome of the same name. Both had cults that were slavishly loyal to them and worked to ensure their resurrection. Anankos seems to hold godly power, and he pretty much decimated all of Valla and its population. Not to mention, he showed he had the ability to bring in people from alternate dimensions to serve under him, so there's that too. I can't choose between them...

Yeah, that's really weird. Mine is working fine... I can't imagine why your game is crashing so much. I think the update itself was fine...

Just looked it up. As long as you have it linked to your Nintendo account, your data will be restored after you reinstall the game. EDIT: Directions say to be sure to link your account when it first asks you when you reinstall; if you try to do it later, it'll overwrite your previous data.

That's happened to me with my 4* Gaius, weird enough. I thought he'd be as useless as Matthew, but I tossed him onto a team and discovered that he's actually got a decent strength growth, and his special weapon raises his defense and resistance when it's used. He's surprisingly effective, funny enough. EDIT: @immatx The game has crashed on me maybe twice when I went back to it after having my phone idle for a while, but other than that, it's been fine for me.

Ohh. That's not really a rewrite, but more like a perspective flip. I thought you meant changing the events and main plot or something. EDIT: @Sire I really like the idea of a full game following the kids from Awakening in their Bad Future. I think it would better as a limited resource, almost pseudo-survival style like Thracia 776 was, with really tough enemies, to drive home the fact that you're struggling for survival in this really hostile world. Also definitely for fleshing out real Garon more (I wish slime monster Garon hadn't existed at all, but we can't always get what we want...). Getting an updated rewrite of Fates with all the shenanigans/bad writing ironed out would be nice too, and I've got quite a few ideas on how I'd fix the Conquest path in particular and the Revelation path to a lesser extent. But that could be a whole 'nother thread in and of itself. This is kind of my wider fear for the future FE series as a whole... I agree with all of this, pretty much.

You're doing an FE9 rewrite? But FE9 is so good in its current state... Now, RD, that could do with a few rewrites, to say the least. I'm curious, though. Do you have a link to it?

There's an opinion, and then there's what the growths and stats themselves say, especially when most people arrive at an overall consensus. I mean, Matthis is widely agreed upon to be the worst unit in Shadow Dragon, because he has absolutely horrible bases and growths. Does that mean he still can't be used, or can't be useful in some situations, especially if one invests items within him? Sure, but training him up is much more of a hassle, and you'll get less good results, than training up Ogma, for example. Thus, Matthis is objectively a bad unit, while Ogma is an objectively good unit, because when trained, he most often turns out stronger than average, without you having to sink items or anything in him. There are opinions - i.e., "[x] has turned out well for me," or "I use [x] in this situation with this setup," and there's nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't change the fact that [x] is objectively a weak unit, especially when other units turn out much better for much less effort. I mean, most people agree that Haar and Shinon are among the best units in Radiant Dawn, and that's because they're both extremely strong from the start, while Leonardo is looked upon as the worst sniper in the game. Does that mean Leonardo is useless, or can't be usable without some effort? No. But again, he's considered a bad unit because you have to put in a ton of effort to make him work, just like you have to do with Odin, whereas Shinon and Haar are pretty much free tickets to success. Those two are good units. When most people agree that Odin is a mediocre unit, it most likely means, well, that he's a mediocre unit. As for Keaton...uh, "aside from stats..." You do realize that is mostly what a unit is judged on right? Keaton's stats are great - high strength, high defense, high hp, decent enough speed... He wrecks face in gameplay without having to eat up items to be usable. Again, the question isn't "which units give good supports/get good kids/give good skillsets," or "which units can be good with setup." Because that's what you're treating it as. Again, not saying Odin is useless, but he's definitely not a great unit.

I like Subaki in theory, because the idea of a guy under so much pressure to be perfect that he's cracking at the edges is fascinating to me, and we get word of his parents basically screwed him mentally by forcing the idea of perfection on him. ...But we don't see enough of those cracks underneath. Just when it seems like they're going that route, he gets back up and wins effortlessly anyway. I mean, he's generally nice and seems to like helping people, but his arrogance can be frustrating and eye-rolling sometimes. But yeah, he's a tank rather than a damage dealer I agree with you on the Ike front. RD Ike seems like they went "Let's strip everything even remotely original or interesting about Ike in the previous game away, add about 100 pounds of muscle, and call it a day." Imo it's worse because a lot of the other units, namely the Dawn Brigade, were underdeveloped because the Greil Mercenaries had to come back into the spotlight. Love those guys, but that hurt RD overall.

I just can't get behind Kaze in Conquest. He just gets far too strength-screwed, to the point that he'll be lucky to deal 2 damage to something, and the few points of debuff falls off too much in lategame for me. Funny enough, I find him much more useful on Birthright. EDIT: @joshcja Misinformed? Wrong? Uh...You realize how arrogant you sound right now, right? Just so you know, if most people are pointing something out (in this case, Odin being mediocre), the majority is probably the more accurate one, whereas you're trying to argue a niche opinion. Just saying. And Keaton is an objectively useful/good unit. You don't need to invest items or reclass him for him to be useful, unlike Odin. And I've given Odin a Nosferatu tome and used him. Still pretty mediocre, but mediocre with a heal, I guess.

Elincia's a scared young woman whose world was turned upside down at a whim. Calling her "just cargo" and that Ike was her "babysitter" is a bit extreme, in my opinion, as her lack of direct involvement is justified by her position. She led an extremely sheltered life, and she doesn't have any experience at all in the combat world (unlike Ike, who despite being new to being a mercenary, is at least prepared for combat), and loses contact with her retainers, the people that were like siblings to her. She's essentially helpeless and being hunted ruthlessly, until she comes across the mercenaries. And to her credit, she tries to be useful, even if she's inexperienced and scared. That's why Elincia in RD is so cool, because it's the culmination of her character development from scared young woman to badass queen. A few people that didn't like him? Try literally every person he came across as a child (all laguz) scorning him for something that was not his fault. He's cold because he just doesn't know affection or tenderness, or how to express it, even if he wants to. Even the sage that raised him was cold and strict to him; he never had a parental figure or any friends to be close to until he met Ike. That's why he pushes people away. He's loathe to open up because of his status as a Branded meaning people judge him as inferior without even knowing him. Giving Elincia up to Daein isn't a horrible decision, considering as far as they know, Elincia is lying in the first place about being a princess, considering no one even know of any daughter of the king at all. Not to mention, the Greil Mercenaries were just that - Mercenaries. They had no loyalty or ties to Crimea, and thus Daein would have no reason to attack them should they give her up. If anything, they'd probably get paid for her. And getting embroiled in the situation, princess or not, would cause the mercenaries stress in the long run. The only reason they're attacked by Daein in the first place is because they decide to shelter Elincia. Not saying that Soren's decision was the right one, in fact it's objectively douchebaggy, since Elincia would be killed, if not worse, should she be handed over, but it's not like it makes no sense whatsoever. Soren is pragmatic above all. I apologize, but I had to get this off my chest.

So it is convoluted, then, to the point that you don't want to take the time to explain it. So what you're saying is you have to go out of your way to make him any good/usable. That's not the mark of a good unit, I'm afraid. You can make literally every unit in this game "good" or usable with item investment, messing with reclassing, and whatnot, but there are plenty of units that you don't have to mess with any of that stuff for them to be useful. Those are the good units, and Odin isn't one of them. And most of the people posting in the thread have said the same about Odin, that he tends to be mediocre. This is a topic asking for general information on good/bad units, rather than "what units can be good/usable with investment of items, messing with reclassing, and such."

So I noticed that you never explained these cheese strats. How exactly do you accomplish this? Or is too convoluted to explain easily? Why does Odin turn out mediocre for everyone else?

Okay? Not sure how accurate that statement is, but this thread is asking for general unit advice on Conquest. And without your self-admitted cheesy strats, Odin doesn't do much. Thus, he's not a good unit.

Highly disagree. Odin's growths are strange, and most of the time he tends to turn out mediocre. Leo, Izana, and even his own daughter are far better in the mage department than him. Even if reclassed to a physical unit, he never really...does much. Not worth it to train, imo. Granted, he's one of only two mages you get in the early game...so it's not like he has all that much competition. But if you train him, prepare for disappointment. At least he can be paired off to get Ophelia.

In terms of consistent writing? Ryoma all the way. In terms of actual characterization? Xander, 100%. I find Xander to be a far more interesting character than Ryoma, simply because instead of just being naturally talented at everything and virtually untouchable like Ryoma is and was, he had to struggle to improve himself. He's got a warm, friendly and open nature, despite being outwardly strict and aloof, and cares deeply for all of his siblings, especially after the chaos of his half-sibling relations during the time he was growing up. He's the best bro, in other words. Aaaand then Conquest shoots all of his good characterization to hell, and that's not even starting on his supports with Peri. I'm voting for Ryoma out of principle, since while he was somewhat bland and safe, he at least never became insulting at any point during the game. And I prefer Ryoma-style swordmaster, dodge and kill, rather than Xander straight-up facetank and die in two hits to mages. Not that they're both not beastly units, or anything.

I'm in the camp that loves Azama. He's a dick, but he's both hilarious and entertaining. Damn, you beat me to the punch on saying Ilyana. She's a complete waste of code and space in a subseries with some of the best-written and most developed characters in the series, if I'm being direct about it. Also dislike Peri immensely. She's a failed attempt at capturing the magic of Henry, and comes off like a poorly written Deviantart-esque OC rather than an actual character in the series. She reads like every 13-year-old's attempt at making a "3edgy4me so dangerous but so cute and bubbly and happy" fan character. Plus, she manages to derail Xander's character spectacularly (though the Conquest path itself also manages to do that) during their supports. Just...no. I'm gonna go with Camilla for my choice, though. Transparent fanservice character is transparent fanservice. Yeah, sure, she's got "depth" or whatever, but nobody is looking that far with what's right in your face. It was at the point that I cringed hard during the camera's orbit of her on the Birthright path, as well as every time she said or did anything in the Conquest path. I disliked Tharja for this reason back during Awakening's heyday, but I had no idea they'd somehow manage to do it even worse, and make it more insulting to people who like good character design. And at least with Peri, she's a minor enough character that you can ignore her for the most part after her introduction scene. We're not so lucky with Camilla. Aw, but didn't you get the part about Soren being a "big softie" who tries to hide it with his coldness? That was hilarious, especially his flat reaction to it. His relationship with Ike is cute, at least, right? I personally adore Soren, but I can see how he can come off as an edgelord to some. I myself sometimes mock his edgelord tendencies. Lol.

This is pretty much my feelings on the matter. Give me a pregenerated cast with diverse personalities, please. This is also why I've never been a fan of reclassing, as I feel part of a unit's personality is contained within their starting class.

Odin's outfit is ridiculous, haha. But it's a take-off from the weird dark mage outfits of Awakening. Seriously, I don't know who thought those designs made any sense whatsoever... Mist wears shorts underneath her skirt at the very least, as revealed in concept art for her. Ilyana doesn't, though... And Calill's dress is sufficiently long enough to not qualify as fanservice imo; it's less revealing than Lyn's, at any rate. Mia's pretty much fully clothed otherwise, unless you count no sleeves, which I don't. Nephenee's no leg armor is a little inexplicable, but as the rest of her is covered up, I don't think it's all that bad. I wish more female characters were designed like Titania and Tanith. I will cry forever over the fact that we probably won't be getting a return to the Tellius designs anytime soon.

Oh, I see what you mean. I agree with your points for the most part, that other FE titles definitely do have flatly-written gimmick characters like Ilyana, but I think it's the fact that the tone of FE in the earlier games was a whole lot more serious/less referential than in Awakening or Fates, so that's where a lot of the disconnect comes in. Characters in the older games are as a whole more understated; the exceptions you got stood out simply because they were the exception to the rule, like Kieran talking about fighting giant scorpions and getting an axe blade stuck in his head. He was funny because the rest of the world was so down-to-earth and serious. But characters in the newer games are more exaggerated, or built around their quirk, more than characters from the other games, and the world itself is a lot less serious. Does this make them funnier? In a lot of cases, yes. But it also can break immersion in what is meant to be a relatively serious fantasy story, or be a little too silly for someone else's tastes, to the point that the characters begin reading like a parody character instead of a serious one. (Awakening was more guilty of this than Fates, in my honest opinion.) While the majority of what makes Fire Emblem Fire Emblem still remains, imo (strategy RPG, fantasy world, diverse cast of characters, rock-paper-scissors gameplay, support conversations with character development and bonuses, etc.), I do think, in some respects, people have a point when it comes to Fire Emblem losing something of its character. While I personally am not against the mechanics, casual mode (and especially Phoenix mode) did remove the signature permadeath mechanic, as well as the infinite durability weapons (I know this originated in Gaiden, but as it was dropped from most of the rest of the series, I believe it became ingrained in FE's character), which got rid of a lot of the realism and challenge within the series. Now, I'm definitely not on the "FIRE EMBLEM IS RUINED FOREVER!" bandwagon, but there are some directions the series is taking that I'm not too keen on. (The increased fanservice being one of them.) But yeah, shipping wars were always a thing. The Ninian/Eliwood shippers versus pretty much every other pairing for Eliwood is that one I remember the clearest from way back when. Also, yeah, division within the FE fandom is definitely nothing new. And the older titles definitely had their flaws, which people do tend to overlook when criticizing the newer games. Partially out of nostalgia, I believe.

Cordelia? My bad, I thought I typed "Cherche." Gonna go back and edit that real quick. I guess I was going to say that her Brave Lance took out mages easily, but got confused or something.

Oh dang. I feel lucky now...considering that my 5* Seliph and Julia were literally my first and second pulls with my free 15 orbs... Lol. But yeah, armored knights are a pain for me at times, considering I only really have two good mages (5* Julia and 4* Tharja), one decently strong mage (4* M!Robin), and a bunch of really weak mages like worthless 3* Raigh, 3* Henry and 3* Cecilia. I'm trying to train up my physical units, only for them to have no chance whenever a mage is in the rotation because of their low resistance a lot of the time. At least I pulled a 4* Cherche with a Hammer and 4* Est with a Heavy Spear early... But on the flipside, I have so many pegasus knights that mages that I don't have much a problem with mages. Seriously, this game is fascinated with giving me Pegasus knights. And I'm consistently disappointed with 4* Merric. Get some attack growth, you jerk...

Izana's pretty great. He's got high magic, decent speed, and decent enough defenses that he don't have to worry about him dying in a single hit to a physical unit if he's attacked. He's got a decently high skill growth, meaning he'll be critically-hitting fairly often. His growths in general are fairly high, and he averages roughly 4 to 5 stats increasing per level. He also offers utility as an Onmyoji with his ability to use staves. He's much better than awful Nyx and mediocre Odin. Much, much better, though of course he lacks Leo's mobility.

Right... I miss the days of women being clothed just as much as the men. At least we'll have Echoes to give us some more of that back. Bring it back for good, FE Switch! RE The Sothe profile: So apparently Sothe has a talent for woodcarving? Huh...that's kind of interesting. Wish we'd seen it more in-game, with him carving a bow for Leonardo or something.