Which FEs have the best and worst character design, in your opinion?

[Nauriam]

16 hours ago, Jotari said:

I actually like Gaidens portraits quite a bit. A lot more than the first game.

You know, after looking at them again maybe I was a bit too harsh. The first 2 games are in a weird spot with some of the characters have actually interesting and really well done designs, and other are seemingly made to look dopey on purpose. It almost makes me think of the first season of Inital D, where Itsuki is clearly designed to look absolutely ridiculous for humor. The first game has quite a few characters that look absolutely ridiculous, a lot more than Gaiden at least. And some of Gaiden's characters genuinely look amazing. But a lot of Gaiden's cast has that weird in-between state of trying to look cool, but end up looking dopey instead. All of that said, I was definitely too harsh of Gaiden's cast, and they're not that bad.

[Jotari]

24 minutes ago, Nauriam said:

You know, after looking at them again maybe I was a bit too harsh. The first 2 games are in a weird spot with some of the characters have actually interesting and really well done designs, and other are seemingly made to look dopey on purpose. It almost makes me think of the first season of Inital D, where Itsuki is clearly designed to look absolutely ridiculous for humor. The first game has quite a few characters that look absolutely ridiculous, a lot more than Gaiden at least. And some of Gaiden's characters genuinely look amazing. But a lot of Gaiden's cast has that weird in-between state of trying to look cool, but end up looking dopey instead. All of that said, I was definitely too harsh of Gaiden's cast, and they're not that bad.

Yeah, I think that's a good assessment. I like the Gaiden portraits that I like, and the ones I like are the ones I remember, but taking the game as a whole there are definitely some stinkers in there. The best thing to say about the NES Games' art design is that it  has a wide spectrum of quality.

Edited February 15 by Jotari

[Magenta Fantasies]

On 2/8/2024 at 9:02 AM, ping said:

I'll also mention that I really don't like how the eyes of 3H characters are drawn. The big "double-irises" and tiny pupils make all their faces look very odd to me, even though I generally don't mind the other parts of 3H's character designs.

I absolutely hate the art style of Three Houses, so I’m glad I’m not alone in that regard. The character portraits creep me out so much. They look dead and glassy-eyed. That being said, I struggle to think of any specific character designs I dislike. I’m neutral on most of them. It’s the art style that is abysmal.

Most FE games have hit-or-miss character designs, so it’s hard for me to pick a favorite. Overall, I’d probably say Fates, with Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn as a second. There are several designs I really like from both games (Corrin’s retainers, the Nohrian royals, Shigure, Shura, Effie, Ryoma, Sakura, Hana, Selkie, Keaton, Siegbert, Soren, Elincia, Mia, Callill, the Black Knight, Petrine, Oliver, Lethe, Lyre, Vika, Naesala, Nailah) and extremely few I dislike. Ranulf, Makalov and Odin are the only ones I dislike that I can think of offhand, and at least Odin’s design perfectly fits his “over-the-top weirdo dark mage” personality. Maybe it’s because I grew up in the 90s and 2000s and fondly remember MMORPG/online RPGs, but I tend to like fantasy designs that are more fantastical or over-the-top (e.g. Dynasty Warriors, Naraka Bladepoint, League of Angels.) Awakening is fairly high on my favorites list, but silly elements like the goofy toilet-bowl neck armor and the comically oversized witch hats push it below Fates.

Engage is the most hit-or-miss of all for me. For reasons stated above, there are some character designs I really like (Céline, Chloé, Lapis, and Seadall come to mind,) but others I think are hideous. I’m unsure if I like or dislike Panette’s design. I’m not sure if she’s supposed to be a “butterface” or not, but if she is, at least unlike with Tharja or Aversa it seems intentional.

I’m surprised no one has mentioned TMS. I think the same about those designs as Engage. Some are cool and some are ridiculous.

As for the worst character designs, putting aside graphical limitations (many of the Geneaology/Thracia portraits look too similar, the general quality of the Shadow Dragon/Gaiden portraits) I’d have to agree about the Binding Blade. The other GBA games aren’t nearly as bad about using eye-searing oversatured colors (although Myrrh’s color scheme burns my eyes.)

[ARMADS!!!]

38 minutes ago, Magenta Fantasies said:

I absolutely hate the art style of Three Houses, so I’m glad I’m not alone in that regard. The character portraits creep me out so much. They look dead and glassy-eyed. That being said, I struggle to think of any specific character designs I dislike. I’m neutral on most of them. It’s the art style that is abysmal.

Most FE games have hit-or-miss character designs, so it’s hard for me to pick a favorite. Overall, I’d probably say Fates, with Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn as a second. There are several designs I really like from both games (Corrin’s retainers, the Nohrian royals, Shigure, Shura, Effie, Ryoma, Sakura, Hana, Selkie, Keaton, Siegbert, Soren, Elincia, Mia, Callill, the Black Knight, Petrine, Oliver, Lethe, Lyre, Vika, Naesala, Nailah) and extremely few I dislike. Ranulf, Makalov and Odin are the only ones I dislike that I can think of offhand, and at least Odin’s design perfectly fits his “over-the-top weirdo dark mage” personality. Maybe it’s because I grew up in the 90s and 2000s and fondly remember MMORPG/online RPGs, but I tend to like fantasy designs that are more fantastical or over-the-top (e.g. Dynasty Warriors, Naraka Bladepoint, League of Angels.) Awakening is fairly high on my favorites list, but silly elements like the goofy toilet-bowl neck armor and the comically oversized witch hats push it below Fates.

Engage is the most hit-or-miss of all for me. For reasons stated above, there are some character designs I really like (Céline, Chloé, Lapis, and Seadall come to mind,) but others I think are hideous. I’m unsure if I like or dislike Panette’s design. I’m not sure if she’s supposed to be a “butterface” or not, but if she is, at least unlike with Tharja or Aversa it seems intentional.

I’m surprised no one has mentioned TMS. I think the same about those designs as Engage. Some are cool and some are ridiculous.

As for the worst character designs, putting aside graphical limitations (many of the Geneaology/Thracia portraits look too similar, the general quality of the Shadow Dragon/Gaiden portraits) I’d have to agree about the Binding Blade. The other GBA games aren’t nearly as bad about using eye-searing oversatured colors (although Myrrh’s color scheme burns my eyes.)

 I think that, ironically, FE8 has more saturated colors than FE7 in general, at least if my memory serves me right. I remember a few characters that felt a bit more saturated than they had to be in FE8, though of course it's not near as bad as in FE6 (I wouldn't even say it's bad at all -- in FE8 I mean, it's just that they're notably more saturated than in FE7).

 I think that it's part of the core FE fan experience to be enchanted with the difference in the quality of the portraits between FE4 and FE5. Simply the fact that FE5's sprites got such a glowup in comparision to FE4's make me see the visuals of the game as a whole in a way higher regard that I would otherwise.

 Also, while I like FE4 official art and the designs... GOD THE SPRITES ARE UGLY! I mean, I'm used to them by now but the first time I saw them (was when I decided to play FE4 right after FE7 and saw the first cutscene of the prologue) I decided to leave the game for later and play FE6 instread cause I thought that liking the series a bit more before playing FE4 would make me more likely to go throught those ugly portraits. Now it doesn't actually bother me anymore, they even grew on me a bit, but if I had to make a list of the characters I find beautiful on the game (based on how the portraits look), the list would have some 5 people and that's it, the rest looks neutral or worse.

 I gotta admit that I like TMS style a lot, some specific designs are sorta ridiculous but the visuals of the game are very pretty, I like the arstyle, the colors,... If it was a mainline game I'd like it less for being too anime for a mainline, but as it is I don't mind, it's the same as when they make a character get an alt in FEH and it has a very animey artsyle but looks awesome. Also, either way, even if it was too animey, at least it looks very pretty, unlike Engage, that looks horrible to me and I detest the artstyle. If Engage had a better artstyle, I'd even mind the weird design a bit less.

 I don't mind 3 Houses artstyle either, I mean, it's among my least favorite ones (but having games with such beautiful protraits as FE5, PoR, RD, Awakening and Fates, it'd be hard to be on the higher end of the list) but I don't dislike it at all, I'd consider it right in the middle. I get what you mean by the eyes but I personally don't mind it, I think it looks pretty even. It will never beat Wada Sachiko's, Kita Senri's and Kozaki Yusuke's arts, and it doesn't have the charm of some of the older portraits (including GBA, that has a very cool variety between the characters' faces), but it's also not bad as Shadow Dragon or Engage. I'm talking artsyle only right now, if I have to count the design of their clothes and all then the list changes a lot in terms of what I find good or bad (for one, the actual designs in Shadow Dragon are actually pretty good, Jotari even made a post with the Shadow dragon characters portraits in GBA and it makes you really notice how good the designs are per se).

[Etrurian emperor]

2 hours ago, ARMADS!!! said:

 Also, while I like FE4 official art and the designs... GOD THE SPRITES ARE UGLY!

They are but things like Sigurd's giant chin breed character. You can also see plenty of asset re-use going on. Most infamously that one mini boss with about a hundred twin brothers, but I believe Seliph literally has his mothers face. 

[Jotari]

37 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

They are but things like Sigurd's giant chin breed character. You can also see plenty of asset re-use going on. Most infamously that one mini boss with about a hundred twin brothers, but I believe Seliph literally has his mothers face. 

Mandatory plug to my document analyzing all the reused portraits in Genealogy

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/152tesU0rlJy9RTk-K9u_DbgUkib6Z3a-2K2qA-7CRww/edit?usp=sharing

Though something like Seliph sharing a face with Deirdre feels more intentional then lazy. It's certainly a far get from Eldigan and Ares. Was Agustria working on cloning technology or something?

[ARMADS!!!]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Mandatory plug to my document analyzing all the reused portraits in Genealogy

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/152tesU0rlJy9RTk-K9u_DbgUkib6Z3a-2K2qA-7CRww/edit?usp=sharing

Though something like Seliph sharing a face with Deirdre feels more intentional then lazy. It's certainly a far get from Eldigan and Ares. Was Agustria working on cloning technology or something?

I read once that Seliph has Deirdre's face because he was planned to be a woman during a big part of the development, thought I don't know if that's really true, or just some fan theory trying to justify why he has Deirdre's face, or if some part is true (for example, Seliph initially being supposed to be a woman) and then someone just made up the rest.

 O̶b̶v̶i̶o̶u̶s̶l̶y̶,̶ ̶A̶r̶e̶s̶ ̶l̶o̶o̶k̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶m̶u̶c̶h̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶E̶l̶d̶i̶g̶a̶n̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶h̶e̶ ̶h̶a̶d ̶k̶i̶d̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶s̶i̶s̶t̶e̶r̶.̶(Joking --before anyone jumps at me.  They totally have a cloning machine though, I mean, look at all these "triplets", and Andrey's son too)

 Pretty cool document, thanks for sharing. Once I tried to keep track of every recolor character of FE4 but then I got lazy and gave up (only kept notes of some in my head such as Aida and Liza, the lady of the lake and Queen Lahna, and the recolor of Chagall). I remembered Ishtore being a recolor of some gen 1 guy too, but guess I was wrong, I just had to check a video of the cutscenes to be sure and I can't believe I spent so long thinking he was a recolor...

 Also, not sure if you count the villagers, as they mostly just share sprites with other villagers, but there's this one villager with the same sprite of Filat, he's the dude that gives the restore staff in chapter 3, and for some reason is the only villager with this sprite to show up on the game, while every other villager sprite is repeated several times.

 EDIT: Ironically, Eldigan and Ares are less similar than I thought they were, I thought they were just a recolor from each other but identical otherwise, but Ares actually has different eyes and even different clothes! Also part of Eldigan's hair seems to be slicked back/tied up (right behind his years) while Ares's hair is down, it's ridiculously subtle but it's cool that he doesn't use the exact same hairstyle of his dad that likely died before he could remember the way he used his hair. Ares also has a slightly bigger nose, seeing them side by side really makes it easier to notice that they're not identical.

Edited February 22 by ARMADS!!!

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, ARMADS!!! said:

I read once that Seliph has Deirdre's face because he was planned to be a woman during a big part of the development, thought I don't know if that's really true, or just some fan theory trying to justify why he has Deirdre's face, or if some part is true (for example, Seliph initially being supposed to be a woman) and then someone just made up the rest.

 O̶b̶v̶i̶o̶u̶s̶l̶y̶,̶ ̶A̶r̶e̶s̶ ̶l̶o̶o̶k̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶m̶u̶c̶h̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶E̶l̶d̶i̶g̶a̶n̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶h̶e̶ ̶h̶a̶d ̶k̶i̶d̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶s̶i̶s̶t̶e̶r̶.̶(Joking --before anyone jumps at me.  They totally have a cloning machine though, I mean, look at all these "triplets", and Andrey's son too)

 Pretty cool document, thanks for sharing. Once I tried to keep track of every recolor character of FE4 but then I got lazy and gave up (only kept notes of some in my head such as Aida and Liza, the lady of the lake and Queen Lahna, and the recolor of Chagall). I remembered Ishtore being a recolor of some gen 1 guy too, but guess I was wrong, I just had to check a video of the cutscenes to be sure and I can't believe I spent so long thinking he was a recolor...

 Also, not sure if you count the villagers, as they mostly just share sprites with other villagers, but there's this one villager with the same sprite of Filat, he's the dude that gives the restore staff in chapter 3, and for some reason is the only villager with this sprite to show up on the game, while every other villager sprite is repeated several times.

Not going to lie, I'd be totally down for female Seliph. Even if it'd purely be a cosmetic change and nothing else, it would make him a lot more distinct given the gender ratio of our protagonists over the series as a whole, it'd be a little less cliched to have the daughter take up the mantle instead of the son, especially in the 90s before we got a whole slew of YA female protagonists of that type (though that's in the west, in Japan female protagonists seem to be fewer despite female leading characters being in much bigger abundance than western media) and, while fem!Seliph would still be sharing her game with a male lord, she wouldn't be sharing her story with one as Celica, Lyn, Eirika and Micaiah do. For most lords in the series I'd have a pretty dim view of a gender swap, but Seliph is actually one of my least favourite lords despite being in one of my most favourite games, because he's just so plain and boring, so even that as a slightly more interesting modification would do a lot for my tastes. If this was considered at some point, I wonder why they changed their mind, especially given they knew of their increasing female player base and gave Seliph the ability to dismount purely so female players could still use the cuter sprite (though it's possible it was never considered and said dismounting interview comment might be what you're thinking of). It'd also be just plain fun to have a female lord who is just so dominant in gameplay in a way that none of the female non Avatar lords are (and few female characters in general that aren't cute dragon girls).

Edited February 22 by Jotari

[Fire Emblem Fan]

One thing to note about the brightness in Binding Blade is that the GBA originally did not have a backlight, you actually had to buy an attachment. Games were required to do things with bright stuff like in Binding so players could actually see the game. The GBA SP was what actually brought a light to the screen so games didn't have to do that anymore.

[ARMADS!!!]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Not going to lie, I'd be totally down for female Seliph. Even if it'd purely be a cosmetic change and nothing else, it would make him a lot more distinct given the gender ratio of our protagonists over the series as a whole, it'd be a little less cliched to have the daughter take up the mantle instead of the son, especially in the 90s before we got a whole slew of YA female protagonists of that type (though that's in the west, in Japan female protagonists seem to be fewer despite female leading characters being in much bigger abundance than western media) and, while fem!Seliph would still be sharing her game with a male lord, she wouldn't be sharing her story with one as Celica, Lyn, Eirika and Micaiah do. For most lords in the series I'd have a pretty dim view of a gender swap, but Seliph is actually one of my least favourite lords despite being in one of my most favourite games, because he's just so plain and boring, so even that as a slightly more interesting modification would do a lot for my tastes. If this was considered at some point, I wonder why they changed their mind, especially given they knew of their increasing female player base and gave Seliph the ability to dismount purely so female players could still use the cuter sprite (though it's possible it was never considered and said dismounting interview comment might be what you're thinking of). It'd also be just plain fun to have a female lord who is just so dominant in gameplay in a way that none of the female non Avatar lords are (and few female characters in general that aren't cute dragon girls).

 It's not the dismounting comment that I was thinking, I had already heard of that one too but the "Seliph was supposed to be a woman" thing was heard in other place, I suspect it might not be true exactly because it was from some "underground" source (like a random Reddit comment in a sorta unrelated thread, or a random post in a SF topic, something like that), the statement was that Seliph was planned to be a woman and that that was probably why he bad Deirdre's face but that eventually it was scrapped. I'm almost sure I read it more than once too (although maybe I just revisited the place I read it for the first time - as I'm always revisiting threads - or it could just be some eccho chambered comment that has no basis), but of course, seeing it more than once doesn't mean anything... Regardless of whether this information is true, I'd find it cool if Seliph was a women too, I think he's one of the few lords I wouldn't mind at all being gender swapped. I think Seliph ended up being shallow because a lot of what they wanted to do with him was to follow a theme/to put light on what he represents and not in his personality, like how a bunch of characters in Apollo Justice turned out to be (ex: they wanted to make the character that is usually a dick be a good guy but were to stuck to this idea so he ended up being shallow, etc), at least that's how I see it, not that this makes it better, I really think he could have been less bland. I figure that something as simple as making Seliph a women would've made it more interesting too, first for being new and different from the other lords at the time as you said (and interesting to see a girl inheriting from her dad, one thing I like a lot about Leif is that they made the male kid not be the one that can inherit the Gaé Bolg, with Seliph it'd create a similar interest from me) and then because they mention how hard it became to be a women in gen 2 so having a female lord there would have been badass. Julia would have to be a man then, I guess, considering that they are supposed to sorta fall in love (maybe that was the reason Seliph's gender was flipped, if that was ever even an actual idea?), obviously not to say it couldn't be two women, it's just that I seriously doubt they'd do this at that time considering that the first openly and undeniably lgbt characters (let alone lord) in the series were Heather and Kyza like 6 games later.  

 Also, Lyn does have her own story, I get you meant her participation in Hector/Eliwood mode but at the end of the day she did get her short standalone story that was all about her. Also doesn't Edelgard have her stand alone story in 3 Houses and 3 Hopes? I'm not exactly sure how standalone each path of 3 Houses is (or if it's something like 4 versions of the same story - except that the side you're on wins- sorta like Sonic Adventure) that's why I ask. In any case, yeah, just 2 is very little, the series could use more standalone female lords, and a game with gen 1 and 2 would have been a good opportunity, in case they didn't want to make a game with no male lord at all.

 

47 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

One thing to note about the brightness in Binding Blade is that the GBA originally did not have a backlight, you actually had to buy an attachment. Games were required to do things with bright stuff like in Binding so players could actually see the game. The GBA SP was what actually brought a light to the screen so games didn't have to do that anymore.

Oh, nice to know. FE7 and 8 both came after the GBA SP then? That's why they didn't have to be that bright? Still, they could've make FE6 be bright in a less offputting way (like Sonic Advance, Kirby Nightmare in Dreamland, Ace Attorney, etc, which are all games that came a bit before FE6).

[Jotari]

55 minutes ago, ARMADS!!! said:

 It's not the dismounting comment that I was thinking, I had already heard of that one too but the "Seliph was supposed to be a woman" thing was heard in other place, I suspect it might not be true exactly because it was from some "underground" source (like a random Reddit comment in a sorta unrelated thread, or a random post in a SF topic, something like that), the statement was that Seliph was planned to be a woman and that that was probably why he bad Deirdre's face but that eventually it was scrapped. I'm almost sure I read it more than once too (although maybe I just revisited the place I read it for the first time - as I'm always revisiting threads - or it could just be some eccho chambered comment that has no basis), but of course, seeing it more than once doesn't mean anything... Regardless of whether this information is true, I'd find it cool if Seliph was a women too, I think he's one of the few lords I wouldn't mind at all being gender swapped. I think Seliph ended up being shallow because a lot of what they wanted to do with him was to follow a theme/to put light on what he represents and not in his personality, like how a bunch of characters in Apollo Justice turned out to be (ex: they wanted to make the character that is usually a dick be a good guy but were to stuck to this idea so he ended up being shallow, etc), at least that's how I see it, not that this makes it better, I really think he could have been less bland. I figure that something as simple as making Seliph a women would've made it more interesting too, first for being new and different from the other lords at the time as you said (and interesting to see a girl inheriting from her dad, one thing I like a lot about Leif is that they made the male kid not be the one that can inherit the Gaé Bolg, with Seliph it'd create a similar interest from me) and then because they mention how hard it became to be a women in gen 2 so having a female lord there would have been badass. Julia would have to be a man then, I guess, considering that they are supposed to sorta fall in love (maybe that was the reason Seliph's gender was flipped, if that was ever even an actual idea?), obviously not to say it couldn't be two women, it's just that I seriously doubt they'd do this at that time considering that the first openly and undeniably lgbt characters (let alone lord) in the series were Heather and Kyza like 6 games later.  

 Also, Lyn does have her own story, I get you meant her participation in Hector/Eliwood mode but at the end of the day she did get her short standalone story that was all about her. Also doesn't Edelgard have her stand alone story in 3 Houses and 3 Hopes? I'm not exactly sure how standalone each path of 3 Houses is (or if it's something like 4 versions of the same story - except that the side you're on wins- sorta like Sonic Adventure) that's why I ask. In any case, yeah, just 2 is very little, the series could use more standalone female lords, and a game with gen 1 and 2 would have been a good opportunity, in case they didn't want to make a game with no male lord at all.

 

Oh, nice to know. FE7 and 8 both came after the GBA SP then? That's why they didn't have to be that bright? Still, they could've make FE6 be bright in a less offputting way (like Sonic Advance, Kirby Nightmare in Dreamland, Ace Attorney, etc, which are all games that came a bit before FE6).

Seliph, while mechanically inheriting from Sigurd, is the thematic inheritor of Deirdre, being the prince of light represent Naga's blood. I think Julia should stay a woman though. They're not meant to be lovers, they're brother and sisters. Them being lovers would go against the whole idea of the story! The Seliph x Julia idea comes from a bizarre glitch that lets you pair them up, but they don't have an ending or anything. They are functionally not meant to be able to hook up.

[Acacia Sgt]

9 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Seliph, while mechanically inheriting from Sigurd, is the thematic inheritor of Deirdre, being the prince of light represent Naga's blood. I think Julia should stay a woman though. They're not meant to be lovers, they're brother and sisters. Them being lovers would go against the whole idea of the story! The Seliph x Julia idea comes from a bizarre glitch that lets you pair them up, but they don't have an ending or anything. They are functionally not meant to be able to hook up.

I mean, they still start with 490 Love Points (they just aren't meant to gain more). The game is trying to seemingly pull a Sigurd+Dierdre 2.0 there... only to subvert it in the end. Which is the perhaps the point.

[ARMADS!!!]

41 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Seliph, while mechanically inheriting from Sigurd, is the thematic inheritor of Deirdre, being the prince of light represent Naga's blood. I think Julia should stay a woman though. They're not meant to be lovers, they're brother and sisters. Them being lovers would go against the whole idea of the story! The Seliph x Julia idea comes from a bizarre glitch that lets you pair them up, but they don't have an ending or anything. They are functionally not meant to be able to hook up.

No, no! I didn't say they were supposed to be lovers, what I meant was that they do sorta fall in love (because they start with the love points almost at max, at 490), and I think it's important that they precisely DON'T get to end up together, because that falls in the theme that Seliph doesn't commit the same mistakes as his father. Had Seliph rushed to marry Julia like Sigurd rushed to marry Deirdre (without knowing shit about her such as that she's Cigyun's kid- and he knew Cygiun's story- and therefore the princess that is being persecuted by the Loptous cult and by proxy would know that Arvis might have Loptous blood, or that she had a marking in the middle of her forehead), he would be marrying his own sister, I always saw the thing of them starting with 490 love points as they both being into each other (cause, well, that's what it's supposed to represent) but then not rushing it, and then they find out they're related (so the love points grow negatively, because now they don't want it anymore). I meant that at the time the game were made, they'd probably want to make Seliph and Julia be of opposite sexes, because of this.

 

31 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I mean, they still start with 490 Love Points (they just aren't meant to gain more). The game is trying to seemingly pull a Sigurd+Dierdre 2.0 there... only to subvert it in the end. Which is the perhaps the point.

Yes, I always saw it as the point. They liked each other but waited, and were rewarded for waiting until they knew who the hell the other one was. In gen 1, they even made it a point to mention on chapter 2's starting text that Sigurd and Deirdre married "immediately", so you know they didn't take the time to know anything about the other, and if they had, they could probably be able to try to stop the cult. Julia and Seliph did, so they're not commiting the same mistakes as their parents.

Edited February 22 by ARMADS!!!

[Jotari]

40 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I mean, they still start with 490 Love Points (they just aren't meant to gain more). The game is trying to seemingly pull a Sigurd+Dierdre 2.0 there... only to subvert it in the end. Which is the perhaps the point.

 

30 minutes ago, ARMADS!!! said:

No, no! I didn't say they were supposed to be lovers, what I meant was that they do sorta fall in love (because they start with the love points almost at max, at 490), and I think it's important that they precisely DON'T get to end up together, because that falls in the theme that Seliph doesn't commit the same mistakes as his father. Had Seliph rushed to marry Julia like Sigurd rushed to marry Deirdre (without knowing shit about her such as that she's Cigyun's kid- and he knew Cygiun's story- and therefore the princess that is being persecuted by the Loptous cult and by proxy would know that Arvis might have Loptous blood, or that she had a marking in the middle of her forehead), he would be marrying his own sister, I always saw the thing of them starting with 490 love points as they both being into each other (cause, well, that's what it's supposed to represent) but then not rushing it, and then they find out they're related (so the love points grow negatively, because now they don't want it anymore). I meant that at the time the game were made, they'd probably want to make Seliph and Julia be of opposite sexes, because of this.

 

Yes, I always saw it as the point. They liked each other but waited, and were rewarded for waiting until they knew who the hell the other one was. In gen 1, they even made it a point to mention on chapter 2's starting text that Sigurd and Deirdre married "immediately", so you know they didn't take the time to know anything about the other, and if they had, they could probably be able to try to stop the cult. Julia and Seliph did, so they're not commiting the same mistakes as their parents.

Yeah, but that feels more like some kind of joke by the developers than anything else. After all, we are never meant to be able to see love points. It's not visually ever conveyed to us. Though I guess the Augury might say Seliph and Julia are almost in love? Never asked him (in fact I don't think I've ever used the Augury at all). But it's not really a plot point that I think is necessary and thus destroyed if Seliph and Julia are both women.

[Acacia Sgt]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Yeah, but that feels more like some kind of joke by the developers than anything else. After all, we are never meant to be able to see love points. It's not visually ever conveyed to us. Though I guess the Augury might say Seliph and Julia are almost in love? Never asked him (in fact I don't think I've ever used the Augury at all). But it's not really a plot point that I think is necessary and thus destroyed if Seliph and Julia are both women.

Yes, the Augury tells you.

I would bet any potential remake might flesh this part of their dynamic, to make it more clear.

[ARMADS!!!]

Yes, I agree it wasn't an important plot point, and maybe I'm just reading too much into it with my interpretation, so if they happened to have made Seliph a woman back then it wouldn't actually change anything important in this regard, but I gotta admit that I'm very fond of this interpretation so I'd like them to keep the 490 love points thing in a remake (if one ever happens, that is...), and explore it.

 

Sorta unrelated with the actual conversation (but related to the topic) but I just remembered one thing I absolutely adore about FE4's design: The members of house Chalphy have a pattern of the Tyrfing on their boots (in Ethlyn's case I'm not 100% if it's the Tyrfing or just a staff, so maybe it's the type of weapon they use- the Tyrfing for who has major blood), I always loved it, think its a very nice detail. Also other simple but awesome clothing choices (such as having the cape be attached to the tip of the shoulder pads like Ishtar and Ishtor, Claud's black and white robes, that art that shows Ishtar on a dress that has a thunder pattern on it, how a lot of characters have beautiful earrings, how well the colors tend to match but they use simple color schemes, etc) make FE4 be one of the games with my favorite clothing design in the series, if not my favorite (maybe favorite goes to Archanea, Merric's clothes are awesome, you can't know how disappointed I was when the characters on the Khadein banner in feh didn't get bulky robes with gigantic shoulder pads that have gems dangling and those awesome tall mage hats). I really hope that they do a remake cause I wanna see the cool design of FE4 in higher quality and awesome portraits.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Yes, the Augury tells you.

I would bet any potential remake might flesh this part of their dynamic, to make it more clear.

Oh I hope not. Genealogy already has the reputation of the incest game. I'd prefer they not lean into it and give us more of the sibling relationship over cliched soap opera melodrama.

[ARMADS!!!]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Oh I hope not. Genealogy already has the reputation of the incest game. I'd prefer they not lean into it and give us more of the sibling relationship over cliched soap opera melodrama.

But Seliph is awesome for being the non incest guy in the incest game, he did what no man on FE4 had the courage to do: stop wanting to bang a woman after finding out she's his sister!

I tend to detest and cringe at soap opera like melodrama, but for some reason I like it a lot on FE4.

[Etrurian emperor]

15 hours ago, Jotari said:

Though something like Seliph sharing a face with Deirdre feels more intentional then lazy. It's certainly a far get from Eldigan and Ares. Was Agustria working on cloning technology or something?

Oh sure. Seliph being kinda sensitive and girly makes inheriting his mothers look a good fit. Still given he's not the only one I still think it weren't just artistic reasons but technical limitations that landed him his mom's face. I believe Azelle and Lachesis also share a face. 

 

[Use the Falchion]

I think Awakening is still my favorite in terms of character design, but Path of Radiance probably has the best IMO. It's grounded but still clearly high-fantasy, gives a sense of characterization while still being functional, and is overall awesome. 

Least favorite would either be Radiant Dawn simply because I didn't like how several of the characters looked or Fates, because while some designs were incredibly awesome, others were terribly over-designed and just annoying. (ODIN I'M LOOKING AT YOU.) 

[Metal Flash]

Basic bi*** opinion incoming

Sacred Stones has my personal favourite character designs. They just look so nice and clean, with the bright colors making characters pop. Armor looks nice too. Elibe designs are a close second.

It`s a close tie between pre-timeskip Three Houses and Engage for my least favourite. While post-timeskip TH chars get unique designs, their academy looks are a tad too same-y for my liking. Meanwhile, Engage suffers from many designs being overly busy with too much going on and overly bright colors.

Dishonorable mention to Awakening and Fates for having some really dumb class outfits (Awakening Armor Knights and Fates female Cavalier/Paladin/Great Knight/Dark Knight)

[ping]

On 2/21/2024 at 7:26 PM, Magenta Fantasies said:

I absolutely hate the art style of Three Houses, so I’m glad I’m not alone in that regard. The character portraits creep me out so much. They look dead and glassy-eyed. That being said, I struggle to think of any specific character designs I dislike. I’m neutral on most of them. It’s the art style that is abysmal.

Yeah, it's similar for me. I couldn't point at any character whose outfit/hair/general design I dislike... except for the uncanny, piercing eyes.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 2/21/2024 at 8:32 PM, Jotari said:

It'd also be just plain fun to have a female lord who is just so dominant in gameplay in a way that none of the female non Avatar lords are (and few female characters in general that aren't cute dragon girls).

Hm, maybe Edelgard though? She's probably the strongest or second-strongest unit in 3H. At least, assuming you plop her onto a Wyvern.

On 2/22/2024 at 1:00 AM, ARMADS!!! said:

Yes, I agree it wasn't an important plot point, and maybe I'm just reading too much into it with my interpretation, so if they happened to have made Seliph a woman back then it wouldn't actually change anything important in this regard, but I gotta admit that I'm very fond of this interpretation so I'd like them to keep the 490 love points thing in a remake (if one ever happens, that is...), and explore it.

Broke: Making Seliph a girl would totally change her romantic relationships, and connections with other units.

Woke: Girl Seliph can keep all her relationships, because she's actually a charismatic lesbian.

Not sure how we got here, but I would've been very cool with a female Seliph. The other "truly great" units of Gen II - Leif, Ares, and Oifey - are all male. As are most legendary weapon users - Shannan, Febail, and Lewyn's son. Having a woman be the main Lord in Gen II - and a great combat unit, with the Tyrfing later on - would be pretty cool.

On top of that, in the endings, the women don't get as many political opportunities. Ares goes on to rule Augustria, while Shannan takes over Isaach. Altenna would make perfect sense as a ruler of a unified Thracia - daughter of the north, raised in the south - but of course, that title goes to Leif. And otherwise, it's usually "<insert character's> son" taking over a country or house. I.e. Jamke's son ruling Verdane, or Claud's son running Edda. There are a few exceptions, but usually, the women just follow their husbands. Having the "paramount leader" of Grannvale, at Belhalla, being a woman, would be a neat counterbalancing force.

[Jotari]

38 minutes ago, Shanty Pete&#x27;s 1st Mate said:

Hm, maybe Edelgard though? She's probably the strongest or second-strongest unit in 3H. At least, assuming you plop her onto a Wyvern.

Broke: Making Edelgard a Wyvern because it's her best class

Woke: Making Edelgard an Emperor because it's her canonical class

Enlightened: Not playing Three Houses and playing Engage instead

[ARMADS!!!]

6 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Hm, maybe Edelgard though? She's probably the strongest or second-strongest unit in 3H. At least, assuming you plop her onto a Wyvern.

Broke: Making Seliph a girl would totally change her romantic relationships, and connections with other units.

Woke: Girl Seliph can keep all her relationships, because she's actually a charismatic lesbian.

Not sure how we got here, but I would've been very cool with a female Seliph. The other "truly great" units of Gen II - Leif, Ares, and Oifey - are all male. As are most legendary weapon users - Shannan, Febail, and Lewyn's son. Having a woman be the main Lord in Gen II - and a great combat unit, with the Tyrfing later on - would be pretty cool.

On top of that, in the endings, the women don't get as many political opportunities. Ares goes on to rule Augustria, while Shannan takes over Isaach. Altenna would make perfect sense as a ruler of a unified Thracia - daughter of the north, raised in the south - but of course, that title goes to Leif. And otherwise, it's usually "<insert character's> son" taking over a country or house. I.e. Jamke's son ruling Verdane, or Claud's son running Edda. There are a few exceptions, but usually, the women just follow their husbands. Having the "paramount leader" of Grannvale, at Belhalla, being a woman, would be a neat counterbalancing force.

 Oh yeah, I suggested that while forgetting that gen2 has love points too, but in any case Seliph doesn't have a next gen so they could do it, it'd be better than any of Shannan's or Oifrey's pairings.

 Broke: Giving Shannan the option of marrying his teenage cousin that he raised and that he explicitly says that reminds him of his aunt that raised him.

 Woke: Make Shannan x Oifrey an option (but seriously, these two should have a paired ending - whether romantic, platonic, ambiguous, or whatever- in a remake, they were friends for some 20 years and went throught a lot together, also in virtue of letting both have more than one ending (that isn't creepy), c'mon, even if the ending is just "they kept being friends and exchanged letters sometimes!")

Edited February 28 by ARMADS!!!