Shiki Ryougi

Next poster: The Batter Starts off pretty strong D1, complete with an interesting vote on Titania. I think what threw me was this - despite mentioning this behavior from Endeavor, The Batter's tone shifts to a more passive one somewhere along the line. I'm not sure what to make of this. I'm going to continue reading, and maybe I'll make more sense. @Omar Little - Deal with it, I just read the entire game. I felt like modkilling myself after page 5. If I was smarter, I'd go to bed now, and let my subconscious sort it out. However, time's short, so I'm going to go over as much as I can, and hope that I can get something coherent out before phase end. Right now, my thoughts are all over the place.

First poster: Mello. My issue with his D1 was that he posts a lot of indirect comments. For example, this has four different people, but the only content that isn't a direct comment about someone else's actions is the Endeavor lynch. And even that is an indirect comment about others. In contrast, this is a direct comment. Shame it's on a mafia member, but it was the best example I could find. It gets better once D2 rolls around. This is a good post, though, since it conflicts with my first!Lapis read with some nice points. Due to the sub-out, and the lack of proper context elsewhere, I'm going to leave it at that. The D1 antics bother me, but it's not enough to warrant a vote, unless everyone else is obvtown on a second read. Yes, I'm going to devote a post to every single reread. I don't know how long it will take, and I'd rather have my thoughts out now than later.

I'm done with my initial read, and I have a gigantic headache. Following everyone's logic is damn hard when I'm thrown into a situation where there may or may not be a near-hammer. I'll start with an impressionpost, then reread everyone in-depth and get something more solid. Screw all of you for lynching my strongest townread on D1. I actually liked Crowler's logic, right up until that sub request. Rick/Titania's interactions ED1 made me want to publicly post my role PM so I wouldn't have to deal with them. Kudos to them for offing each other. Faye's biggest mistake IMO was not interacting more. That was a null lynch, and it's irritating. RIP Kratos, thanks mafia for getting rid of another player I didn't want to interact with. Would've pressed him on D3, had he lived, since he became very forgettable after his claim. I didn't have a very positive opinion about Endeavor until here. This was the towniest reaction to those votes that I could think of. The only reason why I'd place a vote here at this point would be on associative reads and lack of time. Is there enough time to move the wagon? Didn't have a very good opinion of Mello, but don't ask me to dig up quotes right now. This will happen come the second, in-depth read. Will decide whether or not I want to lynch this slot then. I keep forgetting that The Batter exists. At this stage in the game, it's bad. Like, Omar doesn't post as much as The Batter, but I remember more of his content (in a good way). Toshio's words to content ratio is awful. Like Mello, I need to reread this slot in depth. Unlike Mello, this is going to be exceedingly painful. Lapis' slot utterly confuses me. I liked the first Lapis, but am not as fond of the second one. Nagito's posting makes my head spin, but it's not as bad as Rick/Titania/Toshio. I don't really remember much else about this slot, and that's not a good thing. Kokichi needs to cut out the nicknames, because I'm having enough issues tracking who's who. Less headache-inducing than Nagito. Most memorable thing ATM is putting Endeavor at L-1. I don't like this, because of the sheer number of sub requests. A less careful sub would vote first and ask questions later. I regret subbing in already. Rather than do a proper lynch list, I'm going to reread Mello, The Batter, Toshio, Lapis, Nagito, and Kokichi, in that order. Not really feeling Endeavor/Omar as scum.

I'm here. Need to read everything.

@The Batter IIRC you had a townread on me. Yet your cases on both Endeavor and Faye list them being lazy/non-contributing. Am I not guilty of the same? Have I not myself admitted to being lazy? Why don't you suspect me as much as either of them?

But that means I need to read D1 again... no... Rick claimed to be wholeheartedly committed to an Endeavor lynch, but his logic throughout the case was rather weak. He could've folded on it given just one good post from Endeavor. There was still room for backing out of this, but Rick never had to. That's typical of scum logic. I can see how people would get scum/town vibes from this, but I don't feel like those feelings are strong enough to discount Endeavor's scummy behavior. He's lying low and I don't like that. Speaking of lying low, I still really don't like Kratos' content. Him being doctor is something that's hard to get around, but what if scum drafted other early numbers, so that they could competently draft a few pro-town roles for camouflage? Then again, I have an extreme prejudice against Kratos' playstyle. I just don't like firebrands, and find them scummy. It's a problem of mine.

And since we're all asking questions that "scum would totally never ask because they'd already know the answer", @BBM does the scum team know each other's true identities?

I vote-switched from Mello because my read on him was very weak as it was. I acknowledged in my read on him that, using Titania's logic, the claiming shenanigans on D1 had made his being scum unlikely. I just wanted to point out that, in the case that those were faked, there were still plenty of scummy things about Mello's play. But it was based on a very quick and lazy readthrough, so once I saw Mello's rebuttal, I knew that most of my original points were pointless. BTW the reason I voted Mello over Endeavor was because I felt like I had a more original case against Mello, while my Endeavor case relied on a lot of what others had said. Hence, Mello would be responding to me directly (as he did), while Endeavor would be responding to an entire group of detractors. At first, Toshio's logic on Rick/Endeavor was rubbing me the wrong way, but after looking at it again, I think I can actually back that up. At any rate, I would hardly consider Rick's treatment of Endeavor "hardbussing". Endeavor's infrequent posting and basic post content reminds me of a certain Mafioso from a past game who managed to get pretty far in the game with subsistence reads. Granted, one could say the same about me, but I actually know why I'm unable to post anything good or frequent. I suppose I'll put my vote there, then: Vote: Endeavor I'm really not OK with lynching Faye. Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather not lynch someone pretty much solely for the reason of not posting anything. If Faye is scum, she's still not that valuable of a target. And I can understand IRL issues getting in the way of things here, that's hit me pretty hard too.

This is driving me nuts. I wanted to post more today (sound familiar anybody?) but I JUST. CAN'T. CATCH. A. BREAK. So while I do some quick reading, I wanted to go ahead and put a few things out there: @Mello Congratualtions! You are now officially being townread by me, because along with the already overwhelming evidence in your favor from the whole claiming deal, your post rebutting my case against you was one of the towniest things I've read all day. The thing I loved most about your post, however, was that you called me out for making lazy posts. Thank you! Somebody finally noticed! my posts are extremely lazy, based off of minimal reading and indefensible logic. Anybody who hasn't picked up on that already isn't paying enough attention. @Endeavor Sorry, dude. I don't actually know where your character is from, but I know a girl IRL whose name is Endeavor. I didn't mean to offend you, man. Peace out, bro. After reading the last few posts I'm leaning a little bit towards Toshio but I'm not really sure of anything right now.

This is what I get for forgetting to close the tab. That's about where this game got too twisted for my sleepy mind to comprehend. There's not much I can say about it. I've always heard that nobody really cared for insomniac on SF, so I don't think it's that much of a game-changer.

There's a lot to cover here and I don't really have time for it all tonight, but this should give you all something to chew on. After my first read-through, I can agree with the sentiment that Kratos is town. I really don't like his attitude and know exactly who it belongs to and it brings back bad memories of scum in the past, but unless the doctor claim is faked somehow I don't really see how that could be the case. I still suspect Endeavor and Mello for previously stated reasons, but they could both use to post some new content. Omar is a little fishy because nothing about their posts really stands out to me as original, but IMO that's usually just a misconception that gets corrected on a reread. Faye... I don't want to lynch this slot until I hear what her sub has to say. Toshio and Nagito are a little confusing to me, I didn't think there would be scum in there but I didn't think Rick would be scum either. Kokichi is in the same boat, along with the Batter. I feel like one of these townreads is scum, something about the way Rick played suggests to me that there was another experienced player he was bouncing off of for support. Rick's flip has really thrown me, I bet Titania took him out because he looked like a solid town player. I need to reread but I also need to sleep. 2018 is not taking it easy on my schedule, in my line of work extremely bitter weather means more hours spent on various stuff. I hope to have more time tomorrow. And I see your rageposts, Kratos, I'll deal with them tomorrow if I decide there's enough actual substance to them. I should leave my vote somewhere for tonight... ##Vote: Mello Looking forward to some content here. Oh yeah, I'm suspected by well-nigh everyone at this point. Where's my wagon? Honestly, I'm just a little interested in who would be onboard with lynching me at the moment, it would help me greatly with forming my own scumreads. G'night!

Alright. I still have a lot going on IRL, but the last thing we need is someone else subbing out, so I’ll try and stick to it. I'm going to have a five-minute window to post this before I have to go to work, so no NK reaction yet. In my opinion, the scummiest players right now are Endeavor, Kratos, and Mello. Here is my reasoning: Endeavor has been a fairly infrequent poster with questionable reads throughout the game. Her vote on me seemed rather easy, she was reluctant to address any of my posts afterwards, and she didn’t offer the best reasoning for her Crowler vote either. I understand that time issues play some part in all of that, but her later posts read less as posts based off of quick reads and more posts that are just poor in general. Kratos’s main contribution towards the end of D1 was his whole “these draft numbers don’t add up, somebody’s lying” argument. Which is an easy point for scum to make, as pointing out things like that allows someone to contribute to the game without actually scumhunting. His posts at the very end of D1 are especially confusing. I don’t see a reason for scum to post something like that after the threat of a turbolynch has already passed, except maybe to throw off suspicion, in which case it actually makes a lot of sense. I really disliked the tone of his last posts: it reads like a last-minute defense, but he should have been able to tell he wasn’t in danger. It’s very scummy to me. Mello is currently a strong townread for many players because of how he reacted to his claim and then to Crowler’s claim. The reactions are good, yes, but is the rest of his content? His late D1 content was very insubstantial other than those two things. It almost feels like after everybody started townreading him, he loosened up and stopped trying to post good content. Like, literally. Read back and you’ll see where he promised he’d post some thoughts in an hour or so. Two hours later, he shows up only to post a correction on some of Kratos’ numbers logic. Then he disappears for the rest of the day. Could be circumstance, but nonetheless, he missed some key conversations at a key moment and never explained why. Mello did some things yesterday that cast doubt on his being scum, but that shouldn’t let him off the hook for all of the scummy things that haven’t changed about his play. I’m very interested in hearing some reads from the above 3 players. I would lynch on any of those slots should they be unable to convince me of their non-scumminess. I’m on the fence about Faye, Lapis, and Omar, I want to hear more from these slots before casting any firm judgements. Everybody else is probably town, maybe with Toshio and Titania being a little bit more suspicious than the others.

Hey. Sorry I couldn't post sooner, I wanted to post more last night but I had something come up. I should also go ahead and tell you all that I'll be gone from here to phase end. Better amek this post count! He's still mostly defensive, but his defenses aren't terrible and there are people with scummier content. I was never very serious about my Kratos read. I believe I made that clear when I first voted him? Could you please clarify your question? I'm uncertain what you are asking about. Sorry if it looks like I'm active lurking, but I just don't have as much time for this game as I thought I would. I don't have a lot of good reads because I don't have the time to do a whole lot of deep re-reading. I usually need about 3-4 hours a day to play a good mafia game. Right now I only have about half of that. I was still writing my post on how I changed opinions on Kratos when I was questioned about being there. That's why I posted an "I'm working on a post" post, so that people would know that I wasn't writing just in response to that post. Here's my opinion on all of the players: Mello: His latest posts aren't making me feel any more comfortable about him. As has been pointed out already, his posts are fluffy and his votes are cheap, and his reasoning for everything is pretty weak so far. There are people here way better at picking apart arguments than I am who have already made these observations. However, while this slot is the most suspicious to me at the moment, I can still see how some of his actions could be coming from lazy/busy town. Rick: Pretty consistent poster with good reads. Strong townread. The Batter: I've decided that my previous opinions on him are baseless at this point. He hasn't been the biggest contributor, but nothing he's done feels scummy to me either. Titania: I never felt like the case against her was very strong, but I'm not beyond the idea that she could be scum. Still, her posts have good content, even if they are a little scummy at times. Kokichi: Pretty consistent poster with good reads. Strong townread. Nagito: Pretty consistent poster with good reads. Strong townread. Lapis: Dunno what to make of this one, their first posts seemed decent but some of their later content is... weird. Waiting for them to post more before forming a solid opinion. Endeavor: Her posts aren't that great IMO. Nothing reads as clearly scummy, though, and they seem like an easy target. Bad timing/time constraints have gotten a lot of townies lynched D1, I'm worried that might be the case here, regardless of her weak posts. Dr. Crowler: I'm pretty suspicious of this one as well, as his posts have a little too much conviction to use such weak logic. Like Mello though, I can still see how some of his actions could be coming from lazy/busy town. Faye: One-post wonder. She could be scum? If she is, she certainly isn't trying to win the game. If we're going to hunt scum, we should hunt for scum that's capable of operating effectively. Faye has not posted enough for me to have an opinion on her. If she is scum though, she's still pretty harmless. I'd lynch her if she couldn't come up with a good reason for being gone. It isn't that long before BBM starts warning her, though. Omar: Something about his posts reads as weak to me. Likely he's in my same position and doesn't have time to make good posts, but he isn't making himself incredibly useful. Toshio: His latest content is reading as null. He seemed like town at the beginning, but I feel like his content has gotten poorer lately. Nothing really original. I really am sorry I can't contribute more. I have to leave now. Good luck!

I have to agree with Kratos on this one. Lynching for inactivity is lazy and scummy in many ways, at least IMO. It's circumstance vs. content: it takes effort to point out what's wrong with a player's posts. It doesn't take effort to point out that a player isn't posting or is posting irregularly. It's in the mafia's best interest to get people lynched over circumstances. But we have a better chance at lynching scum if we focus more on content.

I'm not reading Kratos as strongly ATM. He's still too defensive for my liking (all of his strong cases are on folks who are currently casing him), but I feel like there are better suspects at the moment. I do have a question though: @Mercenary Kratos What is it about Mello's vote on you in particular that you dislike? Is it just that he was sheeping a case you disagree with, or is there more to it? That said, I personally am finding Mello's sheeping of the Kratos wagon very shaky. @Mello Explain your Kratos vote. Is it still there for the reasons it was originally put there for? For now, I think I'll have more impact here: ##Unvote ##Vote: Mello I'm getting really strong scumvibes from this slot, but as I'm late to the party, much of my reasoning has already been stated ahead of time by others. Same thing for Crawler, BTW. I'll put some more pressure on him depending on how he answers the questions that have already been fronted to him.

Hold on a moment. I've got a post discussing that coming.

Mr. Dr: Your vote on me is exactly the kind of read I don't like making ED1. It's circumstance-based instead of content-based. Not being able to make good cases ED1 is to be expected, it should not be surprising that I do not have one. While I have opinions on almost everybody at this point, I don't really see the point in posting them because I haven't observed anything multiple others have not already pointed out. I can find scum later in the game, but without flips, there's nothing I'm very sure of, and I don't like stating absolutes when there are no absolutes to be found. I'm keeping my vote on Kratos, but I'm not completely sold on the Toshio logic. @Mello and Rick (sorry I can't seem to get the pinger to work): What is it about his case you find to be strong? I'm slightly worried about all of this RP. I feel like scum could probably post something fishy, and then double back and say it was just role play. Plus it's just plain confusing. I know Death Note, but... nothing else here. I have to work now, but I'll have time to post later today.

I still have no good reads. ED1 sucks. The Batter seems a little off-kilter to me, but that's probably just RP (I have no idea what OFF is). For some reason, his first few cases seemed a little heavy-handed, but maybe I'm just taking him too seriously. @Batter: can you elaborate on why you switched from Titania? You are still suspicious of her, correct? I don't know where the Mello wagon is coming from. Granted, a few lackluster reads and actions are notable, but IMO, that's to be expected this early. @Kratos: what's your opinion of the Mello wagon at this point? Do you agree with any of the underlying reasoning? I've got work early tomorrow, so I need to call it quits for the night. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute more tomorrow. I'd like to do a lot more reading.

Apparently someone called "Brexit" used this account last.

Dang it, couldn't you have all picked anti-heroes I'm familiar with? I hate forming reads ED1. There's so much fussing about nothing and nobody ever finds actual scum. So please don't take this seriously, I'm terrible at forming assumptions based off of the minimal material out there so far. ##Vote: Mercenary Kratos Nothing much to base this on except your attitude. After a quick readthrough, you stand out to me as being too defensive, especially over the past hour or so. I want to see you firm up your cases on others without relying so much on how they have interacted with you in particular.

How are there already 5 pages? I'm not that late, am I?

##Vote:Tetsuo

Sorry to hear that Sharp but please don't be too long. I don't doubt that you're being truthful about stuff happening but I am a ruthlessly unforgiving person in these circumstances. Best of luck in your hardship.

zzzzz can we not let scum lose us the game like this holy shit. Not that fly is exactly confirmed town but we're not lynching a hyper inactive in first mylo just because "this game is so tiresome ugh". His "claim" makes total sense as well from a scum PoV as he was clearly pushing the roles as incompatible, encouraging us to lynch one, effectively helping seal the victory. If you thought these roles were so incompatible why didn't you say anything yesterday when we had no one to lynch?

##Unvote For mylo. Should've shot Hiiro, their stuff on Best girl is bad but I'll let them address it for the most part. tl;dr is that accusing someone of tunnelling you is lame because a) it's basically guilt tripping them into backing off. Very manipulative. b) rather than attacking the logic for tunnelling it just throws shade on the attacker, as if that means anything. I hope you guys like how tl;dr that was. =D I reread Upbeat because I'm not sure how I feel about their claim now that cutie flipped with a better role. Is there even a roleblocker running around? I can't recall a single roleblocked claim. His attitude seems just too relaxed. He didn't mind lynching Bolt even though he was a town read and he was scumreading Cutiefly all game. Look at these posts, back to back: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=64749&p=4457032 http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=64749&p=4457038 It just doesn't read consistent at all. I get that to him lynching Bolt isn't lynching a 99% townie but it just feels like for someone who was cautious to lynch people he thought were town he said he'd let Bolt drop real quick, despite not voting for him and actually pushing what he said he was happy to do. If he would have preferred to lynch Cutie that's fine but at least say it. This isn't helped by the realisation that Sharp has dropped off the face of the planet. Santa has also disappeared and Camilla was the only one really pushing him. Hiiro/Santa/Upbeat/Sharp scumteam imo.