Elieson Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 5 minutes ago, CT075 said: but really, I do not know what happened in that neighbor convo, and you seem to be making a lot of assumptions that come down to "well BBM wouldn't change the mechanics of the role without telling us" or "there is no universe in which two unknowing scum members couldn't figure out that the other is, in fact, scum" You're making an equal number of assumptions about both how my claimed role works, and how neighbors work. Are you able to cite me one game that neighbors have known anything about their neighbro regarding other roles and/or factions, like a SK+Scum neighbor combo or another Multiball setup? @Sunwoo you're the SF historian; you could do this too probably? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 12 minutes ago, Elieson said: Do you think that it's more likely that I Idled my shot? Do you think that it's more likely that Town!Boron & Scum!Me both opted to shoot Bartozio last night? I believe a third option: That you are scum, and giving away your shot cancels your factional kill, which makes sense both from a balance perspective. Obviously FYPOV you wouldn't accept this line of reasoning, but it's certainly the one that I'm voting under. I believe that you're scum for reasons other than rolespec and the claim results -- I think that your end-of-phase last-second vote for not-Marth is telling, and that your content since hasn't actually inspired me to think that you're leading town in the right direction. I am of the opinion that there is way too much baseless certainty in everyone's roles/claims, how the roles work/interact and so on and that everyone is trying to solve the game from night actions alone at this point, which is not possible unless someone has spotted a liar (I haven't). I think that by reducing everything down to just the rolespec and night actions while mostly ignoring the actual rest of the things said in the game, you're setting up a scenario where you're never under much scrutiny and can just set up two lynches and gg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 Just now, CT075 said: I believe a third option: That you are scum, and giving away your shot cancels your factional kill, which makes sense both from a balance perspective. Obviously FYPOV you wouldn't accept this line of reasoning, but it's certainly the one that I'm voting under. I believe that you're scum for reasons other than rolespec and the claim results -- I think that your end-of-phase last-second vote for not-Marth is telling, and that your content since hasn't actually inspired me to think that you're leading town in the right direction. So to add to your thoughts, you think that I'm scum neighbor, and that I've known that Aster has been scum on the opposite faction this entire time, and opted not to give employ some sort of faction-to-faction alliance and opted not to give Aster a gun on Nights 1 or 2 with which to terrorize the game with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 Just now, Elieson said: and opted not to give Aster a gun on Nights 1 or 2 with which to terrorize the game with? i mean, I believe that this would result in you giving up control of your own factional kill, so yes, I do think this is reasonable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 minute ago, Elieson said: and opted not to give employ some sort of faction-to-faction alliance what reason would I have to believe that no faction-faction alliance was made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 2 minutes ago, CT075 said: That you are scum, and giving away your shot cancels your factional kill, which makes sense both from a balance perspective. I don't think Eury/Aster had any role power which implied that it actively made their side weaker. It'd be rough for a scumteam to inherently rely on another scumteam to really get anything out of its abilities. Dang though. Keep your vote on me then I guess. Makes me wish I gave my gun out in an earlier phase so that we could've had a 3-kill night and then this theory would be immediately debunked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 i cant help but think scum/scum neighbor is bastard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 yeah, i wish you'd done that too because it's really easy to say that now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 like i'm trying to make as few assumptions about the setup as possible there are basically only three scenarios here, given a flipped scum neighbor already: - The other neighbor is town, alive, and hasn't already said so. At this point it has to be Fates, if anyone. - The other neighbor is town, dead, and it just isnt flipped. This seems even more bastard - The other neighbor is scum. I do not know whether they knew each other's alignments, but in this scenario the scum teams were objectively talking to each other, they just may not have known that the other is actually scum. pretty much all this "well I don't think that aster and her counterpart knew the other was scum" comes down to is to discredit whatever associatives aster might come up with. considering that nobody has actually found anything, this seems like muddying the waters for no reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 there is the fourth option of "lol it's a 1-person neighborhood" but i think we can ignore that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 I want to say for the record that I think Elie is scum regardless of whether the remaining neighbor is town after all. I do happen to believe that Elie is the remaining scum neighbor, and in fact it makes more sense if Elie didn't actually know that Aster was scum pre-flip -- that's why Elie wouldn't have given her the gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 *but even if god or BBM came down from the heavens to proclaim that Elie wasn't actually the other neighbor I'd still be voting for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieIsBored Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 46 minutes ago, CT075 said: Elie, you seem weirdly confident that the neighbors weren't told that the other member is scum to begin with. Do you know something you're not telling me? That's not what a neighbour is. Also it might not actually be neighbours in the sense that we're taking it. The whole role to me looks like BPV neighbour, i.e they share a BPV with another player. Should this be the case, this could explain why Aster's neighbour has yet to claim, either they're town hoping for scum to shoot them and not kill them or they're scum trying to hide from and Elieson vigi shot. I'm assuming that Multi-hooker is our blocker here, and then the BPV neighbour is seperate please correct me if they're all a part of the same role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 Just now, CT075 said: what reason would I have to believe that no faction-faction alliance was made? If an early faction-faction alliance was made, then I suppose it would've backed up me: During D1: Defending Marth from the moment the he started posting During D1 and also D2: Taking my vote off of Eury and never putting it back onto Eury and also voting alongside Eury or Aster During D3: Defending Aster If scum-scum neighbors exist and didn't know that they were scum... IDK man, I don't know why Neighbors would even say one word to each other unless they had some knowledge of each other, and given Eury+Aster's flip, I'd have to be scum with an information role who targeted one of them during the game to know that they're worth speaking to, else I would have no reason to talk to them ever OR I started with knowledge of Aster as scum and Aster started off knowing I was scum and we both chose to just let Aster melt on D3 instead of privately backing each other up at all. 2 minutes ago, CT075 said: yeah, i wish you'd done that too because it's really easy to say that now Boron said it first. I really want Fates to get in here and clear up if they're actually a neighbor. I'm holding off on my vote until Fates is abundantly clear that they aren't Aesthetic+Neighbor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 me and my best buds we live behind the same bulletproof vest massclaim is confusing, i think we have to win the game the old fashioned way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 tbh i think sharing a bpv with another player is even more suspicious that would actually solve our cross-team power parity conundrum pretty nicely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 Just now, CT075 said: tbh i think sharing a bpv with another player is even more suspicious that would actually solve our cross-team power parity conundrum pretty nicely So scumteam shares one BPV, and you just have another BPV because Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 1 minute ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said: massclaim is confusing, i think we have to win the game the old fashioned way but yeah i think this too and nothing about the claim makes me think that it's not elie after all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 i don't really think elie is scum at this point, based on play alone i do agree neighbor is probably just not traditional neighbor in some sense (i was wondering if it could be scum/scum but they have like an anon chat or something) but it does feel like we probably aren't gonna get anything out of this spec (it is interesting though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 Just now, Elieson said: 1 minute ago, CT075 said: So scumteam shares one BPV, and you just have another BPV because vote for me, coward, at this point you've done all but declare that you think i'm the one lying about my role you can ask someone to shoot me tonight if you want to test it, i'm not going to confirm whether or not I'm idling because I don't want scum to know whether i'm going to have info during -YLO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 im honestly most suspicious of jamie at this point. it could still be df but that's just kind of boring; i'd rather think of more fun theories. jamie has been lowkey coasting for a while, i feel like most of their content has been more about mechanics and stuff, ie easily fakeable as scum and i don't really remember much in the way of analysis of people's play from them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 Since I've already given out one of my two guns, I'm a logical lynch option for today, but I'm just as logical of a shot option today. 1 minute ago, CT075 said: vote for me, coward, at this point you've done all but declare that you think i'm the one lying about my role you can ask someone to shoot me tonight if you want to test it, i'm not going to confirm whether or not I'm idling because I don't want scum to know whether i'm going to have info during -YLO If Fates claims to be neighbor after the clarity of the past 2 pages' worth of discussion, then it's gonna add a lot to the plate. I'm also still mixed on Jamie's Vampirizer claim, partly because it's not verifiable, and partly because I think the name is goofy and not really defining what it is. All that has to happen is for a Scum!Jamie to not shoot Boron for a while, and they're in the clear for long enough to matter. To be clear, I'm love Gunsmith, which at least makes sense with what my role does somewhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 7 minutes ago, CT075 said: vote for me, coward, at this point you've done all but declare that you think i'm the one lying about my role The only lie would be if you were neighbor in tandem. 5 minutes ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said: im honestly most suspicious of jamie at this point. it could still be df but that's just kind of boring; i'd rather think of more fun theories. jamie has been lowkey coasting for a while, i feel like most of their content has been more about mechanics and stuff, ie easily fakeable as scum and i don't really remember much in the way of analysis of people's play from them On 7/17/2024 at 12:42 AM, Shinori said: Mind meld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieIsBored Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 17 minutes ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said: me and my best buds we live behind the same bulletproof vest ? Is this a claim or you messing around? 8 minutes ago, Elieson said: I'm also still mixed on Jamie's Vampirizer claim, partly because it's not verifiable, and partly because I think the name is goofy and not really defining what it is. All that has to happen is for a Scum!Jamie to not shoot Boron for a while, and they're in the clear for long enough to matter. To be clear, I'm love Gunsmith, which at least makes sense with what my role does somewhat. I'm LoVE Reviver, I like calling it Vampiriser because a) it's more thematic b) I can't read and thought it was called that and c) I "infect" someone for it to work. ##Vote: @DefyingFates Get paranoid all you want about me, but logic dicates it has to be Fates. Asectic matches what Eury had as the passive role for a scum. Fates has been called out in thread a lot, all of those reasons still stand. Matches Marth's partner with my theory here. Fates > Weapons > Cam > Elieson > Sunwoo, there's really nothing else to say. We can vote Fates, who is almost certainly scum, or we can all talk in circles and tinfoil eachother until we all get too antagonistic with eachother to vote out the obvious scum. Either way after this phase, it's likely I'll be mech cleared, either by my death or Sunwoo's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 3 minutes ago, JamieIsBored said: ? Is this a claim or you messing around? I'm LoVE Reviver, I like calling it Vampiriser because a) it's more thematic b) I can't read and thought it was called that and c) I "infect" someone for it to work. ##Vote: @DefyingFates Get paranoid all you want about me, but logic dicates it has to be Fates. Asectic matches what Eury had as the passive role for a scum. Fates has been called out in thread a lot, all of those reasons still stand. Matches Marth's partner with my theory here. Fates > Weapons > Cam > Elieson > Sunwoo, there's really nothing else to say. We can vote Fates, who is almost certainly scum, or we can all talk in circles and tinfoil eachother until we all get too antagonistic with eachother to vote out the obvious scum. Either way after this phase, it's likely I'll be mech cleared, either by my death or Sunwoo's. would you say your play this game has been definitively townie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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