Which Three Houses Characters got improved the most in Three Hopes?

[Etrurian emperor]

Three Hopes has been out for over a year now so lets talk about how the game handled the Three Houses cast. Which character do you think improved the most when compared to Three Houses? Or alternatively which characters did you think got worse?

Better:

Byleth and Jeralt: Just to start with the low hanging fruit. These two got massively improved. Its telling how shaky the idea of a mute avatar is when they get so much more better when they're allowed to speak. Byleth's emotionless almost doll like behavior is even a bit endearing. Its also telling how shaky the instantly dying dad trope is when we see how much Jeralt is freed by no longer having to carry that trope around with him.

Claude: This is a bit controversial for some reason but Claude actually being a schemer rather than just being told he is a schemer massively improves him. Just as him having a story of his own rather than having to share his story with the church improves him. This is also controversial but I think Claude making an alliance with Edelgard and opposing the church is also much more interesting than him just being a goody two shoes. 

Caspar: He get a fair bit of attention this time around doesn't he? He's often seen around his dad, and I think him serving as his dad's understudy during the Golden Deer route is actually pretty cute. It makes for a nice rookie/veteran dynamic. 

Ignatz: Ignatz ending up as a knight who also paints is an interesting scenario for him. We often see him clearly in denial about him being fine with his situation. Ignatz status as a knight who also paints reinforces his ties to house Gloucester and Lorenz too.

Ferdinant von Aegir: The conflict with his dad gets much more screentime then in the original game and thus Ferdie's plight gets more interesting. 

Its complicated:

Rhea: I can't exactly say she got improved because she's barely in the story. However she's written much more gracefully. In the original game her behavior in Crimson Flower in contrast to the other routes was very jarring. In one route she's Rhea, and in the other route she's not just antagonistic but a complete lunatic. In this game she reacts much more reasonable when declared war on.

Ended up being worse:

Sylvain: In Three Hopes Sylvain is so much nicer than in the main game. But that's a bit of a problem. Sylvain might have been a scumbag but that was one of the more interesting things about him. A womaniser who hates woman and woos them to try and make them suffer was repulsive but also a pretty unique touch. 

Thales: Replacing a pretty iconic and respective antagonist is already a controversial decision but its double so if the villain replacing her just cannot handle the role of main villain. At all. 

Seteth: Almost no supports, very little story prominence and his canonical power seems to have been massively reduced too. 

Alois/Hanaman/Cyril: Poor guys. Just snubbed and thrown to the dirt.

[MeteorPhoenix]

It actually hurts to go back to Three Houses to deal with mute Byleth again, knowing how much better they could be.

[Alef Zero]

I've only played Azure Moon (twice, won't play other routes), so aside from Byleth and Jeralt (these are obvious, like you saide). The only character that was done better was Rodrigue, and only by virtue of not dying. I don't feel like anyone is particularly different, save for Sylvain, who's more boring here, he really lacks anything to do in this story, he no longer changes as the story progresses. There is the case with his brother, but despite being alive and even part of an army for a long while, I feel his presence has less impact on Sylvain than in three houses, where he dies the moment he's introduced. Crazy.

Dimitri's path is somewhat different, but that's not for better or worse, he's story is just different. It's nice he puts greater emphasis on finding the truth, instead of just giving up like in houses, but I miss his edgy phase.

In general, I miss most designs from houses - only some girls like Mercedes and Marianne look better (love girl's long, loose hair. Marianne looks stunning as holy knight). Sylvain looks silly, Ingrid straight up ugly, Felix's outfit looks more regal, but fits terribly on him during combat. I also preferred his previous hair.
Dimitri looks more charming, but much less mature, and I really liked that in houses.

[Shaky Jones]

Improved? Rodrigue. I'd say Dimitri too given that I've never been a fan of "Your hands..." being what makes feral Dimitri go sane again, and the constant struggles of his schizo episodes being much more contained and requiring all his retainers/old friends to keep him on the right path is much more interesting to me than avatar shilling, if you can even call mute Byleth one. Obviously, Byleth in Hopes is better. What were they thinking in Houses?

Worse? 

Raphael

 

Too many people will say that he's always been a quirky gimmick character about food, but to heck with that. I loved Raphael! He was a family guy!

He was a lot more calm and collected in most of his monastery and he really knew how to stay positive and cheer up others when they were down during tough times given his unfortunate past regarding his parents murder that he doesn't let weigh him down, something that really stands out given that 80% of students in this game are in desperate need of therapy. He was a simple man, but I liked that about him. Caspar's the giddy crazy one. Dedue's the loyal serious one. Raphael's the chill happy one, just with the usual Ilyana gimmick of liking food added onto that.

In hopes, they completely doubled down on said trope and made that his ENTIRE PERSONALITY, basically taking what main part people who barely used him in houses remembered about my boy, and just went "Yep! That's Raphael! The food guy! Look! He's eating food! And he's training!". Thanks, now everyone goes "Yep, he's just being himself. What a boring character...". It breaks this bonehead's heart. 

He's unnecessarily excited about everything too, to an annoying degree. Like, he's waaay to into everything, and that becomes more of a flaw than a boon, unlike his positivity in Houses. Like, they just want him to be clueless and hungry. What have they done to my boy?

Justice For Raphael!

And Hanneman. Justice for Hanneman too.

[Saint Rubenio]

Worse:

They made Hanneman unplayable.

...That's it. I will never be able to look at this game as anything more than "that one game that took my favorite character from Fodlan and made him unplayable." Thanks for nothing, Koei.

22 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

Improved? Rodrigue.

He's not just a plot device now!

22 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

Worse? 

Raphael

 

Too many people will say that he's always been a quirky gimmick character about food, but to heck with that. I loved Raphael! He was a family guy!

He was a lot more calm and collected in most of his monastery and he really knew how to stay positive and cheer up others when they were down during tough times given his unfortunate past regarding his parents murder that he doesn't let weigh him down, something that really stands out given that 80% of students in this game are in desperate need of therapy. He was a simple man, but I liked that about him. Caspar's the giddy crazy one. Dedue's the loyal serious one. Raphael's the chill happy one, just with the usual Ilyana gimmick of liking food added onto that.

In hopes, they completely doubled down on said trope and made that his ENTIRE PERSONALITY, basically taking what main part people who barely used him in houses remembered about my boy, and just went "Yep! That's Raphael! The food guy! Look! He's eating food! And he's training!". Thanks, now everyone goes "Yep, he's just being himself. What a boring character...". It breaks this bonehead's heart. 

He's unnecessarily excited about everything too, to an annoying degree. Like, he's waaay to into everything, and that becomes more of a flaw than a boon, unlike his positivity in Houses. Like, they just want him to be clueless and hungry. What have they done to my boy?

Justice For Raphael!

Yes

 

 

 

But, consider: He has a bandana now.

22 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

And Hanneman. Justice for Hanneman too.

Thank you.

[ciphertul]

I just liked that Marianne felt a lot more story important. She often felt like Cluade's number 2 in strategy and planning.

[Etrurian emperor]

14 minutes ago, ciphertul said:

I just liked that Marianne felt a lot more story important. She often felt like Cluade's number 2 in strategy and planning.

She and her dad also have a bit of an arc even if her dad remains off screen. That was sweet.

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Three Hopes has been out for over a year now so lets talk about how the game handled the Three Houses cast. Which character do you think improved the most when compared to Three Houses? Or alternatively which characters did you think got worse?

Better:

Byleth and Jeralt: Just to start with the low hanging fruit. These two got massively improved. Its telling how shaky the idea of a mute avatar is when they get so much more better when they're allowed to speak. Byleth's emotionless almost doll like behavior is even a bit endearing. Its also telling how shaky the instantly dying dad trope is when we see how much Jeralt is freed by no longer having to carry that trope around with him.

Claude: This is a bit controversial for some reason but Claude actually being a schemer rather than just being told he is a schemer massively improves him. Just as him having a story of his own rather than having to share his story with the church improves him. This is also controversial but I think Claude making an alliance with Edelgard and opposing the church is also much more interesting than him just being a goody two shoes. 

Caspar: He get a fair bit of attention this time around doesn't he? He's often seen around his dad, and I think him serving as his dad's understudy during the Golden Deer route is actually pretty cute. It makes for a nice rookie/veteran dynamic. 

Ignatz: Ignatz ending up as a knight who also paints is an interesting scenario for him. We often see him clearly in denial about him being fine with his situation. Ignatz status as a knight who also paints reinforces his ties to house Gloucester and Lorenz too.

Ferdinant von Aegir: The conflict with his dad gets much more screentime then in the original game and thus Ferdie's plight gets more interesting. 

Its complicated:

Rhea: I can't exactly say she got improved because she's barely in the story. However she's written much more gracefully. In the original game her behavior in Crimson Flower in contrast to the other routes was very jarring. In one route she's Rhea, and in the other route she's not just antagonistic but a complete lunatic. In this game she reacts much more reasonable when declared war on.

Ended up being worse:

Sylvain: In Three Hopes Sylvain is so much nicer than in the main game. But that's a bit of a problem. Sylvain might have been a scumbag but that was one of the more interesting things about him. A womaniser who hates woman and woos them to try and make them suffer was repulsive but also a pretty unique touch. 

Thales: Replacing a pretty iconic and respective antagonist is already a controversial decision but its double so if the villain replacing her just cannot handle the role of main villain. At all. 

Seteth: Almost no supports, very little story prominence and his canonical power seems to have been massively reduced too. 

Alois/Hanaman/Cyril: Poor guys. Just snubbed and thrown to the dirt.

I'm super sure we had this extract thread before.

Yeah, we did,

It was even you that made it. Not that bringing up an old topic is bad or anything, I was just getting hit with some major deja vu there.

[Etrurian emperor]

38 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I'm super sure we had this extract thread before.

Yeah, we did,

It was even you that made it. Not that bringing up an old topic is bad or anything, I was just getting hit with some major deja vu there.

Huh. I completely forgot. 

[Sasori]

For some crazy hobo Dimitri was a big draw, but I greatly prefer what they did to him in three hopes. Crazy hobo Dimitri was essentially wrong about everything, so his conflict with Edelgard felt a bit weird and uninteresting. Dimitri could only howl about how she killed his stepmom and Edelgard could just stop the entire conversation by going "uh, no I did't". In three hopes a lot of negative traits of Dimitri are still there, but him also leading his nation and him having his own thoughts about the conflict from step 1 made him a lot more interesting to me.

There's also Felix. His intentions were also clear in the base game, but I felt he often went a bit too much in the 'passive aggresive asshole' territory. In 3 hopes its generally more consistent that him being a complete ass comes from a place of care.

Most of the non students faired a bit more poorly. Manuella for example barely had any supports and even bigger players like Seteth and Flayn did't feel like they had much to do. 

[Dark Holy Elf]

Even though we've done this thread before, I at least have played far more of the game than I had at the time, so my thoughts have changed somewhat.

Better:

• I said this in the previous thread, but I think Petra is improved because her goals and reasons to fight in a Fodlan war are made more explicit; in general the writers seemed more concerned with her position, which I really appreciated.
• Agree that Claude is done better this time; his scheming takes more of a central role, and he has to figure out what it is he exactly wants to do. His wildcard status is also emphasized by how he take different sides in the Fodlan faction, but he's always cleverly advancing his own interests and that of the Alliance. I always liked Claude, but I think the story treats him better this time around.
• Byleth goes without saying for me, given my opinions on silent mains.
• While I think Houses tends to win where serious writing is concerned, Hopes is unquestionably the funnier game. Chief beneficiary from this is Constance, who gets multiple absolutely hilarious supports/interactions (her Lorenz support and the Noble Trio paralogue being perhaps the best (her Petra support is also some good serious character work).

Worse:

• I can dig up old posts of mine here where I clearly state that Edelgard and Dimitri are my two favourite lords in the series, based on Houses. But in Hopes? Oh man, Dimitri does not come across well. Instead of a character arc where he hits rock bottom and then builds himself back up into someone who is admirable (but still living with the trauma of what he has experienced and done), we get someone who... never hits rock bottom, but seems to be doing kinda badly the whole way through? From his execution of Rufus, to "radical new freedoms are not what Fodlan needs right now" to his "we must kill all the lords who disagree with me" to his scene before the final battle where he's still talking about being bound by the dead, to the very final scene, I kinda felt like I was playing as the bad guy, kinda like in Chapter 13-17 of AM... except he never gets better! Only the fact that his antagonist was the Objectively Evil Thales kept me AG from feeling like a villain route, so instead it just felt like a "feels bad" route, especially as a fan of the character.
• A few characters suffered from being "softened" too much; that is, their negative traits were kinda just glossed over. Chief among these are Sylvain and Gilbert. Sylvain has randomly overcome his misogynist womanizing and Gilbert has had his estrangement from Annette just unceremoniously resolved. The thing is, these characters were really interesting for these reasons in Houses, so this is a net loss. Sylvain's positive traits do still shine through, at least; I like that he's the progressive voice of reason in his paralogue, for instance.
• I didn't like Ashe at all in Hopes. It felt like "becoming a knight" was turned into nearly his only personality trait, at the expense of his relationships with his family.
• Goodness I have to nominate someone who isn't a Lion here, don't I? Let's bring up poor Cyril. After Houses tried to make sure he was more than Rhea's yes-man once you dug below the surface, this game... really does reduce him to just that. Obviously the other "reduced to unplayable" characters suffer a bit, but Cyril suffers the most. Dying randomly in the final battle of GW in particular just seems like a middle finger to the character who wasn't even given the time of day on the route that now has more Almyran content than anything in Houses.

 

[Hrothgar777]

Edelgard for sure.

I don't know how common this take is, but I didn't like her as much post-timeskip in Three Houses. Appearance-wise the horns were goofy and the costume wasn't the most flattering. Whereas Dimitri definitely became a lot cooler, those five years didn't do anything for her. Both appearance and personality-wise it's like she was swallowed by her self-imposed destiny of "queen of suffering" and lost her old self. Which doesn't even make sense considering that she didn't seem to personally suffer during the timeskip (maybe the whole two crests thing was taking a toll on her; I don't know). The vast bulk of that was behind her by the start of Three Houses, yet she was still able to be the character we saw.

She shouldn't have been all that different in Three Hopes given that there was still a timeskip of 2 or 3 years, but nonetheless she seems to have changed less from her days at Garegg Mach. The most likely reason for this is the subordination of narrative itself to the musou format. What I mean is: Three Hopes can't take itself 100% seriously like Three Houses did, since everyone's shooting off hamfisted battlefield one-liners no matter how out of place this would realistically be, so they decided to make a more "fun" Edelgard with her youthful vigor intact.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Hrothgar777

[Etrurian emperor]

14 hours ago, Hrothgar777 said:

Edelgard for sure.

I don't know how common this take is, but I didn't like her as much post-timeskip in Three Houses. Appearance-wise the horns were goofy and the costume wasn't the most flattering. Whereas Dimitri definitely became a lot cooler, those five years didn't do anything for her. Both appearance and personality-wise it's like she was swallowed by her self-imposed destiny of "queen of suffering" and lost her old self. Which doesn't even make sense considering that she didn't seem to personally suffer during the timeskip (maybe the whole two crests thing was taking a toll on her; I don't know). The vast bulk of that was behind her by the start of Three Houses, yet she was still able to be the character we saw.

She shouldn't have been all that different in Three Hopes given that there was still a timeskip of 2 or 3 years, but nonetheless she seems to have changed less from her days at Garegg Mach. The most likely reason for this is the subordination of narrative itself to the musou format. What I mean is: Three Hopes can't take itself 100% seriously like Three Houses did, since everyone's shooting off hamfisted battlefield one-liners no matter how out of place this would realistically be, so they decided to make a more "fun" Edelgard with her youthful vigor intact.

For me its the other way around. Goofy as the horn was I think Timeskip Edelgard took a very interesting direction by modeling herself after previous emperors like Hardin or Walhardt. Meanwhile the Three Hopes Edelgard goes more for a generic cute girl look. I'd say the same about Dimitri who went from huge crazy hobo to generic cute boy look. Not that Dimitri doesn't have a good Hope design but it comes across as more conventional compared to what came before. 

In terms of character I think Hopes Edelgard lacks some bite too but that's probably due to kicking Thales to the curb much sooner and not being burdened by their alliance anymore. 

[Fabulously Olivier]

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

For me its the other way around. Goofy as the horn was I think Timeskip Edelgard took a very interesting direction by modeling herself after previous emperors like Hardin or Walhardt. Meanwhile the Three Hopes Edelgard goes more for a generic cute girl look. I'd say the same about Dimitri who went from huge crazy hobo to generic cute boy look. Not that Dimitri doesn't have a good Hope design but it comes across as more conventional compared to what came before. 

I'm with you on this one. Hopes' Edelgard has the single worst outfit in the game. It doesn't work on any level.

[Etrurian emperor]

Its purely in terms of design since in personality she remained the same but I think Hapi got a pretty good glow up. Her original timeskip design always sat poorly with me. With her formal robe and tiara Hapi looked kinda regal which is completely out of character for her. Hapi seems the kind of girl that doesn't give a hoot about looking pretty.

Hapi's new outfit is much less formal and the shoulder paths even give her some sort of ''biker'' motif that reinforces her status as a delinquent. 

[Asmont Osborne]

Done right?

• Byleth is much improved by being able to speak their mind. I loved their relationship with Sothis (really underrated character if you ask me) but in exchange, we got to see them actually weigh in on things and their relationship with Jeralt feels more potent here.
• Jeralt is even better than Byleth as far as I’m concerned. He has a lot of fun lines and I like how they didn’t do away with his flaws in any way (if anything, it’s even more apparent that he has a serious problem with alcohol), but made sure to show his pleasant side. Seeing him interact with Alois and Leonie was great.
• Caspar and Linhardt benefit a lot from having their parents around (love Leopold, btw), they often felt like outliers among the Black Eagles. Here, they feel like legitimate noble heirs rather than a comedic duo.

Done wrong?

• EDELGARD. No seriously, the brainwashing scene must’ve been written in by someone who despises her because I don’t think I’ve seen a worse display of disrespect from the writers in the whole franchise. I guess I’m happy she survives?
• Alois and Hanneman. My first and second favorite characters from Fódlan, respectively, for a lot of reasons. They got absolutely nothing here, which is a huge shame, I would’ve loved to see Alois talk with Jeralt at length, one-on-one.

[Jotari]

9 minutes ago, Asmont Osborne said:

Done right?

• Byleth is much improved by being able to speak their mind. I loved their relationship with Sothis (really underrated character if you ask me) but in exchange, we got to see them actually weigh in on things and their relationship with Jeralt feels more potent here.
• Jeralt is even better than Byleth as far as I’m concerned. He has a lot of fun lines and I like how they didn’t do away with his flaws in any way (if anything, it’s even more apparent that he has a serious problem with alcohol), but made sure to show his pleasant side. Seeing him interact with Alois and Leonie was great.
• Caspar and Linhardt benefit a lot from having their parents around (love Leopold, btw), they often felt like outliers among the Black Eagles. Here, they feel like legitimate noble heirs rather than a comedic duo.

Done wrong?

• EDELGARD. No seriously, the brainwashing scene must’ve been written in by someone who despises her because I don’t think I’ve seen a worse display of disrespect from the writers in the whole franchise. I guess I’m happy she survives?
• Alois and Hanneman. My first and second favorite characters from Fódlan, respectively, for a lot of reasons. They got absolutely nothing here, which is a huge shame, I would’ve loved to see Alois talk with Jeralt at length, one-on-one.

The Brainwashing is also hilariously just sidestepped entirely during the whole Epimenides stuff. Which really highlights how shoved in that section is in general. Doesn't matter how the war goes down, this exact scenario will inevitably happen (unless you make some random choice and don't get Byleth as an ally).

Edited November 29, 2023 by Jotari

[Etrurian emperor]

5 hours ago, Asmont Osborne said:

EDELGARD. No seriously, the brainwashing scene must’ve been written in by someone who despises her because I don’t think I’ve seen a worse display of disrespect from the writers in the whole franchise. I guess I’m happy she survives?

Ah yes. Its certainly a writing decision I don't have any respect for and it sours my opinion on Azure Gleam as a whole. Its still hard to figure out exactly why they decided to replace an antagonist everyone liked or at least respected with one that most people agreed was the obvious weak link in the writing.

However ultimately I think its more a problem with Thales than Edelgard. If Edelgard was toppled and brainwashed by an actual threat I wouldn't like it but at least I wouldn't consider it such character assassination. Had it been Epimenadis or a Slitherer Patricia who was actually competent that did so then it wouldn't be nearly so problematic. It wouldn't be good either but it be something at least instead of the gibberish we ended up with. 

Dislike of Edelgard does seem to be among the more likely explanations for why this happened. One could argue the devs just wanted to give Thales his day in the sun but given the lack of effort that went into his character and the many comments and jokes at the Slitheres expense I find it hard to believe any dev had such affection for him. Then again how central Edelgard is to Three Houses would make it really strange for devs to have such negative feelings for her. If they did she wouldn't have been so much more important than the other two lords. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Etrurian emperor

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Ah yes. Its certainly a writing decision I don't have any respect for and it sours my opinion on Azure Gleam as a whole. Its still hard to figure out exactly why they decided to replace an antagonist everyone liked or at least respected with one that most people agreed was the obvious weak link in the writing.

However ultimately I think its more a problem with Thales than Edelgard. If Edelgard was toppled and brainwashed by an actual threat I wouldn't like it but at least I wouldn't consider it such character assassination. Had it been Epimenadis or a Slitherer Patricia who was actually competent that did so then it wouldn't be nearly so problematic. It wouldn't be good either but it be something at least instead of the gibberish we ended up with. 

Dislike of Edelgard does seem to be among the more likely explanations for why this happened. One could argue the devs just wanted to give Thales his day in the sun but given the lack of effort that went into his character and the many comments and jokes at the Slitheres expense I find it hard to believe any dev had such affection for him. Then again how central Edelgard is to Three Houses would make it really strange for devs to have such negative feelings for her. If they did she wouldn't have been so much more important than the other two lords. 

The game begins with Edelgard overthrowing the Agarthans in a snap decision before the war starts. That is like a wet dream fanfic of Edelgardstans. So I don't think hatred of Edelgard from the devs is a likely explanation at all. I think it genuinely was out of a desire to make Thales a credible threat, precisely because he's been just so poorly handled. Did it work? No, obviously not, but I still think that is the motivating factor. Don't forget an Agarthan vs Dimitri showdown was also something missing in Azure Moon, so it makes sense they wanted to explore that rather than rehash the Dimitri vs Edelgard conflict.

What really sucks about it though is that they show us Hegemon Husk Edelgard in a cutscene and then never let us fight her 😞

Edited November 29, 2023 by Jotari

[Dark Holy Elf]

I definitely agree that I don't think the Houses/Hopes writers dislike Edelgard (quite the opposite), and I wouldn't chalk up Azure Gleam's second half to that.

My guess is the writers were given certain restrictions in how to write the story, which included "don't make any ending too overtly happy" (there's an interview where this is all but stated outright iirc), "don't turn any route into a lord versus lord conflict", and "don't kill off any of the lords". Hopes is set up so that Dimitri is an ally of the church, and hence, if my guesses are correct, the Agarthans are basically his only candidates for antagonists. But the Agarthans don't have a substantial army, instead relying on manipulation of existing forces. So the game uses Cornelia manipulating the western lords, than Thales manipulating the Empire. Of course, the question is, how do you make it so Thales, ousted in the prologue, is actually able to manipulate the Empire again? Given that killing Edelgard wasn't an option (if my guesses above are correct), and manipulating her with guile would be hard to stomach, arguably the route was one of their less bad options. But I still hate it. I think the writers basically wrote themselves into a corner.

On 11/29/2023 at 2:53 PM, Jotari said:

What really sucks about it though is that they show us Hegemon Husk Edelgard in a cutscene and then never let us fight her 😞

I'd be absolutely stunned if the original plan wasn't to have Hegemon Husk be the final boss of Azure Gleam along with Thales. I imagine she'd have been a uniquely powerful monster similar to Rhea's Immaculate One form. Hence the video of her (videos being commissioned early in development). But they ran out of time to actually create that boss fight, so they just put regular ol' axe Edelgard in that battlefield instead.

[Jotari]

21 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I definitely agree that I don't think the Houses/Hopes writers dislike Edelgard (quite the opposite), and I wouldn't chalk up Azure Gleam's second half to that.

My guess is the writers were given certain restrictions in how to write the story, which included "don't make any ending too overtly happy" (there's an interview where this is all but stated outright iirc), "don't turn any route into a lord versus lord conflict", and "don't kill off any of the lords". Hopes is set up so that Dimitri is an ally of the church, and hence, if my guesses are correct, the Agarthans are basically his only candidates for antagonists. But the Agarthans don't have a substantial army, instead relying on manipulation of existing forces. So the game uses Cornelia manipulating the western lords, than Thales manipulating the Empire. Of course, the question is, how do you make it so Thales, ousted in the prologue, is actually able to manipulate the Empire again? Given that killing Edelgard wasn't an option (if my guesses above are correct), and manipulating her with guile would be hard to stomach, arguably the route was one of their less bad options. But I still hate it. I think the writers basically wrote themselves into a corner.

Killing Edelgard half way through the route actually would have been a pretty interesting. As no route ever does that. You'd get more or less the same result only it would actually be more respectful to Edelgard's character and the Agarthan resurgence would be more chaotic than just stupidly fascist.

21 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I'd be absolutely stunned if the original plan wasn't to have Hegemon Husk be the final boss of Azure Gleam along with Thales. I imagine she'd have been a uniquely powerful monster similar to Rhea's Immaculate One form. Hence the video of her (videos being commissioned early in development). But they ran out of time to actually create that boss fight, so they just put regular ol' axe Edelgard in that battlefield instead.

Makes me wonder if they had any other inital plans for Blazing Wildfire's ending. As it has nothing really unique to it throwing Thales and Rhea at us. Yet despite that it is my favourite of the final battles, being just an over the top three way brawl. The game barely even knows why it has Thales there but why the hell not XD. And as disappointing as it is to not fight Hegemon Husk, I still prefer Dimitri's ending over Claude where is just another Rhea boss fight, something Three Houses already did twice.

It's a bit surprising they didn't use Nemesis in any route. Feels like he could have been Dimitri's final boss without too much rewriting.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Jotari

[Etrurian emperor]

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

It's a bit surprising they didn't use Nemesis in any route. Feels like he could have been Dimitri's final boss without too much rewriting.

Even the Arval flashback stage which takes place during the war against Nemesis he's strangely absent. 

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Even the Arval flashback stage which takes place during the war against Nemesis he's strangely absent. 

What I find more disappointing by that stage is that Indech and Maculi are missing, denying us proper human designs for them.