A small rant after completion

[Armchair General]

On 11/17/2023 at 6:02 PM, Jotari said:

What? Nomah is gay? Obviously despite talking about supports and base conversations I haven't delved into his, where does this come from?

I just assumed that it was just an random meme. It's the first time that I've heard of it.

 

On 11/22/2023 at 12:43 PM, Alef Zero said:

Sure, if you knew that the only other healer save for Silque is available for the last 2 chapters. Or that reclassing does not really exist in this game (reclassing naturally happens so late it's pointless and I've never found the villager fork thats been mentioned a few times.)

I kind of meant it in the way of natural consequences. As in, your army is routinely taking an beating and the one with the bandits in the mountain pass might be one of the few maps that's hard enough to push somebody over the edge.

 

On 11/24/2023 at 5:09 PM, Alef Zero said:

The fact that Jesse is not immediately killed makes no sense - he's a mercenary, so nobody's going to pay for him, and he can try to escape or fight his captors

He's an runaway noble, iirc. But even then, it's more along the lines of them not getting around to give him the usual ultimatum.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 11/16/2023 at 7:29 PM, Shadow Mir said:

More like anyone, to be honest. Mages are the bane of Knights, yes, but here, resistance is low for most units. 

Valbar isn't screwed by Witches because of his low Resistance. He's screwed by Witches because of his low Speed, letting them double him. That's not a problem most of Celica's army faces.

On 11/24/2023 at 8:09 PM, Alef Zero said:

The fact that Jesse is not immediately killed makes no sense - he's a mercenary, so nobody's going to pay for him, and he can try to escape or fight his captors - he's too dangerous to keep as a slave, not worth any money to pay, and cannot be swayed to work for them. The only logical step is to kill him to get rid of dead weight..

Eh, maybe his captors have a thing for hot blonde guys? You never know!

On 11/16/2023 at 2:52 PM, Alef Zero said:

Also Nomah, is he supposed to be a joke character? The "Eleventh hour old (gay) man character"? He's so useless I don't know why he's even in the game.

...Huh? His supports are all about getting back rubs from Celica. He's very much into the younger ladies. And yes, it's very uncomfortable to watch.

On 11/16/2023 at 2:52 PM, Alef Zero said:

also most of chapter 3 without Palla and Catria, because nothing in the game suggests they would return to the harbor - I expected to run into them some time after saving Est. When they joined, they were vastly under-leveled. Ugh.

I made the same mistake on my first playthrough, haha. "Turn Est into the best Pegasus Knight, with this one easy trick!"

On 11/17/2023 at 4:53 PM, Shaky Jones said:

As someone who personally despises this game, I can't bring myself to recommend it,

Ooh, I can!

Genealogy is actually a cleverly-disguised micromanagement simulator. Seriously, there are so many options available to the player, but none of them are "free". You have to choose who to get what resources (EXP, Items, Gold) to, and how. And you have to do it while racing against the (turncount) clock, and dealing with a Pawnbroker who will screw over everyone who isn't a cute blonde thief.

Beyond this, the map you play on is the world map, just cut into pieces. Each chapter feeds directly into the next... with a couple exceptions. And with multiple missions on a single map, you can allocate your units wherever you feel is appropriate. The story is quite strong and impressive for the series standard... through the first half. The second half isn't bad, just very... basic instead.

Also, astonishingly good music for its era, and one of my favorite FE soundtracks to this date.

On 11/24/2023 at 4:00 PM, Shaky Jones said:

Personally, I dont think its healthy to let personal feelings against a fictional character to prevent you from even trying out a rout at least. At least it plays somewhat differently and you get 3 CF only units. Besides, don't you want to know everything so you can hate more effectively?

Broke: Playing CF, because I like Edelgard

Woke: Not playing CF, because I hate Edelgard

Bespoke: Soloing CF with Ferdinand von Aegir because I really hate Edelgard

(This is a joke, pls no Edeldiscourse).

On 11/22/2023 at 3:43 PM, Alef Zero said:

Communities I frequent says otherwise - it's hard to find a thread about pairing that does not involve shipping all of them save those with Alois and Rodrigue. Same goes the for girls, apparently, likes of Ingrid, Annette and Marianne are all closet lesbian.

I genuinely never hear that about Ingrid. She makes her straightness clear in her paralogue with Dorothea. Although, you definitely could've thrown Hilda up here. "A soul for a soul", as it were.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Valbar isn't screwed by Witches because of his low Resistance. He's screwed by Witches because of his low Speed, letting them double him. That's not a problem most of Celica's army faces.

I never said he wasn't. I'm just stating the facts. Also, Sonya herself is pretty fast, with 12 AS on hard mode. Anyone not named Mae, Catria, or Genny is getting mulched, or at the least in very bad shape, if more than one enemy attacks them.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Shadow Mir

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

7 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I never said he wasn't. I'm just stating the facts. Also, Sonya herself is pretty fast, with 12 AS on hard mode. Anyone not named Mae, Catria, or Genny is getting mulched, or at the least in very bad shape, if more than one enemy attacks them.

Of course, enemy Sonya doesn't have Rewarp, so she's unlikely to reach Valbar in the first place. Saber and Kamui won't get doubled, either, if you've gotten them into Myrmidon. But yes, Sonya is a threat. A crit from Excalibur is one-shotting almost everyone in your army. Best way to handle her is probably to have Leon snipe at her from too far away for her to reach. Deen's map is easier, since you can trivialize him, and his Mercenaries, by simply plopping Valbar in their way.

[Shadow Mir]

54 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Of course, enemy Sonya doesn't have Rewarp, so she's unlikely to reach Valbar in the first place. Saber and Kamui won't get doubled, either, if you've gotten them into Myrmidon. But yes, Sonya is a threat. A crit from Excalibur is one-shotting almost everyone in your army. Best way to handle her is probably to have Leon snipe at her from too far away for her to reach. Deen's map is easier, since you can trivialize him, and his Mercenaries, by simply plopping Valbar in their way.

...and that's the problem. Her map is much harder, and not as rewarding for it.

[Jotari]

Neither map is particularly hard. The witches have the theoretical power to wreck you, but they won't actually use it. And if you do happen to get monstrously unlucky, you will have enough turn rewinds to counteract it. And if you're playing without rewinds the maps are short enough to reset with no issues. The most likely real scenario is that the witches will warp erratically, get stuck in the desert, move just into range of your units and then get easily picked off one by one while Sonia strolls up from the south.

If there's anything really deserving of criticism it's that they used the exact same map for both 😕 I can forgive Gaiden for that, but come on SoV, you can be a bit more creative than that. Two adjacent desert areas having the exact same layout is just silly.

[Acacia Sgt]

It's funnier because they did bothered to change the surroundings. Deen's map is by a river/chasm while Sonya's is flanked by cliffs.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It's funnier because they did bothered to change the surroundings. Deen's map is by a river/chasm while Sonya's is flanked by cliffs.

I'd honestly rather they looked more similar but had different terrain than looking dissimilar and having the same terrain. Did they make token efforts like that with the other repeat maps, such as the Zeke-Jerome chapter?

[Acacia Sgt]

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I'd honestly rather they looked more similar but had different terrain than looking dissimilar and having the same terrain. Did they make token efforts like that with the other repeat maps, such as the Zeke-Jerome chapter?

Yes, apparently.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

Don´t worry, SoV deserves every rant coming it´s way.

On 11/16/2023 at 8:52 PM, Alef Zero said:

Mechanically, game does not hold well - too few classes, that feel largely the same, too little mechanics to work with.

What do you mean bro? You have guy with no move and sword, guy with no move and stick, guy with mov and stick, girl with mov and stick but no attack stat, guy with no mov and fuck you range and MaGiC GiRls/gUys but still no mov. Diversity accomplished.

And then you put all that shit on maps with 1 tumbleweed per 2x2 line/column and we have a game on our hands, exciting.

Don forget that class diversity gets enhanced by the entirety of Valencia being made of french people, this being the reason why they can hold either a sword (stale baguette) or bread (fresh baguette) and axes are for the filthy, smelly, cake-eating peasantry.

On 11/16/2023 at 8:52 PM, Alef Zero said:

Witches having unlimited teleportation range is straight terrible design. They can teleport anywhere they like and you can never protect every single unit, you are always at risk of random instakill.

If stupidity were a skill these ladies would have infinite accuracy.

On 11/16/2023 at 8:52 PM, Alef Zero said:

Why are enemies so tanky? Even dumb mages can easily take doubling from physical unit to the face, and survive

Normally u have good units that can kill enemies, but not in SoV. It´s part of the process of Jeigan indoctrination and we trust Kaga the process.

On 11/16/2023 at 8:52 PM, Alef Zero said:

Also Nomah, is he supposed to be a joke character? The "Eleventh hour old (gay) man character"? He's so useless I don't know why he's even in the game.

Early Fire Emblem installs failsafes for idiots children so that they too may see the credits roll, most often in the form of "powerful mage guy who could end the story if he so wished but then we dont have a game to sell so shut the fuck up about story and move those pixels."

On 11/16/2023 at 11:16 PM, Shaky Jones said:

and how much I hate mao design in SoV. 

on god, fr fr

Spoiler

On 11/18/2023 at 11:29 PM, lenticular said:

All our units are replaced with basic stones like in chequers or go, but with numbers stuck on them so we can reference their character sheets. There's no story, no music, only the most minimal graphics. Would you want to play that game? Because I certainly wouldn't.

excuse the edge to this

 

On 11/18/2023 at 11:29 PM, lenticular said:

Abstract Emblem would just have way too many problems to be a game that I'd find compelling. It's massively asymmetric in an uninteresting way. The AI is generally not built to even try to beat the player and a lot of the strategy comes from knowing how to manipulate it into playing terribly. There are a ton of fiddly and over-complicated rules that don't really offer much in the way of strategic or tactical depth, but just serve as little traps that slow down play by making you check for them all just in case. There are dominant strategies that just completely outclass other approaches, with most of the pieces you get being largely irrelevant for any sort of optimised play.

Fire Emblem works, Fire Emblem is fun -- at least for me -- because of the amalgamation of gameplay and story and art and music and everything else all coming together into a single passage that is greater than the sum of its parts. Carefully leveling up the small mage girl and the old man with the amazing beard is massively more satisfying than leveling up generic unit #14 and generic unit #27. Having context turns gameplay weaknesses into strengths. In an abstract strategy game, if option one is strictly better than option two, then I'm taking option one. In Fire Emblem, if unit one is strictly better than unit two except that I like unit two more, then I'm taking unit two and embracing the extra challenge.

So yeah, it would be weird to want to play Fire Embelm exclusively for the story. Just go read a book instead, and you'll probably get a better story. But I find it equally weird to want to play Fire Emblem exclusively for the gameplay. Just go play chess or go instead and you'll get better gameplay. What Fire Emblem offers is to blend the two together.

Imagine having working difficulty options instead of inflation porn sliders, couldn´t be FE.

There´s a tremendous difference between effort and being successful (win screen) in Fire Emblem and chess. And I imagine a large part of FE´s appeal is the potential ease of success.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

Don´t worry, SoV deserves every rant coming it´s way.

What do you mean bro? You have guy with no move and sword, guy with no move and stick, guy with mov and stick, girl with mov and stick but no attack stat, guy with no mov and fuck you range and MaGiC GiRls/gUys but still no mov. Diversity accomplished.

And then you put all that shit on maps with 1 tumbleweed per 2x2 line/column and we have a game on our hands, exciting.

Don forget that class diversity gets enhanced by the entirety of Valencia being made of french people, this being the reason why they can hold either a sword (stale baguette) or bread (fresh baguette) and axes are for the filthy, smelly, cake-eating peasantry.

If stupidity were a skill these ladies would have infinite accuracy.

Normally u have good units that can kill enemies, but not in SoV. It´s part of the process of Jeigan indoctrination and we trust Kaga the process.

Early Fire Emblem installs failsafes for idiots children so that they too may see the credits roll, most often in the form of "powerful mage guy who could end the story if he so wished but then we dont have a game to sell so shut the fuck up about story and move those pixels."

on god, fr fr

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Imagine having working difficulty options instead of inflation porn sliders, couldn´t be FE.

There´s a tremendous difference between effort and being successful (win screen) in Fire Emblem and chess. And I imagine a large part of FE´s appeal is the potential ease of success.

Nomah isn't much of a Gotoh stat wise. And even as a fail safe, he's actually a bit hard to even find as a unit. Especially in Gaiden.

[Etrurian emperor]

On 11/24/2023 at 10:00 PM, Shaky Jones said:

Yeah, I often criticize SoV for being unnecessarily backwards when it comes to "progression" or gender equality or whatever buzzword you want to use. Like, most girls you recruit being imprisoned damsels in distress is a comically outdated trope that very few want to see now, but this is a remake of an old game. Its not their fault that Kaga has several fetishes that should've been left outside of his games

I'm not really sure its a Kaga thing. Binding Blade was done without Kaga and it has the same problem as Gaiden were most female characters you recruit have to be freed from a jail cell first. Doesn't matter if they're a sweet childhood friend, dragon loli, fierce warrior or a legendary witch that makes even Pent geek out. If you're a woman its down to the jailhouse with you. Kaga's Archenean and Jugdral series also divide the ''distress ball'' more evenly with the likes of Corpul, Midyale, Rickard or those bald general twins(they're twins right?) also having been kidnapped. And Gordin if you count the remake. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Etrurian emperor

[Jotari]

31 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I'm not really sure its a Kaga thing. Binding Blade was done without Kaga and it has the same problem as Gaiden were most female characters you recruit have to be freed from a jail cell first. Doesn't matter if they're a sweet childhood friend, dragon loli, fierce warrior or a legendary witch that makes even Pent geek out. If you're a woman its down to the jailhouse with you. Kaga's Archenean and Jugdral series also divide the ''distress ball'' more evenly with the likes of Corpul, Midyale, Rickard or those bald general twins(they're twins right?) also having been kidnapped. And Gordin if you count the remake. 

I've never viewed Binding Blade that way, but it's kind of can't unsee it now. As unlike the previous games, pretty much none of those examples were gameplay justified  (Lillina is the exception).

And no, I don't think Doloh and Macellean are twins. I think they've just made a joke out of reused NES portraits.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 11/29/2023 at 11:28 AM, Shadow Mir said:

...and that's the problem. Her map is much harder, and not as rewarding for it.

I mean, I agree. At the very least, it's weird that Boss Deen drops his Brave Sword, whereas Boss Sonya doesn't drop her Steel Shield. Either both should've dropped their item, or neither should've.

On 11/29/2023 at 5:45 PM, Jotari said:

The witches have the theoretical power to wreck you, but they won't actually use it

Witch AI won't screw you over, except for when it does.

On 11/29/2023 at 5:45 PM, Jotari said:

If there's anything really deserving of criticism it's that they used the exact same map for both 😕 I can forgive Gaiden for that, but come on SoV, you can be a bit more creative than that. Two adjacent desert areas having the exact same layout is just silly.

Huh, I never noticed this. Maybe because your army starts at opposite sides of the map, depending on which one you go with? I find the map reuse more tolerable when they vary it in this sort of way.

20 hours ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

If there's anything really deserving of criticism it's that they used the exact same map for both 😕 I can forgive Gaiden for that, but come on SoV, you can be a bit more creative than that. Two adjacent desert areas having the exact same layout is just silly.

Down to the Countryside with you! Or up to the Mountains, it's your call.

19 hours ago, Jotari said:

Nomah isn't much of a Gotoh stat wise. And even as a fail safe, he's actually a bit hard to even find as a unit. Especially in Gaiden.

Yeah, pretty sure Mycen is the Gotoh, since he's a forced recruit shortly before the Endgame. Even though he's a Paladin, whereas people are excepting a Sage. So, Gaiden is a game with a Jagen who's actually a Gotoh, and a Gotoh who isn't one.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I mean, I agree. At the very least, it's weird that Boss Deen drops his Brave Sword, whereas Boss Sonya doesn't drop her Steel Shield. Either both should've dropped their item, or neither should've.

But then the game wouldn't be discriminating against Deen, and we can't have that!

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Yeah, pretty sure Mycen is the Gotoh, since he's a forced recruit shortly before the Endgame. Even though he's a Paladin, whereas people are excepting a Sage. So, Gaiden is a game with a Jagen who's actually a Gotoh, and a Gotoh who isn't one.

It actually would have made a tonne of sense if Nomah just went with Celica from the start and was her Jeigan. Think about it, a powerful unit who can wipe the floor with enemies, but is limited in how much he can do it by the fact that he is actively damaging himself every time he attacks. It actually could have worked out really well both in gameplay and story.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

On 11/29/2023 at 11:45 PM, Jotari said:

If there's anything really deserving of criticism it's that they used the exact same map for both 😕 I can forgive Gaiden for that, but come on SoV, you can be a bit more creative than that. Two adjacent desert areas having the exact same layout is just silly.

Huh, I never noticed this. Maybe because your army starts at opposite sides of the map, depending on which one you go with? I find the map reuse more tolerable when they vary it in this sort of way.

On 11/30/2023 at 7:46 AM, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

If there's anything really deserving of criticism it's that they used the exact same map for both 😕 I can forgive Gaiden for that, but come on SoV, you can be a bit more creative than that. Two adjacent desert areas having the exact same layout is just silly.

Down to the Countryside with you! Or up to the Mountains, it's your call.

what happen here

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

10 hours ago, Jotari said:

But then the game wouldn't be discriminating against Deen, and we can't have that!

It actually would have made a tonne of sense if Nomah just went with Celica from the start and was her Jeigan. Think about it, a powerful unit who can wipe the floor with enemies, but is limited in how much he can do it by the fact that he is actively damaging himself every time he attacks. It actually could have worked out really well both in gameplay and story.

Getting Nomah at the start would dramatically throw off the balance, though. He's essentially doing what Celica, Mae, and Boey can already do, but a lot better, due to his higher stats and starting spell list. Plus, he adds a second healer to the bunch. And he gives an additional support boost to Celica. Act II is already pretty easy, but it would just turn trivial in this context.

Re: bolded - we already have that, and her name is Mae. Nomah isn't unique in losing HP for casting spells - anything but! And the fact that he brings another Recover to the table mitigates the "spending HP issue" that your starting Mages all struggle with.

8 hours ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

what happen here

I'm referring to the "Up to the Mountains, Down to the Countryside" movement. It was a campaign by Mao to displace rising urban intellectuals into rural settings, so as to "build character" (and eliminate the threat he believed they posed to himself and the Communist Party). Authoritarian nonsense, if you will.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I'm referring to the "Up to the Mountains, Down to the Countryside" movement. It was a campaign by Mao to displace rising urban intellectuals into rural settings, so as to "build character" (and eliminate the threat he believed they posed to himself and the Communist Party). Authoritarian nonsense, if you will.

what i was referring to was you quoting the same sentence twice but the quotes are from different people (me and jotari)

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Getting Nomah at the start would dramatically throw off the balance, though. He's essentially doing what Celica, Mae, and Boey can already do, but a lot better, due to his higher stats and starting spell list. Plus, he adds a second healer to the bunch. And he gives an additional support boost to Celica. Act II is already pretty easy, but it would just turn trivial in this context.

Re: bolded - we already have that, and her name is Mae. Nomah isn't unique in losing HP for casting spells - anything but! And the fact that he brings another Recover to the table mitigates the "spending HP issue" that your starting Mages all struggle with.

I'm referring to the "Up to the Mountains, Down to the Countryside" movement. It was a campaign by Mao to displace rising urban intellectuals into rural settings, so as to "build character" (and eliminate the threat he believed they posed to himself and the Communist Party). Authoritarian nonsense, if you will.

Oh obviously it would have a knock on effect on game balance. I wasn't suggesting merely transporting him as is to the start of the game. I was more just espousing the idea of a magic based Jeigan with the Gaiden spell mechanic, which I think synergizes particularly well.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

4 hours ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

what i was referring to was you quoting the same sentence twice but the quotes are from different people (me and jotari)

Oh, I see it now. That's weird. Maybe a glitch? I definitely had meant to quote your text.

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Oh obviously it would have a knock on effect on game balance. I wasn't suggesting merely transporting him as is to the start of the game. I was more just espousing the idea of a magic based Jeigan with the Gaiden spell mechanic, which I think synergizes particularly well.

Truthfully, I'm not opposed to this sort of Jeigan. I'd wanted a "Bishop Jeigan" for a while, which we kinda sorta got in Fates. In terms of Gaiden/SoV, I think it'd be alright... if they have some kind of Achilles Heel. Like a low Luck stat, or a personal skill where their spells are more accurate, but cost them more HP.Something to make them not "strictly superior" to the other units joining at the same time.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Oh, I see it now. That's weird. Maybe a glitch? I definitely had meant to quote your text.

Truthfully, I'm not opposed to this sort of Jeigan. I'd wanted a "Bishop Jeigan" for a while, which we kinda sorta got in Fates. In terms of Gaiden/SoV, I think it'd be alright... if they have some kind of Achilles Heel. Like a low Luck stat, or a personal skill where their spells are more accurate, but cost them more HP.Something to make them not "strictly superior" to the other units joining at the same time.

Strictly superior to the other units joining at the same time is sort of meant to be Jeigan's deal. It's strictly superior to units joining at a later time where they're meant to have troubles (or be Seth). One way for this would be to give our hypothetical early game Nomah low stats, comparable to Mae and Boey, but immediate access to the games most powerful spells. So he can sling them out at the cost of a lot of HP and do well with them (yet probably not double), but as soon as the other mages learn those spells from levelling up, they will have the distinct advantage over him in stats.

Of course designing Celica's route entirely around the fact that 50% of her roster is composed of Mercenaries and Mages was something of an odd choice to begin with that would leave us in a scenario where an Nomah is overshadowing other mages. Course the original cared little enough about class variation to give you a Jeigan who shares a class with two other stating units and then provide three more cavalry when you're only a few chapters into the game. So what even is class balance?