[Exactly how smart is Nemesis?]

2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The "personal consequences" would have been Duke Aegir getting killed and replaced by an Agarthan, LOL. Like, sure, Duke Aegir was a bad and power-hungry person. But let's not pretend that making a moral grandstand after the fact would have stopped Thales in his mission.

Yeah, I suppose you're right, it wouldn't have really made a difference if Aegir hadn't complied. But the fact that they could've replaced him too if that had been the case certainly does speak to their abilites.

The issue with trying to determine Nemesis's merit as a leader though, is that there's no way to definitively tell how deeply the Agarthans were involved in the growth of his regime. We can only speculate based on how we see them operate within the Empire and the Kingdom, with varying opinions. I think it's safe to say though, based on what we do know about him, that Nemesis was undoubtedly determined in his not-so-noble conquest of Fódlan and had no shortage of loyal followers who seemed to genuinely believe in him. To what extent the Agarthans were responsible for this is entirely debatable, but either way I'd agree that Nemesis had a bit more in his head than your average bandit, for better or for worse.

[Exactly how smart is Nemesis?]

5 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

It's difficult to replace people in general, or they would do it more than they do. In particular, if they could replace people so easily, they could also just replace people en masse in ancient Adrestia and control both nations in the war.

This is true, but keep in mind the example I gave was more of a logical worst case scenario than what likely actually happened. Realistically speaking though, I doubt it would've taken much more than a few strategic replacements for the Agarthans' influence to take root in Nemesis's regime without any suspicions. I mean, just look at the bloody mess they were able to make of both Adrestia and Faerghus present day with only one known mole in either territory. At the start of the game, we're looking at an Adrestian Empire that practically belongs to Thales. And the only two people who are even aware of this are Edelgard and Hubert, all because Thales blew his cover to Edelgard when performing the Crest experiments. If Thales hadn't done that, then who's to say anybody in the Empire would've ever found out about his manipulations.

5 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Logic suggests that if replacement were really common at any point in history, that people would eventually figure out about them. Since not even Rhea knows such a thing is possible, it's likely a trick they've used very sparingly over the years (if they even developed it before relatively recently).

Well, Rhea is pretty much the poster child for "head-in-sand management" when it comes to situations, like proof of Agarthan activity or the ugly reality of the Crest system, that could potentially expose her lies. I mean, take a look at how she handled the incident that supposedly created Aliell, the Valley of Torment. Garreg Mach would've been annihilated right there and then if that javelin of light hadn't bounced off the shield and blown up where it did. And yet Rhea barely even reacts. She just bullshits up a cover story for why there's suddenly a smoldering crater adorning the Kingdom-Alliance border and continues no further investigation into what happened or who was responsible. Even if she's somehow figured out that the Agarthans are able to kill and replace whoever they please, that's certainly not something she's about to acknowledge openly.

5 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Duke Aegir was reliant on Arundel for his power, though. As Prime Minister, rather than a powerful monarch, he only ruled because the nobility of Adrestia preferred him to Ionius. Notably, as soon as Arundel (+ Hevring, Bergliez, Gerth) withdraws his support for Aegir, he immediately falls. In other words, since Aegir clearly needed Arundel, it would have been easy for Arundel to make certain, "small" demands, such as greenlighting the experiments on the Imperial family, in exchange for his continued support.

Had Aegir valued ethics over bolstering his own political clout, he could've simply refused to carry out Arundel's demands and dealt with the personal consequences. Arundel got his way there because he knew Aegir was enough of a selfish dick that he'd immediately be on board. Thales found a person in power who he could easily move with his words, and wormed his way in there like any good Agarthan would.

5 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I don't think we have any positive proof about it, and you raise some interesting points about the timeline maybe not lining up perfectly. That said, either she's an Agarthan, or she's so deeply and knowingly entwined with them that she might as well be one. Consider that:
-She has the Agarthan Technology personal skill, which is otherwise only seen on major Agarthan characters.
-She employs Titanus dolls, Agarthan technology otherwise only seen in Shambhala
-During CF, Edelgard specifically targets her because she is an Agarthan (or a very direct ally), and Cornelia deduces that Edelgard is doing this, for this reason.
-She speaks of the "Kingdom" as something she does not consider herself part of, i.e. "Titanus, my lovely dolls... Seek out the enemy and destroy them! And if the chance presents itself, I wouldn't mind being rid of those unsightly Kingdom forces too!"
-She references being part of the conspiracy to manipulate Edelgard.

If by some chance she was never replaced, then she's just a power-hungry human who knows exactly what she is doing and is not being manipulated, so she's not much like Aegir (or any interpretation of Nemesis either of us have floated)

You're absolutely right in saying she's involved herself so closely with the Agarthans' plans that it ultimately doesn't matter to the plot if she's really Agarthan or not. I was just using her specific case, should she have been the real deal, as an example of how effectively the Agarthans can play to the corrupt people in governments and persuade them to aid in their "cause."

5 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Mm, I don't think we know enough to speculate about Nemesis's moral compass, but I definitely disagree about the ambitions! This man was a king, the leader of a nation and was willing to risk his life in war to maintain or expand his power. I'd also argue it was strongly implied that he believed humans should not be ruled by the Nabateans (it explains his title, it explains his actions, and it explains why Rhea sees so much parallel between Nemesis and her enemies in CF).

The only issue is, that at the time of Nemesis's uprising, the Nabateans really weren't ruling over anyone. Sothis's war against Agartha was long over, the remaining Agarthans had been in hiding ever since and humainity was effectively ruling itself. If memory serves me correctly, Rhea had a small church in Enbarr: a regular non-theocratic church. But otherwise the Nabateans were more or less just there, not hurting anybody. Any distrust or violence towards them at that point, like Nemesis and his followers demonstrated through their relentless slaughter, was fueled by nothing but plain old racism. No desire to be free from Nabatean rule, no feelings of oppression or betrayal, just "humans good, dragons not human, kill dragons." I think that alone says enough about Nemesis's moral compass to tell us that he lacked a proper one.

As for his greater ambitions, I'm not seeing very much beyond Nabatean genocide, which is exactly what the Agarthans want. As far as I can tell, Nemesis would've had no qualms whatsoever about accepting their assistance, assuming again that he even knew about them. They literally wanted the same thing, unlike the case later on with Edelgard.

[Exactly how smart is Nemesis?]

6 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Historically, it's... very difficult to make a puppet ruler stay a puppet for long, unless you have an extremely strong hold on him or her. Consider all the Nemesis had going for him. He had the Sword of the Creator. He had the loyalty of many people: an army, a nation, the Elites. If the Agarthans had tried to coerce him to do things he didn't want, I do not think they would have been successful for long... any threats they might try to hold over him (e.g. to his family, if any) would be temporary, and he would have had decades to use the many resources at his disposal to cut his strings and become a King in truth.

Given what we know the Agarthans are capable of, I'd guess that whatever hold they may have had on Nemesis was pretty damn strong. Threats (to family and such like you mentioned) and other direct forms of leveraging aren't how the Agarthans play ball. We see a couple exceptions to this, of course, like their attempts to keep Edelgard on a leash (and like you said, we all know how that goes down). But their entire schtick for the most part is remaining invisible, working in the shadows to infiltrate governments and turn the political tide in such ways that nobody ever realizes they're being manipulated until the damage is already done. There's all the possibility that Nemesis's entire regime was riddled with Agarthan imposters; replacing all his most trusted advisors, generals, vassals, servants and God knows who else to secretly influence his every tactical, political and economic decision; and he didn't even know it. The place could've been the Agarthan Empire in all but name, while Nemesis sat on his throne sipping blood out of a skull and not suspecting a thing. That's how the Agarthans are able to sieze power so effectively. Shapeshifting is terrifying when placed in the wrong hands.

6 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Cornelia and Arundel were literally replaced; the Agarthans had no such option with Nemesis, because he bore the Crest of Flames. Once he had established his leadership and obtained the relics used by himself and his allies, the Agarthans would have needed Nemesis more than he needed them, for their goal of winning the war against Seiros. It's very difficult to control someone under those circumstances.

Duke Aegir wasn't replaced, though. And look at what sort of atrocity he was persuaded to greenlight, simply because he was a corrupt enough man and "Lord Arundel" told him to.

Also, are we certain that Cornelia was replaced too? I know that Dimitri and a couple of NPCs mention that there was a shift in her personality a while back. But we also know that Cornelia first came to the Kingdom in Year 1165, when Dimitri would've only been two years old, and that three years later (1168) she'd already kidnapped Hapi and was performing experiments on her. Unless she was replaced at some point during that three year span and little four-year-old Dimitri somehow picked up on a difference in her personality, then I'd assume that the "shift" everybody noticed happened some bit of time later, as it seems like she was up to no good from the moment she set foot in the Kingdom. She also, unlike Tomas and Monica, never made any kind of suspicious disappearance. My guess is that she was another one along the lines of Duke Aegir, a crappy person all along (and good at hiding it) who the Agarthans had no trouble convincing to do their dirty work in the Kingdom. As the years went on, maybe her "kindly court mage" facade started to crack, and that's when Dimitri and everyone else picked up on a noticeable shift.

6 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

We see the same thing with the Agarthans and Edelgard, and we know how that story ends.

Edelgard had two things though, that Nemesis didn't appear to. A moral compass, and greater ambitions. Not to mention a personal vandetta with the Agarthans for the Crest experimentation they did on she and her siblings. Friendly cooperation was never in the cards there. Nemesis didn't seem to have as many hangups, and again that's assuming he was even aware of the Agarthans' presence.

7 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

It's a weird scenario - you'd think that, if Rhea and the Church were propagating a false history, it'd be one that makes her side look better, and her historic foe look worse. Instead, the Church's version actually makes Nemesis look better than how he appears in VW, while also burying her allies whom he had killed. I have to imagine it's some sort of "compromise history", to convince those who had supported Nemesis to instead turn their allegiance to the Church. Like how a shrewd politician might "rehabilitate" the image of a former rival, in order to quell dissent from said rival's faction.

Adding to that, it was also a necassary step in order for Rhea to sucessfully establish the Crest system. The 10 Elites, being the first Crest bearers, needed to be presented as something akin to paragons of humanity in Rhea's falsified version of history, so that future generations would buy into her whole "gifts from the goddess" spiel. The Nabateans they killed on the other hand, would've either needed to be vilified, or redacted from history altogether. Rhea chose the former, as it seems, because the slaying of "evil gods" sounded like another good testament to the Elites' heroism.

[Exactly how smart is Nemesis?]

16 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

We have an unbiased source of information in the form of Maurice, who was too busy being a monster to be influenced by Rhea's version of history. He recognizes the Sword of the Creator as "the sword of the king!" Maurice was one of Nemesis's subordinates, so he would know if Nemesis had any actual authority. The Fragments of a Forgotten Memoir, written by an unknown Elite, also refer to Nemesis as "King Nemesis." The "King of Liberation" title might be an embellishment since Thales uses it in a sarcastic way, though Maurice asks if Byleth will "liberate" him with the Sword of the Creator. It might have originated as an ominous title that was mutated into a noble one by Rhea.

Per a developer interview, Rhea claiming that Nemesis was a chosen hero corrupted by power was her way to get Nemesis's followers on her side, since his followers actually did believe him and the Elites to be heroes. So it's very likely Nemesis was considered a true king by his people, and he was in power for over 150 years so it's likely that he had reasonable leadership skills (and he as an Authority rating of A when you fight him).

You're right, I'd forgotten about Maurice. I so rarely use the SotC on Byleth nowadays, I didn't even recall any unique dialogue related to it. So at the very least it seems we've got some solid proof that Nemesis was in fact an actual king. The extent to which he was a puppet king, however, remains unclear. Like I said, his success and 150 year reign may in fact have been the work of the Agarthans. As we see from the way they influence the Empire and the Kingdom in present day Fódlan, the Agarthans have a habit of remaining invisible to the public as they covertly sway the decisions of major political leaders (e.g. Duke Aegir, Cornelia). Nemesis's followers, including the 11 Elites, wouldn't have even had a clue that their king was secretly being coerced by a couple of shriveled old grey dudes (who'd probably killed and replaced his most trusted advisors) and reasonably assumed that Nemesis was responsible for his own success as a ruler. In other words, Maurice may be the closest thing we have to a reliable source regarding Nemesis's status, but he may not have had the clearest impression of the king's competence.

11 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

That event wasn't entirely made-up, though. Nemesis did slay quite a few Nabateans, which may very well have won him acclaim from many anti-Nabatean humans. Some of whom became his key disciples, the 11 (at the time) Elites. To them, at least, he was seen as a King of Liberation. The myth was changed (so that the Nabateans he killed were remembered as "wicked gods"), presumably to appease and control the remaining supporters of Nemesis. 

Ah, I'd never thought of it that way. The "wicked gods" tale could've easily been Rhea's corruption of the Red Canyon tragedy. After all, her fake story already rewrites Nemesis and the Elites as heroes, so it makes sense that she'd also try to put a villainous spin on the other Nabateans who Nemesis so "valiantly" genocided. His supporters would've seen that as "liberation", because they were against the Nabateans and probably felt "oppressed" by their presence.

[Exactly how smart is Nemesis?]

15 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I get the impression that he had a significant chunk of Fodlan's humans on his side, otherwise how would he have been able to keep a war going, and to maintain his territory during it? A successful military campaign isn't just a matter of shiny swords and a few clever scheming mole-men, it requires the resources of a large number of people to keep an army fed, supplied, and in high morale for so long. We also know he had control of much of northern Fodlan. So it's more likely that he legitimately was a king of sorts. Even if he's a bit of a brute (a characterization which, I'll remind you, comes from his enemy), I'd expect him to be something closer to Genghis Khan or Atilla the Hun than a self-important crime lord.

I certainly don't doubt the scale of his conquest, though I do question how much of his campaign; food, supplies and morale included; was actually achieved by his own merit. A boisterous, loudmouthed figurehead can most definitely draw the support needed to wage a continent-wide war, as well as keep his army in high spirits. But was he a tactician? Was he skilled in the finer aspects of warfare beyond just "kill a lot of people until you get what you want"? Did he have any of the political or financial savvy necassary for managing and funding his war? He's just a bandit, how could he? These are the type of questions that lead me to suspect some Agarthan Wormtongue whispering in his ear before every major decision he makes.

15 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Also, the title "King of Liberation", whether self-styled or ascribed to him by his followers, speaks to someone with loftier ideals than mere banditry. (Yes, it could be a reference to him liberating people's heads from their shoulders... but Occam's razor suggests that's not the case, to me at least. Had the writers wanted him to come across as a jerkass bandit and nothing more, something like "the butcher king" would have been more fitting, no?)

I got the impression that "King of Liberation" was simply another part of Rhea's elaborate lie, rather than any actual title Nemesis was given during his lifetime. Going by this quote from Seteth at the end of Ch.4, it was an entirely made-up event (his slaying of some unnamed "wicked gods") that earned Nemesis his supposed title.

Quote

Seteth: Nemesis, the King of Liberation. He is an ancient king of mankind who was defeated by Seiros over a thousand years ago. When Fódlan was attacked by wicked gods, it is said that the goddess gifted Nemesis with the Sword of the Creator. Nemesis used that sword to defeat the wicked gods, saving all of Fódlan. Henceforth he was dubbed the King of Liberation.

From there, it's possible to assume that Nemesis was never actually named a "King of Liberation" by himself or his followers, and that the title was just as much BS as the "wicked gods" story it orginated from. After all, we never once hear the resurrected Nemesis refer to himself in such a way. Seems unlikely he'd suddenly be unaware of his own title, unless it was never his to begin with. Back in the day, he may very well have been called a "butcher king" or something similar by his enemies or Felix-esque detractors.

15 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Finally, it's worth remembering that on Crimson Flower, Rhea is very willing to characterize her foes, and Byleth in particular, as the second coming of Nemesis:

Because to Rhea, Nemesis represents something else entirely, something far more personal to her than merely a king or a bandit. Nemesis to her is the man responsible for the greatest tragedy of her life, the one who killed her mother and massacred her entire family before her eyes. When she compares Byleth to Nemesis, it's because she feels that what Byleth did is just as awful as what Nemesis did. Which at face value sounds absolutely bananas (because it kinda is), but actually makes a slight bit of sense when you look at it from Rhea's rather twisted point of view. She could definitely see Byleth choosing to side against the Church as Byleth effectively "killing" Sothis again, as in doing this she's choosing to act as her own person rather than submit to being a vessel for Sothis's resurrection. It's a pretty ridiculous comparison to make, but that's just how Rhea does. Also, if you consider the below, there's the possibility that Rhea feels as though Nemesis "betrayed" her, just as she feels Byleth did.

15 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Also notice that even she acknowledges him as a King.

This is purely headcanon, but certain pieces of her in-game dialogue (especially on CF) have led me to wonder if Rhea, in some small part, believes her own lies. It would most definitely be in keeping with the delusional nature of her character, and explain why she doubles down so religiously (heh) on the lies she's told, even in moments of pure, raw emotion where a lot of people would be prone to a slip-up. If this is indeed the case, then I could see Rhea, at her least composed and with bloody dreams of revenge invading her every thought, mistaking bits and pieces of her own made-up story about Nemesis for the truth.

[Exactly how smart is Nemesis?]

@Dark Holy Elf

Here's the bit of dialogue (VW Ch.20) I was basing my speculations on:

Quote

Rhea: Nemesis was originally the leader of a group of bandits. He plundered the Holy Tomb and stole the remains of the progenitor god. When Nemesis appeared in Zanado some time later, he already wielded the Sword of the Creator.

Byleth: How did he get the Sword of the Creator?

Rhea: I do not know how Nemesis obtained the sword, or why he appeared in Zanado. But he used that sword to massacre the people there. The children of the progenitor god. From their corpses he gained even more power, and brought war to Fódlan...

Claude: That's completely different from what the legends tell us about Nemesis.

Rhea: A mere bandit like Nemesis would not have been capable of anything so monstrous on his own...

Claude: Aha! So Nemesis had accomplices. And those accomplices must have been those who slither in the dark. They used Nemesis! And this time they used the Imperial army to once again bring war to Fódlan!

Now granted this is Rhea we're talking about, so I don't imagine this snippet reflects the whole truth of what went down between Nemesis and the Nabateans. But I think that there's enough here at least to assume that Nemesis was acting as a pawn of the Agarthans. Perhaps my Kostas comparison was a bit hyperbole, but the fact that he's described on multiple accounts (including, tellingly, Arundel's) as a mere thief/bandit who couldn't have pulled off a single well-coordinated attack on his own, let alone an entire war, leads me to believe that there was most definitely some Agarthan behind the scenes bullshittery contributing to his rise and success as a military leader.

3 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

We know very, very little about the time of Nemesis, but my impression was that he was a worthy foe for the combined might of Serios and the young Adrestian Empire of the time, which suggests someone competent. You can credit all of that to skillful Agarthan influence, but given how woefully ineffective the Agarthans are at attempting to do the same thing in the present day, I'm not inclined to be as charitable to them as you.

Well, he did bear the Crest of Flames and wield the Sword of the Creator, which in terms of canonical strength and renown is a big deal. That alone would contribute greatly to his historical reputation and explain why he was so difficult to get the upper hand on, even with the combined might of Seiros and the early Adrestians. The tactics used by his forces though, how they were able to persist for so long, could easily have been the Agarthans working their puppet strings in the background. We're talking about different Agarthans than the ones we see in present day Fódlan, after all. Thales and Solon were absolute idiots, yes, but these guys could've been way more skilled.

3 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

This is someone who led an army and was styled as a king by his people, whose leadership (along with the Elites) was popular enough that the falsified history kept them on as heroes and Nemesis as a tragically corrupted figure (rather than Kostas-like brute).

Well, seeing as Rhea wants everyone to buy into her idea that Crests were originally sacred gifts from the goddess, that kinda makes the first Crest bearers out to be a pretty huge deal in Fódlan's history, being the ones supposedly worthy of the goddess's "gifts" and all. Hailing them as great heroes of the past sounds a lot better to the public ear than telling everyone they were murderers and thieves, when you're talking about the people who your beloved goddess supposedly chose to bear her sacred gifts and pass them down to future generations.

As for his reputation as a "king" among his own men, this could simply be the overblown musings of an arrogant bandit boss and his boot-licking cronies. Think of the stereotypical portrayal of people like pirate captains and crime lords, with their inflated personalities and flair for theatrics. Underneath all those layers of ham, they're basically just criminals and lowlives bossing around other criminals and lowlives. But their larger-than-life image gives others the impression of someone more important than they actually are. Add that to the whole Crest of Flames/StoC deal, and you've got the perfect recipe for an egomaniac who fancies himself a king.

[Exactly how smart is Nemesis?]

3 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I don't know what that means.

That said I think if any definition of "not smart" includes someone who can successfully lead a war effort for decades, it's probably not a very useful definition.

I might be mistaken, but I kinda got the impression that the Agarthans had more to do with that than Nemesis himself. Nemesis was more or less just a useful tool (in both senses) to the Agarthans. Enough brute strength and manpower behind him to be of good service to them, but aimless and gullible enough that they could easily con him into doing whatever they wanted. The thinking and planning that went into the war effort was more likely the Agarthans pulling the strings behind the curtain, while Nemesis (whether he knew it or not) simply played out his part. I joked about him probably being dumber than Kostas, but Hero's Relic aside, they really weren't all that much diffferent from each other.

[Exactly how smart is Nemesis?]

44 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

He's a standard Fire Emblem bandit who got lucky. So he's probably not very smart. Nothing about his appearance or brief glimpses of his personality indicates any intellectual prowess either. 

This. He's basically the Agarthans' dumbass fall guy, resurrected from 1000+ years ago. Dude probably couldn't even beat Kostas at checkers, let alone conquer all of Fódlan lol

[If you were at Garreg Mach, what class path would you go on?]

2 hours ago, Theolexluna said:

Reason List: Misma, Mire B, Banshee Θ, Death Γ, Dark Spikes T, Thunder, Bolting, Meteor, Thorn, Swarm Z, Luna Λ, Hades, Fire, Agnea's arrow  

Faith List  Aura, Heal, Recover, Physic, Warp, Rescue, Restore, Silence 

So... god mode, basically?

Spoiler

Also you forgot Bohr X and Quake Z, the extra dark enemy-only spells.

 

[If you were at Garreg Mach, what class path would you go on?]

Commoner > Monk > Priest > Bishop > Gremory

I'll bitch at Rhea all week until she lets me crossdress as a Gremory. Or wait until the timeskip, since I know Edie wouldn't mind it at all.

House: Black Eagles. I could probably be convinced to join the Blue Lions, but not the Golden Deer. And I'm definitely pulling a Hubert if Byleth goes Silver Snow.

Boons: Faith and Authority. I'm much more of a follower irl, so not a huge fan of doing typical "authority" type stuff like bossing people around. But Authority in 3H also means rallies, which seem way more friendly and encouraging (at least when Annette does them lol) than anything, like teamwork rather than leadership. And the Black Eagles could really use a rallybot. Sorry Hubie, nobody's buying it. You're too much of a grouch.

Banes: I imagine I'd suck pretty bad at any form of close combat, so Sword, Lance, Axe and Brawling. Heavy Armor too, no way in the hell am I strong enough to walk around in that shit lol

Learned Skills: Rally Strength, Rally Speed, Rally Dexterity, Rally Movement

Faith List: Heal, Nosferatu, Physic, Seraphim, Warp

Reason List: Blizzard, Fimbulvetr

[Dimitri : Dark Bishop]

Crappy class even on natural mages. If you wanna try magic Dimitri just for the hell of it, go with Dark Knight. Otherwise, just stick to Paladin/Wyvern Lord.

[Three Houses Timeskip Member Badges?]

On 6/25/2021 at 7:59 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

So I just reviewed my profile options, and... apparently (Academy-phase) Edelgard, Dimitri, and Claude are the only options thus far? That's absurdly limited, in a game with 39 playable characters. Compare to Shadows of Valentia, which has 38 playable characters, and 8 flair options (admittedly, one of which is Berkut). And Echoes is on the shorter side of representation!

Truthfully, my preference would be to see more characters represented in the flairs. Professor(s), Jeralt, and Seteth are all good picks. To this pool, I would add Rhea (major NPC/villain, representative of Silver Snow) and Yuri (representing Cindered Shadows). I have my own favorites, but I won't pretend that, say, an Annette flair would have enough currency to happen. Still, even if all that is added are the post-skip Lords, that's still more Three Houses representation than what we've got. We're talking about the best-selling game in the series, that's almost two years old already.

I agree, Three Houses in general still feels very under-represented around here. No "I fight for..." tags for the game either, I've noticed, when Adrestia/Faerghus/Leicester/Church of Seiros would be a good set of choices to have. Flairs for Byleth (M/F), Jeralt, Seteth, Rhea, Yuri, Hubert, Dedue and maybe Flayn are all something I'd hope to see as well, but at the very least I feel the timeskip lords are a must. I like to use a Dimitri flair when I'm playing his route, but I very much prefer his timeskip design. And I'll never forgive Catherine for probably convincing him to cut his hair as a kid:

Quote

• Dimitri: I'm not sure it was quite that long ago. Not really. But it matters not. I remember those times well. Particularly your first words to me. “Look at that young maiden wielding a giant lance. How adorable!”
• Catherine: Oh, don't look at me like that. I was thrown off by your haircut, that's all.

Jokes aside though, do you think it might be a good idea to bring the topic to someone's attention? I thought of dropping an @ to one of the higher-ups around here but I'm not sure who's in charge of stuff like this.

[Breaking News: Local cinnamon roll utterly humiliates alleged kidnapper]

13 hours ago, Sooks said:

Oh yeah, definitely get him bow crit for sniper crit spam. Bow crit + hunter’s volley + killer bow(+ if you can) = dead everything. Here is my sniper crit Shamir from my maddening run:

  Reveal hidden contents

Highlight the 99 crit. It was beautiful. She just obliterated everything, and it was an endgame on maddening! This is why FftF is the best here, because I can bring up my maddening run Shamir.

Damn, that's like the ideal Sniper build. Respect o.o

That's definitely what I'm hoping to achieve with my Ashe. I've gotta make him the deadliest cinnaroll he can be. For Lord Lonato! And Faerghus, yeah, blah blah...

[Breaking News: Local cinnamon roll utterly humiliates alleged kidnapper]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I'd call Ashe one of my favorites, but practically half the cast is "one of my favorites", so I don't know how much that means anymore. Very impressive! Any reason you made him a Dark Mage? Just to up the humiliation factor, perhaps?

It's a very, very stupid reason, I'll admit, but I was kinda stuck for a fifth skill to give him (Sniper crit spam being his end goal). I already got him Bow Prowess, Death Blow, Hit +20 and Dex +2... but I had no clue what to put in that last slot so I figured Poison Strike was at least semi-useful until he unlocks something better like Bow Crit. I suppose I could've just gone back and picked up the last two class exp for Fighter, but then I was actually kinda lazy curious what kind of weird BS he could pull off with Poison Strike, even if it's only good for a few odd situations. I decided I could afford to screw around a bit, since it's only a placeholder skill anyway lol

[Breaking News: Local cinnamon roll utterly humiliates alleged kidnapper]

27 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Shot with an arrow for a crime I did not commit. Alleged kidnapper! Pah! What's next?! Do they execute people for alleged banditry! 

Rhea: Yes! We do! And alleged littering too, the insolence!

The real cluprit's not getting off easy though, Dimitri's gonna channel his inner timeskip self and rip Solon to shreds! You don't tell the Prince of Faerghus he didn't return that Arundel book on time, lest you pay the price!

[Breaking News: Local cinnamon roll utterly humiliates alleged kidnapper]

All hail Ashe!

http://imgur.com/a/2O3TYR0

Full disclosure: this is NG+, he was all screwed up on steroi- I mean, uh... Annette's rally cookies, and I still had to soften DK up with a couple gambits first. But hell, my boy killed the Death Knight! He's not useless anymore!

Spoiler

Jk, best cinnamon roll is never useless 🙂

Stay tuned for the timeskip sequel, "Flayn-o-Fish Spills the Death Knight's Blood: A Tale of Karma"

[Help with F!Byleth build? (Azure Moon)]

On 6/23/2021 at 8:40 AM, Barren said:

Also @Resident Dingus if I may, if you’re doing Azure Moon, get Dimitri and Felix’s support up to rank B before part 1 ends. You’ll get something nice.

If you mean the

Spoiler

Sword of Zoltan,

I wouldn't exactly recommend going out of your way to get it, unless you plan on unlocking Dimitri and Felix's B-support anyway. By the time any of your units reach the sword rank to use it, you'll likely already have better weapons at your disposal, like Silver Sword+ and Wo Dao+, which are both easier to double with and don't need Wootz Steel to forge/repair.

[Questions regarding Lightning Axe Annette]

These are just my two cents since I've never actually done a Wyvern Annette build before (so please take what I say with a grain of salt), but Monk > Mage > Pegasus Knight > Valkyrie > Wyvern Lord seems like a good plan to me. In the end, this gets her Axe Prowess, Fiendish Blow, Darting Blow, Uncanny Blow and Mag +2; a pretty ideal setup for a player phase nuke.

As for Lightning Axe, I'm not entirely sure of all the math behind it, but as far as I can gather, it takes your weapon's Mt and uses it to calculate a magic damage attack (like what magic weapons do with regular attacks, I think). So I can't imagine Death Blow helps us at all, since it only boosts Str and we're not dealing physical damage anymore. Using a high Mt, high durability weapon (like Steel Axe+) with Fiendish Blow would probably be your best bet for dealing the highest amount of damage per Lightning Axe.

I hope this sort of helps. I'm just going off my limited knowledge of the game's mechanics here, so anyone else please feel free to correct me if I've gotten anything wrong.

[Help with F!Byleth build? (Azure Moon)]

5 hours ago, lenticular said:

Everyone else has covered most of what I would have said, but I will just add that there's nothing stopping you from keeping using bows no matter what class you go into. If you want to be a Falcon Knight who uses a bow, then that's a completely viable build.

I second this. Bow Falcon Knight kicks some serious ass, especially with Close Counter to take advantage of that +10 avo bonus. I've got Leonie in this build for my current Blue Lions run, and I'd almost say I enjoy it more than Bow Knight.

10 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

This build is a lot harder than you're making it out to be. Sword Crit +10 requires S-rank in Swords - to get that, the Professor will need to do a lot of Faculty Training. Alert Stance, similarly, only emerges at B+ Flight (and it's stronger form isn't until A+), so you'll not only have to persistently use Teach in a flying class, you'll also need to get her, you guessed it, Faculty Training. To tell the truth, this build sounds way more practicable on Ingrid (who has a boon in swords and flight alike, and who gains skill ranks through tutoring and teaching) than on the Professor herself. Not saying it's impossible, but it'll take a lot of work.

I'd also like to point out that Swordmaster's a very unrewarding class option, even among the other lackluster sword classes. Probably the worst advanced-tier class if I'm not lying. That 5 mov hurts, especially when you've got another Swordfaire class that's available at the exact same time (and arguably easier to get into) that's got 6 unrestricted mov and better stats overall.

[Help with F!Byleth build? (Azure Moon)]

Falcon Knight's her best class, so something like Soldier > Brigand > Pegasus Knight > Wyvern Rider > Falcon Knight should serve quite well. Lance Prowess, Death Blow, Darting Blow, Battalion Vantage and Swordbreaker/Alert Stance is a really good setup for her. One disadvantage to this build though, especially on a first run, is that it requires a lot of faculty training for the flying ranks. If you're feeling ambitious, though, this is Byleth's strongest setup in my experience.

For something a bit less time/resource intensive, Myrmidon > Brigand > Pegasus Knight > Assassin/Enlightened One is a good alternative. The bar for Pegasus Knight is generously low (D Flying), so not very much faculty training is needed. You can follow the same setup as for Falcon Knight, just switch Lance Prowess for Sword Prowess and Swordbreaker for Axebreaker. Enlightened One does have magic access, but Byleth's spell lists are very barebones, so I wouldn't invest all that much into faith or reason.

Of course, that's not to say she can't be good in some of the other classes as well. I've certainly had my fun with Sniper and War Cleric Byleth from time to time! She's actually quite strong in those two classes if you're looking for something a bit different.

[Favorite Three Houses characters Tier List]

Here's my list, I might've gotten a bit carried away with the tier names lol

Btw, I noticed Aelfric was missing from the template so I decided to give the poor sap some love and photoshop him in.

[Three Houses Timeskip Member Badges?]

Hello everyone! I hope I'm posting this to the right forum. This is my first time ever making a site-related topic, so I apologize if this needs to be moved or reposted somewhere else.

I was wondering if it would be possible to add timeskip versions of the Three Houses lords (Edelgard, Dimitri and Claude) as member badges, since we've only got their academy phase designs as of right now. I'd really enjoy having a timeskip Dimitri option, with his eyepatch and longer hair. Maybe we could include a few others as well, like Byleth (male and female), Jeralt or Seteth, if people are interested? The 3H options right now just feel a bit lacking compared to some of the other games.

Thank you, and please let me know what you think of this idea 🙂

["Warlock" is the good class ?]

10 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Worth noting the Riding/Lance training isn't totally trivial for either. Hanneman doesn't join until Chapter 8 and has E/D in those skills (as well as D authority and E faith, so he's got lots of training to do in less time)

There's always the option of temporarily slapping an Experience/Knowledge Gem on him if he's having any trouble catching up. I've done this before with late-join units like Seteth and it's seemed to make a difference. Helps with mastering some of the earlier classes (like Mage) quicker too.

["Warlock" is the good class ?]

@Dark Holy Elf

My bad, I probably could've worded that a bit more clearly. What I meant was that Warlock isn't good as an endgame class (like we were talking about in the Bishop topic), not that you shouldn't ever use it. As a transition from Mage to one of the other classes I mentioned, it works great. But I don't think I could name anyone who'd be better off staying in Warlock once the other options become available. Hanneman misses out on that second Meteor, sure, but Dark Knight offers him Tomefaire along with 7 Mov and Canto. Where Thoron's gonna be his go-to for the bulk of the fight, he grabs a better deal from Dark Knight's increased mobility. Same with Dorothea, really. Even with Black Magic x2, Meteor's still only two casts. The rest of the time, Thoron and Sagittae are her bread and butter. Even with Thyrsus, she's really gonna feel that 4 Mov in Warlock. Gremory lets her keep that second Meteor, but also helps improve her mobility. It doubles her uses of Physic as well, if that's at all of interest.

["Warlock" is the good class ?]

Dark Knight/Flier and Gremory exist, so... yeah Warlock sucks pretty bad. I can't justify using it on anyone, really.