OMG it's a tier list

[Fenrir]

And for what it's worth, Mist is easier to shove, and she still has move over him, even if it's not that big a difference. And even if Mist doesn't have it much better, Rhys gets doubled by the world.

Water and +1 move < Greater magic for physic range and healing, as well as more chip damage.

If i ruled this forum no one would go on it durr Mist would be in lower-mid.

[Florete]

But what is the value of Rhys' Physic range anyway? Depending on how much you used in 2-E you may only have a few uses left (I usually use at least 5, often more), and then you can't even get another one for a while, though I don't remember off hand when exactly. I find his chip damage to be more novelty than actually useful.

As for ledges in 3-4: One chapter, and somehow I doubt it's going to be so much of a problem to have Mist move a slight bit closer given the tight spaces you get in. If healing in itself is being undermined so much I don't see how half of a single map is even worth mentioning. Anywhere where Physic range isn't really helping Rhys' case (which is like, most of the time), Mist is winning.

[-Cynthia-]

Physicing is one of the only times Rhys/Mist can really be efficient IMO (past 3-P/3-1 where Rhys is better due to higher chip). Using 1 range staves with Rhys/Mist just isn't worth the effort of protecting them, usually losing a player phase with the Vulnerary/Concotion is better than having to position our combat units so that no physical enemies can reach Rhys or Mist.

[grandjackal]

Rhys's value with extra range on his Physic is that he's more able to heal frontliners like Titania and Haar, though I would only venture this is truly useful for 3-3 or 3-4.

[RNG Princess]

You can steal physic staves along the way with Heather + disarm but you're only depending on 1 (15 uses max). I'm pretty sure physic staff is amazing for 3-10 and 3-11, and both Mist and Rhys can share the staff or not I make my healers share physic staves.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[dondon151]

But what is the value of Rhys' Physic range anyway? Depending on how much you used in 2-E you may only have a few uses left (I usually use at least 5, often more), and then you can't even get another one for a while, though I don't remember off hand when exactly. I find his chip damage to be more novelty than actually useful.

Unless you're training in 2-E, you shouldn't use Physic at all. If you go for a 3 turn clear like nflchamp or I did, you don't have to use it at all, either. Just slap it on Brom or Neph or someone who will join the GMs in 3-2 and they'll have a fresh Physic all to themselves.

As for ledges in 3-4: One chapter, and somehow I doubt it's going to be so much of a problem to have Mist move a slight bit closer given the tight spaces you get in. If healing in itself is being undermined so much I don't see how half of a single map is even worth mentioning. Anywhere where Physic range isn't really helping Rhys' case (which is like, most of the time), Mist is winning.

I disagree. The only characters that actually went to the northern part of 3-3 were Haar, Gatrie, Oscar, and Titania. Now, Oscar isn't exactly the most durable one of the bunch, so he will need Physic support. For 3-4, good luck getting Mist all the way up to the second set of ledges by turn 3. You probably won't even have all of the enemies there cleared. The thunder sages don't move and the rest of the enemies need to expend 3 mov to descend the gaps, so Rhys can stand 1 layer lower and Physic with relative impunity. If he's threatened, just rescue him away with Titania and Oscar.

Rhys and Physic are also good in a pinch if Ulki or Janaff get hurt in 3-7 (which happens if they get attacked by the BK or if you left Lughnasadh on Leo), or if any units get hurt in 3-8 and 3-10. Since the latter are rout maps, you don't want Mist or Rhys to get in the way during enemy phases.

You get 45 total uses of Physic from 2-E up until 4-E given that you don't steal any more along the way. That should be enough to last you the entire time.

[eclipse]

You can steal physic staves along the way with Heather + disarm but you're only depending on 1 (15 uses max). I'm pretty sure physic staff is amazing for 3-10 and 3-11, and both Mist and Rhys can share the staff or not I make my healers share physic staves.

There's one that's fairly easy to steal on 3-10 (the Bishop holding it will change to Ellight when there's no one left to heal).

[Zkirsche]

When you think about it, Soren(T)'s superier chip damage is probably worth more than Mists rare heal + pathetic chip damage.

In any case, Mist(T) does not belong in upper mid if Mist (N) is in mid.

[Colonel M]

Mist (T) and Mist (N) are probably better to be counted as the same character (so Mist N/T).

[Fenrir]

But what is the value of Rhys' Physic range anyway? Depending on how much you used in 2-E you may only have a few uses left (I usually use at least 5, often more), and then you can't even get another one for a while, though I don't remember off hand when exactly. I find his chip damage to be more novelty than actually useful.

As for ledges in 3-4: One chapter, and somehow I doubt it's going to be so much of a problem to have Mist move a slight bit closer given the tight spaces you get in. If healing in itself is being undermined so much I don't see how half of a single map is even worth mentioning. Anywhere where Physic range isn't really helping Rhys' case (which is like, most of the time), Mist is winning.

Physic range is pretty big to me, if Haar get critted on and no one can reach him, but he can kill boss and end the stage. The boss however hits a 15 on haar and haar has like 10hp left, this is a scenario for the physic.

3-4, 1 chapter where Rhys kills mist, along with the others of just beating her.

and bold, How??? what makes mist and her 10 less magic better than Rhys?

Mist (T) and Mist (N) are probably better to be counted as the same character (so Mist N/T).

That is good, Narga mentioned this before, but Mist(n) might move down, and mist(t) could go to top of mid.

[RNG Princess]

Theres no way Mist (N) = Mist (T)

Mist(T) has 15 magic and 17 speed, she has no issues compared to her non-transfered self the only enemies always doubling her are SMS. She'll probably be more durable than Soren anyway with a better speed growth rate and move.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Colonel M]

She's a healer. +2 Mag and Spd is irrelevant to her performance (healbotting). The only thing that changes is +1 Physic Range and she escapes being doubled, but under most scenarios it is unhealthy to get your healer attacked anyway.

I'd make a bigger deal of the seperation if Rhys > Mist, but of course there's a lot of confusion as how Mist (N) < Marcia, Taur, Brom < Mist (T). Already this makes very little sense to me.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Colonel M

[Shadow Mir]

But the real question here is: What is Tauroneo doing below Transfer Brom??

[Interceptor]

Looks like we're not going to avoid this healer bullshit. The difference between the two of them is entirely on the margins, but there is a difference between them. Advantages that Mist has over Rhys:

• Water is better than Fire. They both give +ATK, but +DEF beats a minor HIT boost.
  
• Mist has her own promotion item. The chance of Rhys getting to third tier are non-existent. This gives her stat boosts and Canto.
  
• Mist's Bond supports are better. Rhys and Mist share +5 Titania, but Mist can make Ike an honorary Swordmaster (+10 crit/dodge), and Boyd is slightly better as well with Killer and forges. The Jill bond is probably not relevant.
  
• Mist is easier to move with scrubs, and easier to Rescue. Rhys cannot be shoved by anyone with less than 7 con, which includes Soren, Rolf, and untransformed Janaff. He also cannot be rescued by anyone with less than 11 wt, which means Mia, Rolf,. and untransformed Janaff cannot bail him out.
  
• Mist is +1 MV over him in tier 2 (in tier 3 it's a +3 MV blowout). She's basically superior at 1-range shenanigans, because of an easier time keeping up with the main force (Recover eliminates the MAG differential). This additionally makes it easier to keep in range of her support partner.
  
• She's more durable because of having an easier time getting out of the doubled/OHKOed danger zone. This is especially true for the (T) version. If anyone complains that healers shouldn't get attacked, I will ignore you. It's obviously undesirable to have healers taking hits, especially in Routs. But. When the shit hits the fan it's better to have someone who can be exposed to one moderately dangerous enemy, than someone who can't be exposed to anything except a mage.
  

On the other side of the coin, advantages that Rhys has over Mist:

• +10 MAG over Mist at base. This makes no difference for anything in Part 3 except +5 to Physic range and +10 to healing, but it's something. In Part 4, the extra range is diminished due to Mist's MAG closing the gap, but he'll still have better reach with Rescue etc.
  
• Better at accurate weakening for the most part, due to hitting RES with a good MAG stat.
  
• access to Purge for Part 4, maybe (has to share with Sanaki and Micaiah).
  
• Rhys can go to a different army than Greil's.
  

That's really about it, as far as I can think of. I personally come down on the side of Mist > Rhys, I find her advantages more useful over the long term.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Interceptor

[dondon151]

I am not convinced. Mist may have a lot of minor advantages going for her, but they are ultimately not important as Rhys's sole advantage in Physic.

Advantages that Mist has over Rhys:

• Water is better than Fire. They both give +ATK, but +DEF beats a minor HIT boost.
  
• Mist has her own promotion item. The chance of Rhys getting to third tier are non-existent. This gives her stat boosts and Canto.
  
• Mist's Bond supports are better. Rhys and Mist share +5 Titania, but Mist can make Ike an honorary Swordmaster (+10 crit/dodge), and Boyd is slightly better as well with Killer and forges. The Jill bond is probably not relevant.
  
• Mist is easier to move with scrubs, and easier to Rescue. Rhys cannot be shoved by anyone with less than 7 con, which includes Soren, Rolf, and untransformed Janaff. He also cannot be rescued by anyone with less than 11 wt, which means Mia, Rolf,. and untransformed Janaff cannot bail him out.
  
• Mist is +1 MV over him in tier 2 (in tier 3 it's a +3 MV blowout). She's basically superior at 1-range shenanigans, because of an easier time keeping up with the main force (Recover eliminates the MAG differential). This additionally makes it easier to keep in range of her support partner.
  
• She's more durable because of having an easier time getting out of the doubled/OHKOed danger zone. This is especially true for the (T) version. If anyone complains that healers shouldn't get attacked, I will ignore you. It's obviously undesirable to have healers taking hits, especially in Routs. But. When the shit hits the fan it's better to have someone who can be exposed to one moderately dangerous enemy, than someone who can't be exposed to anything except a mage.

- Water being a better affinity than Fire is minor. If the opposing affinity is +def, Mist only yields +1 at B and A. The advantages of +def are situational at best, especially in quantities of only +1; +atk is more important and is a property that both affinities posess.

- You said yourself that Mist should not be promoted until after 4-4 unless you want her to be stuck on the bottom floor for half the map.

- Which of these bonds are relevant when putting Mist adjacent to any combat unit will direct enemy units to her instead of the intended combat unit?

- Under the assumption that the player does not make mistakes, being able to rescue Mist but not Rhys is not important unless we are transporting either of them, and neither of them weigh more than a horse. Rhys's extra Physic range is more forgiving for not being able to be shoved by some characters, although he can still be shoved by most characters.

- +1 mov in tier 2 is negated by +5 staff range, and like you said, Mist shouldn't promote until after 4-4. So she wins for 4-E.

- Durability has so far been a non-issue because neither should be attacked.

On the other side of the coin, advantages that Rhys has over Mist:

• +10 MAG over Mist at base. This makes no difference for anything in Part 3 except +5 to Physic range and +10 to healing, but it's something. In Part 4, the extra range is diminished due to Mist's MAG closing the gap, but he'll still have better reach with Rescue etc.
  
• Better at accurate weakening for the most part, due to hitting RES with a good MAG stat.
  
• access to Purge for Part 4, maybe (has to share with Sanaki and Micaiah).
  
• Rhys can go to a different army than Greil's.
  

That's really about it, as far as I can think of. I personally come down on the side of Mist > Rhys, I find her advantages more useful over the long term.

The first one is really the only thing that matters. Think for a moment about how situationally useful either of these advantages is. When do you need to have Mist rescued by a non-canto unit or untransformed Janaff? When do you need to have her shoved by Soren or Rolf but you can't shove Rhys? When do you need the extra +1 def from her pocket support (which requires Savior to be reserved to her supporter anyway, and is not an option on half of the part 3 maps)? When do you need Rhys to heal one of your allies from 11 tiles away when you aren't able to or should not be healing from 6 tiles away?

Edited July 13, 2010 by dondon151

[Florete]

Unless you're training in 2-E, you shouldn't use Physic at all. If you go for a 3 turn clear like nflchamp or I did, you don't have to use it at all, either. Just slap it on Brom or Neph or someone who will join the GMs in 3-2 and they'll have a fresh Physic all to themselves.

Okay, someone remind me when this list has ever assumed a 2-3 turn clear of 2-E. You can't, because it never has. We only mention it as a partial advantage for people like Haar who can actually pull it off, not whenever it's convenient for a specific character or argument.

Rhys and Physic are also good in a pinch if Ulki or Janaff get hurt in 3-7 (which happens if they get attacked by the BK or if you left Lughnasadh on Leo), or if any units get hurt in 3-8 and 3-10. Since the latter are rout maps, you don't want Mist or Rhys to get in the way during enemy phases.

Okay, but now here's the thing: Mist can use Physic, too. By the time we're at 3-8 or 3-10, she'll probably have at least 8 Physic range. If she is a full 8 spaces from the unit being healed, do you really think that's putting her in range of enemies? Honestly, I rarely even need Physic at all to keep my healer(s) safe, how is 8 spaces away going to be at all dangerous? Yes, Rhys' 12 is better. However, at this length, I fail to see how 4 spaces is a significant advantage.

You get 45 total uses of Physic from 2-E up until 4-E given that you don't steal any more along the way. That should be enough to last you the entire time.

Wait, where the hell are all these extra uses coming from? You're not talking about the two the DB gets in 3-6 and 3-13, are you? The 3-13 one is obviously off limits, and I think they need the 3-6 one more than we do as well. Given how fast you are apparently completing these maps, if you want to steal more Physics I'd like you to tell me how you can keep Heather safe but not Mist (or Rhys).

and bold, How??? what makes mist and her 10 less magic better than Rhys?

I was going to respond, but Interceptor already did.

- Which of these bonds are relevant when putting Mist adjacent to any combat unit will direct enemy units to her instead of the intended combat unit?

There are plenty of ways to avoid that. She can move in to heal someone else and the person with the Bond comes up next to her and kills the enemy, or it's at some sort of choke point without any 2 range enemies. I don't use Bonds much myself, but it's not as though she can't put hers to use at all.

- +1 mov in tier 2 is negated by +5 staff range, and like you said, Mist shouldn't promote until after 4-4. So she wins for 4-E.

That only lasts as long as you actually have Physic.

- Durability has so far been a non-issue because neither should be attacked.

The shit? The only reason I put Mist(T) in Upper Mid at all is because of extra durability due to +2 Speed. The Mag had nothing to do with it.

When do you need to have her shoved by Soren or Rolf but you can't shove Rhys?

How about when Soren or Rolf (or one of the others that can't Shove Rhys) are the only ones available to do the Shoving? Given the nature of Soren and Rolf's usefulness compared to others, I wouldn't say it's very unlikely.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Red Fox of Fire

[Interceptor]

I am not convinced. Mist may have a lot of minor advantages going for her, but they are ultimately not important as Rhys's sole advantage in Physic.

I already said that the difference between them was on the margins, and in fact chose that wording for a specific reason, so it's a waste of keystrokes to complain to me about how such and such a point is minor. You may as well be grousing that I wrote it in English.

- Water is better than Fire. End of story, fin. If you are saying "the difference is minor", you are saying "I agree with everything you said, Interceptor". DEF is situational? HIT is more situational. Unless you disagree with that, what's the problem?

- Mist being stuck on the bottom floor in 4-4 because of an early promo just means that you choose between Canto in 4-1, or second floor Mist in 4-4. Rhys has no such choice, this is an advantage no matter which way you slice it.

- Bonds are obviously relevant in situations where Mist would not be attacked, or where we don't care if she's attacked. Yours is a question that basically answers itself. Mist's Bond support with Ike can make him immune for a Thunder Mage crit, for example, and her bonus to someone like Boyd would be relevant in the situation where enemies can get to him, but not to her. It doesn't even need to take place on Enemy Phase, this is a Player Phase bonus as well.

- Having to rescue a healer does not imply that the player made a mistake. It implies that the player wants to get the healer out of harm's way, or otherwise move them, which you'll note is not the same thing. I can have Mist run up to heal someone, and then have someone pick her up or shove her out of the way.

- +1 MV in tier 2 is not negated by staff range. Mist can more easily keep up with her support partner, Physic doesn't negate that at all.

- Durability is not a non-issue. This is something that I'd never expect to hear from the Pope, who leaves few tactical maneuvers off the table. The fact that I can intentionally expose Mist to an enemy, but not Rhys, is an advantage for Mist.

Physic healing range is an advantage for Rhys, no doubt about it. That's why I put it on the list. But let's not blow it out of proportion: Mist's advantages are very minor, but she has several of them. Rhys basically has just one thing that counts, and it only matters when it matters. Anything in Mist's reach, and within the bounds of her MAG to acceptably heal, is no advantage for him at all.

The points about 3-3 or 3-4 are fairly made for what those are worth (except where they aren't, like in the cases where Mist is in range or self-healing is preferable in the first place) but after that you have to struggle to find anything. You had to bail out Ulki/Janaff in 3-7, but the reason that you had to push them to begin with is because your beorcs are so terrible that you need S-Strike on your hawk's bases, ASAP -- that's not normal. For a normal playthrough, with a leisurely stroll down the center for a CEXP buffet, nobody is outside of Mist's reach.

Rhys needs Physic healing to be pretty important in order to be better than Mist, and I don't buy it.

[dondon151]

Okay, someone remind me when this list has ever assumed a 2-3 turn clear of 2-E. You can't, because it never has. We only mention it as a partial advantage for people like Haar who can actually pull it off, not whenever it's convenient for a specific character or argument.

Well, why wouldn't you? More EXP? If you're not 3 turning 2-E, why do you need to use Physic when Elincia has Mend, 9 move, and flying?

Okay, but now here's the thing: Mist can use Physic, too. By the time we're at 3-8 or 3-10, she'll probably have at least 8 Physic range. If she is a full 8 spaces from the unit being healed, do you really think that's putting her in range of enemies? Honestly, I rarely even need Physic at all to keep my healer(s) safe, how is 8 spaces away going to be at all dangerous? Yes, Rhys' 12 is better. However, at this length, I fail to see how 4 spaces is a significant advantage.

Let me point out that 16 mag is 8/0 on average. When you are a) not healing every turn and B) gain 12 EXP at best per staff use (since we don't use Physic unless absolutely necessary), Mist is likely to not even have gained 700 EXP. She needs 59 Mends. For reference, I took 40 total turns from 3-P to 3-7, inclusive. Mist (T) is a slightly different story.

Wait, where the hell are all these extra uses coming from? You're not talking about the two the DB gets in 3-6 and 3-13, are you? The 3-13 one is obviously off limits, and I think they need the 3-6 one more than we do as well. Given how fast you are apparently completing these maps, if you want to steal more Physics I'd like you to tell me how you can keep Heather safe but not Mist (or Rhys).

I think you misunderstood. That statement was in response to people claiming that we couldn't afford to spend Physic uses willy-nilly in part 3. And we aren't, but that's beside the point - if you're concerned about uses for part 4, I was simply pointing out that you have at least 3 staves total, and very likely 4 because there's a very easily stealable one in 3-10.

There are plenty of ways to avoid that. She can move in to heal someone else and the person with the Bond comes up next to her and kills the enemy, or it's at some sort of choke point without any 2 range enemies. I don't use Bonds much myself, but it's not as though she can't put hers to use at all.

So when Mist raises Boyd's Killer Axe crit from 28 to 33 for a total of about 12 player phase attacks at maximum (unless we intend to use Boyd), is that a big deal? Notwithstanding the fact that Titania or Haar are better for the Killer Axe.

That only lasts as long as you actually have Physic.

If you didn't notice, I had 10/15 uses going into 3-8. Those 5 uses, though few, were lifesavers and made strategies possible.

How about when Soren or Rolf (or one of the others that can't Shove Rhys) are the only ones available to do the Shoving? Given the nature of Soren and Rolf's usefulness compared to others, I wouldn't say it's very unlikely.

For me, it has never happened. Now, this doesn't mean that it won't happen ever, but the magnitude of such a circumstance is little compared to when you need to Physic.

I already said that the difference between them was on the margins, and in fact chose that wording for a specific reason, so it's a waste of keystrokes to complain to me about how such and such a point is minor. You may as well be grousing that I wrote it in English.

My entire point is that you can add 1 99 times and still not exceed 100.

The points about 3-3 or 3-4 are fairly made for what those are worth (except where they aren't, like in the cases where Mist is in range or self-healing is preferable in the first place) but after that you have to struggle to find anything. You had to bail out Ulki/Janaff in 3-7, but the reason that you had to push them to begin with is because your beorcs are so terrible that you need S-Strike on your hawk's bases, ASAP -- that's not normal. For a normal playthrough, with a leisurely stroll down the center for a CEXP buffet, nobody is outside of Mist's reach.

Why wouldn't you give them as much strike WEXP as possible in a normal playthrough?

Rhys needs Physic healing to be pretty important in order to be better than Mist, and I don't buy it.

Haar needs Celerity + Savior + Master Crown, Mia needs Adept + Steel Sword forge + Ike support, Titania needs BEXP + Speedwings + Hammer. Same deal.

It looks like it's up to my videos to show Rhys > Mist.

Edited July 13, 2010 by dondon151

[nflchamp]

Haar needs Celerity + Savior + Master Crown, Mia needs Adept + Steel Sword forge + Ike support, Titania needs BEXP + Speedwings + Hammer. Same deal.

This isn't about who gets resources, it's about how important they are. No one is saying Rhys can't use Physic. They're saying Physic isn't that important. Unless extra physic range or healing is important, Rhys is worse than Mist because of the multitude of small things going for Mist.

[Interceptor]

(since we don't use Physic unless absolutely necessary)

Why are you saying that we don't use the staff unless absolutely necessary, when there's ample evidence that we couldn't break the staff unless we were deliberately trying to do so in the first place?

Why wouldn't you give them as much strike WEXP as possible in a normal playthrough?

There is a difference between "get them as much Strike as possible" and "they are duoing the map because my beorc units have no prospects at all".

It looks like it's up to my videos to show Rhys > Mist.

Your videos will show that Rhys > Mist for 0% growths, with your particular strategies. This tier list is based on normal growths, and the relative worth of multiple ways to do something. Also, your tactics for +X turn savings often result in double-digit failure percentages. I've said this to you before, but I'll say it again here: if we trivialize significant chances for strategy to FAIL, we are throwing much of the worth of a unit's durability out the window, because that's essentially what it comes down to for units that aren't 10HKO'ed.

Take 1-4 as the perfect example. If clearing it in 6 turns requires Sothe to hit an 80% find chance twice, doesn't that imply that absent a major contingency plan, that 6 turns fails nearly 36% of the time? How can we sweep something like that under the rug, and simultaneously take Zihark's durability failure on 3-6 seriously? Because, shit, with a B support and Resolve, his long-term survival rates start looking good by comparison.

So I'm skeptical that an example of one particular sequence of events is going to give us much to extrapolate from. Maybe there's something damning, but it'd have to be pretty clear cut.

[dondon151]

This isn't about who gets resources, it's about how important they are. No one is saying Rhys can't use Physic. They're saying Physic isn't that important. Unless extra physic range or healing is important, Rhys is worse than Mist because of the multitude of small things going for Mist.

Right. Well, in that case, then I will say once again: you can add 1 99 times and still not get 100.

[nflchamp]

Right. Well, in that case, then I will say once again: you can add 1 99 times and still not get 100.

And, once again, the counter point is that I can add 1 99 times and it'll always be greater than 75.

It depends on how important Physic is.

[Florete]

Well, why wouldn't you? More EXP? If you're not 3 turning 2-E, why do you need to use Physic when Elincia has Mend, 9 move, and flying?

Experience and resources. 2-E has a good amount of items to collect. Not to mention how much Nephenee would drop without the 2-E experience.

As for Elincia and healing: 9 move, but your team is split to the two sides of the map. If someone needs healing on both sides, or even on just one, even Leanne can't always get her up close to both with enough extra move to also keep her safe from enemies.

Let me point out that 16 mag is 8/0 on average. When you are a) not healing every turn and B) gain 12 EXP at best per staff use (since we don't use Physic unless absolutely necessary), Mist is likely to not even have gained 700 EXP. She needs 59 Mends. For reference, I took 40 total turns from 3-P to 3-7, inclusive. Mist (T) is a slightly different story.

Point taken. 7 Physic range then (8 for Mist(T), but w/e). It's worse, but it doesn't really change the argument.

I think you misunderstood. That statement was in response to people claiming that we couldn't afford to spend Physic uses willy-nilly in part 3. And we aren't, but that's beside the point - if you're concerned about uses for part 4, I was simply pointing out that you have at least 3 staves total, and very likely 4 because there's a very easily stealable one in 3-10.

Yeah, I think I accidentally read you as saying 3-E instead of 4-E. Whoops.

Anyway, most of the argument here is based on part 3, for which you only have 1 Physic until 3-10, where you might not even get another (iirc the Physic guy is actually behind the boss, and since Physic range in itself is apparently so important I fail to see how Heather is getting that safely). You can get whatever is left of the other 2 for part 4, but healing has only become less useful in general, and each team already has a designated healer to it: Micaiah, Mist (and possibly Soren), and Elincia. Micaiah and Elincia are obviously better for the job than Rhys, so if he goes with them he's fairly redundant unless you need Elincia to be fighting most of the time or you actually need two heals (possible with Micaiah, not as likely with Tibarn). Not to mention other possible healers: Soren, Calill, Laura, even Ilyana.

So when Mist raises Boyd's Killer Axe crit from 28 to 33 for a total of about 12 player phase attacks at maximum (unless we intend to use Boyd), is that a big deal? Notwithstanding the fact that Titania or Haar are better for the Killer Axe.

I never said it was a big deal, just that it was workable. I even said I don't use Bonds myself very much. Hell, Interceptor is making a bigger deal out of this than I am.

If you didn't notice, I had 10/15 uses going into 3-8. Those 5 uses, though few, were lifesavers and made strategies possible.

I didn't notice, actually. Was this in your 0% growths run? And how many could only be pulled off by Rhys and not Mist?

For me, it has never happened. Now, this doesn't mean that it won't happen ever, but the magnitude of such a circumstance is little compared to when you need to Physic.

Maybe in a 0% growths run. But I actually have run into this problem (I needed to Shove her twice, though), especially in 3-P and 3-1. The magnitude is actually just the same: it can be a lifesaver.

[Colonel M]

Experience and resources. 2-E has a good amount of items to collect. Not to mention how much Nephenee would drop without the 2-E experience.

Not exactly true. If we are collecting the necessary resources within those three turns (as in our stat boosters), then there's no real reason to drag it out. Nephenee would not drop like a rock either. There's still the Part 2 BEXP that can pad her a little bit if necessary.

Taking Shining Force II as an example (I know no one has really played the game), I am given two real options: I can either charge at the Kraken head on and kill him in 4-6 Turns, or I play the whole map out. If the only thing the whole map might really "save" me is a couple of resets (and at times, it's due to my mistakes; not because of the characters in general), why am I playing the map out?

Edited July 13, 2010 by Colonel M

[dondon151]

Why are you saying that we don't use the staff unless absolutely necessary, when there's ample evidence that we couldn't break the staff unless we were deliberately trying to do so in the first place?

This was in anticipation of arguments to let Mist use the staff for extra EXP.

There is a difference between "get them as much Strike as possible" and "they are duoing the map because my beorc units have no prospects at all".

If you want the CEXP from the center island, then Ulki and Janaff can ideally wipe out Micaiah's island with the exception of the BK.

Your videos will show that Rhys > Mist for 0% growths, with your particular strategies. This tier list is based on normal growths, and the relative worth of multiple ways to do something.

Strategies are still strategies, regardless of growths. If I need Ike and Haar to juggernaut in 3-4, however many levels of growths that they will obtain before then will not make them impervious to damage (especially that Wyrmslayer SM and the Elfire sages). If I need Oscar to pass through enemies on the LHS of 3-3, however many levels of growths will not allow him to survive 3 attacks with previous damage.

Also, your tactics for +X turn savings often result in double-digit failure percentages. I've said this to you before, but I'll say it again here: if we trivialize significant chances for strategy to FAIL, we are throwing much of the worth of a unit's durability out the window, because that's essentially what it comes down to for units that aren't 10HKO'ed.

If you've ever needed to connect an attack with 77 disp hit, you're also venturing into double digit fail percentage zone. I do not have savestates and infinite time; I can't afford to waste my time relying on strategies likely to fail on top of planning the strategies in the first place. A strategy is not usually a particular sequence of actions executed the same way on every attempt; if we go by that definition, then any strategy is liable to fail a considerable portion of the time unless every unit has 100 hit and faces 0 crit, on top of not relying on any skill % procs.