vikingsfan92
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Posts posted by vikingsfan92
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1 hour ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:
That's on ONE route and not the other 3. Stop treating CF as though it's the only option when 3 other, equally viable options exist. I've said it before, I will say it again: In a game like 3H you HAVE TO look at the characters through the lens of all of the routes, not just your preferred one. This isn't a if you want to because anything else is a disservice to the majority of other paths and acts as though they don't exist in favor of your baby route.
Its not that other routes don't exist its that the CF and the other routes are different in when they can show things and when they can't. People are taking things before CF is even allowed to show things to mean everything when that is not exactly fair to CF. Which is why people are bringing up CF because it matters too and it is a reason pre-timeskip stuff is not 100% either way. Imagine if their was a AM route split at the end of part . That route would be in exact same spot as CF in making things include both pre and post timeskip stuff have to be examined in order to discuss it. They can't show stuff that leans to hard into either AM route if had a split when they don't know which one you picked yet.
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28 minutes ago, Timlugia said:
You claimed that quote isn't a neutral stance, but only it is.
It's Constance before Byleth made any choice or influencing her.
All your other examples came from War phase, after they made their minds to follow Byleth, (no matter how unbelievable the reasons were) but this Constance one is from the part one.
I wasn't ignoring CF quotes, like most characters, in War phase she could be argued going both way. But in Part One she clearly states she would stop Edelgard.
Here is the problem with assuming part 1 is neutral it isn't. Because you are not in CF yet the game can't go to hard on showing you pro-CF stuff until you are actually in the route in case you don't go that route. Imagine if there was a blue lions route and Verdent wind route splits in the story as well it would be pretty jarring to see dialogue implying you are going a different route than the one you are going no? Therefore you can't actually get a fair representation of CF before timeskip and using pre-timeskip dialouge that needs to let you go both ways is a bias in itself.
And that aside you are totally glossing over things I and others have brought up like the fact pretty much all unique battle quotes are between close characters (Ignatz vs Raphiel for instance) and she has shown no real attempts to approach the other lords. And her stubborn nature to get what she wants and not relent until she gets it.
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17 minutes ago, Timlugia said:
It's actually not.
It's from Chapter 11 of White Cloud, so Constance is against Edelgard's plan from the beginning without Byleth making choices first.
So yes, it is arguably her neutral position.
She's also the only Black Eagle with special battle dialogue against Edelgard here
https://fireemblem.fandom.com/wiki/Throne_of_Knowledge/Script#.28With_Constance.29
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If we were talking about post skip, she actually states she will build a new House Nuvelle by fighting Edelgard
https://fireemblem.fandom.com/wiki/To_War_(Silver_Snow)/Script#Edelgard.C2.A0
You realize CF exists right? Your quoting act like cf doesn't exist which I don't like at all. And the fact she has a quote with Edelgard is kind saying she has more of a bond with Edelgard and thus less likely to betray her then anything. Look at other unique dialogue options all of them are really close characters Shmamir vs Catherine, Annette vs Mercedes, Felix vs Ingrid, Sylvain vs Felix, Raphel vs Ignatz, ect. so I don't think the unique dialogue option helps the argument they would go separate ways much in fact I think it does the opposite.
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26 minutes ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:
This is pretty disingenuous. In order to fully understand a character in a game like 3H you have to look at them on all the routes, not just your favorite/preferred route. Seeing how they react under varying circumstances is the only way to determine what someone might do in a neutral case, so it's entirely fine to use dialogue from different routes. It's still part of Constance's character, it being somewhere other than CF doesn't disqualify it as genuine or canon.
My point is that that is by far more weaker part of the argument and that cf does matter too and I feel he was ignoring it compeltly. Constence has been shown to never give up on what she wants. She wants Edelgards help and has even in other routes been implied she has been asking non-stop. Even far more trivial stuff she has been shown to the type who keeps pestering people until she gets what she wants. So I am saying given other stuff the non-cf is more ooc for what she has been shown in the cindered shadows dlc which is the most neutral enviorment.
Since it goes against her whole charcter of not giving up until she gets people to give her what she wants.
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38 minutes ago, Timlugia said:
Constance actually says she would stop Edelgard without hesitation had she knew about the plan in Chapter 11.
It's actually really strange she wouldn't join one of the anti empire faction if you choose Crimson Flower.
You are using Dialogue made for another route and expecting it to apply to be neutral or apply to CF. I don't think the non-cf side is the one she would choose without Byleth because of how much effort she puts into trying to get Edelgard's aide. She implies that she has asked many many times to get her thoughts and help get her aide for restoring her house. In the dlc she goes to Edelgard over the other lords for the restoration of her house. No way she goes to those lengths with pestering and just gives up on her. They aren't making a paid dlc charcter leave your party on certain routes that would be super super silly of them to do so they are going to make good dialouge for all routes.
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I will start with the Ashen wolves: Hapi is inarguably Black Eagles as she hates the church with a passion. Balthus in the camp kind on Crimison flower talks about how his mother is a reason to fight for the Empire but also knows Hilda/Holst so its down to those two factions for him. Yuri is the type who can join and leave any faction at any moment so yeah not going to give him a house. Constance has the most connection with the empire of all the Ashen Wolves and probably has the closest connection to Edelgard of all of the wolves.
For the golden deer: Lysthiea and Lorenz are very pro Edelgard and the empire. But a sleeper pick the empire for me is Marianne because Edelgard kind of represents the type of person she wishes she could be strong and able to not worry about how others think of her.
As for the blue lions- I think it might actually be the least loyal house. Annette and Felix both have cut betrayal content in the form of unused voicelines in the files. Felix is also the one to not really want to go with the kingdom because of his father and Dimitri. He doesn't strike me as he is happy with any option but the kingdom I think he doesn't like the most because of his father and Dimtri. Ashe and Sylvain both have reasons to hate the system alot. Mercedes has Jeritza. Really only Dedue is ironclad loyal to Dimtri as students go. Ingrid I don't think really is too attached to any route so long as she can fulfill her knight dream.
As for black Eagels: only really Ferdinad and Bernedetta stand out to me as potential leavers. With the right person approaching him after his fathers dismissal I can see him being sorely tempted. Bernedetta would probably be the most likely to peace out of the war entirely and go somewhere where she can just stay inside. Lindhardt is probably third most likely but honestly is probably just too lazy to do so.
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39 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:
On the one hand I kind of agree with you, CF would probably generate quite a lot of hype as a DLC route.
On the other hand, my feeling is that if CF had been absent from day 1, this game does not get anywhere near the positive reception it currently has.
-Edelgard as a lord now feels like a bait and switch, which would generate bad feelings. We'd get an extra large dose of those bad feelings because she is the only female lord, so anyone who chose her for that reason now gets to gnash their teeth as somehow a male character ends up in the closest thing Silver Snow has to a spotlight.
-The game, billed as having three routes, is now revealed for those three routes differing by at most two maps each.
-For anyone who finds themselves siding ideologically more with Edelgard than Rhea (and believe me, there are a lot of us), being forced down Silver Snow would feel awful.
-Silver Snow already has a very poor reception, but this doesn't bring the game down because the people who would dislike it most usually don't do it as a first playthrough. If many of us did, though... yeah, I don't think it'd be pretty.
Not to mention that:
-Hubert and Edelgard get benched eternally until the dlc drops and having a main lord being benched feels horrible. Even more so when its one of the first character they showed to the public. And if you are benching the two unique characters that have zero playtime in other routes what is the point of a BE route at all? AM and VW get all the SS characters so its not like you get new characters.
- Continuing off the last point any advice or strategy guide for the game will be filled with suggestions not to use Edelgard and Hubert with no way around it. And if you use Edelgard because you like her alot or she is just putting in work for you since she has good stats your time spent goes into a void with no ways around it. This is significantly different from a guide telling you a unit is bad because at least units the guide maker says doesn't preform that well can use stat boosters and change of tactics to get around have a way to be useful even if it requires work.
- I also feel the bait feeling and the other irl problems can't be understated for how much problems they would cause. They are big deals that can kill enjoyment of the game on launch for people (like me) and how the game launches is a big deal.
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18 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:
I did in the three normal routes but not in Crimson Flower due to absolutely nothing having happened while Byleth was asleep. In the other routes Edelgard uses those five years to completely dismantle the Kingdom and turning Dimitri in a crazy hobo. In Crimson flower everyone just sat on their hands for five whole years.
I think people forget that invading the kingdom is significantly harder during the time skip on Crimsion flower. Crimison flower timeskip period still has an active Rhea and the knights of serios in the kingdom. Unlike other routes where Rhea goes MIA and the knights of Serios go in a bunch of different directions trying to find her they can stay united and ally more with the kingdom. Its also why Cornellia can't really do as much in Crimson Flower until her chapter in Crimson Flower because she has to worry about Rhea's forces who have made the kingdom her new base. Where as in other routes she is much more of a problem because she has less to keep her in check.
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Honestly I think this is the best Training, Iron and steel weapons have been. Mainly because on higher difficulties the enemies are really fast and higher than steel weapons tend to get you doubled. That and they tend to have more uses so it means you can use more combat arts.
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20 hours ago, Dayni said:
So, I didn't clear Infernal for this first time around. yay.
I got as far as Lunatic with Panny, Est, Peony and Mininerva.
This map drove me up the wall, the closest I got used Sothis, L!ELiwood, Brunnya and Osian but I couldn't pull it off.
It took me a while to figure out a solution for me too. I just took what was working for me on my previous runs and found a new way to do it until I slowly improved it until it works. Like one run I found sothis completely dominates the right hand side of the map with one unit to avoid. Another with a more flyer focused team I found Brave Camlia does better at dealing with the enemies on the map over Brave Veronica (who I was running on more cav and mixed teams) just in general who I thought would be more useful for the stat boosts. My point here is don't be afraid to mix and match things that work well from your previous attempts even if you don't think it works together its how I got something to work for me.
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1 hour ago, Gregster101 said:
Trust me, anyone would be a better GHB than Hans. I wouldn't mind either Shura or Fuga as a GHB, Shura because he is one of my favorite Fates characters and he is fought as a boss in both BR and CQ (and a recruitable enemy in Rev), and Fuga because he's the only playable character besides Flora who's fought as a boss in all three routes (plus it'd be really funny to see the salty reaction of my friend who absolutely hates Fuga with a passion :P)
Hans is probably destined to be a f2p unit as I don't think he is going to get any action on summon banners. And I can't see him being a TT unit so they kind of are limited on where he can appear in. I don't think there is much current options for his debut but ghb honestly.
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1 hour ago, haarhaarhaar said:
Still, if IS were to make a route with a main lord and then pay-lock it (as opposed to free DLC) it would be its own outrage, except for the people who were always going to buy the pass I guess.
I was very much making my point on the assumption that it would be a free dlc as I think any other option is a pr disaster. I also don't think the cover tactic for plot reasons really is a valid excuse either. The game needs to stand on it own and every route offers more than SS does. Also it kind of opens up logistical problems like why even bother have the main lord playable in the first place. People go out of there way to bench Orson when you can play as him in FE8 because you gain nothing other than a slight time savings for using him. And having any of the most marketed before release character become a bench warmer for the same reason as Orson (not being permanent units) after the first run is not a good look not even if it is a temporary thing imo.
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On 5/10/2020 at 5:26 PM, haarhaarhaar said:
I originally figured that if the choice were between the game as-is and DLC-locking VW to improve the other routes, then I'd go with the latter. But now I wonder if the route that should have been DLC-locked (if a route had to be delayed to improve quality) was CF. If CF had been released in a slightly more complete form, with Jeritza fully integrated into the game, and a couple of TWSITD chapters after Rhea, then that would be amazing value - a bit longer than CS, while being a main story route with a new perspective. It would have been an extremely ballsy switch to pull given the insane hype for Edelgard, but having your lord unavoidably become your enemy in the Black Eagles route (before DLC) is the kind of formula-breaking twist that would have made SS genuinely emotionally heavy. Delaying CF would have also made the dichotomy of Edelgard/Rhea (and the Edelgard/Dimitri conflict) much more powerful, as well as preventing many players from playing CF first (which is a bit of a head-scratcher plot wise on your first playthrough).
SS has plenty of other weaknesses anyway, and my criticism about VW needing to have been significantly different from SS still stands, but if a route needed to be delayed as DLC to make the others better, CF seems like a better choice than the rest.
Gods no. Yes I think its clear that cf needed more time but SS is so flawed as a concept that its clearly the route that needs to go. I have made some of my thoughts known already in this thread but I think this post also does a good job of stating the problems of SS for me. I agree with this post alot
10 hours ago, mrwanton said:The way things turned out was underwhelming, as well as cut Claude at the knees as a character, considering the heart of his issues can't be given as much detail considering the setting as they should be but it's still more interesting to me than another route where you're against Edelgard when Dimitri's route is basically already the epitome of that viewpoint.\
Byleth just can't carry a story by themselves even with the tighter narrative.
And I also think it would lead to more problems then solutions in regards to irl situations for IS. Locking any of the three main lords behind dlc is not just disaster waiting to happen but also not going to sell very well with your audience on being patient so still probably leads to rushing. Look at how the game was presented before the release and how much marketing went into all three of the main lords. Its beyond a waste of potential to not fully utilize all three of them from day 1 of the game. No matter which lord is locked behind the dlc there would be a ton of backlash for not letting us play as one of the three most marketed charcters path. The only real feasible solutions to me are cut SS or they should have delayed the main game release even longer. I am actually on team both of those options tbh but still think three houses is my favorite fe.
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7 hours ago, XRay said:
I lean towards +Atk for Vantage since that is his niche and is better than Phina by 1 point in Atk. His only other Counter-Vantage competitor with an open B slot is Kronya.
Personally, I would just keep both and run different skill sets unless Barracks space is an issue or something.
For the bonus unit, I do not think their bonus stats factors into the score. As far as I know, the only thing different about them compared to other units is that they double your score. For every other scoring criteria, they are pretty much like other units on the team.
I would keep one of each, for Aether Raids defense and for build diversity.
While Duma sort of synergizes with Thrasir, outside of the battle damage on turn 1 (and that is assuming the player is not running Healing Tower (O) or any sort of healers), it is difficult to make them work well together, so unless you have a specific set up in mind that uses both very well on the same team, it is better to just run two Thrasirs in my opinion for a low investment defense team.
For build diversity, Thrasir has a pretty decent Atk stat for Counter-Vantage, so if you ever want her to take that route, you can use have the +Atk Thrasir run that build while you can keep +Spd Thrasir with her default build.
Yeah I might just keep them both for now. The first merge was easy since literal same ivs + attack (this was before I pulled the speed one) so might as well get rid of the bane this one not so sure on. (for the record the attack one is only +1)
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Btw i have +attack and a plus speed Thrasir from a while back which one should I merge the other into or should I keep one of each?
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CF
VW
AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SS
SS is unfixable for me no matter what route it is attached to. A route without a leader other than Byleth doesn't work because the story is about Byleth and there relationships with others not Solo Byleth. That is unless they make it about something so much diffrent from the rest of the game like a Byleth never goes to Gareg Mach route but that is never happening.
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1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:
+10 merge. +Atk. Base kit with Galeforce instead of Bonfire and the Heavy Blade Sacred Seal.
Ah I only have a +1 +res one still good but not as broken as a plus 10 obviously
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Honestly I kind of think a route split could work better in the Golden Deer than Black Eagles. That route split would be once you get back from the timeskip deciding which other faction you want to ally with. The alliance seems like it is willing to work with either other faction without too much issues. But I fear the main reason that it didn't happen is they were resolved to keep the other lords out of the routes as much as possible. In both other routes Claude could take a bigger ally route but he was held back from doing so probably out of fear of having any story have two lords together (as in alliance wise) at all costs. And once that is done they can go back to having a unique GD specific path with dealing with TWSID while having the other allied faction protect there homeland off screen while the Deer take care of the main threat.
Edit: And I think Claude taking the place of the namless Imperial troops that attack the Fedlarus lands in the last couple of chapters of CF would be a way to let him stay in the story somewhat without overtaking Edelgard in CF. Likewise have Claude fight the areas that are taken over the areas of the empire that are attacked by other nameless Kingdom forces in AM does the same in AM. The focal point is still on the other lords of the route.
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1 hour ago, Landmaster said:
It's not about Edelgard, it's about not attacking the Church whom they have no reason to do so. If Claude or Dimitri had Edelgard's role, my answer would be the same. Byleth should be able to refuse declaring war on the church, period. Having a bond with your students doesn't mean I'm going to agree to attack the church with you. Especially since refusing does not result in your entire class leaving, it's only Edelgard and Hubert. So the majority of students stick with Byleth's decision, regardless.
You have even less reason to go after the student who is against the church is my point. Whether that is Dimtri, Edelgard, Calude or another one of your students doesn't really matter that much. Part 1 interactions with heck even part 2 interactions with the church on non-cf give you reasons to be wary of them on all routes. Two of the biggest non-student influnces on Byleth Sothis and Jeralt are like don't trust the church too much. Yes it is a hard choice but the payoff for SS is practically non-existent because how much more development of characters the students got over the staff.
23 minutes ago, Timlugia said:I think we also need to consider a variable here when discussing value of Silver Snow vs Verdant Wind:
Had VW was not rushed on release date, but as a post release DLC content, both Silver Snow and Crimson Flower might look very different today
I don't know how much time and effort they spent on Verdant Wind, but the same resources could be used to greatly improve other routes.
Besides, if Verdant Wind was released later, it is almost guaranteed it would be a completely unique path rather than copy of Silver Snow.
Still would rather SS be dlc or removed entirely. I don't think its a given that VW is the one that should be the one on the chopping block over SS. Plus logically it makes more sense to have a route for all three routes be release at launch.
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1 hour ago, Crysta said:
Alright, I think I get you better, and I generally agree. It sounds like the generally agreed sentiment that Seteth/Flayn just can't fill the role of an Edelgard or Claude, and it'd still suck even if you cut out VW and put additional resources into the remaining routes?
Pretty much but I would say its not really Seteth or Flayn being lacking so much as its a down right impossible fill and as such I would rather they cut SS as it attempts to fill impossible holes rather than vw. VW has value in my eyes but SS doesn't as it goes down a road that doesn't really lead anywhere without opening massive holes.
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8 minutes ago, Crysta said:
With SS, Byleth doesn't need to sacrifice his bonds with the rest of his students. They follow after him either way.
That being the case, how is it not about Edelgard? Your bond with the rest of your students may be just as significant, but they aren't the deciding factor.
Your still on a different page from what I am saying so let me try saying it another way. I am saying that SS has massive massive issues no matter what route you attach it too. You are giving up a massive investment of several highly invested charcters for lesser invested ones and its not even done well. The role played by the house leaders and there friends is simply too heavily invested in to go to others midstory and it doesn't really matter which one they try to replace. The routes push your bonds with the mainlords way more than they do with Rhea and Seteth.
For the record I think the fact you are for or against the church is irreverent for if SS is good or not. SS would still be the most flawed route if all three houses worked in Harmony but you didn't get to play with or interact the most heavily story invested characters being Claude, Dimtri and Edelgard other than one or two cutscenes they help you out in. The games story is just not set up to have other charcters try to take there place. And a big reason for that is the bonds with your students (which includes them) being so much more developed than the others.
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3 minutes ago, Landmaster said:
Byleth should not be obligated to side with Edelgard. Byleth doesn't need to have any kind of religious connection with the church to not want to attack them. They have lived there for about a year when the attack in the Holy Tomb occurs. Byleth has no problems with any of those at the Monestary. So they should absolutely have the right to refuse Edelgard.
3 minutes ago, Crysta said:Shoehorning a player into supporting a character who is clearly doing morally dubious stuff is bad, particularly if you've given them no indication that the character is going to do questionable stuff before they choose to follow them. There is a reason why SS is actually supposed to be the "default" BE route, while CF is the trickier one to get into.
My point was the bonds Bylteth has with their own house (which can include everyone other than the other two lords Dedue, Hubert and if your on CF specifically Hilda) is likely stronger than those with the church big wigs by a significant amount. Byleth spends far more time with people like Annette and Mecie over Rhea and Seteth. Part of it is due to their jobs and roles that they have to play sure but it is a pretty large factor.
Also I think both of you are trying to make it about Edelgard when it isn't really. I think Byleth chooses Dimtiri who goes against the church or Claude who goes against the church too. Yes the story didn't play out that way but Byleth's strongest bonds are with the students over Rhea and the other church officials. The teacher side is how Byleth grew and actually became more expressive I don't see Byleth going against that for Rhea who Byleth has a bond with but not nearly the one that Byleth has with their entire house. Its more so I am arguing Rhea < [entire house of players choice] as far as bonds go that I am arguing for than anything and if forced to choose on ANY route its more likely that they side with their students than the staff of the monastery. Its why Silver snow is so flawed as it tries to push the bond that clearly doesn't have much impact.
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Actually got to thinking how much does Rhea interact with the students of the officers academy? I am not talking about the house leaders here but regular students like Sylvain, Lysthiea, Marieanne, Ferdninand, Ashe, Bernedetta, Hapi, ect. Or in previous generations people like Holst, Younger Yuri, Younger Balthus ect. I know in the advice box Rhea has some things saying she should interact more with the students but I wonder just how much she does do that.
Who should have betrayed their faction?
in Fire Emblem: Three Houses
Posted
I think you are looking too hard into seeing things a certain way right now tbh. CF discussion is not always about Edelgard its about how independent of everything else it complicates things because it doesn't truly begin until after the timeskip. And it has other unique factors that make it weird to not get its fair shake of discussion either. And as for why people go to more lengths to discuss and defend it its because of how the game is structured more than anything else. Claude is relegated to side character that doesn't do much overall in AM or CF. Dimitri doesn't do much other than show up for one battle during VW or CF. Because of this people focus more on the empire as it takes more of plot focus despite it being a three way war evidenced by the battle of eagle lion part 2 among other things like Claude having his own ambitions.