Randa

The point of the new system is to show how much impact these irrational people have, while also giving the real rating. Basically I keep track of all scores without a bias average those and then do the same with bias so you would get two ratings per character. I feel like it shows the general opinion of the character in the form of bias and also shows the usability in the actual rating.

Thank you that is something that I feel would work. Have people state when bias is applied and then create two separate lists. If no objections arise the poll will be ignored and the bias system will exist. Quick thing before I go away for the night. 1. If there is no valid/rational argument as to why the new bias system should not be applied OR if the number of votes against does not exceed twice the number for then the new bias system shall be applied. 2. The ratings will start tommorow at 0600 EST unless I receive a request to give time for a more in depth study of the characters.

The main point that people seem to be making is that the bias system ATM hurts the entire idea of the system more than it helps I am willing to listen to ideas on how to fix it. If you want it to stay please bring out a way to make it better.

However the way I'm interpreting the rework is that at the moment it should be removed but has the potential to come back. However nobody has said how to fix it so I am considering them to be votes against. At the moment.

At this point it looks like the bias system will be out the window. I'll be on for about 30 minutes then I won't be able to answer questions or discuss this, so ask now or till tommorow hold your peace.

On the bias system it will be decided by the poll. And would the one person who voted for a new system please submit your idea. Just as a quick note I will be offline for the next four hours. While I'm gone please discuss any potential changes and I will or will not act on them depending on the consensus.

So right now it looks like both will be accounted for in the ratings and I will change the OP to replicate that.

So the only change in the system is a required explanation. Correct?

The reason behind limiting the character is that the goal isn't to have everyone write a paragraph every time because not everyone has the time to do so. But I still need to make sure that the people aren't rating purely on bias.

I believe that I have a compromise between those who want the bias system gone and those who want it to stay, but I still would like other people's opinion.

I got nothing. It's hard to play devils advocate. Either way I can't of a valid argument here. Your win.

It would break the game.

At this point I will remove it from the rules, but I would like to here suggestions on ways to improve it in anyway possible. It's one of those things that can help but it does need to be fixed.

In that instance I would request an elaboration on why and then based on that have them give a reasonable score and then they can add a point bias. If they do not cooperate then their would be ignored for that round.

I believe the original point is to give or remove points based on criteria that aren't listed and shouldn't have a major impact.

Thank you for reminding me it will be played on hard mode because lunatic can be a bit restricting.

That was never my intention. The only reason for a ban would be if they violated the rules against flaming. Nothing based on your opinion can get you banned just your actions.

I think what I'm gonna do with this is leave the style of play up to the adjucticator and how want to play. Efficiency, LTC, or shiny green numbers is up to you.

I don't believe that the double bonuses have any active contribution towards a characters worth, with the exception of Fredrick. I also don't think should rate a character on how good a parent they are because then units like donnel who have a hard time being an active team member but passes on good skills and a good class set would have inflated ratings making people think that they are a very useful unit throughout the whole game. Again I'm open to suggestion I'll put up a poll and I will see what everyone thinks.On the kids I don't have a solid plan yet. I might rate everyone possible combination. But right now I'm leaning towards polling the best farther.

Yes I am gonna start this tommorow at 600 EST. I understand that a lot of people are opposed to these returning at all and just wish people would forget about them. However I believe that if handled correctly they may be helpful to new players or folks that just want to try new characters and need a basis on where to start. As a side note this will be done in the same fashion as the pokemon threads in that all days will be done in the same thread. The point of a day zero is that from now to 2200 EST I will be discussing potential rules changes and anti-flaming measures with anybody willing to do so. I will still take ideas past 2200 but I will not be able to discuss them with people as I will be offline. The rules written specifically for awakening. 1. Each first generation character shall be rated before any second gen(Lucina included) character. 2. The ratings are on a scale of 0-10 with 0 being the worst and 10 being the best. 3. One plus or minus bias point may be applied to any character. (The total score may not be lower than 0 and may not exceed 10). (on parole please specifically state when bias is applied. I hold the right to remove this rule at anytime.) 4. Rate a character on their merits in combat or utility. Utility is classified as stealing, healing, or dancing. Utility does not include double bonuses, worth as a parent, or anything like them. 5. Do not lower the character's rating based on the abilities of another unit to do the same job. 6. Recruiting other characters is irrelevant to this topic. So Chrom doesn't get extra points for recruiting libra or stuff like that. 7. All characters will be recruited. 8. The ratings will be based off of hard mode. Anti-flame rules: 1. You will be given three strikes throughout the entire RTU about flaming and if you exceed three all your contributions up to that point and beyond it will be ignored. 2. Do not insult another person based on their opinion.(1 strike per occurrence) 3. Do not derail the thread with a useless argument in which you repeatedly make the same point. This not a debate thread. (1 strike per occurrence) 4. Do not try to start a flame war. (If in the opinion of myself or a mod this occurs you will receive 2 strikes.) The above rules will be followed strictly in an attempt to keep this civilized. Requests: 1. If you do not support the idea of this please do not post that it is stupid and that I should go burn in hell. Just don't participate. 2. I would like the mods to each post in this thread wether or not they think this should be locked immediately. If one of the Admins thinks that this shouldn't exist please lock this thread. If 4 of the 7 mods believe it shouldn't happen please lock this thread. 3. If you have an issue or anything please get in contact with me or any of the mods. 4. Please keep this civillized, if I believe it gets out hand I will ask to have it locked. P.S. I am willing to push back the start of this two weeks if people need more time to form a valid opinion. P.P.S. If you have a short reply and somebody ask you to elaborate please do so. Just a courtesy thing. Scores without bias Donnel: 1.78 Virion: 2.62 Ricken: 4 Gregor: 4.38 Maribelle:4.75 Kellam:4.76 Miriel: 5.35 Lisaa : 5.41 Gaius: 5.57 Lon'gu:6.45 Vaike: 7.18 Frederick: 7.23 Chrom: 7.98 Bunny lady(Panne): 8.11 Stahl: 8.2 Sully: 8.28 Sumia: 8.35 Cordelia: 8.63 Male MU:9.88 Female MU:9.9 Scores with bias Donnel: 2.06 Virion: 2.94 Ricken: 4.02 Gregor: 4.74 Kellam:4.97 Mariebelle: 4.99 Miriel: 5.26 Lisaa 5.56 Gaius: 5.80 Lon'gu:6.67 frederick:7.23 Vaike: 7.5 Chrom: 7.91 Demon bunny(Panne): 8.07 Sully: 8.14 Sumia:8.23 Cordelia: 8.43 Stahl 8.43 Male MU:9.53 Female MU:9.8 For active discussion about the ratings and other things that come up please head over here http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=40342

I think she's been in the human world either 15 or 20 years. But she looks about the same age as lyn.

I want a villain to be the main character for once. How awsome would that be. It would give a totally new feel to the game if you're the invading country.

Ok so lets go. The first point to be made is to decide on how many levels sumia will have gained. Yes but she doesn't have the best bases making it hard to get exp early on. The issue with this level is that if you go left you face multiple archers that sumia wants to avoid at all cost. In addition we see multiple armor knights who pose a rather serious threat. I think she should get a level up but it will require some effort. Sumia is not entitled to the Fredrick support though. Vaike appreciates the defense, sully enjoys the attack, and Virion enjoys both. Not to mention donnel basically needs a good double to kill anything and be recruited. Even if she still gets him, there are a couple of archers scattered through out making it difficult to just rush sumia through the level. The best way to get levels would be by killing the thieves which again are better used towards recruiting donnel. All in all one maybe two levels would be all she gets. Nobody is gonna get more than a level on this map. She can gain a large amount of exp here. She can do a number on the mages and can gain two maybe even three levels here. She will be very helpful here. But she probably will only gain one maybe two levels. The issue with this chapter is that she has a lot of iffy hit rates. But a level should be reasonable.So we see a level 8-11 sumia using these numbers depending on how much you favor her. Sumia Level. 8 HP. 23 Str. 9 Mag.5 Skill 16 Spd. 16+2 Lck. 12 Def. 7 Res. 10 Sumia Level. 11 HP. 26 Str. 11 Mag. 6 Skill 18 Spd. 18+2 Lck. 14 Def. 8 Res. 11 Cordelia Level 7 Hp. 25 Str. 9 Mg. 3 Skill 13 Spd. 12+2 Lck 9 Def. 8 Res 8 So as we can see at same level they are very similar. While if sumia is favored she has marginally better stats in everything but skill and speed where she has a large lead. So they're about even. This is actually less relevant then you make it out to be. Supports at this point mostly help with increasing dual attacks which you shouldn't be over reliant on at this point. The second thing it does is adds ten to hit, avoid, crit, and dodge. For the most part stats they should both be pretty good in. However after a short while Cordelia starts to get more from supports because she has two things in her favor. 1). Wider support options for support making it easier to get the higher level bonuses. (Not all of sumias options will always be used, but Cordelia can support every male.) 2). Better options. The only useful combat characters sumia can support are Chrom and Freddy ( Henry comes too little too late) which means they are much easier to raise. The early game is a win for sumia. The mid game is a tie leaning toward Cordelia's better supports. Lets look at the end game. This is dependent on class sets more growths due to doubling and tonics. So sumia gets the knight and cleric branches in addition to the shared horsebird. Cordelia gets merc and dark Mage. The best option for efficient play is to reclass them at 10:15 when they have Galeforce. This is very good for Cordelia because she can get sol which is a great skill and potentially armsthrift depending on amount of effort put in. Sumias best option is to go great knight and nab Luna which is a pretty kickass skill but not quite as great as sol. They both get the option of wasting their time in a magic class to help as dark fliers, however Cordelia has an easier time leveling due to combat experience over watered down staff exp due to high internal level. But the only reason to go to either dark Mage or cleric is to gain weapon rank for their original promotion branch. All in all it would appear that Cordelia is the better unit. Your turn.

Sure.

I can defend Cordelia. But I won't be able to start till 5:00pm est. tomorrow.