Vigilante Mafia Game Thread - Game Over, LoVE wins!

[Sunwoo]

I'm here but I won't be around for long. Still should be back before deadline though.

So, uh, I don't really agree with Marth's reasons for voting Shinori and his posting just feels kinda lackluster to me. Like, I get that this is a slower game than the last one, but a bit more stuff has happened. Sounds like he mainly suspects Shinori and j00, and has been defending Bartozio, but I can't get too much of a feel for how he feels about other players. Like, in his response to Shinori I'm actually not certain whether he's townreading Bartizio and Elie or just presenting an argument for Shinori. I dunno, I guess his latest posts haven't really impressed me.

Willing to give Aster the benefit of the doubt for now, since her latest post suggests she's trying to get a grasp on things and apparently new members have a post limit or something? (I don't remember this being a thing back in the day, I blame bots.)

I'm not interested in lynching Shinori today. Or Eury.

Don't care for Bartozio's vote on Shinori. There's no explanation as to his priorities on lynch order. Like, I guess I'm kind of put off by the fact that he seems to be passive and not really participating? Again, I get being busy and on phone, but this just feels like a level of detachment that other busy/sick/on phone people are not demonstrating.

No issues with Jamie and Weapons, and am willing to give Fates some time to process all the interactions.

I'm heading out for a bit, but I will definitely be back before phase end.

[JamieIsBored]

59 minutes ago, Elieson said:

Also, to share; one thing is that Jamie has played a bunch on Bulbagarden, and I'm active enough over there; we can both agree and share that Bulba is notorious for featuring D1 No-Voters, as well as stupid shit like votable hosts and/or non-players. They tend to be from more meek players or more inexperienced players.

 

Or not submitting actions even when it's unlimited shot 

##Unvote: @DefyingFates
Eyes on Bluedoom atm as I said earlier. 

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I guess it's probably claim time

[Shinori]

2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

I've never played manual Werewolf/ Mafia before. In the versions I've played (e.g. Town of Salem), the first day is usually just for introductions so I was surprised that people were already voting for each other's heads.

I meant to comment on this earlier but:

Town of salem as a whole is the same style of game this is with one very key difference.

The amount of time we can talk.  With 2-3 days of communication, talking, and getting vibes on other players we can start to form things like associative reads(how players interact with other players), and with mindsets.

Sometimes communicating and talking is all it takes to find flaws in someone's logic or bad reasoning in how they are portraying others or the way they might be pushing votes.  With the added benefit of seeing things like associative, which as I stated was like seeing how people interact with each other.  In a STANDARD mafia game with one town and one scum team this can be a lot more damning.  For example the Elie/Eury debacle, in most cases with how hard they seemed to go at each other, if this were a standard game, they PROBABLY aren't scum buddies together.

I want to take this moment to ping @DefyingFates and @Aster:  Since both of you are newer players to forum mafia and this may be a lot to wrap your head around I will motion the both of you towards two things.

On this forum we have a thread called SF Mafia Info dump and resources.  It's pinned at the top of our SF mafia thread area.  There are some links there to small guide like things that players have made to try and help people learn parts of the game a bit better.  I would recommend potentially checking over some of that as it might help.

Specifically here is a link to Lord gaius guide to "surviving your first mafia game"

Alternatively I will also link a SEPERATE site that has some beginner guide notes stuff too.

https://www.zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/megathread-beginners-guide-to-playing-and-moderating-mafia-index-glossary-faqs-discussion.56679/

[JamieIsBored]

11 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Willing to give Aster the benefit of the doubt for now, since her latest post suggests she's trying to get a grasp on things and apparently new members have a post limit or something?

Yeah, it's locked to two posts a day.

@Aster If you talk with the host they might be able to help fix the post limit for you. It worked for me.

[Shinori]

Just now, JamieIsBored said:

Yeah, it's locked to two posts a day.

Yo that's dumb.

[JamieIsBored]

5 minutes ago, Shinori said:

ttps://www.zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/megathread-beginners-guide-to-playing-and-moderating-mafia-index-glossary-faqs-discussion.56679/

Holy smokes I play on that site. 

[BBM]

There were some post limit issues but they should be fixed for all the non-regulars as of a few hours ago.

Edited July 17 by BBM

[Bluedoom]

I really don't want to lynch bart or eury but they're also the only wagons being presented as counter to mine so idk what to do

 

Claiming alt day motivator: target someone during the day and they can use their action twice; can only be used on alternate days

[Bluedoom]

By action I mean that their night action gets doubled, no idea if there are other day actions but I don't affect them 

[DefyingFates]

##Unvote: @Bluedoom

Turns out bandwagoning feels bad in real life and in a virtual one, sorry Blue.

[JamieIsBored]

##Vote: @Bluedoom
We need a lynch today. Claim isn't really AI imo. Feels like the best option for now.

[CT075]

(I did promise a content post but life does not always go as planned)

okay @DefyingFates I defended you earlier but can you take a sec to give us your thoughts about the game, and who you might think is scum and why? doesn't need to be super detailed this close to deadline, but anything would help us

when I was new I hated people just asking me to talk with no further advice so here's some mafia 101 to help direct your thinking if you're interested:

Spoiler

- The job of a town player is to determine who is and is not town, and more importantly to convince the rest of town to vote for the non-town members.

- Next, the level 1 goal of a scum player is to cause town to vote for, in order, "not me" and then "not another scum player". The key difference is that scum knows who other scum is, which means that scum has more of an "agenda" than town.

So, the game ultimately boils down to spotting that difference between someone who knows ahead of time who they "should" be voting for, and who doesn't. People on different sites are going to have different takes on exactly how this should be accomplished, but on SF we tend to focus very strongly on the "convincing other people to vote for your scumreads" part. This is because it's surprisingly difficult to fake that you genuinely do not know someone's alignment in advance, so by making people lay out their reasons for their votes it's easy to catch that "secret scum agenda". Scum that are good at the game are good at making posts that look like they're trying to make town understand their point of view, but actually don't say much.

With the above in mind:

Does it make sense to you why town!Eury might believe that you are scum? Do you think that town!Eury's arguments with Elieson (and me, to a lesser extent) make sense from the perspective of helping town Find The Bad Guy?

What about the wagon on Bluedoom? Firstly, do people's reasons make sense? Secondly, regardless of whether the actual reasons they said are convincing, do you think that it's a "natural" progressin of what a town player might want, or do you think that someone is secretly trying to push a scum plan here (which is...)?

 

(It is worth noting that the above is a bit muddier because this game has two scum factions that interact in unknown ways, but I think it will be simpler to avoid thinking about that for today)

[DefyingFates]

10 minutes ago, CT075 said:

I defended you earlier but can you take a sec to give us your thoughts about the game, and who you might think is scum and why? doesn't need to be super detailed this close to deadline, but anything would help us

Thanks for being open with me about this. I admit I'm not too sure what's going on at the moment and I'm probably just a sap who feels bad about putting anyone on the spot, but I'll get back to you on this once I go through the last few pages with a fine toothcomb. I tried to echo what I thought the flow of conversation was pointing to at the time of my vote change. But... yeah, I need to read through the chat some more. Apologies and thank you everyone for your patience!

[CT075]

to make good on having things to say for myself, plan A was to wallpost but i don't think i'm going to have time for that so have some stream of consciousness

11 hours ago, Eurykins said:

I do not understand how this qualifies or reads as any form of scum attempt though, when in all reality: DF wagon will NEVER happen this day phase, and I made it CRYSTAL CLEAR of the intention and reason behind my post.

I disagree with the implicit assertion that the only possible scum intent for leaving your vote on someone is with the intention of bringing them to lynch, and lowkey I would expect you to know better (and thus the framing of my case as such feels illegitimate). For the sake of making it crystal clear, the scum intent I am (was) highlighting is that prodding a noob -> inactive slot is an easy way to look like you are actively scumhunting without needing to actually engage with the active player list.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

@Bluedoom can you use ability today?

[DefyingFates]

P.S. Part of my assessment was going off of what the regulars thought of each other's playstyles, which in hindsight means I was going off of blind faith too. As a newcomer I really shouldn't be doing that (or I should at least ask how people have played in the past, but I doubt that's something you can easily quantify).

[CT075]

and yeah I will consolidate on Marth if it comes to that but I want to hear more about this claim before I risk hammer (?)

11 hours ago, Eurykins said:

2. Is Grace's post (mentioning a towntell, but then stating that the logic was iffy) - Is this good or bad? Scum/town read overall? I'm not sure what the end result was of the post, and the vibe check it had in the end for you.

I thought it was clear that the reasoning was "I don't see why scum would stick their neck out like this to defend voting for the noob this early". The idea is that nobody would have questioned this post if it was made 24 hours later so forcing open that window early is maybe not the smoothest scum play. In hindsight I'm not sure I still feel this way (I didn't think of the fact that it's relatively cheap towncred for the buddies too), but RVS reads w/e.

[Eurykins]

1 minute ago, CT075 said:

to make good on having things to say for myself, plan A was to wallpost but i don't think i'm going to have time for that so have some stream of consciousness

I disagree with the implicit assertion that the only possible scum intent for leaving your vote on someone is with the intention of bringing them to lynch, and lowkey I would expect you to know better (and thus the framing of my case as such feels illegitimate). For the sake of making it crystal clear, the scum intent I am (was) highlighting is that prodding a noob -> inactive slot is an easy way to look like you are actively scumhunting without needing to actually engage with the active player list.

I understand what you were stating in reading with the "Scum attempt", however, I once again will clarify:
At the time, DF was posting (For example, when original vote occurred on Page 3), and again later. And as stated/proved in the posts before where I quoted DF post, NOTHING was said or done, so my vote remained on the slot until I further went thru the thread and posted what I did.

TL:DR I did not drop a vote on player slot that was noob/inactive by default. They had posted, responded to other posts that really said nothing about any reads/thoughts/votes/etc. and then opted to not partake elsewhere/went inactive thereafter. The fact that they were prodded for inactivity AFTER the fact making the slot fall more into the "INACTIVE PLAYER" has no bearing on why my vote was originally cast nor remained there, when it was not the original reason why I voted them.

On 7/16/2024 at 1:15 AM, Eurykins said:

Can't really say much about the vibes of DF- none of what was happening screamed super townie newbie vibes, null at best. Shinori was probably the one who got more "townie helping newbie" points from their interactions, not DF, and doesn't really do much to assist in gauging their scum/town vibes. The very first post to *not vote*/kill someone Day 1 was very likely a joke, but seems odd coming from a townsided opinion, as the lynch/day kill is the only means to remove town threats, outside of specific roles or such that can be done at night. Even for someone new to "Mafia" or any game like it (Town of Salem, AmongUs, and many other games that encompass the same overarching gameplay), the goal has always been extremely simple and straight forward- remove threats from town by voting/killing them before they kill you or you lose. Opting to initially not contribute seems kinda sketch- being careful is one thing, but distancing/removing yourself from contribution is another. 

#Vote @DefyingFates

Tell me your thoughts- what are you considering when it comes to approaching this game? 

Anything crossing your mind or catching your attention with any of the posts? Are you looking for someone/something in particular to dig into?

It was the fact that they openly stated zero desire to partake or contribute anything towards the D1 vote/lynch, out the gate. Period.
I asked why, and wanted more responses/insight as for the mentality/justification behind it. That is all.

[Eurykins]

Side note, I'm heading back to work (lunch break over) and while I should be "present" for end of day phase, I cannot promise keeping a sharp eye during working hours. 

[CT075]

4 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

j00 I’m okay with for now, I think she said something hypocritical which gives her plus points in my book.

eh????

WRT Marth claim I agree that it is NAI and I don't think it's really worth preserving him over.

[CT075]

how long do we have for hammer? is there any chance we can ask marth to empower someone of town's choice (let alone settle on that choice) and have him use the action now?

[CT075]

for that matter, can anyone confirm whether Marth has used his role yet?

what are current votals? L-2?

[CT075]

1 minute ago, CT075 said:

for that matter, can anyone confirm whether Marth has used his role on them?

 

[CT075]

marth i don't know how the lock-in works but if you're town and there's any chance that you'll miss hammer please just motivate someone