Hero of the Fire Emblems
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Posts posted by Hero of the Fire Emblems
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4 hours ago, Cute Chao said:
Thank you :)
Sounds fun ^.^ I don't tend to do much with growths myself - I'm usually more interested in the story/characters than the gameplay, but I'll consider it ^.^
I'm definitely getting the ones that are about characters and their backstories, and certainly the cipher one ^.^
I think Lost Altars sort of counts as Awakening backstory because of Alm's promotion (Conqueror), the ramifications of which to future Valentia being hopefully quite obvious. It also apparently increases stat caps for each unit
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You get the starsphere though which lets you manually change growth rates from Undaunted Heroes.
With the starsphere you can basically do crazy shit like actually salvage Nomah
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4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:
But Tiki is still colored silver/white.
I honestly don't think that the color of the Divine Dragon held any significant sign for their power. I mean, Naga feared Tiki's powers to the point of considering killing her. If this was Tiki as an infant, then that means that her being a silver dragon had no affect on her overall power.
Tiki's always been implied to have power that could rival if not surpass Naga's own. Given by how she took over Naga's spot in Future Past 3 and unlocked all of Falchion's power, its already likely she's already just as strong there.
Tiki and Nowi have the same hue in Awakening last I checked.
Edit: despite this, she inexplicibly does have a silver glow in Heroes. So I'm not sure anymore if we take their Heroes appearances as indicative
Tiki actually did become golden in FE3 Book 2 despite being white in Book 1, which was indicative of her aging, so It seems that that part has been retconned for sure now along with most of FE3.
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3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:
... So Nowi is stronger than Tiki? Nowi's a golden dragon.
Tiki grows in power between FE11/12 and Awakening. By contrast, Naga/Nagi is weakened between FE4 and FE11/12- hence "you've revived even weaker than I have"- and that's probably how Medeus can tell at a glance. That's why Tiki becomes golden in Awakening and why Nagi seems to become white in FE11/12, whereas Naga was golden in FE4 and Tiki was white in 11/12.
Tiki and Nowi are both golden dragons in Awakening, if you notice, so I'd wager Tiki is still definitely stronger than Nowi by a lot since they imply such
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20 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:
That still doesn’t explain why Dragon forms are inconsistent, Divine Dragon Tiki in Awakening looks nothing like the dragon form in the DS Games.
I actually want to point out that it's implied Golden divine dragons (like in Awakening and how Naga appears in FE4) are more powerful Divine dragons whereas white Divine dragons are weaker and/or younger. This specific fact piqued my curiosity a while back when I noticed Nowi and Adult Tiki were golden in Heroes, therefore somewhat confirming that I thought the Divine dragons of Awakening seemed golden, so I dug a little.
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5 hours ago, Florete said:
I don't agree with everything you've said, but I think we've lost focus here. If your issue is that it was "hamfisted and awkward" but you're otherwise okay with it, I have nothing else to say.
I'm okay with the concept, yes, but I disagree that it was a better buisiness practice than Echoes because all three paths are literally on the carts. You're simply paying for an unlock on Conquest or Birthright carts, whereas the Map Packs are actual DLC that is downloaded as fresh content.
Thats why for the purposes of DLC discussion the three paths should be treated as base game (particularly on account of the special edition cartridge) while the Map Packs are actually genuine DLC. There's also the fact that in a few territories (including South Korea) they don't sell Fates in versions; the only option is a single cartridge with all three paths. So it's pretty clear to me that FUNCTIONALLY the paths aren't true DLC like the additional map packs in Awakening, Fates, and Echoes. That's why when we're talking about bad DLC I find it slightly hypocritical to give on-disc DLC (the infamous big one that companies like EA get shit on for) a pass while shitting on something that we've literally had for the past few games with no issues, even with Awakening's monstrously expensive (but worth every penny) DLC.
i have no huge problem with the Fates setup, aside from the lack of availability for the special edition which is another topic, but I have issue with a perceived double standard im observing.
Comparing all of the map packs, Fates's are the cheapest at about $25-$30, Echoes is slightly more expensive at $45, and Awakening's is literally about $60-$65.
Tl;dr the Echoes season pass is just par for the course we've had and that's what people need to realize I think
@Cute Chao the Undaunted Heroes pack lets you assemble the starsphere if you collect all the star shards, which you can give to a unit to increase their growth rates by iirc 30% across the board. Fledgling Warriors gives you absolutely nothing. So yes, Undaunted Heroes does give you something of worth. So it's more like Infinite Regalia and how they gave you Eldigan and the exclusive Silver Card sort of; they might have additional conversations, I haven't checked, so I can't say, but I do know they let you get the starsphere.
Rise of the Deliverance gives you a memory prism key item, Lost Altars unlocks the Conqueror class for Alm (same as Walhart but without a mount), and Cipher Companion units have full voice support and support convos with other units (same as Anna in Fates).
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Game and season pass. Was getting them anyway so I made sure to get the Chrome print
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8 hours ago, NoNameAtAll said:
Have people really forgotten how Marth once essentially told General Lang to fuck off (In a polite way of course)? Kris took over that role which was unacceptable. It's not simply "3 or 4 scenes omg". It's that s/he legitimately removes what Marth once did.
Also why is it that Kris gets to see Sirius without his mask?
This is precisely the debatable scene I'm talking about.
If you want to be specific, the scenes in question are the Lang ordeal (Marth ultimately still says the exact same shit for the exact same reasons, with the exact same tone, and even maybe a bit more sternness in the Japanese version of 12, so that's why it's really debatable) and the Adrah Pass thing; everything else is either a new scene that doesn't directly affect anyone from the original plot due to padding and Marth gets the lion's share of character development compared to most other characters.
I specifically was considering the Lang scene and really Marth still tells Lang to fuck off. Jagen and Kris are turned into the same character in that scene for the function of moving the plot, but Jagen still has most of his lines and still threatens Lang. This is specifically one of the two major nitpicking scenes I had in question that can be argued to hurt the plot. She does not remove what MARTH did in that scene whatsoever; its at the very worst Jagen who gets the shaft in terms of plot function
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7 hours ago, Florete said:
Yeah, no.
I'll admit one thing: the marketing was awkward. But Fates is essentially three games, not one. Just because they were all released together doesn't mean they should all be sold for the price of one (though they were all sold for the price of two).
Fates is treated as a single game by literally everything, Heroes, Cipher, etc. the paths weren't true DLC, they were disc locked. That you can't argue against because the special edition version proves this to be the case. They weren't released separately, they were all on the carts locked by a paywall. You're literally downloading an unlock for the two paths. I wouldn't even mind if the game was a flat $80 for the cart, the splitting it up through paywalls was hamfisted and awkward.
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4 hours ago, Tryhard said:
Firstly, they have a not unsubstantial prologue and gaiden chapters added that solely center around them.
Secondly, the majority of supports in the game are with them, there are few supports between other characters.
The game basically presents My Unit as the secondary protagonist (and honestly, in some respects the primary protagonist) straight from the introduction (where it states "the other protagonist of the War of Heroes", "Marth's confidant and friend", etc). And the worst part is that they still manage to not move past 'a loyal knight who is BFFs with Marth' despite spending a lot of time on them.
For example, Marth was the one to suggest to take Adria Pass in Chapter 17. In FE12, My Unit does, when it makes no real sense why this changed, especially for someone that is apparently ignorant about the world. There is other strange things such as Elice's conversation essentially ripping the piss out of Marth to My Unit.
I really like FE12 but the focus on My Unit in that game is bad.
Firstly, this is why I specified main chapters. The prologue and Gaiden chapters aren't main chapters that were originally in FE3. secondly, the Gaiden chapters do not revolve around the avatar- they revolve around Katarina, who is an entirely separate character, with the arguable exception of the one where Katarina herself is recruited, and the seventh platoon as a whole. The prologue also gives much needed characterization to the 7th Platoon even if it centers around the MU, but the Gaiden chapters are a completely different beast altogether.
Secondly, that's partly due to the Archanean cast not quite being on buddy terms between everyone- I noticed that most people that had connections like Navarre and Feena, Tiki and Bantu, etc had supports when I checked the database; characters like Frost don't have really anyone to talk to. Intsys is even on record, if I recall, saying "We basically added the MU to crank out supports with lone wolves like Ymir".
Elice's mention is actually one of the most critical parts of Marth's character in the entire series.
hes ultimately a character that refuses to show his insecurities and presents a face of professionalism no matter what, and as Tiki says in Awakening, "I suppose it was true that Marth was ruthless and cruel- to himself." This is what I mention being something only barley alluded to by the ending of Star and Savior, where he "refused to shed tears" and presented the face of stability to Altea. He's someone that always believes he can do better but most importantly strives for peace and to see more than enemies standing before him- which is a contrast to his character at the start of FE11, and is a case where they intentionally developed his character between the remakes. FE12 does an absolutely astounding job of doing this with additional dialogue and things like his interplay with Katarina whereas aside from Sheena FE3B2 mostly fell flat on its ass in giving Marth any sort of development in that department. He continued to be mostly an audience surrogate aside from a few scenes which are intact wholly in the remake. Elice's comment is one of the most critical aspects to understanding Marth's character, as is a comment Marth himself makes in the prologue, and Tiki references this in her supports with Lucina in Awakening as does Marth himself as an einherjar.
So basically, Marth is someone that puts aside his own personal wants and feelings and decides to put on a professional face, in spite of his internal emotions, basically putting on the big boy pants while also wanting to avoid casualties altogether if he can help it and create a world of lasting peace.
what parallel world did I wake up in where that = being a wimp? Maybe I'm not explaining things very well here because I'm tired but seriously. Kris has a grand total of 2 interactions where he actually mildly changes things and they're interactions which are far outweighed by all the additional shit they add to Marth's character and the characterization of others- the fact that FE Heroes hasn't been able to really reference any games outside of FE12 for the Archanea casts' dialogue should be pretty telling about how much actual characterization it gave the famous "mutes". Kris did not by any means turn Marth into Chrom like people want to suggest; at the very worst he ruins two interactions in a trade off where Marth gets an additional dozen or so which are unconnected to kris. And one of those interactions is highly contestable.
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15 minutes ago, Tias said:
There is a very simple answer to that.
I don't want to support censorship, the annoying removal of content and change in character personality. So buying the game and finding out, like you suggest would mean that if there was content censored that it would be too late to get my money back and I would have supported something that I don't agree with.
It's that simple.14 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:Here's a question: Did you enjoy Awakening?
You *ARE* aware of the changes in Awakening, yes?
Because really, people up-play "censorship". A lot.
Granted, I have a lot of problems with Fates. But proceeding with that outlook with future FE titles is really... flawed.
Awakening's English script got so much more screwed compared to Fates that it makes the people praising Awakening's localization over Fates seem very very...... early game brigand level. Especially as far as connections to other games are concerned (Hello Naesala the "evil swan king")
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37 minutes ago, Tryhard said:
Several scenes were re-written around sucking My Unit's dick in FE12
Like 3-4 scenes In the main story. And the only character that really got anything lost in translation at worst was Jagen.
kris is probably the best example of an avatar thus far, along with Silent!Robin from Japanese Awakening, because they didn't suck the life out of Marth. Contrary to this, FE12 actually made Marth BETTER WRITTEN than he was in 3B2 and gave him actual character traits and personality. Kris was a nice and mostly irrelevant nobody in Marth's army.
I can see some people arguing this sort of avatar irrelevancy Is a bad thing for new games, but the new games had the consequence of sucking the life out of Chrom and Xander/Ryoma/Azura to at least some extent. FE12 is probably the best main protagonist in an avatar game because he comes out a character with many more layers and much more depth than he was in FE3, same with Alm and Celica in Echoes. Most of this is unfortunately confined to the prologue, Gaiden chapters, and support conversations, but it still is a point that stands.
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19 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:
And where did I ever mention that?
FE12's irritation factor (for me personally) is the fact that an established work was rewritten to fit in a character that doesn't enhance the main story at all.
Granted, Kris provided insight more into the side characters because of supports... but there is an art when reworking a narrative (such as Echoes with Berkut and Fernand).
As for why the concept of putting MUs in remakes makes my blood boil...
Look at FE7. It has Mark. Cool. It's at a good level.
Now, imagine marriage mechanics with Mark.
Imagine what Conquest had with Marx/Xander. He threatened to kill his wife for merely speaking ill of his father. There is such a disconnect between the marriage and narrative. And coding that conditionally is a nightmare so much so that it had to be generic.
Imagine Eliwood, Hector, or Lyn. How many interactions they had with Mark. How much that has to change and be conditionalized for moments of dramatic tension.
Is Mark just going to stand in the background when Eliwood kills Ninian if he had
netorare'd Eliwoodmarried Ninian?I'm not saying Avatar characters are inherently bad.
I'm literally engaged because of a game that has the avatar mechanic.
But they have their place. And that place (in my personal opinion) is nowhere near established FE games.
And like I said.
I agree with you to a large, almost entire, extent.
im advocating AGAINST putting avatars in remakes outside of maybe putting an avatar in 7 WITHOUT giving him proper marriage mechanics in 7 and maybe even without making him a proper unit and just giving the original incarnation of the mechanic more detail.
12 was rewritten to include literally over 30 additional characters- some of which were removed from FE3, some of which were Book 1 exclusive, some of which were NPC only, some of which were BSFE units, and some of which originated in 11- on top of stellar new units like Katarina, whose interplay with Marth enhances the narrative of Marth. It isn't even strictly a rewrite- only a grand total of maybe 4 minor scenes were changed to include Kris- because most of where he's arguably important is in the prologue and Gaiden chapters, which weren't in Book 2 to begin with.
Im not even suggesting Kris was a good idea because Katarina could fulfill the role easily and she's a fully developed character rather than a half developed avatar mouthpiece like Chrom and maybe Azura were- Nor am I saying avatars should be pasted onto Jugdral or Binding Blade.
Im just trying to express I think the level which other people (NOT specifically you, but other people who bring the subject up on this site, Reddit, etc) act like the avatar completely details the plot is both humorous, objectively only true for additional content and thus not derailing the ORIGINAL plot, and irritating because it causes people to act like 3 has a much better character arc for Marth while completely not even realizing or acknowledging Marth's added character depth to 12, which was irrespective of Kris pretty much entirely.
i was also always of the opinion that they should not add an avatar to Echoes and had a mild panic when Faye was first spotted before we knew what she was.
FE12 just has a lot more character depth to a lot of people; so much so that Heroes has pretty much nothing to reference aside from things in FE12, and has basically referenced nothing but 12, even with characters like Wrys. Everyone having an aneurism over Kris TO THIS DAY when he really didn't do much of anything aside from provide exposition for side characters who would otherwise be sterotypical Archanean mutes is just silly and that's all my original comment was saying.
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54 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:
So it's "you don't like my opinion, so shut up".
Did you not read other people posts?
"Keep it to yourself". This is a forum.
Man, if you think I'm terrible, go look elsewhere on the internet. I'm a reasonable person when it comes to many subjects on this forum.
This is all about discussion. And my opinion, no matter how harsh, I've backed up with legitimate reasons.
At least two people in the last two pages agree that avatars are terrible and detrimental to Fire Emblem stories.
Objectively speaking as a coder, implementing conditionals for the three lords and how they interact with each other and marriage mechanics will literally force dialogue to be even more generic than it already is.
Have you played Eliwood/Hector's mode with the alternate script? The one without Mark? The story does not change. Mark's presence was literally *IRRELEVANT* as soon as Chapter 10.
They could, in a remake... you know... make Lyn actually be relevant in Eliwood's story too? How are they going to do that if they're going to be busy worshipping an avatar character?
Alm and Celica could not interact the way they could have in Echoes if there were an avatar there. Alm, as a lord, would have to give up spotlight for the MU. If marriage mechanics were there, it would also subject him to literally be netorare'd if your MU chose to marry Celica.
Do you see why people don't like MU when provided with the concept of a remake? *Especially* with titles like FE4 and FE7?
Am I saying FE12 is bad? No. Is FE12 fun? Yes.
Is Kris bearable? Yes.
Kris being there is bearable. But what if he had marriage mechanics like people suggest? Having more power?
Kris's existence retconned Jagen's advisory role. A literal self-insert fantasy. His/her presence and role with the series' icon, Marth.
Their importance apparently being "the forgotten hero of shadow"... their contribution being so worthy of being equal to Marth's heroism.
He isn't relevant if you bench him for your playthrough. But canonically, they are *very* relevant.
Kris is an example of "this is what will happen at least".
He isn't even strictly relevant canonically either.
Malleduses usually aren't that important, Kris barely if EVER does anything without Jagen aside from maybe one instance in the main chapters, and his canonical contributions are the only thing I'm counting- whether he gets benched or not is ambiguous canon/player choice. He's forgotten, in all honesty even in the context of 12 in a vaccume his contributions aren't equal to Marth's- modesty to a fault is just part of Marth's character and that's demonstrated by the ending where he tries to say his friggin nobody tactician was da real MVP. In the context of even NOT having benched him, Marth did a fuckload more than Kris within the canonical context of FE12- Kris barely did a damn thing, much less anything to compare to killing Medeus- unless you, as player, made him kill Gharnef or something.
Jagen's role is still mostly intact. Jagen still serves an advisory role to Marth in the same manner as 3B2, just with Kris shadowing him. I mean, you can argue that's something, but it's not like Jagen was the real MVP of the story to start with.
Most of the implicit romances s/he can get are people that were lone wolves for the most part- with only a handful of exceptions at best. I agree with the sentiment marriage shouldn't be added to remakes, but even then Kris doesn't really butt in to any established pairings aside from only two possible exceptions off the top of my head, one of which is implied to not really stick by other supports and the other of which wasn't part of a CONFIRMED pairing (Catria and Norne, respectively). It definitely could have been worse than it is- but it's not. They could hypothetically make it worse in a future remake- which let me remind you, I AM NOT OF THE POSITION TO ADVOCATE AVATARS IN REMAKES- but FE12 was not that remake to do so.
It really comes across as yet another demonstration of Marth's arguably crippling sense of humility that is an established part of his character in 11/12. Along with his guilt complex and xenonecrophobia (< I think that's a word? It's basically a fear of your loved ones dying). Even with 12 in a vaccume, and even with me actually using the avatar, the avatar comes across as... definitely not contributing much. It comes across more as developing Marth as a character whose humility is very very up there.
and Kris... really doesn't "take away the spotlight" like people suggest. DEFINITELY not to the extent of Kris ruining the plot entirely like some people want to blow this up to be. Marth is still the central character and Kris is, at best, a major NPC-esque character like Nyna or Caeda. Or maybe Elincia in FE9 could be another good example. None of which are main characters. And all of which contribute a lot more to the story than Kris could even dream of doing.
kris is at best a minor unit who got added to the remake, like the BSFE units, as far as the main plot is concerned outside of the Prologue and arguably- ARGUABLY- the next to last gaiden chapter, both of which are new content. The intro might be in reference to either leading the 7th Platoon and implying they helped shoulder the war, or in reference to recruiting Katarina. Either way there's nothing Kris does as cold hard canon that's HE SAVED THE ENTIRE WORLD HES THE OTHER HERO-KING. There's no equivalency to Marth. Like, at all, unless you as the player make him do so, in which case that's on you. He's just like any other unit who also lived on in Legend and helped shoulder the war.
It just semi-irritates me because the insane amount of character development Marth got in 12 made remake!Marth my favorite lord whereas FE3 Marth is close to insufferable (being a very very blatant audience vehicle unlike the remakes), and FE11 Marth isn't anything too special without the interesting context that 12 gives his character in 11- which at best is only semi-implied in 11 by star and savior, rather than being specifically spotlighted by FE12. But people act like Marth's character was ruined and completely miss the additional dialogue, nuances, and character traits that 12 gave Marth for reasons unknown.
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I have to say the continued salt over Kris when he isn't even fucking relevant, even to Katarina to a large extent, once you bench him is starting to get thrown out of proportion.
no, I'm not saying they handled him well, nor that they handled him poorly. All he was was a random idiot so that Units like Warren can chunk words at him and have support conversations with someone. And he doesn't take away from Marth almost at all, either. Marth is an actual dynamic character in the remakes with an actual storyarc, and contrary to popular belief most of this comes from 12, not 11. Kris has like... 3 scenes counting Gaiden chapters where he does something relevant? And not "save the entire kingdom" relevant, more like "something pointless Jagen did by himself in FE3 but Jagen has a lot more lines being our exposition drone so we'll let him do it with Jagen" and "convince Katarina to come back to the 7th Platoon". That's the extent of his input if you bench him, unlike Robin and Corrin who literally drive the plot.
FE12 is very much Marth's tale and the fact I regularly talk about it's plot without ONCE even coming to a topic where Kris is relevant to the discussion outside of the prologue chapters and debatably Katarina's recruitment should speak volumes.
am I saying bring on the avatars for more remakes?
Outside of maybe Elibe, dear god no. I was worried they'd put an avatar in Echoes and screw up the continuity as it was.
But when people say FE12 is trash and should be ignored on account of the most insignificant and quiet avatar (outside of support conversations) in the entire franchise besides the FE7 tactician, it starts to get a little blown out of proportion. Especially with all the character development and defining traits they added to Marth in 12 that people gloss over in their rabbid focus on the avatar.
FE12 is designed so that if you bench the avatar, once you get past Katarina's recruitment he becomes wholly irrelevant to the main plot. I don't think this is coincidence; it feels very much like trying to make the avatar close to optional like in FE7.
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It's flat out not the same Starsphere. Alm forges it during the events of the Undaunted Heroes pack DLC from star shards. Archanea's Starsphere is still broken over in Archanea. It's pretty clear from that alone that it's no more the same Starsphere than the Parthia and Mercurius (!!!) that Alm forges during Echoes are the same as the ones in Archanea. The card game's Archanea artwork has been retconned- to hell and back again. Jugdral's artwork from the card game is still used, but on the Archanea side of things it's been retconned into a pulp of nonexistence by the remakes and Awakening. The spheres have actual artwork within FE12 itself, Echoes's Starsphere is a completely different sphere forged from star shards that are quite obviously not the ones in Archanea as Gotoh is still looking for them as of FE12. Archanea' Starsphere is green and is implied to have been made alongside the shield. Valentia's is blue and is shown to have been forged from star shards by Alm during the events of Echoes, preventing it from being the currently broken Starsphere of Archanea that Gotoh is picking the pieces of up from around the continent still. Got that? Good. Another key detail is that the ornaments still aren't present in Awakening which might suggest they were never present to start within the current canon.
For your viewing pleasure, here's the FE12 artwork of the five spheres.
not a sprite, but flat out artwork of them. Clockwise, Starsphere, Geosphere, Lightsphere, Lifesphere, and Darksphere. For the purpose of canon, ESPECIALLY when talking about Echoes which has a few things to deliberately tie it to the remakes specifically rather than the original versions, try not to use things that have been changed or removed by the remakes, and go solely by the remake canon- here we can clearly see the spheres with updated artwork, so as it stands the TCG artwork where they have attached ornaments is now Null and Void.
That also flat out state the Naga in Awakening is "the spirit of Naga of Archanea" in what I believe is the Japanese text of the art book you're referring to in question as well. This is why she is identical to Nagi in the Awakening artstyle, and furthermore why Nagi was FE4 Naga in the DS remake style with mild updates.
It does seem to be the case that the Naga tome turns the user into a vessal for Naga, same as Forseti and Loptyr.
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On 5/4/2017 at 7:32 PM, Florete said:
You sure about that? Some of it is pretty simple and is being released really quickly. I know not all day-one DLC is "cut from the game" necessarily, but this looks really sketchy.
For an even lower price, Fates offered two more full campaigns. I got all the DLC for Awakening and Fates, but I'll probably skip this time. I feel like they're pushing too far this time and I don't want to tell them that this is okay.
I have to contest this
fates's "two more full campaigns" are actual, legit examples of cut content they shoved out for a paywall. The Special Edition version which has all three but neither of the map packs proves this, and they aren't legitiment DLC like the map packs are. They're base game content that you're paying extra for- which I wouldn't mind as much if they made the all in 1 cartridge available normally, and gave you the option to buy the game partially if you chose, but they force you to buy a third of the game and fork over eShop credit unless you got one of the 3 copies of the special edition. The paths aren't true DLC, they're on disc paywall.
Thats not to say the map packs aren't true DLC, which they are, but Fates pulled something a lot scummier than Echoes at the end of the day because at the very least the dataminers haven't found any of the overclasses etc. on the cartridges of Echoes.
Factoring in 3D dungeons and voice acting this is actually a hell of a lot cheaper than Awakening's DLC (which was SIXTY fucking dollars, and even more expensive in canada after it got a price hike in 2016 for that region) and only marginally more expensive than Fates map pack 1+2, for about the same amount of content as the Fates map packs.
i think the reason this is getting so blown out of proportion and people are conveniently forgetting the price tag of the last two DLCs is because Nintendo had to be braindead enough to call it a season pass- it's not. I repeat, it's only as much a season pass as the map packs and Awakening bundles were, because it works in literally the EXACT same manner as the map packs- it's a season pass in name only, and that's a very very bad and stupid marketing decision to change the name like that.
I am neither defending nor criticizing this DLC; I'm just really tired of people acting like this is so much worse than Awakening and Fates when, accounting for 3D dungeons and Voiceovers, it's just about the same shit for the same price. Buying this game and all it's DLC comes out to about the same price as Awakening and all of its DLC, and the same price as the fucking BASE GAME (all three paths, which were paywall content) of Fates; DLC (Map Packs, true DLC) on top of Fates brought the total to about $120.
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11 hours ago, JamesBCrazy said:
In this case, we have two official descriptions for the same sword, but they are not mutually exclusive and not its actual name. It's certainly feasible that two different adjectives can be used to describe the same item.
That was sort of my thought; I was thinking one specific instance (or maybe two or three at most) of someone uttering "the Divine Blade Falchion" in the main story could be made "the Exalted Falchion" on account of Echoes and Awakening specifically due to this non mutual exclusitivity, while keeping the other instances of Divine Sword Falchion intact. It's the same Japanese name as mentioned, but Awakening strongly insinuates that the Awakening ritual returns it to the power it had in Marth's era in the Japanese version- hence the name they gave it in the Japanese version. 8-4 had to screw that really really vital but of lore up, but a passing mention could completely fix this without coming across as heavy handed and overwriting ALL instances of its epithet.
It actually IS a bit of lore that's integral and falls under the "mistranslation" category just like Naga's gender, also likewise being canonized by Echoes at least in part, and thankfully has a fix that's not too difficult.
edit: I actually seem to have caught onto something! In the event recap for FE11, the cutscene for Jiol panicking is called "Gra's Sun Sets" as pointed out to me by a friend. I thought that was way too suspiciously named and had him check the Japanese name- which ended up being グラの落日
aka, the exact same as the chapter in New Mystery
So we actually have a 100% official localized title for Chapter 17: "Gra's Sun Sets", as seen in the Event Recap of FE11. Blink and you'll miss it but it's there. @joesteve1914 this should probably also be added to the list so far
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3 hours ago, Sentinel07 said:
To be fully honest, if Intelligent Systems wants to continue with Avatars, I think they seriously need to take a look at how Atlus has handled their characters and make them silent.
Let's be real, calling Robin and Corrin avatars is misleading in a way. The player has little to no input over the characters other than their appearance. If there's one thing I've come to appreciate since playing Atlus' games, it's that there's value in a silent character, as it allows the player to pretty much take control of the character's growth without it overshadowing other characters.
Actually....
Awakening DID have a silent protagonist option as one of the voice options in the Japanese version. the dialogue changed so that Chrom acted like Proxi does in Hyrule Warriors- this gave Chrom a lot more characterization and made the avatar more a true avatar
i have no fucking idea how support convos worked out but the option sounds enticing enough that it should have at least been a paid DLC option (as far as I know 8-4 was too fucking lazy to actually localize the silent option dialogue, just like they're too lazy to do lore check on games like Tellius and we get things like Naesala the Evil Swan king). Japanese Fates had no such option but Awakening did.
so Intsys actually did exactly what you're suggesting and complaints about avatar fuckups might be better directed to 8-4, the localization team....
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2 hours ago, VincentASM said:
You know what else is ridiculous? Est is captured in every game she appears in, even Awakening where she's a DLC character. I guess Heroes is the one exception, but you could say she's being held hostage behind a paywall XD
Anyway, um, I guess I'll keep quiet until more Echoes names are dropped. Not sure what else there could be though. The Angel Ring mentioned in one of Minerva's base conversations maybe? Oh yeah, also the name of the star shards in the Astral Temple DLC.
There's Marth's Falchion being Exalted Falchion but it was translated first as Divine Blade Falchion in FE11; so I'm not sure how we should approach this (it's the exact same name in Japanese and 8-4 just so happened to fuck it up for the sake of an exalt pun in Awakening). I think our two options are to use both interchangeably and make the continuity wholly intact or to go with one or the other entirely.
Awakening's Japanese implication is that Exalted Falchion is the exact same level of power it had in 11/12, so that's probably why they used Exalted Falchion for Echoes.
@Lord Tullus yes, a lot of the ending titles and ending texts changed in FE12. Gordin went from "The Ungagged" to his original untranslated title as one example, but the titles Scarlet Sword for Navarre and Red Dragoon for Minerva aren't ending titles. They're epithets that those characters are called that they never got called in FE11; Navarre is widely feared as the legendary "Scarlet Sword" and Minerva is known as the respected "Red Dragoon" of Macedon; BOTH of their epithets are CHAPTER TITLES; specifically the chapter in the main story where Navarre joins iirc is called Scarlet Sword, and BS Fire Emblem Chapter 2 is titled Red Dragoon
the purpose of this patch is not to retranslate anything that was already translated in FE11 and the only thing on the table is maybe Exalted Falchion but it's the same name in Japanese (Divine Blade Falchion) translated differently in Awakening by 8-4 for shits and giggles, and it ruins a major connection to FE11/12 in localization that Fire Emblem Echoes somewhat tried to restore; that's literally the only thing we're questioning here because everything else is official names for characters and locations we got out of Awakening, TMS#FE, Heroes, and Echoes, all of which have some stuff from FE12 that was never translated by FE11.
Basically everything is just plugging in official names for things that haven't been translated yet
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38 minutes ago, VincentASM said:
While there could've been miscommunication involved, I don't think they could've screwed up the timelines that badly.
You've clearly never seen the comedy of errors and ignoring established lore that is Hyrule Historia.
that book was outsourced to a third party on the down low though so maybe it's incoherent gibberish because of that.
Might also be localization induced (greetings from the Evil Swan King Naesala) but I'm not quite sure how to go about checking that
probably isn't Marth if the 10,000 year thing holds up, probably him if it does not I'd say
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14 minutes ago, VincentASM said:
Hmm, it's an interesting thought, but unlikely for many reasons. Nevermind the apparent 1000 year discrepancy between Marth's era and the First Exalt's era.
Namely, Echoes Grima is a lot, lot weaker (and smaller) than in Awakening. Something like that couldn't possibly cause the almost apocalypse that was the Schism. Most likely Echoes Grima is the halfway point building up to the Schism Grima.
Also, if anybody could've been the First Exalt, Alm would be a much better fit since his title is literally Exalt in the Japanese version (in the English version, he's Exalted King, which is different but the same idea). He also has a Falchion...
The first exalt's wife is said to have used a Wing Spear by Donnel and have been a Pegasus Knight. That's what makes it pretty possible he's Marth, or at the very least raises some questions about why the first exalt's wife matches Caeda's description to an exact letter. The first exalt's wife pretty much flies in the face of Celica once we compare them- Celica doesn't use a Wing Spear effective against knights, and isn't a Pegasus Knight
Exalt is a localization of "Holy King". Seliph is also known as a Holy King of Jugdral and would probably be localized as Exalted King or something similar as well; Elibe, Magvel, and Tellius lack Holy Kings but so does Archanea- prior to the First Exalt. It's more than possible Marth became known as a Holy King as well as a Hero King down the line- as someone pointed out, he's literally the King of the Holy Kingdom- and fought Grima at some point years after FE12. And additionally he might be the first Archanean to bear the title of Holy King: thus, first Holy King aka First Exalt.
Theres nothing really to prove or disprove that firmly though because they're so fucking vague about the whole ordeal.
However, on that note, it actually seems pretty near impossible for Alm to have been the First Exalt; Chrom and Lucina share a bloodline with Marth which Tiki confirms and Echoes basically confirms Alm and Celica are in fact the ancestors of Walhart (alm's final overclass is literally the Conquerer class, same as Walhart, and promotes from his hero class) The only way this could be worked around is if the two bloodlines were mingled at some point and Chrom + Walhart are relatives of some kind but that seems pretty unlikely.
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3 hours ago, joesteve1914 said:
Yeah, sure. I'll try to get that done by tomorrow.
What do you think on Exalted Falchion since that's what Divine Blade Falchion from FE11 was relocalized as? Do we use both interchangeably to keep the spirit of remaining true to FE11 while also acknowledging Echoes and Awakening or do we go purely with Divine Blade Falchion and lose the connection?
its the exact same name in Japanese, Awakening merely caused confusion and now both Smash Bros and Echoes have relocalized Divine Blade Falchion as Exalted Falchion to keep up with Awakening; the implication in Japanese is that when Chrom performs the Awakening, Falchion is restored to the power it had in Marth's era, and this implication would be lost in English if we kept it as Divine Blade Falchion entirely, but if we go with Exalted Falchion entirely we miss the point of this patch putting FE11 above all else.
Its quite a conundrum and possibly falls under "quality of life" like Legion's speech pattern since Divine Blade Falchion isn't the name of the item, but rather what characters call it in dialogue on a few occasions- depending on how many occasions this is uttered we might be able to start talking about how we should divy it up if we go down that route
for absolute clarity- the Falchion as of Marth's era was relocalized as "Exalted Falchion" despite the Japanese name being the exact same between 11/12/13/14/15, even including Marth's amiibo appearance in Fates- "Divine Blade Falchion" in Japanese- but is localized in 11 as Divine Blade Falchion and from 13 onward as either Exalted Falchion (Awakening and Echoes) or just Falchion (Fates)
We should also probably focus on knocking out character, item, and location names that are hard and fast first like Divine Dragon King Naga with female pronouns and the Anew staff before having a potential debate like this, though
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Ok, the orbs are actually shown in Shadow Dragon in artwork and cg stills as being completely blank Orbs. Assuming the TCG artwork was ever even canon to start with (which is doubtful), it is absolutely retconning the TCG.
I potentially agree with the points on Falchion and the Book of Naga, that seems to be the case is that Naga has much more power due to actually channeling Naga herself
Best Classes for Alm's Party?
in Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia
Posted · Edited by Hero of the Fire Emblems
Something worth pointing out is that the game flat out insinuates canon classes
if you inspect Ram Village, you'll find that Kliff burnt a certain area with a fire spell (Kliff = Mage), sandbags with arrows stuck in them, arrows fired by Tobin (Tobin = Archer), and a fence broken by Gray during Sword Practicing (Gray = Mercenary)
And really to a large degree, they're designed for those classes in the long run. Kliff has the best spell pool, Gray's subpar skill and speed are fixed by the mercenary line, and Tobin's high skill fixing the low hit rates of Archers
Id say Faye's exclusive access to Anew, making her the dancer, when a very common critical criticism of FE11 was no dancers, implies Cleric is at least one of her more canonical options since she seems made to specifically address a perceived issue with 11 from international audiences.
Fuck if I know if anything implies a canon class for Atlas