Lord Raven

I'm playing the game now for the sake of enemy stats, so I'm abusing the hell out of the arena. I'm arguing it also based upon what I've seen. Clearly, Gold was never an issue for me. I'm arguing her above people who really can't do much later on in the game, whereas Chiki can do at least somewhat well. Well enough for the bottom of low-mid.

Fail Barbarians? The ones with 18 Defense and 47 HP and like 38 attack? Everyone's suffering or whatever depending on the way you want to view it; there's also the 15/20 Def/Res Dragons with 50 HP. Divine stone helps here pretty well, not like a Dragon Killer but it's still good seeing as she only needs one or two uses per chapter. Hell, the fact that she doesn't do anything special, but in fact does it well enough is enough to go out of low tier. Alan is somewhat useless past C3; same with Warren. As for the Earth Dragon, you can say with a straight face you're having anything fight against that? I'm not even arguing her very high if you've read anything I'm saying.

Mid below Astram, lower-mid etc. There is no mid tier. Kinda like the lower half of lower-mid eh? If you read the original point like I did... then you'd know. You don't blow "a ton of Gold" on Chiki either. especially considering no one even showed me why Gold was so low in this game especially since you're selling a bunch of stat boosters and dragonstones. Alan really isn't doing much better than Marth and the cavaliers and any other offensive unit you've got, especially considering Palla does his job a hell of a lot better in C3 anyway. No, it's not? Helps everyone else do so. The stone may not be free, but the breath is and it conserves item uses to. To the point where you can use Irons against certain enemies as a result.How does it help when you can just wipe the sucker out in one round? Isn't it easier to just... not heal everyone when they attack?And really you're bitching about lack of Funds when live staffs cost 1000 Gold a pop. And you're also saying that a Fire Stone, EVEN A DIVINE STONE, which costs 1000 per use (Silver Card) (2000 for divine stone) that lasts for 6 or 7 turns to prevent said damage in the first place is much more convenient? Especially since the Fire stone lasts during enemy phase and can attack basically anything that attacks it during that time? Really? It sure doesn't hinder her considering most of your units will probably be out of a job by then anyway. Dragons are pretty much beyond C20. They're not the dominating enemies C20 and prior.And then? Normal enemies don't have "balls for hit."

And not Sain?

My bad, lower-mid tier. Read: Lower-mid tier. C14 or 15 (whichever she's first usable on). She two rounds half the things, and one rounds the other half. Keep one fire dragon stone, sell the other fire and divine dragon stone. I'm saying she should be in lower-mid because that's the crowd she's comparable to, not Alan who doesn't grow stats or Warren who sucks in the stats he should be growing. Below Astram? Seems viable. Below Alan? Man, can Alan even two round past chapter 5 or 6? Chiki isn't "always sucking." Seriously, two rounding everything past C14/15 isn't fail especially since she has a 1-2 range on top of it so she essentially helps weaken units WHICH ALSO HELPS because she doesn't take much damage WHICH ALSO HELPS because she's transformed for like 6 or 7 turns or more at a time WHICH ALSO HELPS because your units don't have evade so it's hard to double attack without taking damage anyway. Read my stance again. (posted right in the middle, and you appear to have read the entire rest of the post). Thanks.

Chiki lower than Alan now? At least put her in mid-tier below Astram or something. It won't suck. Same attack, same 1-2 range. I'm saying that's double 27K. Like pretty much everyone below mid tier? Except that she doesn't need any EXP to start 2HKOing things like about half of mid tier needs.The rest doesn't matter. I think I should stop pushing my case beyond where people are going to argue against me. Kashim was below Yubello? I thought Kashim was already above Yubello.

Less than 7.

Can someone seriously point me in the direction of all the Funds you get in the game? I know a bunch of thieves drop random things of Gold and you can probably sell superfluous promotion items/stat boosters. I'm also pretty sure you start with 10K right off the bat. And to get within a reasonable turn limit for a chapter (ie, when only a couple people are needed to go off to kill some enemies/get Marth to the throne) there's always the Arena. But I'm saying that it means you can give at least one Fire stone to Chiki because you've got the Silver Card to not fuck over your Funds, seeing as it effectively doubles your Gold output. 54K (double its value), then you've got another Fire stone just for Chiki that Bantu didn't finish off. Yeah, and that takes away from Kashim. Yeah, that's not my point. It's a factor that Chiki comes in with Fire Stones not needing any EXP, whereas Gordon does. I'm not listing it as a major point, either.

You really need to be a douche?

It shouldn't make much difference should it ?_?

If Silver Card automatically negates the lack of Funds then why does it even matter how much Chiki's taking away? 1.5 levels every chapter. Meaning he can't hit 4 AS until C6 (L12). By then he has 8.1 speed and 9.1 Str (15 Atk). With an Iron Bow he doesn't even kill the Pallies.There are a bunch of knights in C6, they outnumber the mages by a lot. So he's doing... 3-4 damage x2. Most of your chars are sword users, therefore they don't. C7 has Thieves with 5 AS. C8 is hectic, I'm not even going there. And this is when he can start doubling. You've got Warren to help with C2 Wyverns, and Linde to rape C3 Wyverns. So he's not the only one here doing so. And even then, you could use the levels on a unit that's more useful. It doesn't matter if it's practically a "non-factor" because he could easily give it to others to give them a boost and they'll also have 1, potential 1-2 range, while he's stuck with low AS with a 2 range weapon. <_<

Apparently "lower mid is crummy"... we may as well rename it "upper low" if it is crummy. But the units in there aren't crummy, at any rate. As for Brom, I have no clue what he's doing below Neph. At least, an entire tier.

It's not like it's limited to Zihark. You've got Boyd too, who probably likes the boosts better than Titania's. Brom is also pretty durable. And even then, lower mid is not bad at all.

First off, fucking school. I'm not reading through all this shit. Second off, I can't believe people are replying to Ayanami. Third, why the hell are people suddenly jumping the gun that I want her above low tier or something? All I care about is her > Ryan or something, not her > half the cast. And has anyone even calculated the numbers for the amount of money you get? Including stat boosters sold apparently, seeing as selling one nets you like five silver weapons or a shitload of irons and steels. And which mage am I arguing her above? I don't think I am arguing her above or anywhere near a Mage.Which chars with armorslayers am I arguing her above? Samuto it seems, as well as Samson/Astoria. If you don't visit her room, no 18K for you. If people only need cheap iron bows, then why shit on the lack of Funds when you're not buying funds costly weapons in the first place? Warren does the second one too, and he doesn't have one move per turn in the forest.He also has the same base strength and speed Luke with Iron Lance and Cecil with Slim Lance, or any cavs dismounted, can double them. He can weaken them, but he can't kill them for shit. Besides, Alan also weakens them, and does a hell of a better job at it considering he takes 3-4 damage from them, each. Which he has no ability to do. Dismounted people can double attack early, can't kill in one round.Of course, they also have the ability to attack at enemy phase and maintain the durability to keep doing so. Gordon can't do the former, and his HP is a tad too low for the latter. In fact, Linde in C3 does a better job at killing things than Gordon does, and weakening stuff on top of that (unless she uses Aura, where she does downright kill them). Mages can weaken Mages better. Your regular chars can one round mages. Gordon can't even do that until L13 when he has 4 AS from an Iron Bow. An Iron Bow. Gordon isn't necessary. Chiki isn't necessary. Which is why both are in Low tier. Don't exaggerate my point beyond what it is. Afterwards, they both have equal ability to two round. One, however, has 1-2 range and much more durability; the other does not. I'm going to go out on a whim and say that most of the unpromoted people will end up using 18K total anyway considering promotion items + weapons along the way.Gordon will be costing around 18K as well. Especially because he can't double for another 8 levels considering his AS base is 2 and his growth is 30%. And even then, there's the factoid that he costs EXP to get up to basically tying Chiki in offense numbers. Chiki can do 1-2 range, one-hit half the enemies and two round the other enemies, etc better than Gordon for around the same cost as Gordon himself, with a fire stone. ... if you sell all your stat boosting items, then surely you'd have enough to use a dragonstone for one character that I'm not even arguing above low tier?

I like to consider the weapon knights in FE9 as apart of the entire Social Knights thing myself, though.

Raven, and/or Lord Raven and there was a brief period where I was "Ike." If you used to come on IRC back in the day, I was either going by Raven or leonidas.

Fire Stone is half that much. He's usable, not good. No, the funds used on him are also used on the rest of the entire team. Everyone falls under the same opportunity cost. And? So does Gordon. Yet I don't see anyone giving him shit about that, especially since you can easily sell 9000 gold with a fire stone. So does the Fire Stone and the Divine Stone, with one leftover. That's easily 27K Gold. Except the Fire Stone will exist? You don't recruit Chiki, genius. She automatically joins you. So do your mages and George/Kashim? 1-2 range, good defense, good HP. Apparently Gordon doesn't have 1-2 range, apparently all your Javelin users don't negate defense when doing damage. Oh wait... she's basically guaranteed 2 rounds on every single attack she performs. And she's guaranteed to damage everything. Gordon can't do shit on enemy phase, and he can only attack once a turn. Anything Chiki can do > Gordon's early game? So can George, Mages, and Kashim? Just like how Chiki can make a good General killer? There are like 8 armored units in the very chapter she arrives in.

Fact of the matter is, they both require opportunity costs. However, if you give one fire stone to Chiki you're probably hurting the team as much as any low tier unit/team is doing anyway seeing as it takes away 9 silver weapons. We're arguing low tiers however, and Fire stone Chiki pretty much does better than Iron Bow Gordon, and if not then Silver Bow Gordon doesn't have the luxury if 1-2 range that Chiki does with the Fire breath. Neither do outstanding with their own weapons. And using them is at the cost of others. I guess I was being a bit hypocritical with the Silver Bow vs Fire stone argument, but still, read above.

But giving him Silver takes it away from Kashim and takes away Silvers from others, so Gordon's competing for it against too many other people... all of which are mounted (Kashim) or Melee units (... everybody?). Who is Chiki competing against? Bantu. Ha. Ha ha ha. Sell one Fire gem, you've got 9 silver weapons. Sell one divine gem, you've got 18. I will reiterate that I'm arguing the Fire Gem and not the Divine Gem. And you're actually thinking of Flying dragons. rofl This is a point for him, considering they do make up most of the dragons in the game.

One Fire Stone, I'm not even saying Divine Stone is the best way out. 15 Str/10 Def/30 HP are actually his 20/6 or 7 stats. Also, Iron Bow Gordon (if you're going to emphasize the lack of Funds in this game) only beats three bishops over Chiki. Chiki beats 7 Generals and the boss sooner than he does. Everything else is equal, except that Gordon doesn't have 1-2 range ^_~ I was talking to FE3 Player about this elsewhere, Chiki > Ryan is guaranteed but not quite Gordon.

With all of 10 power they've got and the fact that they only pierce defense, lol.Also, Gordon/Ryan (the guys I'm arguing them above) definitely can't use those. Cool. Read down, she one shots like half the map. <_< 1-2 range, better defense to the point is just barely better than Gordon? Which galaxy do you live in? Her attack is greater than Gordon has attack, as well. Half the enemies have 26 or less HP in C15. "Can't kill"? Not quite considering it's not the only thing you can sell especially since Fire stones are like half price too so you can stick to selling divine stones. Yeah with all of 15 Str/10 Def/30 HP he has at this point, as well as no efficient way to counter Melee. <_<

Doesn't Chiki dish out like 26 damage off a single breath? Her dragonstones probably last like 6 or 7 turns as well. And she has like 34 HP/14 Def/10 Res in the process, so her durability is decent, also taking into considering that only like 10% of all enemies in the chapter she arrives in have more than 18 attack, with Mages have 8/11 Atk (and she has 1-2 range!) Also, half the enemies have less than 26 HP and the reinforcements themselves have 26 HP. She isn't a total combat failure nor is she a total durability failure. And even with Fire stones she has much more defense and HP for essentially the same damage output and cheaper cost. She's not as bad as any of you are making out. Definitely more useful than Gordon (and Ricardo being more useful than her). Also, what puts two slots of difference between Gordon and Ryan? As far as I'm aware, it's archer with poor bases > cavalier with decent enough bases > archer with poor bases. They're practically the same char only one has like 2 less stats in everything, yet there's someone who has probably more use than Gordon due to his base defense/atk right between them.

Internet Relay Chat.

These are some rough things I can say off the top of my head... may or may not change tomorrow. Luke > Cecil > Cain = Rody (ie, the latter two is up for dispute) Merric should move down a tier if only because of availability. Top of mid really is fine. Astram is listed twice. I would push him down, but not an entire two tiers because of early Miracle Sword. Ricardo is probably more useful than Ryan or Gordon in an efficient run. Abel > Shiida due to Str issues I suppose. Anyone who wants to question, leave a reply and I'll get back to it tomorrow.

We should establish that Elren < Yubello in the process.