(Mafia Sucks) SF Mafia: The Revival - GAME OVER, Town Wins! - Post Game is up!

[Rapier]

1 minute ago, Makaze said:

Can you those piles into town/scum/and pure PoE?

Seems Town: Prims, Sunwoo

Likely Town: BBM

Neutral, leaning slightly towards town: Marth

Conflip on leaning slightly towards town/scum: Makaze

Neutral: Elie, j00, SB, via

Neutral, leaning very slightly towards scum: Cam

Leaning towards scum: Shinori

Seems scum: Weapons

 

I got to eat and go back to this juggernault of an assigned that's due today, plus a presentation I have to do tomorrow, so I don't think I can stay here for longer and I hope I can settle this somehow before leaving for good.

[Shinori]

Technically in the above, I admit I missed it, Rapier said I give them scumvibes, and this adds in more to my following paragraph related to how they stated they don't think me X Makaze is scum X scum yet both me and makaze are either "scum vibes" or "worth dayvigging"

I really apologize about this triple post.  I was actively trying to avoid it.

[Rapier]

oh right, forgot about Refa

I'm neutral. I haven't been able to conclude about his alignment just from what I've read so far. I don't enjoy his reasons for voting me for reasons I already said exhaustively, so. Leaning slightly towards scum, at worst, and neutral at best.

[Shinori]

Just now, Rapier said:

Conflip on leaning slightly towards town/scum: Makaze

Just now, Rapier said:

Leaning towards scum: Shinori

Nah.  If you think me X makaze are not Scum x scum this should not be that hard.

Based on this reads post your 'coin flip' could put both me and makaze in the scum territory.

And if you think we are both scum(which you stated you don't currently think we are scum x scum) then you need to explain how we are scum after the Shinori X Makaze Debacle.

I'm posting a lot because I'm vying for this and the more rapier posts the more flaws there are in the logic, and I think they are just cracking under pressure.

[Refa]

9 hours ago, Bluedoom said:

Two posts? Wdym? Are you specifically talking about in relation to his vote on you? Because I was thinking more, read back on all of his posts in the game in general and see if there was anything off.

Oh I see what you're saying. For me, it's been what's stood out to me are his early Shinori interaction, Makaze progression, Snike progression, Weapons' read, and then a scumread on me. I agreed with the Makaze scumread at the time, and overall didn't have any issues with their posts. What made me less sure was that the main people he was pushing were Snike and me (and I did not understand his push on me), who I was townreading and then me. I'm not great at reading Prims because his tone always reads genuine to me, so overall I did not have a solid opinion the slot.

9 hours ago, Prims said:

I forget, how are you reading Refa at this point, and are you comfortable with the wagon? FWIW I'm aware I haven't really been talking about Rapier and although I wasn't baiting this or anything it's really weird to me that Refa wasn't the one to ask me this question lol, to the point their first thought when I posted again with no read on Rapier was to ask me something totally unrelated, it reinforces my view of them as passive/docile scum who's just posting reads to get by

I honestly thought that you were townreading Rapier at the time, which is why I wasn't expecting a mention; probably mixed you up with someone else.

1 hour ago, BBM said:

We're down to ~12 hrs before lynch. I'd really rather not use the extension today because this phase is already longer than the rest and we got out of RVS pretty quickly, so at this point I'd rather have a flip than an extra day. Imo refa should claim

33 minutes ago, j00 said:

At least Refa had been a wagon for so long without suspicion really being removed from them so they should claim. Worst case scenario is SF being SF and scrambling during last minute deadline claims to turbo someone who turns out to be Doc.

Sure, I'm JoaT (1x Cop 1x Empower 1x Martyr). I crumbed this role by mentioning Cop in Kirby Mafia, Empower in NSFMM5, and Martyr when complaining about Smogon.

I can't reasonably engage with all of the content but my conclusions have been:

-I'm feeling good about Shinori. Several of their interactions/spats with people have read good to me and I don't think it's the type of interaction scum...wants to fake? In that it's a lot of time spent explaining his thought process and his reads but it's not really pushing an agenda. Admittedly I have been skimming a lot of their recent posts starting with the Makaze spat to get this out on time.

-I don't get Makaze's Bluedoom/Shinori reads. I like that he's pressuring them because they were in his PoE, but what's the thought process there? You're asking them questions but then responding "yeah that's what I thought you'd say as scum." What did you think they'd say as town????

@Percivalé Where's your head at regarding the current wagons?

@Rapier I've been bothered by you for quite some time before that. Again, I don't care that you have low energy. It's more, I don't get how on your initial read you could have come away with no opinions on me or my wagon (if it was just me, I don't think I'd mind). That's just inconceivable to me. I don't think I would ever vote you because you didn't pay enough attention to the game, it's just that you clearly were reading the game and came away with no conclusions. I don't like "What do you guys think of Refa's reasons for voting me at this point in the game? Again, I dislike how he didn't associate my actions with scum intent and the main reason for voting me was due to lack of content, not any content he found troubling. I'm also in the competing wagon, which is again convenient." this line from you, specifically the part about the competing wagon (you had 2 votes on you at the time of vote). It feels like you want people to vote me but you're not voting me yourself, which is so scummy. Read your read posts, some quick thoughts.

-Marth did vote me when I was his biggest scumread. He switched to Boron later.

-Your BBM read still confuses me, I'm pretty sure he explained the reasoning there but you're still bothered by it without responding to that.

-I don't think my stance has significantly changed on you in a while so it's weird to me that you're just now scumreading me

-SB hasn't posted in a hot minute so I'm not sure why you think their read on you would be updated.

@BT. I'm confused, I don't get why you want to vote Rapier? You mentioned saying the wagon is valid but I don't think you've ever posted about them before. The problem with saying I could have picked specific Rapier posts is it was like, every Rapier post for until after RVS until his vote on Weapons. There wasn't like a specific post I was like "oh this specifically is scummy" but a general trend. I was the one who got Makaze to change up how he interacted, so I think I know why he's playing differently from other people, but that didn't really factor into my scumread of him. At the time, I was frustrated with the slot because their posts didn't really progress my read or change anything, so there wasn't anything to engage him on. That's why I'm so confused when I get called out for this. I feel like the Marth progression should be obvious from my reads and my reaction to the wagon on him.

[Bluedoom]

Snike, I don't mind answering your post, but am I your top scumread? If no, who is? And if not me, who else do you want lynched today?

[Snike]

Just now, Rapier said:

Seems Town: Prims, Sunwoo

Likely Town: BBM

Neutral, leaning slightly towards town: Marth

Conflip on leaning slightly towards town/scum: Makaze

Neutral: Elie, j00, SB, via

Neutral, leaning very slightly towards scum: Cam

Leaning towards scum: Shinori

Seems scum: Weapons

 

I got to eat and go back to this juggernault of an assigned that's due today, plus a presentation I have to do tomorrow, so I don't think I can stay here for longer and I hope I can settle this somehow before leaving for good.

Makaze what are you reading on this? I  think marth on townlean is ???; Elie hasn't done enough to not be considered a  policy; coinflip for you reads as not wanting to engage, and I ****ing disagree  with neutscum leanscum;

 

@Bluedoom Yes. If not you, weapons or Rapier. That listpost is triggering me (Shinori is right) and Makaze is TOWN so Weapons consolidation claim is an L take and reads as taking advantage of the playstyle clashes.

[Makaze]

1 minute ago, Rapier said:

Seems Town: Prims, Sunwoo

Likely Town: BBM

Neutral, leaning slightly towards town: Marth

Conflip on leaning slightly towards town/scum: Makaze

Neutral: Elie, j00, SB, via

Neutral, leaning very slightly towards scum: Cam

Leaning towards scum: Shinori

Seems scum: Weapons

 

I got to eat and go back to this juggernault of an assigned that's due today, plus a presentation I have to do tomorrow, so I don't think I can stay here for longer and I hope I can settle this somehow before leaving for good.

I feel pretty good about these reads. I'd like you to read Snike's summary on me and see what you think, both what it says about Snike and if you agree with it\

- BT. is townie
- I have given BBM an easy out, and I am not comfortable passing them for more than 1 day based on interactions
- Shinori is squarely NAI
- Bluedoom is caught for the wrong reasons
- Snike is probably town, tone based only, but they have been skating my pretty easily and I'd like to see a pelt from them before I forget about them completely
- Elieson is probably mafia by PoE
- I am reconsiderig my Weapons/Refa read after this post in particular:

@WeaponsofMassConstruction Do you think that Refa feels like demotivated town?

[Percivalé]

not asleep yet because a personal thing happened but I'm curious how rapier came to a null read on me / has nothing to say at all when he seemed to be scum leaning me earlier and okay with pressing me/lining me up for D2

@RefaI'll get back to you on that I have some scumread vibes on rapier but most of it revolves around the thing between me&shinori  so it's not a strong foundation 

[Refa]

Why is Bluedoom caught for the wrong reasons?

[Makaze]

3 minutes ago, Snike said:

Makaze what are you reading on this? I  think marth on townlean is ???; Elie hasn't done enough to not be considered a  policy; coinflip for you reads as not wanting to engage, and I ****ing disagree  with neutscum leanscum;

 

@Bluedoom Yes. If not you, weapons or Rapier. That listpost is triggering me (Shinori is right) and Makaze is TOWN so Weapons consolidation claim is an L take and reads as taking advantage of the playstyle clashes.

I am pretty sure that Rapier is town for a lot of things, but mostly they don't make sense with a lot of teams on top of it feels like they are reading things genuinely even if I don't like what they have to say

I don't think they are lying even if I don't think their gamestate makes sense

Their content reminds me of me back in the day

[Percivalé]

I would like to know how rapier feels about my statement on the shinori vote earlier but there's so much going on right now I wouldn't entirely blame him if he just missed it/has other things on his mind 

[Shinori]

@MakazeDo you think anyone actually ever thinks me and you are Wolf X wolf after our debate? I think that list post should matter more and their overall reads/opinions on both myself and you because of it.  But if you think differently than me, could you explain?

[Makaze]

1 minute ago, Refa said:

Why is Bluedoom caught for the wrong reasons?

there were some posts a few pages ago where he responded to my question and then got mad when I didn't give him a pass for the answer, and it seems that he can't shake free of me more than he thinks I am scummy

[Makaze]

1 minute ago, Shinori said:

@MakazeDo you think anyone actually ever thinks me and you are Wolf X wolf after our debate? I think that list post should matter more and their overall reads/opinions on both myself and you because of it.  But if you think differently than me, could you explain?

I don't think that entertaining that is even a question worth considering, but I don't think that it makes someone scum just because they don't read in associations

[Makaze]

2 minutes ago, Makaze said:

there were some posts a few pages ago where he responded to my question and then got mad when I didn't give him a pass for the answer, and it seems that he can't shake free of me more than he thinks I am scummy

it seems he is mad that he can't free of me* missing some words here

[Snike]

1 minute ago, Makaze said:

I am pretty sure that Rapier is town for a lot of things, but mostly they don't make sense with a lot of teams on top of it feels like they are reading things genuinely even if I don't like what they have to say

I don't think they are lying even if I don't think their gamestate makes sense

Their content reminds me of me back in the day

OK. So you're arguing mess over scum. I can maybe see that but Shinori has a point about inconsistency.

What do you think about weapons consolidating on you? I doubt anyone read the whole ISO commentary yet so not going to hold that against 'em but uh I think it's a super bad take. Also, what did you mean by pelt?

As an aside, has anyone found the specific Refa crumbs? I tried to quickly ISO but could not find them.

[Refa]

1 minute ago, Makaze said:

there were some posts a few pages ago where he responded to my question and then got mad when I didn't give him a pass for the answer, and it seems that he can't shake free of me more than he thinks I am scummy

When I read this interaction, I didn't get how this solidified your scumread on Marth. If you still scumread Marth after that, I would get it but I don't get specifically how Marth's answer seemed scummy to you. If anything, it made me feel better on Marth. Specifically, him reconsidering his reads on me/Boron felt natural.

1 minute ago, Snike said:

As an aside, has anyone found the specific Refa crumbs? I tried to quickly ISO but could not find them.

(It was a joke, those were different mafia games and contexts)

I didn't believe there is any benefit to crumbing with this role, it'd just be more likely to get me killed.

[CT075]

plan A was to spend six hours typing up a post and getting increasingly frustrated that the pagecount increases faster than I can work through it, but I think we're too close to deadline for that to be a viable plan so I guess we're posting on vibes after al

I feel like Shinori/Makaze phrasing argument is kinda dumb? Shinori's frustration feels genuine and in a way that seems very unlikely to be faked as scum/scum? Makes me feel like it's likely to be town/town because I think scum!Shinori would be way more capable of blowing this off, especially since on skim it doesn't seem like anyone else was really putting pressure on Shinori so it'd be a really weird thunderdome as scum!Makaze?

[Makaze]

Just now, Refa said:

When I read this interaction, I didn't get how this solidified your scumread on Marth. If you still scumread Marth after that, I would get it but I don't get specifically how Marth's answer seemed scummy to you. If anything, it made me feel better on Marth. Specifically, him reconsidering his reads on me/Boron felt natural.

(It was a joke, those were different mafia games and contexts)

I didn't believe there is any benefit to crumbing with this role, it'd just be more likely to get me killed.

I felt like it was evidence but was not the main reason, I have been scumreading bluedoom the whole game

  

The one thing that makes me feel weird about Rapier is that their reads won't change for anything, and I would need some meta to know if thats a bad thing or if thats just how they are

Just now, Snike said:

OK. So you're arguing mess over scum. I can maybe see that but Shinori has a point about inconsistency.

What do you think about weapons consolidating on you? I doubt anyone read the whole ISO commentary yet so not going to hold that against 'em but uh I think it's a super bad take. Also, what did you mean by pelt?

As an aside, has anyone found the specific Refa crumbs? I tried to quickly ISO but could not find them.

Pelt is a term for a dead mafia from MU terminology, it has to do with werewolf instead of mafia

Weapons read on me makes no sense, now reading them again they have attempted to pocket me and still want to eliminate me, and I'm not getting fooled by interactions again when their reads change with the wind

I feel like Weapons is being opportunistic and asking questions that they do not care about, and I am tired of feeling weird and being pocketed half of the time. That question about Refa has me reeling specifically

[CT075]

need to re-eval weapons' mental boom, I like his response and mental booming is NAI but something about it feels a bit self-conscious? idk i'm flipflopping a lot on the slot

[Rapier]

19 minutes ago, Shinori said:

Nah.  If you think me X makaze are not Scum x scum this should not be that hard.

Based on this reads post your 'coin flip' could put both me and makaze in the scum territory.

And if you think we are both scum(which you stated you don't currently think we are scum x scum) then you need to explain how we are scum after the Shinori X Makaze Debacle.

I'm posting a lot because I'm vying for this and the more rapier posts the more flaws there are in the logic, and I think they are just cracking under pressure.

nah I'm cracking under reality (I wish I could ask for a sub irl)

I have a slight scumread on you given the latest interactions and I've been feeling Makaze is slightly more town but still very confusing to read and could go both ways. I didn't say I think you're scum and Makaze is town. I said you two are leaning towards those spectrums a little. I'm still not certain enough to read this association as "if one is scum, the other is definitely town, since I don't think both are scum". What I'm more certain of is that both of you can't be scum at the same time, so upon a flip I'd be more sure of your or Makaze's alignments.

[CT075]

Hey @Refa, convince me that Rapier is scum. People have been saying that your posts are empty for a while (although tbh I think a lot of it has been better), so do some synthesis for me

##vote: @Refa

[CT075]

currently re-reading bluedoom to see how i feel about the slot. someone else also asked me what in particular felt artificial about the refa wagon, after sleeping on it I think I'm going to retract that claim; people have been sus of Refa for longer than I realized

[Makaze]

4 minutes ago, Rapier said:

nah I'm cracking under reality (I wish I could ask for a sub irl)

I have a slight scumread on you given the latest interactions and I've been feeling Makaze is slightly more town but still very confusing to read and could go both ways. I didn't say I think you're scum and Makaze is town. I said you two are leaning towards those spectrums a little. I'm still not certain enough to read this association as "if one is scum, the other is definitely town, since I don't think both are scum". What I'm more certain of is that both of you can't be scum at the same time, so upon a flip I'd be more sure of your or Makaze's alignments.

Which read has changed the most for you and what has caused the change?

What be the biggest change that could happen to your view of the game?